A question of Truth

[Larry Ancil]

Simply, is most of our sarcasm actually lies?

When we say something and then follow it with "just kidding," we obviously don't mean what was said. This being so, have we just spoken falsely? Should we?

I often don't pick up on sarcasm. In part I feel this is due to my not using it and also to my expecting people to speak truthfully to me. I seem to be not entirely alone in this, but would like to know of others who would agree.

I don't think it should be a question of what is socially acceptable. Christians, I think should recognize the value of not accepting the worlds standards. Others should still recognize the merit of being regarded as a speaker of truth. I welcome discussion from both sides. I think we would all fair better for making it our practice to speak the truth or remain silent.

[Ryokan]

Simply, is most of our sarcasm actually lies?

When we say something and then follow it with "just kidding," we obviously don't mean what was said. This being so, have we just spoken falsely? Should we?

I often don't pick up on sarcasm. In part I feel this is due to my not using it and also to my expecting people to speak truthfully to me. I seem to be not entirely alone in this, but would like to know of others who would agree.

I don't think it should be a question of what is socially acceptable. Christians, I think should recognize the value of not accepting the worlds standards. Others should still recognize the merit of being regarded as a speaker of truth. I welcome discussion from both sides. I think we would all fair better for making it our practice to speak the truth or remain silent.
Sarcasm is a rhetorical device. :shrug: Maybe is should require a license to use.

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

The Apostle paul uses sarcasm in at least some of his letters. I think it has its place.

[Larry Ancil]

The Apostle paul uses sarcasm in at least some of his letters. I think it has its place.
Citation? I've heard people say that Paul was being sarcastic when he said something about why don't those guys go emasculate themselves, but I think that may have been his ACTUAL desire. Also, if Paul used it, does that make it right?

[James Peter]

Also, if Paul used it, does that make it right?

If Paul used it under the inspiration of the Spirit (i.e his letter is the word of God as much as the message of Paul) then yes, if Paul used it in Scripture then it would follow that it is acceptable.

[Teallaura]

Although some people, like yourself, don't pick up on it readily (straight-forward thinkers usually have that problem with both sarcasm and double entendre - it's not a failing, just a fact of life) sarcasm can be a very effective way of making a point. So long as the point itself is truthful - and the sarcasm isn't used to delibrately deceive, I don't see that there is a problem with it.

Now, using it delibrately on someone I knew had difficulty with it would be wrong - it has both deceptive and arrogant connotations in that case. Here I think intent is the determining factor: are you trying to drive home a point or delibrately drive one into the rough?

[Larry Ancil]

If Paul used it under the inspiration of the Spirit (i.e his letter is the word of God as much as the message of Paul) then yes, if Paul used it in Scripture then it would follow that it is acceptable.

Well, I don't want to start an inspiration debate, but there is at least one point where Paul is express in stating what he is writing is his own view. This I think would make an option for this not always being the case.

Also, where do you think Paul was using it?

[Larry Ancil]

Although some people, like yourself, don't pick up on it readily (straight-forward thinkers usually have that problem with both sarcasm and double entendre - it's not a failing, just a fact of life) sarcasm can be a very effective way of making a point. So long as the point itself is truthful - and the sarcasm isn't used to delibrately deceive, I don't see that there is a problem with it.

I actually have an appreciation for double-entendre. Linguistic humor is a favorite of mine.

Your answer seems like it might lead to some situational ethics. i.e. It's ok to tell an untruth (lie, sarcasm, whatnot) as long as the end is good. Do you see that following from your answer? Do you agree with my extension?


Now, using it delibrately on someone I knew had difficulty with it would be wrong - it has both deceptive and arrogant connotations in that case. Here I think intent is the determining factor: are you trying to drive home a point or delibrately drive one into the rough?

I am also getting at the point of whether or not we should be speaking that which is not true. Falsehood, biblically, is not looked upon favorably. I think our culture doesn't recognize sarcasm as falsehood. Maybe we should.

[Teallaura]

I actually have an appreciation for double-entendre. Linguistic humor is a favorite of mine.

Your answer seems like it might lead to some situational ethics. i.e. It's ok to tell an untruth (lie, sarcasm, whatnot) as long as the end is good. Do you see that following from your answer? Do you agree with my extension? No, I don't agree. You're reading a bit too much into what I wrote, I think, because you seem to see all sarcasm as deceptive. Sarcasm isn't by its nature deceptive although it can be used for that purpose. If so used (ie delibrate deception) then it's wrong.

It can be used to drive home a deception, of course, which would also be wrong. If however it is used to drive home a point which is itself true (or believed to be) there is no deception involved.



I am also getting at the point of whether or not we should be speaking that which is not true. Falsehood, biblically, is not looked upon favorably. I think our culture doesn't recognize sarcasm as falsehood. Maybe we should.I see what you're saying - but I think you're being overly literal. Jesus Himself said things which were not literally true in His use of hyperbole. Literal, word-for-word truth isn't always the objective - but the truth being revealed/discussed in the statement is. Sarcasm uses a kind of reverse psychology to make that truth apparent.

Sarcasm, like hyperbole, has a use in effective communication. When the intent is to illuminate and not to deceive, I see no problem with it (allowing for those times when, like any other tool, it will not be effective).

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

Citation? I've heard people say that Paul was being sarcastic when he said something about why don't those guys go emasculate themselves, but I think that may have been his ACTUAL desire. Also, if Paul used it, does that make it right?1 Corinthians 4:8a comes to mind. 4b reveals that 4a was sarcasm.

[revivalfire]

I use sarcasm in jokes with my friends and things like that. I have used it to bring across a point once or twice that I felt Biblically, needed to be stated, but I didn't want to just blurt it out. I wanted my audience to try and get into the groove of my thinking so they could understand where I was coming from, i.e. I ask a question that has an obvious answer and allow my audience to think about all the perspectives of it rather then just say the answer and my audience automatically jumps to their own perspective.

(Shrugs)...I believe that it can be used either way. We need to be careful with our tongues, and not tear people down or put them in harms way. But I also believe sarcasm can be used to edify and to show truths that otherwise may be lost or not fully understood.

[Larry Ancil]

[QUOTE=revivalfire]I ask a question that has an obvious answer and allow my audience to think about all the perspectives of it rather then just say the answer and my audience automatically jumps to their own perspective.
QUOTE]

Sounds to me like you are asking rhetorical questions perhaps. Either way, if you are asking questions then you are not using sarcasm as I know it. I'm talking about when we say something that we believe to be false and are "just kidding."

[revivalfire]

Oh, I see. Like, if I accused someone of being or doing something wrong, knowing that it wasn't true, and then after allowing that person to become upset or whatt not, then say 'just kidding'? Yeah, I'd say that would be wrong. Maybe it is different if that person realizes it is a joke and jokes along. But if they are going to offended, especially if you know this, then yes, I believe Paul is saying that that would be wrong.

[revivalfire]

I apologize if I'm still not getting what your saying. I'm tryin'! Really!:teeth: