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4given4life
April 28th 2006, 08:56 PM
Nick, here's where I'll post my specific questions that anybody can answer if they will. Is it ok to say that Abraham may have lied or was it an information lack because of fear of man about Sarah being his wife? Is a Christian obligated to keep the seventh day sabbath? Did Jesus Christ and the disciples truly break the sabbath or did they just break the Pharisee/Jew regulations of it? Was Jesus's avoiding to get killed a good tactic to use, or should he have faced his enemies? Why did Jesus do what he did on the sabbath? Is what they did technically harvesting and Jesus defended the disciples? Is a Christian to be careful for nothing or not careful for nothing? In the post-resurrection appearances would Jesus have to defy the law of gravity to be seen by the disciples while they were cooped up from the Jews? Does Paul contradict the beloved disciple John? Does Isaiah 60:20 contradict Amos 8:9? Or is Isaiah 60:20 an example of God rescinding back on what he had stated in Amos 8:9? Was Jesus supposed to be amenable to the law and not indifferent to it? Did Jesus treat the sabbath command as being indifferent to it? On the Abraham situation I'm looking for an answer opposite of what most people say about it, most people say it was either a lie or fib which is basically same thing. I'm also looking for a different answer than deceptiion which is same as lying. I believe Abimelech committed a trespass(sin of maybe ignorance and or violence). The lack of information giving would be the reference to that Sarah was also his wife. Not only his sister through another marriage of parents. If JPHolding is out there, I'm sorry that I may have been a bit obnoxious before in private e-mail with you about this under the name of crucifixionpower7@yahoo.com about the Abraham subject. I gracefully thought that it was necessary to apologize openly to you. I was in the process of debating on the SDAIssues forum with several SDA's and only one non-denominational person on there, and a Roman Catholic that debated on that forum. The criteria that I should've told you is the criteria that I've set here. Also folks in line with the sabbath question, how is Jesus sinless, when the New Testament portrays him as being somewhat indifferent to the sabbath command? I'm open to suggestions. Nick, I have a book suggestion for you to read it's got DWIGHT NICHOLS GOD'S PLANS FOR YOUR FINANCES which you may buy at Wal-Mart or online if it's online. It would help you in your posts to Nanimose. You folks let me know if I need to rephrase the questions. Also JPHolding, will you forgive me for how I treated you? I hope and pray we all can be the best of friends and not enemies like I've seen when glancing at other forums, it's surprising that I see what I deem to be skeptics quoting more bible verses than the Christians do. It seems to be weird in a way though. Probably the scriptures are taken out of context though. Either that or they were quoting the skeptics annotated bible. Maybe the ones that claim to have been skeptics can answer that one. Nick, in the post script I'm going to put an apology to JP and intersperse some of the things I asked about within the post I made above. So basically it's an apology with reiteration of earlier questions that's within the post. Whether JPHolding forgives me or not is his prerogative to do so if he wishes to. I felt that the things I posted to the Admins that I had to ask JPHolding to forgive me for the way I had treated him when I had that other account. I've already asked Christ to forgive me for being what I deemed to have been non-informative and maybe obnoxious towards JPHolding that day. I was upset because I was fighting a losing battle with the Sabbatarians especially since they quoted Psalm 119.

