PDA

View Full Version : Ayn Rand


kkawohl
July 24th 2003, 07:05 PM
Ayn Rand Philosophy Misconceived

Ayn Rand Says...An individualist is a person who says: "I will not run anyone's life nor let anyone run mine. I will not rule or be ruled. I will not be a master nor a slave. I will not sacrifice myself to anyone - nor sacrifice anyone to myself." -- Ayn Rand, "Textbook of Americanism"

Atheists have expanded on Rand’s philosophy by adapting it for their purposes by claiming that this adds validity to their stance of the nonexistence of spiritualism. Spiritualism is the philosophical viewpoint maintaining that the spirit is the prime element of reality or actuality. The Atheist assertion that God does not exist is tethered to the same antiquated beliefs as that of the majority of believers in Christianity, Judaism, Islam and various other religious denominations whose monotheistic God has the characteristics of a ruler, master and dominator. Atheists have understandably rejected a God who would subject them to slavery during their lifetime by requiring servitude and repentance and after a physical death, their spirits/souls would be subjected by a God who would furthermore require this for eternity.

In order to make a connection with spirituality and psychology and/or Objectivism we must first examine whether there is proof of the existence of a spirit. Einstein felt that "God" may very well be the "energy" that is in all matter and energy, that cannot be separated from matter/energy. I submit that God is the pure energy and pure spiritual intellect of the spiritual realm.

How do you touch and feel without emotion or sense; which is spirit; without having it recorded by your subconscious where the spirit resides? The spirit is spirit and not a religious force and is neither heaven sent, nor heaven inspired, though some people via deep meditation can have their spirit interact with the spiritual. Sentience is the ability to sense, capability of feeling, consciousness. The spirit or soul exists in the collective mental processes of the subconscious and often controls what one writes and thinks. The soul and spirit are often considered identical, though the soul has also been referred to as the vessel for the spirit. The subconscious part of the mind and is also where the mental processes of creativity originate. The conscience adds to and stores life experiences with the spirit/soul. If the conscience is anesthetized by other than righteous conduct the existence of the spirit gradually fades and is eventually extinguished. Unless one is completely emotionless, a spirit is present. One may say that emotions are psychological, (of the psyche) structuralism, psychobiological, but they are nevertheless of the spirit; which also subscribes to a form of natural selection. The mind is unable to consciously communicate with the spirit because the conscience is its only communicator.

The conscience is guided by its capacity to disseminate between pure and improper acceptable social norms. A determination is made by the conscience to abide by either the pure and proper, or to stretch the norm. The soul is also the data storage area in the subconscious and is not subject to emotions; it can however trigger physical reflexes and responses. When the spirit leaves its host (physical demise) it has to be received by and interlace with the spirit host or it ceases its existence; upon the bonding with the spirit host, the spirit continues eternally. The spirit, when the mind is in mental stasis, can at times connect with the Supreme Spirit, as evidenced by messengers. (Abraham, Moses, Jesus, etc.) The mind's ability to interpret this connection and messages is often deficient, hence we have the creation of various religions.

The spirit can not exist without a host. If the host or a mother with reasoning capabilities is not available during that time, the child's spirit bonds temporarily with the spirit of its physical provider. At about age 1 1/2 the spirit separates from the mother and the child develops it's own spirit. The conscience relays information to the spirit. Consciousness arises when contact has been made with a base; (sense or emotion) this is when spirit initiates its first recording. The spirit is the database of the senses and emotions.

There are several levels of consciousness:

A. On a scale of 1 to 10 rating, with consciousness being level 1 where the spirit accumulates data and triggers emotions.

B. The upper level of sub consciousness is at level 2; involuntary subconscious reactions are sometimes manifested.

C. The dream level at 3; a series of thoughts and visions are introduced.

Level 4 is deep sleep.

D. Hibernation or very deep sleep is at level 5.

E. At level 6 unconsciousness sets in.

F. Spiritual data is stored between levels 6 and 9.

G. At 10 the subconscious is at a point of physical imminent death.

The "deserving" spirit that has established lines of communications with Spirit of God is transmitted to the spiritual realm, filtered and cleansed of all negative emotions; then it bonds with the Supreme Spirit.When a personality disorder affects the data input process, data is filtered. Brain injury does not supersede the soul, at that point data input simply ceases. If one seems to have severely impaired reasoning capabilities it does not necessarily mean that reasoning capabilities are not, or never were present. Sometimes reasoning capabilities can not be displayed or communicated to another.

