New Heavens and New Earth Now or Future?

[Txblessedcowboy]

All my life I have heard that you can come to this church or that church and freely eat from the Tree of Life and drink freely from the Water of Life. I have been studying Revelation and recently discovered that the Treeof Life is located in the New Jerusalem Rev 22:2. The Water of Life is also located in the New Jerusalem Rev 22:1. The New Jerusalem is located in the New Heavens and New Earth so does this mean that the New Heavens and New Earth are already present or can we not freely eat of the Tree of Life and drink from the Water of Life. Seems to me that it has to be one or the other.

[Hitch]

All my life I have heard that you can come to this church or that church and freely eat from the Tree of Life and drink freely from the Water of Life. I have been studying Revelation and recently discovered that the Treeof Life is located in the New Jerusalem Rev 22:2. The Water of Life is also located in the New Jerusalem Rev 22:1. The New Jerusalem is located in the New Heavens and New Earth so does this mean that the New Heavens and New Earth are already present or can we not freely eat of the Tree of Life and drink from the Water of Life. Seems to me that it has to be one or the other.22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,

Its this one.

Take care

H

[Txblessedcowboy]

22But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,

Its this one.

Take care

H
If I do not misunderstand what you are saying which I may be but it looks like you are saying that The Heavenly Jerusalem in Hebrews is different than the New Jerusalem which comes down from heaven in Revelation. In either case if it is not here in the present then we may not eat of the tree of life and the water of the river of life. I know everyone says that we can do this now but the bible says that it is in the Heavenly Jerusalem and everyone says that we are still waiting for it to arrive.

TX

[dizzle]

If I do not misunderstand what you are saying which I may be but it looks like you are saying that The Heavenly Jerusalem in Hebrews is different than the New Jerusalem which comes down from heaven in Revelation. In either case if it is not here in the present then we may not eat of the tree of life and the water of the river of life. I know everyone says that we can do this now but the bible says that it is in the Heavenly Jerusalem and everyone says that we are still waiting for it to arrive.

TX

You are proposing a false dichotomy and a strictly linear view which is not, I submit, Biblical.

The Bible says that death is both defeated and still waiting to be defeated. Well..... which is it? In that light, there is no Biblical problem with saying we are eating and drinking now and waiting for the perfection and consummation of that act. The New Heavens and New Earth have broken into this age and are both here now, and yet future.

[Hitch]

If I do not misunderstand what you are saying which I may be but it looks like you are saying that The Heavenly Jerusalem in Hebrews is different than the New Jerusalem which comes down from heaven in Revelation. In either case if it is not here in the present then we may not eat of the tree of life and the water of the river of life. I know everyone says that we can do this now but the bible says that it is in the Heavenly Jerusalem and everyone says that we are still waiting for it to arrive.

TXYou do misunderstand.

The coming of the Lord changed everthing ie heaven and earth. The anciently prophecied redemption has come. The Sacrfice has been made and accepted and Jesus Christ has been raised from the dead and ascended the throne. Gaing more tahn was lost in the Fall and setting the best possible situation for historical developement of the kingdom. Jesus enthroned in Heaven and the Holy Spirit ministering on earth.

Take care

H

[Txblessedcowboy]

You are proposing a false dichotomy and a strictly linear view which is not, I submit, Biblical.

The Bible says that death is both defeated and still waiting to be defeated. Well..... which is it? In that light, there is no Biblical problem with saying we are eating and drinking now and waiting for the perfection and consummation of that act. The New Heavens and New Earth have broken into this age and are both here now, and yet future.

Thanks for the reply. I had to take some time to study more on this subject before I just jump in again and make myself look silly which I will probably do anyway. Before I can ask anymore questions about the New Heavens and New Earth I have to see if we agree on what the Old Heaven and Old Earth is. From my studies thus far it seems to me that the Old Heavens and Old Earth is the Old Covenant Jewish temple worship with animal sacrifices which was destroyed by the Roman (and other) armies somewhere around 70 A.D.
If it is not the Old Jewish system of religion then I would like to know what it is.

