Is it true that...

[OneFollowingHim]

...we must be silent or miss God's whisper? I came across this sign at a church and wondered if the message God wants someone to know goes undelivered because we weren't quiet.

I mean when I read the bible and see in there places where God speaks, I read something entirely different than what this church marquee says. When God delivers a message, He never whispers and hears what God says regardless of whether or not they were silent. They don't even need to be Christians for goodness' sake. Paul wasn't a Christian when he was confromted on the road to Damascus. And he definitely didn't need to be silent to hear God.

In no way do I mean to be sacriligious or blaphemous. I do want to know what the bible teaches about this though. Do Christians really think the message on this marquee is taught in the bible?

[BruceJW]

Believe me, God will find a way to get the message through to you ;-)

[OneFollowingHim]

Believe me, God will find a way to get the message through to you ;-)

I agree. But what do you think about the message this church is sending? Do we need to be silent to avoid missing God's "whisper" or do we go to the written word to see what He wrote?

What if we're not completely silent and miss the important part of His message?

Do you see the problem with this message? It's subjective and can be determined by our emotions. What happens when our emotions tell us to marry someone because we were quite and heard a whisper and he or she is not a believer? The "whisper" said, "Marry this person and you can have greater influence on converting him or her."

[Meh_Gerbil]

The concept is taken from 1 Kings 19

9There he came to a cave and lodged in it; and behold, the word of the Lord came to him, and He said to him, What are you doing here, Elijah?


10He replied, I have been very jealous for the Lord God of hosts; for the Israelites have forsaken Your covenant, thrown down Your altars, and killed Your prophets with the sword. And I, I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.

11And He said, Go out and stand on the mount before the Lord. And behold, the Lord passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains and broke in pieces the rocks before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake; 12And after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire; and after the fire [a sound of gentle stillness and] a still, small voice.

I think the New Testament equivalent would be the life of Jesus Christ. You'd think the Son of G_d coming to earth would be a huge thing that would result in the rise and fall of nations and so on - comparatively speaking, Jesus was a whisper that those tuned to it could hear but the din of activity drowned it out for others.

G_d constantly uses the frail, the unexpected, and the incapable. In a world where bigger is better, G_d is all about the weaker and showing how power can be incredible in something as seemingly weak as a whisper.

The whisper forces us to tune into what he is saying instead of getting caught up in the swirling clamor of our own activity.

[OneFollowingHim]

I think that's bad exegesis. No where in this passage does it say anything about being silent, i.e., not making any sound.

And what's that business about "a great and strong wind rent the mountains and broke in pieces the rocks before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake; 12And after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire..." in verse 11?

Things were rockin' and rollin' when the LORD showed up. I doubt that Elijah needed to be silent at that moment.

I think too many Christians are confused about the difference between discernment and hearing the voice of God. So many think God speaks directly to him or her when we have no evidence that He has. Discernment is very different from that and has nothing to do with being silent at the risk of missing the whisper. And the Holy Spirit's influence over our lives has little to do with our being silent.

Besides, the bible does not even teach that we should train ourselves to hear the whisper of God. Our emotions play too big of a part in how we make decisions to leave it up to subjective interpretation like "tuning in for a whisper from God". I'd rather rely on His written word.

The idea that we need to be quiet or miss the message is very different from the idea that God has a message that we need to understand. Often times, the message will cost us something emotionally. And relying on hearing a whisper may cause us to make a bad choice.

This pastor may very well be saying we need greater discernment. But that's not what the sign says. And the fact that you're defending it tells me you believe the idea that when we get silent and listen, we hear God speak to us. Through that silent activity, He gives us messages we otherwise would not get.

But back to this sign. When the words we use don't convey the message we are communicating, we need to use different words. But I suspect this pastor has the idea in mind that if we just sit still and clear our minds, we'll get a message from God. He thinks the same things you do about being silent or missing the message. I simply ask, "What does silence have to do with anything God wants us to know?"