P.S. JP, I wasn't that swell at playing baseball when I was younger so that's probably why I didn't like your baseball analogy. I played RF and never got a hit. Though I still believe maybe that baseball is the most difficult sport to play. Since I didn't know I was partially blind until later on, it may have been a factor of why I didn't do so well at baseball. I have an eye disease called keratoconus. I may have gotten it a birth or maybe through some other way. It's a disease that's got an unknown cause. They don't know what causes it. Same thing with the schizoaffective/bipolar disorder. I was almost killed by a medication when I was dehydrated that I had to go to Providence hospital. Zyprexa was the name of the medication. The railroad doctor must not have known you aren't supposed to give Zyprexa to a person that's been dehydrated. Not only that, Zyprexa's been known to cause diabetes in some people. So JP I'm giving you a heads up of what has happened to me since the time I talked with you. So I can know exactly what Hired Gun is speaking about when she mentions anything about a mental institution because I was placed in one called Rainbow Mental Health facility. I kept telling my grandparents I didn't have ADD/PDD PDD is pervasive developmental disorder. I've been diagnosed several times by different people. Maybe Judas Iscariot had a case of bipolar disorder because normally with bipolar disorder they tend to be suicidal and think that everyone is out to kill them. I had the part where I thought some of my family was going to kill me. I guess trying to defend Seventh-day adventist doctrine against Amos eight, plus what I was probably eating and drinking, I wasn't drinking whole lot of water. I read somewhere where too much water can cause someone to go into epilepsy. I try to live and abide by what the bible says in all areas including areas of health and monetary matters in which it's all the Lord's to begin with so I try to give when I can. Since, I don't have a church to go to though, I can't see the tithe going any where though. I had a job for a while then it was taken away from me while I was in the hospital. Other than that I try to study the scriptures as best as I can by letting the Holy Spirit guide me into all truth. What's really trying is the passages about Abraham and what he said about Sarah. Also the passages of Jesus avoiding death from the Jews/Pharisees and other common enemies of Jesus's day, I guess because his crucifixion time hadn't arrived yet or something about that it wasn't his hour yet to come. Something of that nature. That'd be my closest guess as to one of the reasons why he avoided being killed. Other than that I don't know why he avoided being killed. If anybody could shed some light on any of those subjects including JPHolding can answer. That and the sabbath incidents. I would also like to know whether we should keep the ten commandments as Christians? You folks let me know If I've been too harsh or if I need to rephrase the questions for you in list format I will do that also. JPHolding if you see this I apologize to you for not telling you the criteria before I e-mailed you. I could've taken it privately but I decided to apologize openly and candidly here JP. Sorry for any misunderstandings JP. In Christian regards, William Roach :smile:

National Intelligence Director Phoenix
April 29th 2006, 09:50 AM
There's a lot here. I just wanted you to know I haven't overlooked it. I will probably answer Monday when I can devote more time to it.

National Intelligence Director Phoenix
May 1st 2006, 11:23 AM
Hi there! Let's get to your questions!

Nick, here's where I'll post my specific questions that anybody can answer if they will. Is it ok to say that Abraham may have lied or was it an information lack because of fear of man about Sarah being his wife?

Of course it's okay to say Abraham was being a coward and lied. Abraham's not meant to be God. Abraham's not meant to be perfect. We can find comfort in seeing that the heroes of the faith had their flaws also.

Is a Christian obligated to keep the seventh day sabbath?

No. The early church met on the first day of the week. The writings of the Ante-Nicene Fathers show us this. God rested on the 7th day of the creation. The new creation really began at the resurrection and we rest on that day to commemorate that.

Did Jesus Christ and the disciples truly break the sabbath or did they just break the Pharisee/Jew regulations of it?

The latter. Jesus never broke the law of God.

Was Jesus's avoiding to get killed a good tactic to use, or should he have faced his enemies?

Someone avoiding getting killed does not walk in a city that has a price on his head. Jesus was waiting until the proper time so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.

Why did Jesus do what he did on the sabbath? Is what they did technically harvesting and Jesus defended the disciples?

No. It's not harvesting. Jesus did what was perfectly allowable on the Sabbath.

Is a Christian to be careful for nothing or not careful for nothing?

I'm not sure what you're asking here.

In the post-resurrection appearances would Jesus have to defy the law of gravity to be seen by the disciples while they were cooped up from the Jews?

While I think Jesus certainly could, I don't see how that would help him get into a locked room.

Does Paul contradict the beloved disciple John?

I don't know any place where Paul would contradict John

Does Isaiah 60:20 contradict Amos 8:9? Or is Isaiah 60:20 an example of God rescinding back on what he had stated in Amos 8:9?

No contradictions. Both speak of different times.

Was Jesus supposed to be amenable to the law and not indifferent to it? Did Jesus treat the sabbath command as being indifferent to it?

He was not indifferent to it. He was indifferent to the oral law of the Pharisees.

