Freedom of Speech For Sale In Utah

[Exmo-Robertson]

From:http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=5&sid=39611

For those who haven't been following this story, the LDS Church has been trying to buy part of a public section around Temple Square in Salt Lake to stop Christian ministers from talking to people about Mormonism or just simply handing out pamphets. Through crooked back street deals and spreading lots of cash around they will finaly get their wish Monday.


LDS Church to Take Control of Main Street Monday
Jul. 23, 2003
(Salt Lake City-AP) -- The Mormon church will officially take command of the much contested Main Street Plaza after a meeting Monday.

The swap takes place a few days after the city commemorates the day Mormon pioneers entered the Salt Lake Valley. According to the settlement agreement, the first day the city could have transferred command of the plaza is July 24th, a state holiday recognizing the arrival of pioneers in 1847.

Instead, church representatives and Mayor Rocky Anderson are scheduled to meet Monday at eleven a.m. to exchange money and property. Then, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can limit behavior on the plaza, and the city can begin to build a west-side community center in Glendale.

The City Council voted last month for Anderson's proposed land swap. However, the minute the documents are signed Monday, the public easement will vanish, and pedestrians will not have a right to walk through the plaza -- though church representatives say they plan to keep it open.

(Copyright 2003 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)


Dana-If Mormons hate anything, it's freedom of speech, unless it's their own.

[Timothy Leary]

Ok, this is a bunch of bull. A good portion of my family converted to Mormonism, unfortunately, and live in Utah. The problem they've been having in Salt Lake is that Baptist preachers have been screaming at the mormons - literally screaming in many cases - you're going to hell! you're going to hell!

That becomes a big problem. When I had to go to that area with my family, and was approached by missionaries, they didn't try to supress my freedom of speach at all, and I'm absolutely against almost everything they believe.

[Trout]

yoshiah_ap:

Ok, this is a bunch of bull. A good portion of my family converted to Mormonism, unfortunately, and live in Utah. The problem they've been having in Salt Lake is that Baptist preachers have been screaming at the mormons - literally screaming in many cases - you're going to hell! you're going to hell!

That becomes a big problem. When I had to go to that area with my family, and was approached by missionaries, they didn't try to supress my freedom of speach at all, and I'm absolutely against almost everything they believe.

yosiah,

people don't always act the way they should, but that doesn't give the city of Salt Lake the right to sell public property to the Mormons.

As with any freedom, there need also come common sense.

[Jin-Roh]

Yeah that is very underhand. If what yoshiah described was happening, then the LDS church could've appealled to the police force on grounds of harassement -and they would've been justified in doing so.

[Undomiel]

lol I lived in Utah for 10 years as a christian. You DON'T want to know what happened to me there. Suffice it to say, nothing surprises me anymore. I think, however, this would be true regardless of the religion. If it was primarily catholic, or primarily protestant, or primarily atheist, the voice of the majority would win out eventually. I wonder, does all of Vatican City belong to the Catholic church and have they increased their size at all by buying public lands, in the last 1000 years?

[Timothy Leary]

12-23-2003 @ 12:50 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=351939#post351939)
troutk13:



yosiah,

people don't always act the way they should, but that doesn't give the city of Salt Lake the right to sell public property to the Mormons.

As with any freedom, there need also come common sense.

I know. However, nothing else has changed. I just don't hear anyone screaming "you're going to hell" when I have to visit Utah. Don't get me wrong - the mormons have plenty of problems. There are people who live nearby my relatives who give me the dirtiest looks you'd ever see whenever I come by, because I refuse to convert to Mormonism.

[Trout]

yoshiah_ap:

I know. However, nothing else has changed. I just don't hear anyone screaming "you're going to hell" when I have to visit Utah. Don't get me wrong - the mormons have plenty of problems. There are people who live nearby my relatives who give me the dirtiest looks you'd ever see whenever I come by, because I refuse to convert to Mormonism.

Yosiah, are you paranoid or are you suffering from some guilt anxiety? :noid:

[Timothy Leary]

Today @ 01:12 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=354801#post354801)
troutk13:



Yosiah, are you paranoid or are you suffering from some guilt anxiety? :noid:

Nah, but just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean the world isn't after me *evil smirk*.