I would absolutely agree with you that I would be proposing a false dichotomy, but as far as I can tell the book of Revelation was written pre 70 A.D. and there is a lot of prophecy fulfillment around that time period. It very well may be that I am seeing to much into this but I came from a Dispensational background (2 years ago) and trying to see the whole truth whatever it may be and where ever it leads. I also agree that the Bible is full of already but not yet scenarios but also these were written before the destruction of Jerusalem and I have to investigate just what was and what was not fulfilled in that event. If I am on the right track with the Old Heavens and Old Earth then I have questions about the new. If not, you guys are more than welcome to get me on the right track. Thanks and God Bless

TX

[Hitch]

Thanks for the reply. I had to take some time to study more on this subject before I just jump in again and make myself look silly which I will probably do anyway. Before I can ask anymore questions about the New Heavens and New Earth I have to see if we agree on what the Old Heaven and Old Earth is. From my studies thus far it seems to me that the Old Heavens and Old Earth is the Old Covenant Jewish temple worship with animal sacrifices which was destroyed by the Roman (and other) armies somewhere around 70 A.D.
If it is not the Old Jewish system of religion then I would like to know what it is.

I would absolutely agree with you that I would be proposing a false dichotomy, but as far as I can tell the book of Revelation was written pre 70 A.D. and there is a lot of prophecy fulfillment around that time period. It very well may be that I am seeing to much into this but I came from a Dispensational background (2 years ago) and trying to see the whole truth whatever it may be and where ever it leads. I also agree that the Bible is full of already but not yet scenarios but also these were written before the destruction of Jerusalem and I have to investigate just what was and what was not fulfilled in that event. If I am on the right track with the Old Heavens and Old Earth then I have questions about the new. If not, you guys are more than welcome to get me on the right track. Thanks and God Bless

TX Take heart ,many of us here are living proof that DF fever is not always fatal.


Take care

H

[National Intelligence Director Phoenix]

There was a city after World War 2 that had been under Nazi control and even after the war was over, they still were for about a year. I can't think of the name. Maybe someone else had. Victory had been granted. They just didn't know they were free yet.

The Kingdom of Heaven is like a mustard seed that is growing and will soon become a tall plant. That means that what we should be seeing is the Kingdom of God growing and expanding. It's here already, but it hasn't reached full fruition as it will in eternity.

[Ted]

This is part of the "already but not yet" tension in the Bible. Several examples could be cited. For example, we have eternal life (John 5:24) but it is still future (Titus 1:2). In essence, the ecclesiological (NT church) application speaks of title to the blessing, while its aschatological (end-time) aspect remains future. We can claim it as ours, but can't exercize the privilege until later.

Paul uses this same sort of illustration in Gal 4:1-2, so it is clear that we are not speaking out of school.

To a western mind, it seems contradictory, but to an ancient Hebrew, it was totally natural. We "have" the blessing, but can't use it fully. Later we will have full use.

Ted

[BurningBush--U]

All my life I have heard that you can come to this church or that church and freely eat from the Tree of Life and drink freely from the Water of Life. I have been studying Revelation and recently discovered that the Treeof Life is located in the New Jerusalem Rev 22:2. The Water of Life is also located in the New Jerusalem Rev 22:1. The New Jerusalem is located in the New Heavens and New Earth so does this mean that the New Heavens and New Earth are already present or can we not freely eat of the Tree of Life and drink from the Water of Life. Seems to me that it has to be one or the other.
it's here
just not fully

yes they are already present as they were then after the risen Christ

The Kingdom is Here and it is now, just not fully in manifestation.

[BurningBush--U]

old heaven and earth

Old system and Man's system

New are God's system

Old is the NWO
New is under Christ and his Fathers Laws

[Txblessedcowboy]

old heaven and earth

Old system and Man's system

New are God's system

Old is the NWO
New is under Christ and his Fathers Laws
Revelation 22:14-15 Blessed are those who wash their robes that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates of the city (New Jerusalem). Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

Will there ever be a time when there will be no evil people outside the gates of the city and if there is a time, where would it teach this in scripture.