PDA

View Full Version : This is the Real Gospel


Robyn Banks
July 22nd 2003, 05:30 AM
The New Testament presentation of God is overwhelmingly a presentation of the divine plan of salvation (the life/ death/ resurrection & second-coming of Christ).
- The story concerns God unfurling his mysterious plan [1 Cor 2:1, 7-11; Eph 1:9-10; 3:3-5, 9-11, Col 1:26-27; 2:2],
- which is his plan from the beginning that, through Christ, all may be reconciled to God. [2 Cor 5:18-19]

Christ is presented as the exact nature of God, [John 10:30 (“The Father and I are one.”)]
- and his perfect life presented in the gospels.

Creation is said to be made through Jesus, [Heb 1:3 (“He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact imprint of God's very being”), Col 1:15-17 (“The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. He is before all things, and in him all things hold together”), 19 (“For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell”); 2:9-10 (“For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.”)]
- And Christ has made God known [John 1:18 (“No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father's heart, who has made him known.”); 8:19 (“Then they said to him, "Where is your Father?" Jesus answered, "You know neither me nor my Father. If you knew me, you would know my Father also."”); 10:14 (“I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father”); 14:6-11 (“Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you know me, you will know my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him." Philip said to him, "Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own; but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me"”); 15:15 (“I have made known to you everything that I have heard from my Father.”)]
- by Jesus being sent from heaven. [John 6:38ff (“for I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me.”), 62 (“Then what if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?”); 12:44 (“Then Jesus cried aloud: "Whoever believes in me believes not in me but in him who sent me. And whoever sees me sees him who sent me.”); 13:3 (“Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he had come from God and was going to God...”); 17:28 (“I came from the Father and have come into the world; again, I am leaving the world and am going to the Father.”)]

Through Christ’s humility and poverty, Christ became exalted [2 Cor 13:4 (“Christ was crucified in weakness, but lives by the power of God.”); Phil 2:6-11 (“Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited, but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness. And being found in human form, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death - even death on a cross. Therefore God also highly exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bend, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”), John 3:13-15 (“No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.”)]
- and believers become rich in receiving the blessings he received. [2 Cor 8:9 (“You know the generous act of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that by his poverty you might become rich.”)]

He became the substitutionary sacrifice for sins, [Eph 2:4-5 (“But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions - it is by grace you have been saved.”)]
- once for all, [Heb 9:24-28 (“For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.”)]
- for those who come to God by believing in him. [Heb 7:24-28 (“Because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. Such a high priest meets our need--one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.”)]

As Christ belongs to God, believers belong to Christ, and become inheritors of the eternal life which Christ owned first. [1 Cor 3:22-23 (“All belong to you, and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God.”), Acts 26:22-23 (“To this day I have had help from God, and so I stand here, testifying to both small and great, saying nothing but what the prophets and Moses said would take place: that the Messiah must suffer, and that, by being the first to rise from the dead, he would proclaim light both to our people and to the Gentiles.”); 1 John 2:23-24 (“No one who denies the Son has the Father; everyone who confesses the Son has the Father also. Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you will abide in the Son and in the Father.”), 5:9&11 (“For this is the testimony of God that he has testified to his Son: ... God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.”)]

God raised Christ from the dead, so that all may be made alive in Christ. [1 Cor 15:22 (“God raised Christ from the dead, so that all may be made alive in Christ”), Col 1:18 (“The Son is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.”)]
- Believers were washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the spirit of God. [1 Cor 6:11; Matt 20:18-20 (“And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded”)]
- For our sake God made him to be sin who knew no sin, [Gal 3:13-14, Eph 1:7-8]
- so that in him believers might become the righteousness of God. [2 Cor 5:21]