I guess I'm just getting a bit tired of missionaries coming up to me and asking me whether I'd like to hear "Heavenly Father's plan of Salvation" - tzitzit kinda make you stick out in Utah.

[Trout]

yoshiah_ap:

Nah, but just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean the world isn't after me *evil smirk*.

I guess I'm just getting a bit tired of missionaries coming up to me and asking me whether I'd like to hear "Heavenly Father's plan of Salvation" - tzitzit kinda make you stick out in Utah.

Have you considered carrying a large club?

[Jin-Roh]

Or spray can? :teeth:

I haven't had a visit from Mormons in ages, but from what folks tell me, if you refute the BOM or anything else about Mormonism with good arguements, they'll go away and not come back.

[Undomiel]

I would highly suggest, if you're going to refute it, don't refute while you're in Utah. This would be like walking into the Vatican and refuting the authority of the Catholic Church. Or marching onto a well known Baptist Campus and telling the Dean that eternal salvation is a false doctrine. Or crashing a pagan ritual and telling them their worshipping demons. There are some things you just don't do, for your own well being, and refuting mormons on their own territory is a very bad idea.

[Timothy Leary]

Maybe I'll carry a thingy of Mace Spray.

[Timothy Leary]

Today @ 02:12 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=356390#post356390)
Undomiel:

I would highly suggest, if you're going to refute it, don't refute while you're in Utah. This would be like walking into the Vatican and refuting the authority of the Catholic Church. Or marching onto a well known Baptist Campus and telling the Dean that eternal salvation is a false doctrine. Or crashing a pagan ritual and telling them their worshipping demons. There are some things you just don't do, for your own well being, and refuting mormons on their own territory is a very bad idea.

But am I just supposed to ignore them, when "by coincidence", the missionaries are at my relatives' houses every time I visit Utah? (Ok, well not every time....)

[Undomiel]

Today @ 03:26 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=356432#post356432)
yoshiah_ap:



But am I just supposed to ignore them, when "by coincidence", the missionaries are at my relatives' houses every time I visit Utah? (Ok, well not every time....)

Nooo, don't ignore them! Just be polite, and smile and nod and tell them you'll consider it at some future date. Don't debate them on it though. It may have repercussions for your family members who live there, and you know they don't deserve to suffer because of your personal decisions. I am not mormon, but I lived there and made all the mistakes I'm warning you about. Life was very bad there after that. I was fired from every job I got, among other things. You don't want this to happen to your family, so you keep a low profile and consider - they think they are trying to help you so their intentions are good.


I don't think you'll need mace though.

[Jin-Roh]

12-27-2003 @ 06:12 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=356390#post356390)
Undomiel:

I would highly suggest, if you're going to refute it, don't refute while you're in Utah. This would be like walking into the Vatican and refuting the authority of the Catholic Church. Or marching onto a well known Baptist Campus and telling the Dean that eternal salvation is a false doctrine. Or crashing a pagan ritual and telling them their worshipping demons. There are some things you just don't do, for your own well being, and refuting mormons on their own territory is a very bad idea.

Spray can it is then. :thumb:

Well seriously, I can understand why I wouldn't do that on "mormon turf," however if one of them came to my house or such that would be diffrent. I obviously would not be obligated to accept their views just becuase I happen to live in "their state."

(after all, I am a conservative you lives in california...)

[Benedict]

I have a slightly easier time of it in Arizona. Last I heard, my city had more Mormons that SLC (or maybe the highest except SLC).

A lot of times when you try to refute the Book of Mormon you get slammed for not respecting their religion.

[Trout]

Benedict:

I have a slightly easier time of it in Arizona. Last I heard, my city had more Mormons that SLC (or maybe the highest except SLC).

A lot of times when you try to refute the Book of Mormon you get slammed for not respecting their religion.

Benedict, always remember it was Joseph Smith who first began the contention, he said of all the churches of Christendom, that all of the professors were corrupt and that all their creeds were an abomination. Soo it would seem that it is the Mormon who lacks respect, not you.