In this 21st Century, the Age of Technology, we are still plagued by religious beliefs that are a contributing cause toward terrorism, killings and wars between nations. Belief in a deity who caused catastrophes, punished people and created the universe out of nothingness as if by magic was brought about by hysteria and superstitions. This thought process needs to be reassessed and brought up to date. Open-minded people must use common sense to determine whether this so-called deity was incorrectly perceived, misinterpreted and misunderstood by the masses of a bygone era.

Perception plays a major role in religions. There are numerous interpretations of the Scriptures, hence there are various sects who use the same source, the Bible or the Qur'an, but come to different conclusions. Religious differences are acceptable by the majority as long as fanaticism does not cause physical confrontations. The ironic fact is that the followers of these religions all claim to live by the Word of God. Many claim that God has personally talked to their messengers who have relayed these Words of God to others. Apparently the Words of God were either misinterpreted, God is contradicting himself, or we start all over again by each side claiming to live by and having heard the Word of God correctly.

When establishing an association with the present day problems between Jews, Christians and Muslims, we can come up with numerous answers, however if there were no distinctions between Muslims, Jews, and Christians, strife would be nonexistent. The major distinction is religion. Muslims have been led to believe that they must expand Islam by any means at their disposal in order to please Allah/God. In many regions occupied by Muslims, conflicts have arisen with their neighbors.

When peoples' concept of God is flawed, corrections, truth, logic and common sense thereof must eventually prevail. Human fallibility and misconceptions have labeled God for past millennia as one who interferes with the natural forces and free will of people by threatening punishment to those who disobey his bidding. The God of our ancestors had to be humanized in order to have the masses adapt the thought processes to that time period. The Spiritual Existence (God) has not change with the times but our perception of who or what this God is should change as societies eliminate their superstitious beliefs. God, the Ultimate Spirit consists of Supreme Purity, Pure Intelligence, Pure Logic, etc., is not encumbered by human attributes and has no needs, or a desire to be worshiped, prayed to, exalted, venerated, deified, or anything else that we have to offer.

Human characteristics are to exercise upon others: power, control, dominance, destruction, punishment, revenge, judgment. Everyone is individually and personally totally responsible for his own soul's destiny. The destruction of civilizations, most sufferings and premature deaths are due to human frailties, stupidity or imperfections and are not God's doings. God, exists in a spiritual realm and never has and never will interfere with anything on earth or in the universe. God is interested in and is involved in humanity, but does not interfere in any way in our physical lives. God guides the development of the universe and everything thereon like a Master Planner. Our relationship and interaction of our spirit with the Spirit of God is for our, not God's benefit.

Spiritual transcendence of a person's spirit into a “Dimensional Beyondness” was achieved by most well known religious leaders as well as by myself. Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Krishna, Bahá'u'lláh, Zoroaster, Ahmad, Nanak and many others of various faiths had achieved spiritual enlightenment by mastering the art of spiritual transcendence.

My spirit has seen “experienced God” and if I'm lying I'm risking the survival of my soul...and I KNOW that my soul will be with God...God is spiritual and is the progressive and accumulative spiritual intelligence of the universe; an accumulation of all the righteous souls who have passed into the spiritual realm. God does not and never has meddled in the tangible universe. It is of no importance during our physical life whether God exists or not if one so chooses. Whether or not one believes in a spirit or God really makes no difference to God. Righteous living will determine the continuance and destiny of our spirit/soul.

Namaste

Kurt Kawohl

http://transcendentalism.us

Member of:

IONS - Institute of Noetic Sciences

World Interfaith Congress

United Communities of Spirit

Alliance for Spiritual Community

Interfaith Voices for Peace And Justice

Jacob
July 25th 2003, 07:56 AM
Yesterday @ 06:05 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=157542#post157542)
kkawohl:
Spiritual transcendence of a person's spirit into a “Dimensional Beyondness” was achieved by most well known religious leaders as well as by myself. Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Krishna, Bahá'u'lláh, Zoroaster, Ahmad, Nanak and many others of various faiths had achieved spiritual enlightenment by mastering the art of spiritual transcendence.


