I miss my days as a futurist. Here's why .

[mrsnacks]

"666" sense: Date marked with caution
While some say June 6, 2006, is a day to fear for its biblical significance, officials see little to dread.
By Howard Pankratz
Denver Post Staff Writer
DenverPost.com

With June 6, 2006, rapidly approaching, authorities in Colorado and elsewhere are carefully watching to see if that date - 6/6/06 - spurs demonstrations or violent activity.

They are aware that 666 signifies the Mark of the Beast or the Antichrist to some organizations and believe June 6 is a date that could trigger problems.

"It's been a conscious question among some of our folks, so they've been on the lookout for something," said Lance Clem, spokesman for the Colorado Department of Public Safety. "But they haven't seen anything."

Even so, some local police are being vigilant.

"The bottom line is that our intelligence unit is familiar with 666 and its significance, but we don't have any information about anything taking place in Colorado Springs," said Lt. Rafael Cintron of the Colorado Springs Police Department. "However, we are certainly keeping our feelers out to see if anything is happening."

Some dates and anniversaries can be calls to action for white supremacists, racists, and conspiracy and prophecy theorists.

April 19, for example, is the anniversary of the raid on the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas; the Oklahoma City bombing; and the raid on white separatist Randy Weaver's home at Ruby Ridge, Idaho.

The Number of the Beast, 666, is mentioned in the Bible's book of Revelation and is believed by some to be when the Antichrist will exercise power over Earth.

The Internet is full of websites that predict terrible things could happen June 6.

One website warns that the "Bible Code says 2006 A.D. is the Year of the Beast" and predicts that the Antichrist will reveal himself. It also says there may be a holy war against Israel and that the United States and Russia would be drawn into a dangerous conflict as a result.

Several major law enforcement agencies in the Denver metro area have seen no signs of trouble and aren't planning to beef up manpower.

Since 1970, there have been 60 terrorist attacks on June 6, with just one in the U.S., according to the Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism in Oklahoma City.

Chip Ellis, the institute's research and program coordinator, said he has seen nothing to indicate anything bad will happen June 6.

If something does develop, Ellis does not believe it would necessarily involve neo-Nazi, white- supremacist types. Rather it could be "anarchists and anti-globalists" who are tied into the counterculture and relish "the chance to stick their thumb in the eye of the establishment," he said.

Laird Wilcox, a Kansas-based expert on domestic extremist groups, believes dates can be overemphasized. He cites in particular the concern about the year 2000.

"What I see happening is something like the millennium controversy where everybody was talking about it and then nothing happened," he said. "I think this has occurred on every anniversary. Everybody anticipates some catastrophe, and nothing ever occurs."

But Kerry Noble, a Texas businessman whose life has changed dramatically since the days he was second in command of a paramilitary religious group known as the Covenant, the Sword and the Arm of the Lord, said June 6 carries much significance to fringe groups that may be looking to make a statement.

"Numbers are important in the movement," Noble said. "So anything you could interpret as being symbolic would be even more important. So a symbolic date like June 6 of this year, being 666, would have the equivalence of a 9/11 date or an April 19 date."

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I am an orthodox preterist. It's articles like these that remind me of my of my exciting days as a futurist. Maybe I should forward this article to Jack Van Impe and Rexella.

[Hitch]

May as well but Rex and MaudAmy already know better.

[gharfish]

"...... ...... ......I am an orthodox preterist.Why didn't I see that coming from a mile away ? It's articles like these that remind me of my of my exciting days as a futurist.Which had you thinking what, back then ? ...this OP goofiness ?

What is the dogma that you know these "futurists" hold to, that you should think it intellectually honest to lump that monolith into this particular bag of nuts you've opened and are passing under our noses to smell ?.Maybe I should forward this article to Jack Van Impe and Rexella.Yes, that would be a real feather in the cap for your POV. When it comes to eschatology, it's their's against your's--no more complex than such a pitting.

[mrsnacks]

Why didn't I see that coming from a mile away ?

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are you wearing dark glasses or are you nearsighted.

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Yes, that would be a real feather in the cap for your POV. When it comes to eschatology, it's their's against your's--no more complex than such a pitting.
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Wow . Too much Starbucks ?

Don't get your feathers so ruffled. I was a dyed in the wool futurist along with some of my buddies for many many years and seeing the article reminded me of how I went off the deep end I went in reading between the lines in prophecy. And some of my buddies did so to . And I know I am not alone out there.