On the Abraham situation I'm looking for an answer opposite of what most people say about it, most people say it was either a lie or fib which is basically same thing. I'm also looking for a different answer than deceptiion which is same as lying. I believe Abimelech committed a trespass(sin of maybe ignorance and or violence). The lack of information giving would be the reference to that Sarah was also his wife. Not only his sister through another marriage of parents.

Then you won't get another one. Getting truth is not about getting the answers you like. It's about getting the answers.

4given. You seem to have a lot of questions. I'm wondering why all of these are so pressing. I'd be willing to talk further but there are several people on our fine TWeb staff that would be able to lend their support as well.

jpholding
May 3rd 2006, 12:28 PM
Um...well...

I honestly remember neither you nor these questions. How long has it been?

(Either way, I obviously don't hold grudges!) :teeth:

4given4life
August 1st 2006, 09:03 PM
JP, I was under the name of crucifixionpower7@yahoo.com that ID has since been stolen and hacked by an individual that doesn't like me I guess. Also Nick, my study bible has said that Jesus would've had to defy the law of gravity to have appeared in the locked upper room. Considering that he is God I wouldn't doubt the validity of him doing that. JP, I don't hold grudges either. Primarily what I've seen that in the AKJV or KJV rendering of the word pluck on the sabbath situation, I looked it up on the thesaurus and pluck/harvest mean the same. I can tell you guys firmly that Seventh-day adventists and sabbatarians hold the view that they were picking grain on sabbath. Yet the Jews find fault with him for healing on that same day in John chapter five. I'm not quite sure if the Jews in John were much different than the Pharisees or not. I read in books I have there's no indifference with God, yet in the study bible I have which is Nelson Publishing KJV it states that Jesus was indifferent. Also I don't know what kind of Messiah the Jews expected. Also Nick the Seventh-day adventists have lists of those fathers and different readings of them than what Sunday-keeping churches have. I can find enough grounds in the NT to say we aren't under the ten commandment law. Nicholas, here's Philippians 4:6 from www.blueletterbible.org for you Nicholas so you know what I'm talking about:Phl 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. About Abraham though, to me it looks like an informational lack due to fear of the king and the Egyptians, or misinformation somewhere along the lines of those two things. I will tell you folks this, I don't like the terms lie or deception used because they are similar in nature, plus that's what the SDA's believe he did, of which I'm trying to steer clear of those types of people. They mix law/grace of which the apostle Paul warned against. I don't believe that Abraham was 100% perfect, which I know personally as men and women we make mistakes, errors, faults, and sins because of the fleshly things we do, but I believe in my heart that Abraham did a no-no thing, not necessarily a lie though. To me it looks fully right under the circumstances he was under to say what he said about Sarah. Plus God didn't punish him for it. The SDA that has an answer to the other father's writings is Bob Pickle an investigator for the whole group, he uses the cultic name of Jesus though Yahweh which isn't the name to begin with. They also use Yeshua too like some Jews do. There's a lot of offshoot groups that disparage the name of Jesus. Or totally hate it. For the longest time I didn't even know what salvation was or how it worked until I read in Romans chapter 10:17 Rom 10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. This was also taken from http://www.blueletterbible.org
My study bible says that the whole Salvation is God's work. Our response to it would be synergism, God's working would be monergism terms you might or might not be familiar with.

4given4life
August 3rd 2006, 07:54 PM
JP, it was months ago that I dialogued with you about the subject, and the reasons why this is so pressing is because I don't like the answer the SDA's have saying he lied then them using a skeptic like Jim Merritt to say there are contradictions in the bible to infer that since Abraham's a liar that God is also a liar. I personally believe scripture is inerrant(no errors). That's why it's so pressing to find out opposite answers of what SDA's say since I dislike the SDA's a lot. It was a man named Ronald B from the following website: http://members.tripod.com/omega77/AAAEXP.htm He quoted Jim Merritt on the SDAIssues forum a Yahoo group for discussing SDA issues run by Karl Wagner and a few others. That occurred a little bit before I went into the mental facility a second time, and weird things have been going on in the house since that time. I hear voices which have been lessened down by the seroquel I take. I still hear some voices though. I don't know for sure if it's God's voice or not. Everything is being slowly revealed to me in the voices I hear. I don't know if it's associated with the disorder I have or not. As I've been diagnosed several times first as ADD/PDD then the second time schizoaffective/bipolar disorder and now just schizoaffective disorder. I'm seeking opposite of what the SDA's self-proclaimed prophet is saying. I also know that from the thesaurus I have that harvest/pluck are similar. SDA's consider what the disciples did picking grain to eat. I was wondering does it take a societal need to go ahead and violate the sabbath command? That's what I'm getting at. I read on someone's defense site that one could violate the command if the societal need dictated it. I can't remember who's it was though. JP, I was under the name of crucifixionpower7@yahoo.com when I e-mailed you. That name has been recently hacked is why I don't use it no more. Also I would like to ask what you folks know about synergism vs monergism?

