Legalizing Undocumented Immigrants. To What Purpose?

[Minnesota]

WASHINGTON With Republicans deeply divided, the Senate Judiciary Committee voted to legalize the nation's 11 million undocumented immigrants and to grant them citizenship, provided that they hold jobs, pass criminal background checks, learn English and pay fines and back taxes

source (http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/03/28/news/immig.php)

Right now we are able to buy USA grown produce and other items at reasonable prices because those employed to do the grunt labor involved are willing to work very cheaply. Often illegal immigrants, I believe we tolerate their presence only because they DO work cheaply. If they could insist on and receive a "decent" living wage, which would raise consumer prices radically, would we be so tolerant? Would YOU be willing to pay twice or three times as much for many of our staples if it meant giving these people a "decent" wage? Or, would you be willing to "ship them back to where they came from" if it meant an opportunity to give many of our unemployed citizens a job at a decent wage with benefits, AND, of course, the same resultant hike in prices?

[Ryokan]

WASHINGTON With Republicans deeply divided, the Senate Judiciary Committee voted to legalize the nation's 11 million undocumented immigrants and to grant them citizenship, provided that they hold jobs, pass criminal background checks, learn English and pay fines and back taxes

source (http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/03/28/news/immig.php)

Right now we are able to buy USA grown produce and other items at reasonable prices because those employed to do the grunt labor involved are willing to work very cheaply. Often illegal immigrants, I believe we tolerate their presence only because they DO work cheaply. If they could insist on and receive a "decent" living wage, which would raise consumer prices radically, would we be so tolerant? Would YOU be willing to pay twice or three times as much for many of our staples if it meant giving these people a "decent" wage? Or, would you be willing to "ship them back to where they came from" if it meant an opportunity to give many of our unemployed citizens a job at a decent wage with benefits, AND, of course, the same resultant hike in prices?
A decent wage means around $5.00ish in this context. it wouldn't dramatically effect privces. Aside from which, its not their working for cheap but their presence period that drives down prices, because it increases the supply of labor. And, at the end of the day, whether you boot them out or keep them, its only a 200 or so dollars yearly in our out of peoples pockets on average, so don't be apocalyptic.

[Minnesota]

A decent wage means around $5.00ish in this context. it wouldn't dramatically effect privces.
The context is not China or Peru, but the United States of America. And, if you think $5.15 p/h is a decent wage I can only believe you don't live in the US. In 2005 the median income in the USA is listed as $23.29 p/h. ($48,440).




Aside from which, its not their working for cheap but their presence period that drives down prices, because it increases the supply of labor. And, at the end of the day, whether you boot them out or keep them, its only a 200 or so dollars yearly in our out of peoples pockets on average, so don't be apocalyptic.
:no:

I see you list yourself as an "Econ/International affairs major," to which I can only say, I hope you actually DO learn something, Ryokan.

[Teallaura]

At peak season workers can earn $12 p/h - more'n I made on my first professional job. Legal or illegal, it's still a min wage job on average. That said, I read recently that the presense of illegal aliens drives down wages for American workers by 8%.*

And ya know, there are other ways to reduce costs - say a little less bug spray? (Price the stuff - it's expensive!)




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*Yeah, I can find it, but it would be a pain - I read the thing in the paper.

[Ryokan]

At peak season workers can earn $12 p/h - more'n I made on my first professional job. Legal or illegal, it's still a min wage job on average. That said, I read recently that the presense of illegal aliens drives down wages for American workers by 8%.* Its lower income workers it lowers by 8%. I saw the same figure probably, but go figure where. In a real sense, middle and upper class wage inners see a increase.

[Ryokan]

The context is not China or Peru, but the United States of America. And, if you think $5.15 p/h is a decent wage I can only believe you don't live in the US. In 2005 the median income in the USA is listed as $23.29 p/h. ($48,440).




:no:

I see you list yourself as an "Econ/International affairs major," to which I can only say, I hope you actually DO learn something, Ryokan.
I made a long post explaining myself for you, but my son erased. (Its a baby thing) Since I got annoyed at you the first time, and am lazy I am gonna end my participation in the thread instead. Feel free to declare victory and call me an idiot if you want. Just so long as I am not your new Jinx.

[Teallaura]

You can't be Jinx... you aren't nearly brash enough...

And don't feel bad - he does that to everyone, not just Jinx.

[M Paul]

WASHINGTON With Republicans deeply divided, the Senate Judiciary Committee voted to legalize the nation's 11 million undocumented immigrants and to grant them citizenship, provided that they hold jobs, pass criminal background checks, learn English and pay fines and back taxes

source (http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/03/28/news/immig.php)

Right now we are able to buy USA grown produce and other items at reasonable prices because those employed to do the grunt labor involved are willing to work very cheaply. Often illegal immigrants, I believe we tolerate their presence only because they DO work cheaply. If they could insist on and receive a "decent" living wage, which would raise consumer prices radically, would we be so tolerant? Would YOU be willing to pay twice or three times as much for many of our staples if it meant giving these people a "decent" wage? Or, would you be willing to "ship them back to where they came from" if it meant an opportunity to give many of our unemployed citizens a job at a decent wage with benefits, AND, of course, the same resultant hike in prices?
It seems to me that with the war on terror and concern about how terrorists enter the country, some politicians felt they had the perfect opportunity to squeek by some prejudice against hispanics. It back-fired.

No one talks about the issue of sheer compassion for these people, who if kept out would live in squalid poverty. And, the effects of stealing half of Mexico, which was immoral, in favoring our economy and detrimenting its is never considered, except for the war not being about preserving slavery anymore, but they started it.

Some people just don't like Spanish or so much Catholicism. Yet, the immigrants may be the key to preserving traditional values in America, and I still believe Jesus controls the outcome in a free and fair debate. But some people have trouble with the concept of fair debate to begin with.

Oh well,
M Paul

[Minnesota]

Yet, the immigrants may be the key to preserving traditional values in America,
"Traditional values in America," that one always gets me. As if all of America had adopted one set of values that has made the country what it is. :no:




and I still believe Jesus controls the outcome in a free and fair debate.
And he does this how? You're getting a bit scary here, M Paul.

[Durthorin]

Legalizing illegal Immigrants.. I guess I'm funny but it always seems to me a great deal like if you hand your wallet to the robber fast enough.. its not a crime.. its charity.

[M Paul]

mmm can't get software to work