Christ has now been exalted to the place of God, [Heb 1:3 (“After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.”), 8:1-2 (“We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by man.”), 10:12 (“But when this priest [Jesus Christ] had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.”), 12:2 (“Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.”); Eph 1:19-23 (“... The working of God's mighty strength, which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”), Eph 2:6-7 (“And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.”); Col 3:1-4 (“Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.”); Acts 7:55-56 (“But filled with the Holy Spirit, Stephen gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God and Jesus standing at the right hand of God. "Look," he said, "I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!"”)]
- and been given the name of God, to the glory of God. [“God also highly exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bend, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” (Phil 2:9-11)]

In the same way that there is one God from whom believers receive existence, there is one Lord Jesus through whom believers receive existence. [1 Cor 8:4-6 (“...for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.”)]
- In the same way that Jesus died and rose again, God will also resurrect dead believers with Jesus. [1 Thess 4:14 (“As Jesus died and rose, God will also resurrect dead believers with Jesus”), 2 Cor 4:14 (“We know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus, and will bring us with you into his presence.”), 5:5 (“God has given us the Spirit as a guarantee of eternity with him”)]

In the NT, God’s holy spirit is poured out on all people. [Acts 2:16 (“Peter explained: "No, this is what was spoken through the prophet Joel: 'In the last days it will be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh”), 1 Cor 3:16 (“You are God's temple and God's Spirit dwells in you.”), John 3:3,5-8]
- God called us to live a holy life, which the blood of Christ allows us to do, [Heb 9:14 (“How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!”)]
- and God gives his holy spirit to enable it. [1 Thess 4:7-8 (“God did not call us to impurity but in holiness. Therefore whoever rejects this rejects not human authority but God, who also gives his Holy Spirit to you.”); John 4:23-25 (“"But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such as these to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."”)]

Indwelt by his spirit, [1 Cor 6:15 & 19 (“Your bodies are members of Christ, so should not be used for immoral purposes. Your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God.”)]
- believers should therefore produce righteousness through Jesus Christ for the glory of God, [Phil 1:11(“...having produced the harvest of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ for the glory and praise of God.”); Gal 5:24 (“Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.”)]
- and be filled with spiritual understanding of the will of God. [Col 1:9 ; John 16:13-15]

God continues at work in believers for them to follow his purposes, [Phil 2:13 (“for it is God who is at work in you, enabling you both to will and to work for his good pleasure.”), 1 Thess 2:13 (“...God's word, which is also at work in you believers.”), 3:12-13 (“And may the Lord make you increase and abound in love for one another and for all, just as we abound in love for you. 13 And may he so strengthen your hearts in holiness that you may be blameless before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints.”)]
- and transforms them. [2 Cor 3:17-18 (“Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
18 And all of us, with unveiled faces, seeing the glory of the Lord as though reflected in a mirror, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord, the Spirit.”)]
- Believers should become one spirit with God, [1 Cor 6:17 (“anyone united to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.”)]
- children of God, [2 Cor 6:16 & 18 (“we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will live in them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people... and I will be your father, and you shall be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty."”)]
- able to call God “Father” as Jesus did, [Matt 12:50 (“Whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother”), Eph 2:18 (“Through Christ Jesus we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.”)]
- and therefore to call Jesus “brother”. [Heb 2:9-11 (“But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering. Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.”)]

God keeps believers blameless until the second coming, so they may be saved. [1 Thess 5:23 (“May the God of peace himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.”), 1 Cor 1:7-8 (“so that you are not lacking in any spiritual gift as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ. He will also strengthen you to the end, so that you may be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.”)]

Believers now eagerly await the second coming of our saviour from heaven, the Lord Jesus Christ, in glory. [Phil 3:14 (“I press on toward the goal for the prize of the heavenly call of God in Christ Jesus.”), 1 Thess 2:19 (“For what is our hope or joy or crown of boasting before our Lord Jesus at his coming? Is it not you?”); Acts 3:19-21 (“Repent therefore, and turn to God so that your sins may be wiped out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Messiah appointed for you, that is, Jesus, who must remain in heaven until the time of universal restoration that God announced long ago through his holy prophets.”)]
- They will be in the presence of their God & Father when the Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones. [1 Thess 3:13 (“And may he so strengthen your hearts in holiness that you may be blameless before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all his saints.”), 4:16-17 (“For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel's call and with the sound of God's trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever.”); Luke 21:27 (“At the end of the age: Then they will see 'the Son of Man coming in a cloud' with power and great glory.”)]
- “We who know Christ are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved.” [2 Cor 2:15 , Acts 24:14 (“according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our ancestors, believing everything laid down according to the law or written in the prophets. I have a hope in God--a hope that they themselves also accept--that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.”)]