[Benedict]

Oh, there is no need to remind me of the many pitfalls of Mormon claims. As I said, there are supposed to be more in my city than SLC.

What I meant by easier, now that I see I did not explain it, is that most of the "Mormons" in my city are like the "Catholics" I meet: they think they are because they were born into it. They fail to see that being Mormon or being Catholic entails doing something and believing something.

I got my start in apologetics by reading papers from the Mormon church and going :huh:

[Jin-Roh]

:lol:
I think there's a fair consenus that Mormon Apologists/Missionaries can dish it out but can't take it.

If you don't believe me just check out some of the really old "Exmo-robertson vs. every-Mormon-that-dares-cross-his-path" threads in the locker room.

Exmo: The Book of Mormon is a big farce! Here's 20K Characters worth of reasons why! I can't believe I used to be one of you!
:argh:
Mormon: Exmo isn't being very Christ-like! He's taking Mormon sources out of Context! Leave me alone you big mean traditional Christain!
:bawl:

[Bill the Cat]

I have invited Dana back a few times, but he is really busy with his site. He asked me to let him know if Kevin returns though...

[Benedict]

That was generally my experience if the person even stayed long enough to listen (as I said, many were "Mormon" in name and not in practice and few cared enough to actually listen).

[Timothy Leary]

URL please?

01-07-2004 @ 07:53 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=367032#post367032)
Jin-Roh:

:lol:
I think there's a fair consenus that Mormon Apologists/Missionaries can dish it out but can't take it.

If you don't believe me just check out some of the really old "Exmo-robertson vs. every-Mormon-that-dares-cross-his-path" threads in the locker room.

Exmo: The Book of Mormon is a big farce! Here's 20K Characters worth of reasons why! I can't believe I used to be one of you!
:argh:
Mormon: Exmo isn't being very Christ-like! He's taking Mormon sources out of Context! Leave me alone you big mean traditional Christain!
:bawl:

[Jin-Roh]

Well I've dug up a few. They went at it for quite some time though.
-Don't get your hopes up (http://theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7275)
-Kevins Vents about exmo (http://theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7275)
and..
-a pair of hissy-fits. (http://theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6552)

These are some long threads. Ye have been warned.

[master_mormon]

From:http://tv.ksl.com/index.php?nid=5&sid=39611

For those who haven't been following this story, the LDS Church has been trying to buy part of a public section around Temple Square in Salt Lake to stop Christian ministers from talking to people about Mormonism or just simply handing out pamphets. Through crooked back street deals and spreading lots of cash around they will finaly get their wish Monday.


LDS Church to Take Control of Main Street Monday
Jul. 23, 2003
(Salt Lake City-AP) -- The Mormon church will officially take command of the much contested Main Street Plaza after a meeting Monday.

The swap takes place a few days after the city commemorates the day Mormon pioneers entered the Salt Lake Valley. According to the settlement agreement, the first day the city could have transferred command of the plaza is July 24th, a state holiday recognizing the arrival of pioneers in 1847.

Instead, church representatives and Mayor Rocky Anderson are scheduled to meet Monday at eleven a.m. to exchange money and property. Then, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can limit behavior on the plaza, and the city can begin to build a west-side community center in Glendale.

The City Council voted last month for Anderson's proposed land swap. However, the minute the documents are signed Monday, the public easement will vanish, and pedestrians will not have a right to walk through the plaza -- though church representatives say they plan to keep it open.

(Copyright 2003 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)


Dana-If Mormons hate anything, it's freedom of speech, unless it's their own.

Anyone who has ever seen these wonderful "street preachers" would know the reasons for it. Believe it or not, these wonderful street preaching "christians" are rude and are not there to do any good but simply hate. Examples like people yelling at LDS brides coming out of the temple and the wonderful "christians" yelling profane things at the brides on their weddings really brings the Christian spirit in. In fact the tacts by these people has gotten so bad that a number of local evangelical churches has sent letters of apology to the LDS church for the bad examples these street preachers do. Perhaps if these people chose to have more meaningful dialogue with LDS rather than holding up signs and yelling hate, perhaps things would be better.

LDS don't picket places of worship where evangelical christians attend. We ask for the same courtesy.