4given4life
August 3rd 2006, 09:55 PM
With the John/Paul situation I was inquiring where John talks about the commandments and where Paul speaks of salvation being by grace through faith only. I can tell you the Seventh-day adventists believe 1st John 5:1,2 to be God's test for certain things. At least the one of this site does: http://www.members.tripod.com/omega77/AAAEXP.htm I believe. Or just type in Ellen White defense and you should come up with a similar link.Hi there! Let's get to your questions!



Of course it's okay to say Abraham was being a coward and lied. Abraham's not meant to be God. Abraham's not meant to be perfect. We can find comfort in seeing that the heroes of the faith had their flaws also.



No. The early church met on the first day of the week. The writings of the Ante-Nicene Fathers show us this. God rested on the 7th day of the creation. The new creation really began at the resurrection and we rest on that day to commemorate that.



The latter. Jesus never broke the law of God.



Someone avoiding getting killed does not walk in a city that has a price on his head. Jesus was waiting until the proper time so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.



No. It's not harvesting. Jesus did what was perfectly allowable on the Sabbath.



I'm not sure what you're asking here.



While I think Jesus certainly could, I don't see how that would help him get into a locked room.



I don't know any place where Paul would contradict John



No contradictions. Both speak of different times.



He was not indifferent to it. He was indifferent to the oral law of the Pharisees.



Then you won't get another one. Getting truth is not about getting the answers you like. It's about getting the answers.

4given. You seem to have a lot of questions. I'm wondering why all of these are so pressing. I'd be willing to talk further but there are several people on our fine TWeb staff that would be able to lend their support as well.

4given4life
November 19th 2006, 09:00 PM
It's been months since I have posted to this thread I've changed my mind about avatars I'm not against them any more. I'm also in a bar getting internet privileges from them. About Abraham though I've done more research through the scriptures and have come up with the following scriptures that cross reference with Abraham's situation: Genesis 42:18; Nehemiah 13:8; and Proverbs 16:6; also I think one could also look at Genesis chapter 12 and cross reference that with Proverbs 21:1. I don't believe Abimelech was 100% innocent as he had claimed he was. I believe that just like the Egyptians with him he fell into the temptation of lust of the flesh because Sarah was fair or beautiful to look upon. She may have been a beautiful blonde haired gal, because I've studied about hair color and blonde hair is associated with being fair haired. I'm sure though that it was more than just the hair though that attracted them to her though. Right now the only thing I'm stuck on though is whether the Sabbath is a memorial of creation or was it a commandment that the fathers never knew. SDA's I know believe it's a memorial of creation. Moses puts it as both an item that would be at creation and the deliverance from Egyptian bondage(slavery). Nick and JP and Twebbers, I'm going to somehow get the people(SDA's primarily with the exception of a few)SDAIssues people from Yahoo groups to come on Tweb and discuss the Sabbath issue if that's ok with the moderators of Tweb. I thought I'd ask first though.

National Intelligence Director Phoenix
November 20th 2006, 10:28 AM
Go ahead.

4given4life
December 3rd 2006, 09:49 PM
Go ahead.
I've just now posted to the SDAIssues forum under gospel_not_law@yahoo.com and told them if they want to discuss the sabbath issue come to Theology Web. Not only the sabbath issue though the Abraham issue too.