Jesus Christ has been given all things [John 3:34-36 (“He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. The Father loves the Son and has placed all things in his hands. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure God's wrath.”)]
- including being assigned the divine judgement, [1 Cor 15:27-28 (“For "God has put all things in subjection under his feet." But when it says, "All things are put in subjection," it is plain that this does not include the one who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to the one who put all things in subjection under him, so that God may be all in all.”), 2 Cor 5:10 (“All of us must appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each may receive recompense for what has been done in the body, whether good or evil.”), Matt 11:25-27 (“I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and the intelligent and have revealed them to infants; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. All things have been handed over to me by my Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”), 13:41-43(“The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will collect out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and they will throw them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.”), 16:27-28 (“For the Son of Man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay everyone for what has been done. Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”); Luke 10:21-22 (“At that same hour Jesus rejoiced in the Holy Spirit and said, "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and the intelligent and have revealed them to infants; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. All things have been handed over to me by my Father; and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, or who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."”); John 5:21-27 (“Indeed, just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whomever he wishes. The Father judges no one but has given all judgment to the Son, so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Anyone who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. Very truly, I tell you, anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and does not come under judgment, but has passed from death to life. Very truly, I tell you, the hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself; and he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man.”); 6:38-40 (“Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and anyone who comes to me I will never drive away; for I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. This is indeed the will of my Father, that all who see the Son and believe in him may have eternal life; and I will raise them up on the last day."”); 8:16 (“For it is not I alone who judge, but I and the Father who sent me.”)]
- as have believers. [1 Cor 6:2 (“Do you not know that the saints will judge the world?”), Matt 19:28 (“Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man is seated on the throne of his glory, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”)]

Believers [Matt 10:32-33 (“Everyone therefore who acknowledges me before others I also will acknowledge before my Father in heaven; but whoever denies me before others, I also will deny before my Father in heaven.”)]
- with pure hearts from God [1 Cor 4:4-5 (“It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive commendation from God.”)]
- will be saved from the divine wrath. [1 Thess 1:10 (“wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead--Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath that is coming.”), 5:9 (“For God has destined us not for wrath but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,”), Matt 24:30-31 (“Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see 'the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven' with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”); Rom 2:5 (“the day of wrath, when God's righteous judgment will be revealed.”)]
- However the wicked will be punished. [Heb 10:27 (“a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.”), 13:4 (“God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.”); Col 3:6 (“Because of [immorality], the wrath of God is coming.”)]

The Day of the Lord of OT passages has become the “day of Jesus Christ”. [Phil 1:6&10]
- “Resurrection came with Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, after he has destroyed every ruler and every authority and power.” [1 Cor 15:23-24]
- Together with Christ, believers may live in heaven in the glory of God. [Matt 26:29 (“I tell you, I will never again drink of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.”)]

Robyn Banks
July 22nd 2003, 05:35 AM
A summary:
“God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power; he went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him. We are witnesses to all that he did both in Judea and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree; but God raised him on the third day and allowed him to appear, not to all the people but to us who were chosen by God as witnesses, and who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one ordained by God as judge of the living and the dead. All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.” [Acts 10:38-43]

Act9_12Out
July 22nd 2003, 06:00 AM
Robyn,

Did Noah trust in Christ as his Savior?

--Jeremy

Robyn Banks
July 22nd 2003, 06:14 AM
Act9_12Out:
Did Noah trust in Christ as his Savior?

