How long did Adam and Eve....

[Marcus1962]

live in the Garden of Eden before their fall? For Hebrew experts out there. Any hints from the language or maybe Talmudic sources?

Some corollaries to this are:
1) Did Adam and Eve age before they fell?
a) Is this pre-fall time part of the 900 yr age of Adam?
2)If they didn't age, were they in some ageless state since they lived in a perfect world?

I'm not looking for opinions unless there is some evidence to back it up. I've just always wondered.

[doogieduff]

I believe Bob Enyart has a very detailed theory about this. www.enyart.com He used all kinds of things to reach a conclusion, including women's menstrual cycles. Kinda cool for those who care. Check it out.

[Marcus1962]

I've been looking through Bob Enyart's site but can't find anything related. Can you pinpoint the location or check the web address? :shrug: :help:

[Xmansmommy]

I don't know much about BE's site but the name of the lesson which doogie is refering to is "Genesis the Fall." Hope that might help you to find it. :smile:

[doogieduff]

http://www.kgov.com/store/audio.html

"Genesis: The Fall"

[Socrates]

Yesterday @ 12:10 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=160697#post160697)
Marcus1962:

live in the Garden of Eden before their fall? For Hebrew experts out there. Any hints from the language or maybe Talmudic sources?

I have answered this at When did Satan Fall? (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=56280#post56280)


Some corollaries to this are:
1) Did Adam and Eve age before they fell?

They aged by definition because they were created in time. But they did not show the physical deterioration that results from aging in a fallen world.


a) Is this pre-fall time part of the 900 yr age of Adam?

Yes. "All the days that Adam lived ..." (Genesius 5:5).


2)If they didn't age, were they in some ageless state since they lived in a perfect world?

Again, they aged in the sense that time increased, but not in the sense of deterioration.

[darcutm]

with all due respect, who cares how long they were there?

I am curious, sincerely, why it matters how long they were there? (Is there a significance I'm missing?)

To me I only thought it mattered that they were removed and removed because of sin. Kind of a learn by their mistake sort of thing....A history of how man has gotten to the state he is...

But really if there is a good reason, I would be interested in knowing. :shrug:

IN HIM

[Marcus1962]

Thanks for the links folks.

What made me ask the question is the underlying thought, did they succumb quickly or did they live in the garden for a long time and Satan worked on them the whole time? Just curious how long they resisted the Evil One.

[mickiel]

I say this because God made Adam and Eve, and the LONGER he would have instructed them, i think the spiritually stronger they would have been. The longer you walk with God, you develop more resistance against satan. Adam was only 130 when he had Seth. Seth was born in Gen.5:3, Cain was born in Gen.4:1. One hundred and thirty years had past in just one chapter. It is conceivible that NO YEARS passed in the garden, because Adam was relitively young when Seth was born. Cain must have been born when Adam was one years old of physical time, because he was created a full grown adult, not a teenager. He was called "the man" by God, not the "boy".

[darcutm]

I don't know about that one, because the trying of your faith worketh patience...There's something to be said that happens during tests, much is learned.
It's hard to say that if God had been telling them things we know now, "The wages of sin is death"..."What's sin, Lord? and what's death?" In a sense, God told Adam all He could, in "don't eat from that tree", because Adam simply wouldn't have been able to grasp the ramifications of all that would take place or what consequences were in general...

Honestly I do agree with you, that it was a short time, not for that reason...God said "There is a tree you can't eat from" and I"m sure Adam's first thought was like any little kid's..."What tree?" I"m sure curiosity was at work the moment God mentioned it. And, also like any little kid, it wouldn't have taken long for their curiosity to get the better of them, especially with the encouragement of the devil behind them...

[mickiel]

Today @ 07:39 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=164338#post164338)
darcutm:

I don't know about that one, because the trying of your faith worketh patience...There's something to be said that happens during tests, much is learned.
It's hard to say that if God had been telling them things we know now, "The wages of sin is death"..."What's sin, Lord? and what's death?" In a sense, God told Adam all He could, in "don't eat from that tree", because Adam simply wouldn't have been able to grasp the ramifications of all that would take place or what consequences were in general...

Honestly I do agree with you, that it was a short time, not for that reason...God said "There is a tree you can't eat from" and I"m sure Adam's first thought was like any little kid's..."What tree?" I"m sure curiosity was at work the moment God mentioned it. And, also like any little kid, it wouldn't have taken long for their curiosity to get the better of them, especially with the encouragement of the devil behind them...

Although he was a physically developed man, his mind was still that of a newly created being. He will explore, experiment, and yes i agree it wouldn't take long for him to get in trouble. I totally agree that curoisty had to have been a strong motivator. Even more, i just know that God knew these things, although he instructed them not to eat, he knew they would. What God knows, he deals with, so he dealt with their mistake before they made it. Thats why Jesus was predestined to die before Adam was created. This is also evidence that God will command one thing, knowing another will happen.

Adam didnot "fall" out of the garden, he was predestined to be thrown out. Their is no fall of man, God threw them out, knew before he made them they would be thrown out, made provisions for them to be thrown out. If God wanted to, he could have NOT planted the tree with the knowledge of evil in the garden, he could have NOT allowed the serpent to ENTER the garden, GOD DID all of this, NOT Adam. So in my view, it was part of Gods PLAN that the first couple fail, and i don't think God planned for them to be in the garden long because in my view the longer they were there, the spiritually stronger they would become.

[Marcus1962]

But isn't that a byproduct of the freewill that God gives us? Certainly the Most High knew this would happen but that didn't deter Him from creating us to have relationship with Him. To have someone love you you must have freedom to choose to love or not. And after all isn't that what we were/are created for? :smile:

[mickiel]

Yesterday @ 08:47 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=164965#post164965)
Marcus1962:

But isn't that a byproduct of the freewill that God gives us? Certainly the Most High knew this would happen but that didn't deter Him from creating us to have relationship with Him. To have someone love you you must have freedom to choose to love or not. And after all isn't that what we were/are created for? :smile:

Men have taken the assumption that he has. The SIN IN THE GARDEN WAS FREE WILL TAKEN INSTEAD OF FREE WILL SUBMITTED! When Adam and Eve TOOK of the fruit, it was a direct act of will, God had commanded them NOT to eat. The first couple lived in a confined environment, they were free only to a certain EXTENT, they couldnot go outside of that environment, could not eat of ALL the trees. They must obey God. Nothing God has created is on the "outside" of his jurisdiction, they must obey. Free will is a satanic illousion that distorts the gospel of Christ. Jesus NEVER taught free will, he taught TOTAL SUBMISSION to God. There is only ONE way to deal with God, you must totally submit to him, there is no other way, and he EXPECTS nothingless. There IS NO DECESION to serve God, there is no choice. If so, explain the choice to me. Life or death? Thats no choice. Happiness or sorrow, that is not a choice, its an ultimatum. Only idiots would choose death over life.

Salvation is not based on choice, its based on the death, burial and ressurection of Christ. Its based on what Jesus HAS DONE, NOT what people decide to do. Salvation is far too important to leave to the choice of a man, too many stupid thinking people would be lost, don't you think God knows that? Do you think God is stupid or careless? Under the teaching of free will choice, if it were true , it effectively DOOMS the VAST majority of mankind. You think God foresaw and decided not to find another way to save more of his creations? Jesus would have NONE of that, Christ is a salvation machine, neither he or God are willing that ANY perish, which is why i know free will belief is worthless, it only feeds the hell desire of christians for the sinners of this world.