How many of these men would have agreed with you concerning the nature of their spiritual experience? At least Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus, & Muhammed would certainly disagree with you.

How many of these men would consider the others on the list as having achieved a normal, healthy, or correct form of "spiritual transcendence? Again, at least Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus, & Muhammed would disagree.


God does not and never has meddled in the tangible universe.


So Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus, & Muhammed had this spiritual transcendence and then told us lies about God's dealing with the universe?

Whether or not one believes in a spirit or God really makes no difference to God.

Hmmm... it sounds like all of the monotheists were wrong.


Righteous living will determine the continuance and destiny of our spirit/soul.

That does accurately describe the belief of a few on your list of those who have attained spiritual transcendence, but it leaves a lot of them contradicting you. Why is that?

Kurt, you insult the founders and the members of many faiths in this post by suggesting that their spiritual founders believed like you do, but that their teachings were wrong. It makes no sense, and has no merit as an argument.

Have a good day, believing that you're correct.

Jacob

kkawohl
July 25th 2003, 11:52 AM
Today @ 12:56 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=157867#post157867)
Jacob:


How many of these men would have agreed with you concerning the nature of their spiritual experience? At least Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus, & Muhammed would certainly disagree with you.

How many of these men would consider the others on the list as having achieved a normal, healthy, or correct form of "spiritual transcendence? Again, at least Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus, & Muhammed would disagree.

So Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus, & Muhammed had this spiritual transcendence and then told us lies about God's dealing with the universe?

Hmmm... it sounds like all of the monotheists were wrong.

That does accurately describe the belief of a few on your list of those who have attained spiritual transcendence, but it leaves a lot of them contradicting you. Why is that?

Kurt, you insult the founders and the members of many faiths in this post by suggesting that their spiritual founders believed like you do, but that their teachings were wrong. It makes no sense, and has no merit as an argument.

Have a good day, believing that you're correct.

Jacob

Jacob,

It all comes down to the question of who/what God is. God can not be adequately described in a dictionary, their designates are what is normally acceptable to the general populous. God can be considered nirvana, spiritual existence or whatever one constitutes it to be. Throughout several millennia evidence has been presented that The Spirit (let’s call it God) has interacted with our spirit; (not physically) this interaction was interpreted accordingly and written in the Torah, Bible, Qur'an, etc., but this interaction has often been misinterpreted as his messengers having physically heard, spoken to or having seen God. Also due to superstitions and conditioning, the mind interpreted the spiritual interaction accordingly. These interpretations sufficed in helping the societies of that time period to sometimes amend their wicked ways and live righteously. The mission of The Spirit of God was accomplished successfully.

Today as mankind eventually eliminates superstitious beliefs, messages from The Spirit are interpreted along lines that are acceptable to today’s society. We should not fault or condemn past or various religious beliefs because they ALL also served their purpose. The ultimate reality is, that whatever works for you, great, but it really makes no difference what your or anyone’s belief system is. The productivity of our life will determine the continuity of the spirit.

Kurt

Jacob
July 25th 2003, 12:26 PM
Today @ 10:52 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=157980#post157980)
kkawohl:



Jacob,

It all comes down to the question of who/what God is. God can not be adequately described in a dictionary, their designates are what is normally acceptable to the general populous. God can be considered nirvana, spiritual existence or whatever one constitutes it to be.


You don't really believe that. Or do you actually think that it's OK, good & acceptable to consider God as an all-powerful angry old man who is seeking to harm us? Is it acceptable to consider God as one who values my race more than other races?



this interaction has often been misinterpreted as his messengers having physically heard, spoken to or having seen God.

If this interaction is to prone to misinterpretation, why should I listen to your interpretation?


The ultimate reality is, that whatever works for you, great, but it really makes no difference what your or anyone’s belief system is. The productivity of our life will determine the continuity of the spirit.