Hi Jeremy

No. I hope you're going somewhere with this... :hrm:

Robyn Banks

Act9_12Out
July 22nd 2003, 07:27 AM
Robyn,

The title of your thread begs the question. If what you have presented is "The Real Gospel," then I would ask, "When did 'The Real Gospel' start? If Noah did not believe "the real" good news, then when did it start?

--Jeremy

dizzle
July 22nd 2003, 09:08 AM
Well I find it odd that Robyn is posting this since he doesn't believe in the literal resurrection of Christ at all or in the actual truthfulness of much of the New Testament (and of course denies the deity of Christ). I would like to know if what he is promoting is a totally redefined gospel using the same words but different meanings for if so I will move this thread elsewhere, but if Robyn is intending the mainstream evangelical meanings then I read with interest and pardon my intrusion.

/ot Robyn would be disappointed if I didn't jump in with my usual vaccous comment right?

Robyn Banks
July 22nd 2003, 04:47 PM
Act9_12Out:
The title of your thread begs the question. If what you have presented is "The Real Gospel," then I would ask, "When did 'The Real Gospel' start? If Noah did not believe "the real" good news, then when did it start?
Oh - why didn't you ask that in the first place.

The Real Gospel was revealed in Jesus Christ's resurrection in cAD30.

Robyn Banks

Robyn Banks
July 22nd 2003, 04:55 PM
Dee Dee Warren:
I would like to know if what he is promoting is a totally redefined gospel using the same words but different meanings
No. I am examining the intended meaning of the New Testament authors, as a whole.



Dee Dee Warren:
if Robyn is intending the mainstream evangelical meanings then I read with interest and pardon my intrusion.
Well, I am summarizing what the New Testament has to say about what "the Gospel" is. I understand that to coincide in the main with "mainstream evangelical meanings."



Dee Dee Warren:
Robyn would be disappointed if I didn't jump in with my usual vaccous comment right?
I haven't yet given up hope of seeing some depth of comment from you at some stage, Dee Dee.

I live in hope :smile:

Act9_12Out
July 23rd 2003, 05:21 AM
Robyn,

The Real Gospel was revealed in Jesus Christ's resurrection in cAD30.

So what was the gospel before this time? Did the gospel change? Has it changed since the resurrection?

--Jeremy

Robyn Banks
July 23rd 2003, 06:21 AM
Act9_12Out:
So what was the gospel before this time?
According to the New Testament what was the gospel before this time? The gospel was always the same. It was just revealed at this time.

Take Paul's explanation in Romans 1-4 as a representative example.

By the time he begins chapter 4 of his letter to the Romans, Paul has outlined his grand narrative of the righteousness of God, unveiled in Jesus Christ, which has now been made available to all - both Jew and Gentile (esp. 1.1-5; 14-17; 3.21-22). Paul has also announced that the universality of sin and wrath in 1.18-3.18 has been dealt with by the universal availability of righteousness in Jesus Christ (3.21-31).

In chapter 4, Paul makes Abraham the prime example of God’s gracious promise to the whole of humanity, to the exclusion of works of the law, and prior to his faithfulness to the covenant. In so doing, Paul is claiming that the righteousness which Romans 3 announced as apart from law was already God’s way of dealing with Abraham

By presenting Abraham as universal progenitor, Paul emphasises that God's original purpose was to create a worldwide family. Neil Elliot writes that “The theme of Romans 4 is God’s unswerving perseverance in fulfilling the divine will, especially with regard to the promise made to Abraham that he should become the father of magnificent posterity.” (The Rhetoric of Romans – Argumentative Constraint and Strategy and Paul’s Dialogue with Judaism (Sheffield: JSOT, 1990), p163). To this end, Paul rejects that God’s plan in Abraham ever depended on the additional threefold Jewish particularities of ‘works of the law’ (4.4-8), circumcision (4.9-12), and Torah (4.13-15). And so Paul affirms that God had an eternal plan that righteousness should be made available to all, as realised through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and appropriated by the means of faith.

According to the NT, the Gospel was as promised to Abraham, and as made known in Jesus.



Act9_12Out:
Did the gospel change?
No.