Seems so funny now that I look back on those days. Always looking either for the next prophecy book to come out with info to show that we are really closer to Jesus' coming and the rapture is really just around the corner. I recall Jack Van Impe using the term " around the corner when I heard him speak in 1983. Pretty large corner I guess.

n fact at my church I attend which is futurist in it's eschatology last week , the assistant pastor preached and said that Jesus' coming is even sooner than we expect. It looks like His return is "real soon" as he puts it. I gave a little smile.

[gharfish]

Weren't you trying to ruffle feathers ? Maybe we were both a little coffee-agitated when we posted.

You can avoid those who are 666 paranoid, or whatever, in the 'spirit' of the articles and web sites you gave up.

From what you exposed, sure enough if that is "futurism" then it is the stuff of lunatic fringe...ness (!) I recall a man who said that he was emotionally damaged by his involvement with a church that taught...this. I did feel sorry for him, but he was angry at me at the time, (so) I 'was quick to' discount his testimony.

I can understand that as a preterist, you view that stuff as definitely, seriously, damaging to the outsider's view of Christianity. Though not a preterist myself, I agree with you 100 per cent.

But futurists are not so easily characterized. Even the term is a slippery definition, for (it) varies from person to person.

Many, many people don't study the Bible enough to have a personal conviction based on their own earned self-knowledge. Sure; they let persuasive high-profile preachers tell them just what is what... But this is their own fault.

I strongly hold to conditional immortality, which is always labeled "annihilism"; all believers in such are on the one, same, page...or so we would be portrayed.

I can fully appreciate you likely cringing a bit in disgust and gritting the teeth when you see the latest T. LaHey "Left Behind" book massed on a main aisle display kiosk in your local Wal-Mart ! That eschatolgy is for you a lie, A-Z. When I saw the latest book on hell in the W-M's "spiritually" section (it was, I think: "58 Minutes in Hell !") out for sale like a hotcake, I felt my temperature rise. And then I felt very discouraged and helpless.

But, I hold back from posting that radical material--the guy whose "Divine Revelation of Hell" is so big it is in every Barnes & Noble and Borders in town--and, instead try to promote 'my case,' when appropriate, in an analysis of the relevant fought-over scriptures.

You probably do too, and this Op was just a fluke. If you are like me, you occasionally get frustrated and go on the offensive.

I understand that R.C. Sproul is a preterist. He is also a Calvinist, I think (?) I 'am' neither, but, obviously, he is a very solid theologian--impressive, for sure. I know because I listen to his radio show a couple, three, times a week.

A "futurist" you might want to focus on, instead of Van Impe for ex., is a theologian in every sense of the word on 'that side': a man named John Walvoord. You won't change your eschatology, so to speak (and you need not), but if you read him you might (maybe) come away with an understanding that there truly is something 'legit' being overshadowed by the current hype. I believe that in his serious study/analysis of the scriptures, some real credence to that general eschatological view is presented--a good case made for...

"Don't get hung-up on the overpopularity of Van Impe, and I'll try not to sweat too much the sad lack of authorship on my cause, of passion."

It's key, and very good, that we are both are of the same faith in the Lord Jesus, and the doctrinal issues we are deeply touched by can be discussed without animosity or unfairness. But, aren't we all too human...and easily tripped-up ?! (Yep)

ADD TO EDIT: Right this instant, on "Inside Edition" I hear the talking-up of the movie, The Omen, which is to be released on 06/06/06. Ah, poop.

[mrsnacks]

Hi : My first Bible class after becoming a christian was with Hal Lindsey. He was teaching a class on Bible prophecy by the way.


I was traveling earlier today with a few of my unbelieving friends who I work with. One guy asked me what my take was on June 6 , 2006. He said ," isn't that date a significant date for you christians ? " He also mentioned another christian told him something will happen on that date. "It is in the Bible "he said. My response was short and simple. No - it is not in the Bible. The Bible doesn't say anything about June 6th , 2006 specifically in regards to prophecy. My friend then had a puzzed look on his face. The others sat and listened.

This is the same friend who made fun of the many christians who were going around saying the year 2000 would be the beginning of terrible distress upon the world. One christian I knew departed the faith because of embarrassment of having spent a lot of money getting prepared as Chuck Missler was preaching at quite a few dollars a pop everywhere. And when nothing happened , no apologies for leading the church astray from chuck and the other band of bogus rich prophecy experts. My buddies spent tons of money on water and food supplies. Missler- give him his money back . Or if not the money a public apology for your false predictions . :lol:




I

[Hitch]

Yup ol Dr John was quite a guy. Singlehandedly restarted 'God's Stopped Clock of Prophecy.