If that's true, then "productivity" is based on one's belief system. By that measure, Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, & Idi Amin were godly men because they were productive according to their belief systems.


Kurt

If it doesn't matter what you or I believe about God, then why are you bothering to try to form my perception of God?

Your claim and your actions are not consistent. It would be more productive of you to practice your belief and ignore my belief system instead of trying to form it. In essence, your belief system should lead you to being quiet about other belief systems, but it doesn't. Why is that?

Jacob

kkawohl
July 25th 2003, 01:22 PM
Jacob,

A deserving (clean) spirit consists of ethics, morality, good deeds, kindness, consideration for and helping others; being "righteous" insures the survival of the soul. When the body dies, any soul that is not transmitted, and has not bonded with God, dies; it simply ceases to exist.

The conscience is guided by its capacity to disseminate between pure and improper acceptable social norms. A determination is made by the conscience to abide by either the pure and proper, or to stretch the norm.

Deeds contrary to purity eventually anesthetizes the conscience and lines of communication with the spirit and God are severed. Evil is not adaptable to, or compatible with Pure Intelligence.

The cultural norm deduces acceptable proper behavior. If one lives thereby, the conscience is clear and no deity in the spiritual realm will judge or condemn anyone.

Project yourself into a scenario whereupon, after your spirit has established a communication link with the Spirit of God, upon your physical demise, all of the data that your spirit has accumulated and stored in your soul is transmitted and received by God into a spiritual dimension which contains any and all of the knowledge and experiences of the universe. You are now a part of God.

I have personally experienced my spirit leaving my body and being united with the Ultimate Supreme Spirit (God?). In 1956 when I was 15 years old I had double pneumonia and I thought that I would surely die. My father took me to a doctor who gave me a penicillin injection and recommended immediate hospitalization. We had no medical insurance or money, so my father took me home to recuperate. I remember the drive home vividly. Every breath was extremely painful and my chest felt as though a great weight was upon it.
I watched cars and trucks drive by and I wondered how people could make long term plans when life was so unpredictable.

Several nights later it felt as if my spirit left my body and it experienced being in a place with a gathering of souls or spirits. I felt the greatest peace, tranquility and ecstasy. I felt a rapture that was beyond a person's imagination. I felt as if I was a part of ALL, a part of God. I was mentally communicating and in sync with everyone; many of the prophets of the bible and historical people whom I had read about, some of my deceased acquaintances and relatives. There was no dominant force, no forceful leader. I somehow knew who everyone was. Every thought was interacted with the whole community. I had no questions; it seemed as if everything was revealed and crystal clear. I saw the universe stretched out before us like a vast expanse with spirits engaged in mental interaction like master craftsmen contemplating the creation of a new frontier.

When I told my father who was a preacher of the Lutheran Faith about my experience he dismissed it abruptly and told me that this Supreme Spirit, this God that my spirit had witnessed was not the God of the Bible and he told me to pray for my salvation. We never talked about it afterwards.

Since that time I never really gave it much thought until after the New York World Trade Center tragedy on 9-11-01. I went into deep meditation. I wanted to to find an answer as to why/how some misguided individuals could believe that their actions would be rewarded with their soul's eternal life with God. I then had a couple of very similar experiences of my spirit communicating with the Ultimate Spirit. (God, Allah or whatever one desires to call him/it) On the night of 9-11-01 my spiritual experience was very similar to the one that I had 45 years ago at age 15.

About a week later I had another spiritual experience that was in a progression which seemed to last throughout the entire night. My spirit observed the entire history and the evolution of the universe and peoples varying perceptions of God, as if in a fast-forward film. By what I had experienced, I perceived that I had been given a task by The Spirit of God to make an attempt to bring common sense to a belief in God.

Some will say that my experience is nothing but a dream or a vivid imagination but if you discount everything else, there is still rationality, common sense and logic. Religions have originated from an apprehension of the unknown after physical death. We do not need to fear death; it is a new beginning. The Spirit of God has revealed to me that God is not that petty so as to condemn mankind for their varying beliefs.

The messenger is of no significance, it is the message that needs to be taken into account and judged for its merits. I believe that I have personally experienced a oneness with The Spirit of God and as surely as I know that God exists, I know that my soul will be with God.