Act9_12Out:
Has it changed since the resurrection?
I am only examining the canonical intepretation of the Gospel. I am sure that the Gospel has changed in every community since the resurrection.

Hope that helps.

Robyn Banks

dizzle
July 23rd 2003, 09:52 PM
Where's the popcorn??

/ot my second vaccous comment of the thread.

Robyn Banks
July 24th 2003, 01:32 AM
Dee Dee Warren:
Where's the popcorn??
Am I entertaining you? :clown: Cool.

Dee Dee Warren:
/ot my second vaccous comment of the thread.
I never said anything against your nice vacuous comments.

:cheers:

Robyn Banks

Amazing Rando
April 29th 2004, 12:29 PM
Wow, now this is a weird thread- Robyn Banks clearly understanding the gospel of Christ, yet it's also clear he doesn't buy it. So what does that say?

trueseeker
April 29th 2004, 02:01 PM
Okay RB I'll bite.

It isn't exactly how I would explain the gospel, but it is a better and a more through explanation than many I have heard from Christians. So yes you have identified many/most of the important points that paint the picture of the gospel. Good job.

No one else seems to want to get too close, like it is a baited trap. If so, what have I stepped into?

Amazing Rando
April 29th 2004, 02:07 PM
You've stepped into a 9 month old thread that I dug up! :wink:

trueseeker
April 29th 2004, 02:25 PM
You've stepped into a 9 month old thread that I dug up! :wink:

Well now you tell me :doh: What do I do now :shrug:
Call for :help: Or is it too late for help :egad:

Robyn Banks
April 29th 2004, 07:56 PM
Wow, now this is a weird thread- Robyn Banks clearly understanding the gospel of Christ, yet it's also clear he doesn't buy it. So what does that say?

Hi, Amazing Rando.

I'm not allowed to post in this forum anymore for some reason, but I don't know about replying to a very old post when I was allowed here. So if any moderators are feeling particularly literalistic, I guess this reply will disappear.

I wanted to ask you, Amazing Rando, in response to your question: what does this say to you?

I note for your background, that I made this summary from reading through the New Testament. I was attempting to do a God-centred reading of the New Testament, with reference particularly to His action as described therein. The fact that the action is so centred on what may be termed 'The Gospel' is striking, and is merely the title I give to my summary of the New Testament's presentation of God.

Hope that helps.

Robyn Banks

Robyn Banks
April 29th 2004, 07:59 PM
Okay RB I'll bite.

It isn't exactly how I would explain the gospel, but it is a better and a more through explanation than many I have heard from Christians. So yes you have identified many/most of the important points that paint the picture of the gospel. Good job.

No one else seems to want to get too close, like it is a baited trap. If so, what have I stepped into?

There's no trap. As I explained to Amazing Rando, this is from my God-centred reading of the New Testament. I went thru from 1 Thessalonians to 2 Peter (and the other 25 in-between), and noted the presentation of God in any passage, explicit or implicit. The first post is my analytical summary of this.

Robyn Banks

Amazing Rando
April 30th 2004, 08:08 PM
Hi, Amazing Rando.

I'm not allowed to post in this forum anymore for some reason, but I don't know about replying to a very old post when I was allowed here. So if any moderators are feeling particularly literalistic, I guess this reply will disappear.

I believe that you can still participate in the old threads you began or were involved in- kinda like grandfathered in, you know? If I'm wrong then yes, tt will disappear! :blush:

I wanted to ask you, Amazing Rando, in response to your question: what does this say to you?

I note for your background, that I made this summary from reading through the New Testament. I was attempting to do a God-centred reading of the New Testament, with reference particularly to His action as described therein. The fact that the action is so centred on what may be termed 'The Gospel' is striking, and is merely the title I give to my summary of the New Testament's presentation of God.

Hope that helps.

Robyn Banks

You did a fine job too. :yes: Much better than some evangelicals I know could do. It's just a pity you don't believe it!

Robyn Banks
April 30th 2004, 11:16 PM
kinda like grandfathered in, you know?

