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Bartholomew
February 9th 2003, 10:33 PM
In all seriousness, if man is predestined, why would it be necessary to preach the Gospel to anyone, since God has chosen His elect anyway? :thinking:

I would appreciate any Calvinist's response to this.

Thanks,
~Matt

TheFiveSolas
February 9th 2003, 10:39 PM
Matt,
There are a couple of reasons I can give.
1) God commands it.
2) God ordains the ends AND the means to the end. In the case of salvation, God has ordained that faith "come by hearing and hearing by the Word of God". Therefore, it is a requirement that we evangelize in order for people to be saved.

God's sovereignty in salvation does not rule out evangelization. In fact, it takes the burden off of us ONLY with reference to conversion (as in a change of the sinner's heart attitude from one of rebellion against God to one of desire for God). In other words, we are commanded to evangelize, but it is God's job to convert the sinner.

Hope that helped

Bartholomew
February 9th 2003, 10:44 PM
I don't know if I'm allowed to ask more questions or what-not, but that's great for now. :)

Thanks,
~Matt

Captain Ochre
February 9th 2003, 10:50 PM
Just thought that I'd tack on the observation that Calvinistic denominations have not just been *involved* in evangelism and missionary work, but are the leaders in such activities.
Fwiw.
The other Phillip Johnson has links concerning this.

Bartholomew
February 9th 2003, 10:53 PM
Thanks for your opinion.

~Matt

yxboom
February 10th 2003, 11:04 AM
Inquisitor as this is your thread you may ask as many questions as you wish and dictate the route this thread does go. If you ask a question that leads to more than feel free to ask more. This is strictly Q&A with the author as the lead of the thread.

Solly
February 10th 2003, 11:13 AM
*Re-edited, since I have just seen it's Q&A in this forum*

Speaking as a Calvinist, Paul was told to remain in Corinth, because God had many people in the city.

Acts 18.9-11 Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace; for I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee; for I have much people in this city.

But they weren't converted yet. You'll notice that this is said soon after Paul is turfed out of the synagogue. This is our certainty:

Firstly, God commands us to hold not our peace.

Secondly, that he orders all things, and if he says so, no man shall set on us to hurt us.

Thirdly, the fields are ripe unto harvest, he has much people, and they will hear.

This is the basis upon which missionaries have gone out: Carey, Paton, McCheyne. As well as ministers: the men who went to almost certain death in France from Switzerland, during Calvin's time.
This is also the basis of all preaching; we do not convert anyone, God does, but he uses means in his providence and mercy. But we are earthen vessels, containing a treasure that we handle with care, that all the glory goes to him.

Bartholomew
February 11th 2003, 02:49 PM
yxboom:
Inquisitor as this is your thread you may ask as many questions as you wish and dictate the route this thread does go. If you ask a question that leads to more than feel free to ask more. This is strictly Q&A with the author as the lead of the thread.

Ah, ok. I thought that was the description of this particular forum...but I wasn't 100% sure.

Thanks for the clairification!

Bartholomew
February 11th 2003, 02:50 PM
Solly:
*Re-edited, since I have just seen it's Q&A in this forum*

Speaking as a Calvinist, Paul was told to remain in Corinth, because God had many people in the city.

Acts 18.9-11 Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace; for I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee; for I have much people in this city.

But they weren't converted yet. You'll notice that this is said soon after Paul is turfed out of the synagogue. This is our certainty:

Firstly, God commands us to hold not our peace.

Secondly, that he orders all things, and if he says so, no man shall set on us to hurt us.

Thirdly, the fields are ripe unto harvest, he has much people, and they will hear.

This is the basis upon which missionaries have gone out: Carey, Paton, McCheyne. As well as ministers: the men who went to almost certain death in France from Switzerland, during Calvin's time.
This is also the basis of all preaching; we do not convert anyone, God does, but he uses means in his providence and mercy. But we are earthen vessels, containing a treasure that we handle with care, that all the glory goes to him.

Hey Solly,

Thanks for your thoughts. I'll let you know if I have any more questions.

~Matt

Hitch
February 16th 2003, 02:58 PM
InquisitorKind:
In all seriousness, if man is predestined, why would it be necessary to preach the Gospel to anyone, since God has chosen His elect anyway? :thinking:

I would appreciate any Calvinist's response to this.

Thanks,
~Matt A favored fish out here is the summer stealhead. They are mangnificent creatures occasionally growing to over 20 pounds. Yet light tackle and fine skillls are required for consistent success.

A good way to tell a beginner from the experienced is to watch how each one apporaches an area thought to hold fish. The beginner walks up tosses in a line and hopes for the best. The more experienced will search the water from as far away as possible. He wont bother if no fish can be seen. Whne fisah are located he will try to stay out os sight and make his fly appear as natural as possible. Through years of effort he has a pretty good idea of when, depending on variables, to 'beat the water' through persistence , and when to retreat and make another presentation later. Because the fish are present he makes his best effort, never knowing ahead of time which will take the fly, and which wont. That is the Lord's doing.

H