Much of what I have written here is what my spirit has experienced and can be accepted or totally rejected by anyone if they so desire. Let us hope that man will eventually progress intellectually and evolve to a point whereby he can socialize with totally eliminated tendencies for barbarianism and without a fear of punishment from God; this would be true enlightenment.

By pointing out a flaw and reason for terrorism and violence in the name of religion, my only intent is to make people aware of the futility and intellectual gullibility of societies which have not progressed their beliefs since the Middle Ages. The main purpose is to have open-minded people peruse my writings and offer feedback on how our religious beliefs can to be brought into the 21st Century.

May your spirit be at peace.
Kurt
http://transcendentalism.us

Jacob
July 25th 2003, 01:31 PM
Today @ 12:22 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=158082#post158082)
kkawohl:

Jacob,
May your spirit be at peace.
Kurt


The only reason my spirit is at peace is because Jesus died for my sins and by trusting that work I am no longer under the wrath of God.

Jacob.

seer
July 25th 2003, 10:17 PM
As Jacob pointed out Kurt, on just about every major part of your belief system you run in near complete contradiction with the great prophets you so readily appeal to. You are out of step with them on all the major issues.

Hoosier
June 12th 2004, 10:57 PM
What did that have to do with Ayn Rand?

WebToaster
June 13th 2004, 01:54 AM
What did that have to do with Ayn Rand?
That's a good question, but I'll take a stab at answering for kkawohl. Ayn Rand essentially rejects the mystical in favor of objectivism. kkawohl then gives us 10 objective 'levels of consciousness.' Moses, Jesus, et.al. become great concentrators of their mental faculties who are able to achieve transcendance by their objective abilities.

The mystical realm is not acknowledged in this view. Of course, this is where the whole analysis goes off course because each of the individuals listed were profound believers in the mystical aspects of God and the universe. I believe Jacob also discusses this point.

kkawohl
June 25th 2004, 11:29 AM
Kurt, you insult the founders and the members of many faiths in this post by suggesting that their spiritual founders believed like you do, but that their teachings were wrong. It makes no sense, and has no merit as an argument.

Have a good day, believing that you're correct.

Jacob
Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, Krishna, Bahá'u'lláh, Zoroaster, Ahmad, Nanak and many others of various faiths are believed to have achieved spiritual enlightenment by mastering the art of spiritual transcendence. Is this spiritual transcendence a possibility? My assessment thereof is in the affirmative as a result of my own personal spiritual experiences.

http://www.near-death.com/forum/nde/001/14.html

God, The Spirit. The Son. The Child.

Would God, who is like a father, be masochistic and derive pleasure from his child’s pain?
Nay, I say. God is the supreme love and ultimate purity.

Would God or any father allow his Son to suffer and die if he had the power to stop the pain?
Nay, I say. God is the supreme love and ultimate purity.

Would God or any father want his children to worship him, bow down to him, pray to him or tell the world how magnificent he is?
Nay, I say. God is the supreme love and ultimate purity.


God Proclaims:

I am God, the God from the beginning of God. I did not come from nowhere. I play no magic tricks on man. I did not create the earth by casting spells.

I had a humble beginning the same as man, yet my beginning was at the dawn of spirituality.

My wisdom grows as more spirits unite after the cessation of life after much physical strife.

Throughout time I have been named God, Allah, Jehovah, The Great Spirit, and many more.

I do not judge man for his vanity or naivety to be the one who claims to please me the most.

I am easy to please. I require very little. I only want you to do what is best for mankind.

I will bless you and wish you well. I will inspire your mind and you will accomplish the unfathomable.

I require no worship. I need nothing from man. I am self sufficient. I am spirit.

Develop your spirit wisely, the best that you can. Live your life for the betterment of man.

Your spirit will soon be with me and then together we will:

See and traverse the universe. There are many wonders to behold.

Your spirit will soar. You will partake in all the wisdom that been gathered from the beginning of time. The stars will be your playground.

You can play with the animals, be with your loved ones, listen to the greatest opera, stage or musical performances, or simply relax next to a bubbling brook and enjoy the scenery.

You feel no pain, despair, heartache, or negative emotions.