I used to take part in guided imagery excercises (before I was a Christian) that took the participants on a journey in their mind. You could go where you wanted. That activity is very unbiblical. Opening our mind to any influence is extremely dangerous. As Forrest Gump likes to say, "It's like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get."

Can God give us revelation outside His written word? Certainly. But I would not want to rely on my being silent to get His message. My mind is full of all kinds of junk that can lead me in the wrong direction. I am so easily deceived.

[stabalizer]

I think that's bad exegesis. No where in this passage does it say anything about being silent, i.e., not making any sound.

And what's that business about "a great and strong wind rent the mountains and broke in pieces the rocks before the Lord, but the Lord was not in the wind; and after the wind an earthquake, but the Lord was not in the earthquake; 12And after the earthquake a fire, but the Lord was not in the fire..." in verse 11?

Things were rockin' and rollin' when the LORD showed up. I doubt that Elijah needed to be silent at that moment.

I think too many Christians are confused about the difference between discernment and hearing the voice of God. So many think God speaks directly to him or her when we have no evidence that He has. Discernment is very different from that and has nothing to do with being silent at the risk of missing the whisper. And the Holy Spirit's influence over our lives has little to do with our being silent.

Besides, the bible does not even teach that we should train ourselves to hear the whisper of God. Our emotions play too big of a part in how we make decisions to leave it up to subjective interpretation like "tuning in for a whisper from God". I'd rather rely on His written word.

The idea that we need to be quiet or miss the message is very different from the idea that God has a message that we need to understand. Often times, the message will cost us something emotionally. And relying on hearing a whisper may cause us to make a bad choice.

This pastor may very well be saying we need greater discernment. But that's not what the sign says. And the fact that you're defending it tells me you believe the idea that when we get silent and listen, we hear God speak to us. Through that silent activity, He gives us messages we otherwise would not get.

But back to this sign. When the words we use don't convey the message we are communicating, we need to use different words. But I suspect this pastor has the idea in mind that if we just sit still and clear our minds, we'll get a message from God. He thinks the same things you do about being silent or missing the message. I simply ask, "What does silence have to do with anything God wants us to know?"

I used to take part in guided imagery excercises (before I was a Christian) that took the participants on a journey in their mind. You could go where you wanted. That activity is very unbiblical. Opening our mind to any influence is extremely dangerous. As Forrest Gump likes to say, "It's like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get."

Can God give us revelation outside His written word? Certainly. But I would not want to rely on my being silent to get His message. My mind is full of all kinds of junk that can lead me in the wrong direction. I am so easily deceived.

Communication by definition requires an EXCHANGE of information.

When one person is speaking the other should be listening. Listening requires silence.

I"m thinking maybe the sign is about routine agenda in the church, like maybe the choir is too loud and long. Or the band?

Being silent is a very missed agenda in some churches, I think it's also a legitimate one. Similar to leaving your watch at home when one goes to church. Being slow to speak and eager to hear is biblical.

[OneFollowingHim]

The sign does not say anything about listening. I wish it did. Because listening has an altogether different meaning from silence. Listening includes paying attention. You gotta pay attention, not just be silent.

Silence definitely does not guanantee that someone is listening.

And anyways, God can certainly break through any level of noise and get our attention if He wants to, no? This sign means to say that by being silent, you'll hear God's whisper, otherwise you won't.

[Sparko]

Jesus went off by himself to pray all the time. I think we need peace and quiet to pay attention to God.

[OneFollowingHim]

So are you saying that each and every time we go off to pray alone and are silent, we should expect a message from God, i.e., something He's gonna whisper to us?

[BruceJW]

So are you saying that each and every time we go off to pray alone and are silent, we should expect a message from God, i.e., something He's gonna whisper to us?

I don't think so.

If you don't find time to talk to him, he will get the message through to you somehow. If however you desire to improve your relationship, just like in any relationship, it's good to spend quality time with him.

[OneFollowingHim]

I don't think so.

If you don't find time to talk to him, he will get the message through to you somehow. If however you desire to improve your relationship, just like in any relationship, it's good to spend quality time with him.