I know all about grandfathering. I've started entire organizations just in time to get them grandfathered. :smile:




You did a fine job too. :yes: Much better than some evangelicals I know could do. It's just a pity you don't believe it!

I believe it in a coherence sense of truth. Just not in a correspondence sense. :smile:

Now, I questioned you about a comment you made. Ah. "So what does that say?" as in "Wow, now this is a weird thread- Robyn Banks clearly understanding the gospel of Christ, yet it's also clear he doesn't buy it. So what does that say?" I wondered what it 'said'. I know what it says to me, but I kind of figure your rhetorical question meant something different to you. So, if you can recall what you meant, I'd be mildly curious to know what it says.

Robyn Banks

kofh2u
May 2nd 2004, 07:51 PM
Hi Robyn,

Did you say that this synopsis was your own work, or did I read, further down the thread, that it was posted by someone else?

It was pretty comprehensive.

I noticed the absence of verses from Revelation. I have added a few of the many which complement those listed as references. Since the whole itemization was rather long, I only post here about half of my additions to those enumerated steps of the "Real Gospel."

These additions seem to augment and enhance a more rational an explicable interpretation for an audience in our own times. Doesn't it?

*The story concerns God unfurling his mysterious plan**
{Rev. 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, (symbolic of the maturing sociological, archetypal drive towards Harmony), when he shall begin to sound (in an Age of Great Technology), the mystery of God, should be finished: (Man is evolving, psychically!) as he hath (informed by means of scripture) his servants the prophets.}

*Which is his plan from the beginning that, through Christ, all may be reconciled to God**
{Rev. 10:10 And I took the little book (of Genesis) out of the angel's hand, and ate it up (in literary analysis); and it was in my mouth sweet as honey (in that I found a "hidden manna" in the form of an organizational contrivance): and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter (in understanding its meaning).}

*Christ is presented as the exact nature of God**
{Gen. 1:27 So God (The Universal Force) created man (an abstract mind in his own image, enabled to image The Universal Force, abstractly and mathematically), so created God (The Universal Force) him; male and female created he them.}

*and his perfect life presented in the gospels.**
{Rev. 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, (who is created in the image of Almighty Universal Power), to receive glory and honour, and power:}

*Creation is said to be made through Jesus**
{Rev 4:11 for thou hast created (mentally) all things (in abstract reality) and for thy pleasure they (are, and) were created (in the schmata of the mind's reality).}

*And Christ has made God known**
{Rev. 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool (as ageless as man himself), as white as snow (pure in the long solitude of genetic memories of our whole collective humanity), and his eyes (ancient and long recording of all human behavior) were as a flame (now ready and prepared to reveal itself in a shock) of fire (in an awakened Collective Unconscious).}

*by Jesus being sent from heaven.**
{Rev. 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars (the sevenfold angels of the psyche: Id, Libido, Ego, Anima, Self, Harmony, Superego): and out of his mouth went a two-edged sword (cutting both secular and theological understandings): and his countenance was as the sun (of rationality) shineth in his strength (of factual knowledge).}

*Through Christ’s humility and poverty, Christ became exalted**
{Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones (of Christian authority) set up (during the reign of Gregory I, {590-604AD}), and judgment was given unto them (in a Universal Catholicism): and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded (at the instigated of Emperor Diocletian {303- 13 AD}), for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God (which they read from a New Testament), who had not worshipped the beast (of a sexually excessive, misdirected economic system), neither his image, (in coinage), neither had received his mark (of promissory notes) upon their foreheads (in ledgers), or in their hands, (as payment); and they lived (monastic lives) and reigned with Christ (during a thousand years of Dark Ages).}

*and believers become rich in receiving the blessings he received.**
(Rev. 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich (a large denominational church), and increased with goods (accumulated art treasure, land, and income from tithes), and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched (without secularly acceptable scripture confirmations), and miserable, (entrapped in erroneous doctrine and blind dogma), and poor (in a declining membership), and nake (and unprotected from the ever growing Age of Enlightment):}