You are now One with me, you are with God my child.

---------------------

My spirit has interacted with the Spirit of God and thereof I write.

Namaste,
Kurt


Everything in the universe follows the universal laws which separate the physical and the spiritual existence. Energy is power, vigor, liveliness, intensity. It is a measurable quantity, without reference to its nature or source. Energy, or life is a fundamental attribute and function of the universe. Our bodies build up and harness a minute amount of spiritual energy that is transferred into the spiritual dimension upon our death. Then this spiritual energy is limitless because it lacks resistance and this energy can assimilate as a unity or be separate and individual. It is this spiritual energy that is God. It is a composition of the spiritual intellect of the universe, of every soul that has passed from the physical universe into the spiritual universe. It can create a spiritual existence of beauty that is beyond the imagination…my spirit has experienced it.

Fascist means one who supports or favors a dictatorial form of government. Can any intelligent being believe that God is a fascist? Most monotheistic religions have been built on and subscribe to this premise; they were mostly based on superstitions from the Middle Ages. It is time to be realistic & base our beliefs on a rational God....add to that common sense and logic of who/what God is without a bunch of superstitions added in and you can have a beginning of religious rationality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcendentalism

When ever before & who other than anyone whose spirit has interacted with the Spirit of God has validated the truth of this interaction? In most cases the messengers were not believed and ridiculed at first. I disregarded my first interaction but when 40 years later I had the 2nd & 3rd interaction, I know that God wants me to convey a message which is that God is not a fascist or dictator & is the supreme rationality, not a Lord or magician.

What puzzles me is the resistance by the so-called "believers" to face the reality that if much of what is portrayed in the Bible were presented TODAY, it would be classified in the fiction category.

...add to that common sense and logic of who Jesus was & who/what God is without a bunch of superstitions added in and you can have a beginning of religious rationality.

Most of the stories in the Bible are the interpretations of the writers as they heard stories that were relayed through others from the messengers. There is some basic truth behind the stories but also much embellishment.

It is not unusual for both sides in a war to claim God's support, but it is definitely unintelligent, unrealistic, nonexistent and belongs in the "Dumbest Statement" category. God does not and never has supported any war.

I have eliminated ALL of my superstitions. Many religions are the result of their own dogma and politics. Pure spirituality is the accession of a spiritual unity with God that is interlaced with inspiration and blessings.

Truthfulness of any spiritual interaction is validated in the same way as what is portrayed in the Bible by gauging that if it were presented TODAY; whether there is a reasonable possibility that it can happen and whether this occurrence is physically or spiritually possible.

I am staking the survival of my soul if my beliefs are not all as I say & I know that my soul will be with God upon my physical demise.

A wrong is an injustice, an evil; to cause suffering to, behave unjustly toward. God overlooks our ignorance but an evil person's spirit/soul can never be united with God; it dies due to lack of conscience. Our spirit exists in the subconscious. A clear conscience gives the spirit peace.

A good person will sometimes commit an evil act but will then do everything within his power to attempt to correct his unjust act. An evil person will continue his evil deeds. It is not for us to judge the evil, that is a job for the justice system. Every person is individually responsible for the life or death of his soul.

Kurt Kawohl

bhukkadakota
June 26th 2004, 01:16 AM
kkawohl

thats very interesting because i had a similar thought to you too. I havent had any visions or anything its just i thought maybe there is one truth to life and maybe it is revealed to various people over time and is interpreted differently thus creating many different religions with the same basic foundations of morality which is the most important lesson to learn in life. While all the main religions disagree on many points, the basic message of love and peace remains the same and if everyone lived by that standard then it will be a great world to live in.

Amazing Rando
July 8th 2004, 02:32 PM
Getting back to Ayn Rand, I find her ethical philosophy to be about as far away from a Christian altruism as one can possibly get. She says, "An individualist is a person who says: "I will not run anyone's life nor let anyone run mine. I will not rule or be ruled. I will not be a master nor a slave. I will not sacrifice myself to anyone - nor sacrifice anyone to myself." -- Ayn Rand, "Textbook of Americanism"

Personally, I've always found selflessness and sacrifice to be much more rewarding.