Who says you cant beat faeiry tales with frog feathers...

[gharfish]

Hi : My first Bible class after becoming a christian was with Hal Lindsey. He was teaching a class on Bible prophecy by the way.


I was traveling earlier today with a few of my unbelieving friends who I work with. One guy asked me what my take was on June 6 , 2006. He said ," isn't that date a significant date for you christians ? " He also mentioned another christian told him something will happen on that date. "It is in the Bible "he said. My response was short and simple. No - it is not in the Bible. The Bible doesn't say anything about June 6th , 2006 specifically in regards to prophecy. My friend then had a puzzed look on his face. The others sat and listened.Absolutely; I agree that there isn't anything whatsoever in the Bible about that date, or even anything of much substance--nothing clear--given to help us if we are trying to unravel the (deep) significance of this 'number' 666--here, grabbed-up for a what ? ...just for the goofy sensationalism it can generate, typically for someone wanting to make a buck off it it.

Please forgive me of sloppiness, because I've been up all night here.....writing too much to a guy I'm wrangling with in one of MN's threads; that one about "The Serpent of Eden."

This is the same friend who made fun of the many christians who were going around saying the year 2000 would be the beginning of terrible distress upon the world.That's unfortunate. i remember all the hoopla back in 1988. Now that was big--bigger than the year 2000. But there were alot of people who were sure that all the world's computers were going to crash, and they were not religious-paranoid. They weren't thinking of religion at all, just the deadly Y2K bug, etc. I was worried too. The mainstream news medias had been predicting a real coming doom from the crash of alot of key world's computers, running all sorts of essential services and....whatevers (i'm tired. Rats). Then there was the fear that terrorists would use that opportunity to strike--ecoterrorism. No, terrorism to the economy, is what. The environment wasn't at risk, I don't think ! One christian I knew departed the faith because of embarrassment of having spent a lot of money getting prepared as Chuck Missler was preaching at quite a few dollars a pop everywhere. And when nothing happened , no apologies for leading the church astray from chuck and the other band of bogus rich prophecy experts. My buddies spent tons of money on water and food supplies. Missler- give him his money back . Or if not the money a public apology for your false predictions . :lol:

II've never heard of Chuck Missler, but he must have been way out there--waaay out there, indeed. that sort of thing foisted upon the public is really very QUITE (!) irresponsible at best; it's evil at worst--if the preachers are ethically, uh, "challenged," and not were innocently, um, mistaken about everything totalled-up, all the way 'from Ezekiel, to Daniel, to Revelation.'

[dizzle]

Missler is indeed way out there on some things, but the problem with him is that he is sooo personally engaging and charming and does have a very good historical knowledge of the Bible that it makes him believable on other things. His OT historical stuff is top-notch and I credit him for teaching me those things which is woefully inadequate in a lot of Christian circles. So I cannot wholeheartedly dismiss him, and I owe a great deal to him, but his prophecy stuff is :looney:

[gharfish]

.....I've never heard of Chuck Missler, but he must have been way out there--waaay out there, indeed. that sort of thing foisted upon the public is really very QUITE (!) irresponsible at best; it's evil at worst--if the preachers are ethically, uh, "challenged," and not were innocently, um, mistaken about everything totalled-up, all the way 'from Ezekiel, to Daniel, to Revelation.'This hasn't anything to do with this man, because I don't know one thing about him; however it occured to me not long after I posted (this) that we all must be on guard with any preacher's teachings on the scriptures. That is, we must really be "in the word," laboring on our own, so to best see for ourselves if what the man is teaching seems to be in accordance with what all understanding we've come to (with the same) Bible he or she is holding ...from behind the church pulpit, a radio microphone, or in front of a TV camera.

Sorry--I'm still tired. This may not be clear enough. I'm trying to say, gingerly, I guess, that when/if we are greatly deceived by a Bible teacher we must bear part of the blame. However, it is very hard to be well self-educated when it comes to "end-times prophecy." What could be more complex a subject to 'master' ?! It's dangerous ground to cross, whether with or without an aide in the form of a prophecy scholar. Sometimes we are more prone to sinking when we rely too much on the expertise (and that is definitely what would be needed !) of someone on the finest points of eschatology.

"Buyer, beware."