Yes. No dispute with what you say. But I'm specifically referring to the church sign in th OP. It claims to know something on the subject of being silent so we can hear God whisper. I'm wondering if it is correct or not...as it is shown?

[stabalizer]

The sign does not say anything about listening. I wish it did. Because listening has an altogether different meaning from silence. Listening includes paying attention. You gotta pay attention, not just be silent.

Silence definitely does not guanantee that someone is listening.

And anyways, God can certainly break through any level of noise and get our attention if He wants to, no? This sign means to say that by being silent, you'll hear God's whisper, otherwise you won't.

I have to agree with you here, but the other side of the coin is God isn't deaf.

I missed your pov here

I would think if God wants to whisper, He's able.

Man can make a doctrine or tradition out of just about any event.

[Sparko]

So are you saying that each and every time we go off to pray alone and are silent, we should expect a message from God, i.e., something He's gonna whisper to us?

did I say that?

When does God force himself upon you? Maybe if he has some special assignment like he did with Moses or Jonah or something. But mostly we are SEEKING God and wanting him to guide us. That takes prayer and peace and quiet. If you are too busy to seek and study, then don't expect God to shout at you to guide you. You should go off and find a quiet time each day to pray to God and study the bible, contemplating where you are in your life, where God wants you to be. Listening to the Holy Spirit. When people talk about being quiet and listening to God, they are saying to stop being so busy that you ignore spiritual matters for worldly ones. God talks to us through scripture and the Holy Spirit. If you don't have any time for God, don't expect too much input from God.

[OneFollowingHim]

did I say that?

When does God force himself upon you? Maybe if he has some special assignment like he did with Moses or Jonah or something. But mostly we are SEEKING God and wanting him to guide us. That takes prayer and peace and quiet. If you are too busy to seek and study, then don't expect God to shout at you to guide you. You should go off and find a quiet time each day to pray to God and study the bible, contemplating where you are in your life, where God wants you to be. Listening to the Holy Spirit. When people talk about being quiet and listening to God, they are saying to stop being so busy that you ignore spiritual matters for worldly ones. God talks to us through scripture and the Holy Spirit. If you don't have any time for God, don't expect too much input from God.

...and what do you think about the church sign in the OP?

[Sparko]

...and what do you think about the church sign in the OP?

I think that judging a Church's doctrine by its sign is akin to judging a book by its cover.

Unless you attended the sermon, you have no idea what they meant by that sign. It was a teaser. They could be complete wacko's who think that if you are quiet enough that you can actually hear God whispering to you, or they could just mean what I said above, to stop being so busy with the world and spend some quiet time studying the bible and contemplating spiritual matters and the direction your life is going.

[OneFollowingHim]

I understand your point and it's a good one. Let me ask you a question though.

Have you ever had someone say to you that they aren't led to pray for someone? I have. And I think the message on this sign sends a wrong message for people who feel it's perfectly okay to say they aren't led to pray for someone when the clear teaching from the bible is to even pray for those you don't feel like praying for. They never heard God tell them to pray for a person.

The flip side of the coin is that people are "hearing" God whisper things that are subjective in nature. Both of these are bad theology and anything (like this church marquee) that is open to misunderstanding or misinterpretation ought to be avoided.

[stabalizer]

I understand your point and it's a good one. Let me ask you a question though.

Have you ever had someone say to you that they aren't led to pray for someone? I have. And I think the message on this sign sends a wrong message for people who feel it's perfectly okay to say they aren't led to pray for someone when the clear teaching from the bible is to even pray for those you don't feel like praying for. They never heard God tell them to pray for a person.

The flip side of the coin is that people are "hearing" God whisper things that are subjective in nature. Both of these are bad theology and anything (like this church marquee) that is open to misunderstanding or misinterpretation ought to be avoided.

I don't disagree, I usually take what others think or say with a grain of salt. if it sparks my intellect or perks me up I look into it privately first.

first looking to see if it agrees with scripture, second gleaning to set aside what i'm not sure of for later study, thirdly rejecting obvious distortion or misinterpretation and/ or false doctrine.