(end part one the Real Gospel)

Amazing Rando
May 3rd 2004, 09:54 AM
I know all about grandfathering. I've started entire organizations just in time to get them grandfathered. :smile:

I believe it in a coherence sense of truth. Just not in a correspondence sense. :smile:

Now, I questioned you about a comment you made. Ah. "So what does that say?" as in "Wow, now this is a weird thread- Robyn Banks clearly understanding the gospel of Christ, yet it's also clear he doesn't buy it. So what does that say?" I wondered what it 'said'. I know what it says to me, but I kind of figure your rhetorical question meant something different to you. So, if you can recall what you meant, I'd be mildly curious to know what it says.

Robyn Banks

It seems like you were trying to get into the mindset of an orthodox Christian, as if it had been an activity you were unfamiliar with, yet were trying to practice. Is that accurate? Like you had never before considered the orthodox Christian PoV, and you were doing your best to understand it and to read the Bible from its perspective.

Robyn Banks
May 3rd 2004, 03:16 PM
It seems like you were trying to get into the mindset of an orthodox Christian, as if it had been an activity you were unfamiliar with, yet were trying to practice. Is that accurate? Like you had never before considered the orthodox Christian PoV, and you were doing your best to understand it and to read the Bible from its perspective.

Thanks for letting me know what you meant.

That's not the case. I was making a summary of the New Testament picture of God. I was not interested in the orthodox Christian mindset. And the orthodox Christian mindset (in at least its fundamentalist protestant mindset) is something I am quite familiar with.

Robyn Banks

Amazing Rando
May 3rd 2004, 03:30 PM
Thanks for letting me know what you meant.

That's not the case. I was making a summary of the New Testament picture of God. I was not interested in the orthodox Christian mindset. And the orthodox Christian mindset (in at least its fundamentalist protestant mindset) is something I am quite familiar with.

Robyn Banks

I see. So you were trying to understand exactly what it is that the NT writers were trying to convey?

kofh2u
May 3rd 2004, 04:35 PM
Thanks for letting me know what you meant.

That's not the case. I was making a summary of the New Testament picture of God. I was not interested in the orthodox Christian mindset. And the orthodox Christian mindset (in at least its fundamentalist protestant mindset) is something I am quite familiar with.

Robyn Banks

I read you just the way you say you presented the ideas.

Orthodox is a misnomer which implies "correct" when it really means "ancient."

Orthodox in this more rational connotation has two disadvantages.

1) As we know, time and the incentives to political power inherent in subverting the meanings of the real gospel were prophesied, specifically in Jude.

2) The hoped for rationale' and sense of some completely acceptable means by which this gospel will essentially become manifest is almost "locked out" by the "orthodox language."

That the fulfillment and consumation of the "Real Gospel" is expected to embarrass the non-believer, and the Atheist, the general laid back secular community
supports the gospel outline you presented, particularly when viewed in the light ofbRevelation's added insights.

Is 32:4 Even the hotheads among them will be full of sense and
understanding, and those who stammer in uncertainty will speak out plainly.

Is 32:5 In those days the ungodly, the atheists, will not be heroes!
Wealthy cheaters will not be spoken of as generous, outstanding men!

kofh2u
May 3rd 2004, 04:52 PM
I see. So you were trying to understand exactly what it is that the NT writers were trying to convey?

Between the lines, you SEEM to be suggesting that this open statement (which appears to me as a summation or synopsis) ponders a mystery already answered?

If, as Revelation says, there is a mystery,...
....is there not?...
... it seems less smug that you note of Robyn: "you were trying to understand exactly what it is that the NT writers were trying to convey."

I find what is called "orthodox" to be rather "ancient" and behind tge times as regards human rationality now far advanced on all levels of understanding.

I see it insulting to God that our traditional, old, now archaic understandings must shroud the mysteries of things such as the seven spirits before the throne in order to maintain dogmas of the Middle Ages.

Rev. 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, (a sociological archetypal drive towards Harmony), when he shall begin to sound (in an Age of Great Technology), the mystery of God, should be finished: (Man is evolving!) as he hath (informed) his servants the prophets.

Robyn Banks
May 3rd 2004, 10:10 PM
Did you say that this synopsis was your own work

It was mine.

kofh2u
May 4th 2004, 12:21 AM
It was mine.

I am impressed, but you have continuously earned my admiration for your excellence in so many posts.

It seems strange to me that you are denigrated by induendo concerning what it is that you might be expected to accept in these details. You present the most concise and direct exposition of a gospel which begins with the statement and presupposition:

"The story concerns God unfurling his mysterious plan"

That you are reluctant to accept any supposed explanation of this mystery, whether democratically supported throughout the ages, or of recent speculation in the last century or so, ought not be so deplorable, even a sign of great patience and wise reserve.

That Orthodox opinions concerning this mystery are widely accepted, and assumed the most erudite in tneir ancient vintage, seems contradictory to me, at first glance.

Then, upon close reading, I myself find difficulty in "the party line."
The growing and ever mounting need to rely upon the pat answer, that God can do anything, even the paranormal and violate natural law, is wearing thin the congregations, as regards the church attendance of today.

That the secular community in science, history, and common sense finds old tonics to old inconsistencies as ridiculous is troubling enough. That an ever growing angry paganistic, sexually demanding, self-centerness pushs hard against the only social moral restraint, the church, is dangerous, sociologically speaking.

Rev. 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold (the golden spiritual
insights into the irrepressible idea of Psychic Consciousness emerging
from scripture) tried in the fire (of time), that thou mayest be rich
(in continued leadership); and white raiment (filling blank pages with revised misinterpretations), that thou mayest be clothed (in protection) that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear (or, reappear, such as visited in Geocentricism), and anoint thine eyes (so as to apprise thine thinking) with eyesalve (with secularly acceptable scriptural confirmations), that thou mayest see (the unsupportability of thy intuitive irrationalities).

stevy
May 4th 2004, 01:12 AM
"to who the eternal word has spoken is free from theorizing" !!!!

Robyn Banks
May 4th 2004, 04:17 AM
"to who the eternal word has spoken is free from theorizing" !!!!

This doesn't appear to have any grammar. Could you please explain what you wrote. I can't understand it.

Robyn Banks

Cleombrotus
May 4th 2004, 05:30 AM
Okay RB I'll bite.

It isn't exactly how I would explain the gospel, but it is a better and a more through explanation than many I have heard from Christians. So yes you have identified many/most of the important points that paint the picture of the gospel. Good job.

No one else seems to want to get too close, like it is a baited trap. If so, what have I stepped into?




Hey, just read it for what it's worth. Even Elijah was fed by ravens.

kofh2u
May 4th 2004, 10:55 AM
Hey, just read it for what it's worth. Even Elijah was fed by ravens.

Has Revelation 10:7 occurred?

Rev. 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, (a sociological archetypal drive towards Harmony), when he shall begin to sound (in an Age of Great Technology), THE MYSTERY OF GOD, should be FINISHED: (Man is evolving!) as he hath (informed) his servants the prophets.

Robyn Banks
May 4th 2004, 10:54 PM
Even Elijah was fed by ravens.

The Lord once spoke out of His ass.

Nicky
December 19th 2005, 05:27 AM
Amen!! :teeth:

stevy
December 20th 2005, 02:38 PM
"to who the eternal word has spoken is free from theorizing" !!!!



This doesn't appear to have any grammar. Could you please explain what you wrote. I can't understand it.

Robyn Banks

The Eternal Word is Christ (John 1:1-14 and 1 John 1:1-4). Christ said "I have come that they may have life." (John 10:10). He didn't say, I have come that they may give an analytical account of the gospel. What's the point of knowing the ingredients of a cure for cancer but never eating and consuming this cure, when you have been diagnosed with it ? Jesus said i have come to save that which is lost. Are you lost Robyn? "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." (Romans 3) However mans pride Robyn, as you ahve shown, prefers to analyze rather than admit.