Prayer for guidance and understanding.

If this sign bothers you, or continues to bother you, go chat with the pastor and resolve the issue.

Christaians are not perfect, they are forgiven.

I have faith you'll do what's right.

[OneFollowingHim]

Chatting with the pastor is a great idea. I'm going to see if I can get an appointment.

The greater issue for me though (and the reason I posted here) is getting Christians to think about things like this church marquee and what it means, both to the average person on the street and, more importantly, to the believer.

(Sparko is a more mature Christian and can discern the error in this church marquee. But I'm concerned about the person on the street and less mature Christians when they see messages like this. It's a very bad teaser because it is often misunderstood. And I shall know more what this pastor has in mind after talking with him.)

Greg Koukl with Stand to Reason (http://www.str.org/site/PageServer?pagename=homepage) has says it very well in the following:

The commentary is titled "Acts and the Voice of God".

"...God sometimes does give specialized instructions, so I'm not saying that God can't do that and I'm not putting God in a box. He does sometimes give specialized instructions. He did in Biblical times and He does in the present. But when we read in the Bible especially in the New Testament, which is what our discussion is about today when He has done it, such specialized instructions are clear first of all. (When God gives His messages...) They are not mumbled. They are not whispered. They are not nudged. And they are, almost without exception in the New Testament, a sovereign intrusion by God into the circumstances rather than something that is first sought by a Christian."
<emphasis added>

Source (http://str.convio.net/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5090).

[Sparko]

Well, one thing that always irked me as I got more mature as a Christian was all the talk people use like "God told me this" and "God said this to me" when in fact what they mean was "My conscience, prayer and bible study have led me to believe that God wants me to do this"

As a new Christian I was contantly wondering why God never talked to me like he did them. It made me question if I was really a Christian.

So I do agree that Christians need to be careful with their "jargon"

[stabalizer]

Chatting with the pastor is a great idea. I'm going to see if I can get an appointment.

The greater issue for me though (and the reason I posted here) is getting Christians to think about things like this church marquee and what it means, both to the average person on the street and, more importantly, to the believer.

(Sparko is a more mature Christian and can discern the error in this church marquee. But I'm concerned about the person on the street and less mature Christians when they see messages like this. It's a very bad teaser because it is often misunderstood. And I shall know more what this pastor has in mind after talking with him.)

Greg Koukl with Stand to Reason (http://www.str.org/site/PageServer?pagename=homepage) has says it very well in the following:

The commentary is titled "Acts and the Voice of God".

"...God sometimes does give specialized instructions, so I'm not saying that God can't do that and I'm not putting God in a box. He does sometimes give specialized instructions. He did in Biblical times and He does in the present. But when we read in the Bible especially in the New Testament, which is what our discussion is about today when He has done it, such specialized instructions are clear first of all. (When God gives His messages...) They are not mumbled. They are not whispered. They are not nudged. And they are, almost without exception in the New Testament, a sovereign intrusion by God into the circumstances rather than something that is first sought by a Christian."
<emphasis added>

Source (http://str.convio.net/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5090).


Well I agree with you

Here's my hardest part of dealing with a church; To this day most churches I've investigated are somwhat defensive and controling.

I call it the Tarzan syndrome; Chest pounding, a little hollerin, and a great big: "As long as you agree with all we do, you can come here"

Never mind looking for an operation of the gifts, but tithe and then prove yourself for xxxx number of years, then and only then will we hear what you've learned from God.

I go to church to pray for people's needs.

As far as experiencing acts of God;

In 1984 I was physically translated over 23 miles and God then spoke audibly.
Believe me, when He speaks you will know. It was a beautiful yet terrifying event.

I guess I don't discern what you're worryied over because I think we all have to learn the hard way more often than not.

God in His mercy works through all the mess.

[OneFollowingHim]

I guess I'm only bringing into the light a problem that a lot of Christians have about their relationship with God. Too often when these kinds of thing are brought up, the person is treated as being rude or intolerant. But when done properly (i.e., with right judgment), we need to judge these things.

24 Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment."