PDA

View Full Version : Natural Evil



Jaxb
08-05-2015, 11:48 AM
Many people divide evil into two categories: moral evil and natural evil. Moral evil is rebellion against God and natural evil consists of natural disasters such as hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes, and so on. Does the Bible call "natural disasters" a kind of evil? Does the Bible divide evil into two categories: moral and natural?

Cow Poke
08-05-2015, 12:11 PM
no

Faber
08-05-2015, 06:17 PM
Many people divide evil into two categories: moral evil and natural evil. Moral evil is rebellion against God and natural evil consists of natural disasters such as hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes, and so on. Does the Bible call "natural disasters" a kind of evil? Does the Bible divide evil into two categories: moral and natural?

I know the word, at least in English translations, is used to mean such things as harm or misfortune, things which are not evil in the moral sense. I checked the Biblehub website, and found one Hebrew word, raah, defined as "evil, misery, distress, injury". In the NASB it is translated as:


adversities (1), adversity (7), afflictions (1), calamities (1), calamity (47), disaster (22), discomfort (1), distress (2), distresses (1), evil (112), evil deeds (1), evildoer* (1), evildoing (1), evils (5), great wickedness (1), harm (19), hurt (5), ill (1), injure (2), injury (1), misery (2), misfortune (6), misfortunes (1), pain (1), situation (1), sorrow (1), trouble (9), troubles (1), very* (1), wicked (3), wicked deeds (1), wickedly (1), wickedness (39), woe (1), wretchedness (1), wrong (4), wrongdoing (1).

shunyadragon
08-08-2015, 05:02 AM
I do not believe Natural Evil exists. Nature is simply natural as God Created and intended.

seanD
08-08-2015, 04:36 PM
Many people divide evil into two categories: moral evil and natural evil. Moral evil is rebellion against God and natural evil consists of natural disasters such as hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes, and so on. Does the Bible call "natural disasters" a kind of evil? Does the Bible divide evil into two categories: moral and natural?

The book of Job seems to associate natural evil directly with Satan, at least in that particular incident. Not sure if that really answers your question though.

shunyadragon
08-10-2015, 06:01 AM
The book of Job seems to associate natural evil directly with Satan, at least in that particular incident. Not sure if that really answers your question though.

This would be an acceptable ancient view of cause and effect in the natural world when they did not have the modern knowledge of science. It is time we moved beyond the limitations of this ancient world view.

Adrift
08-10-2015, 06:32 AM
This would be an acceptable ancient view of cause and effect in the natural world when they did not have the modern knowledge of science. It is time we moved beyond the limitations of this ancient world view.

This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/announcement.php?f=46

Get lost shunya.

Jaxb
08-10-2015, 02:28 PM
I know the word, at least in English translations, is used to mean such things as harm or misfortune, things which are not evil in the moral sense. I checked the Biblehub website, and found one Hebrew word, raah, defined as "evil, misery, distress, injury". In the NASB it is translated as:

That Hebrew word has a wide range of meanings.

shunyadragon
08-12-2015, 05:22 AM
This is the forum to discuss the spectrum of views within Christianity on God's foreknowledge and election such as Calvinism, Arminianism, Molinism, Open Theism, Process Theism, Restrictivism, and Inclusivism, Christian Universalism and what these all are about anyway. Who is saved and when is/was their salvation certain? How does God exercise His sovereignty and how powerful is He? Is God timeless and immutable? Does a triune God help better understand God's love for mankind?

While this area is for the discussion of these doctrines within historic Christianity, all theists interested in discussing these areas within the presuppositions of and respect for the Christian framework are welcome to participate here. This is not the area for debate between nontheists and theists, additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream evangelical doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101 Nontheists seeking only theistic participation only in a manner that does not seek to undermine the faith of others are also welcome - but we ask that Moderator approval be obtained beforehand.

Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 or General Theistics 101 forum without such restrictions. Theists who wish to discuss these issues outside the parameters of orthodox Christian doctrine are invited to Unorthodox Theology 201.

Remember, our forum rules apply here as well. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/announcement.php?f=46

Get lost shunya.

This view is shared by some Christians, ie the Unity Church, and in the context of Christian as well as a shared Theist discussion.

If you object appeal to the moderator.

Cow Poke
08-12-2015, 06:31 AM
Get lost shunya.

He is lost. He needs to get saved.

Papa Zoom
08-12-2015, 02:58 PM
I do not believe Natural Evil exists. Nature is simply natural as God Created and intended.

Isn't calling something a natural evil a philosophical idea where we try to understand that which we observe in nature. A tornado rips through the country side in an unpopulated area and it's just a tornado. If the same tornado goes through a town and destroys homes and people are killed, we call that a natural evil. You can probably explain that better than I just did. In philosophy, the problem of evil seems to be a roadblock to believing in a good God.

seer
08-13-2015, 09:23 AM
Here is my take on natural evil:


Genesis 1:28

God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.

Subdue=kabash

to subject, subdue, force, keep under, bring into bondage
(Qal)
to bring into bondage, make subservient
to subdue, force, violate
to subdue, dominate, tread down

Here God tells Adam to subdue the earth. Kabash is a strong, military term. It seems to me that if the rest of earth was a paradise like Eden, this kind force would not be necessary. Which makes me think that the earth was wild. And that it either was wild because that old scratch the Devil infected creation somehow or God created the universe wild and desired for us to work with Him to bring about perfection and peace (i.e. the lion lying with the lamb). And that if we remained in perfect communion with God through faith, we may have had the same powers over nature that Christ did. But since the fall we lost those abilities. And now nature and the forces of nature, which we should be able to control, cause us great harm. And it all comes back to our sin. Just my two cents.

shunyadragon
08-17-2015, 01:28 PM
Isn't calling something a natural evil a philosophical idea where we try to understand that which we observe in nature. A tornado rips through the country side in an unpopulated area and it's just a tornado. If the same tornado goes through a town and destroys homes and people are killed, we call that a natural evil. You can probably explain that better than I just did. In philosophy, the problem of evil seems to be a roadblock to believing in a good God.

The concept of "the problem of evil being a roadblock to believing in God," would be more of theological statement than a philosophical statement. This was the prevalent belief by ancient peoples who did not understand the cause and effect of nature and natural events.

Calling a natural event 'evil' would be calling something natural having the source or force of evil, or being against God in one way or another.

If a tornado occurred as you describe it, I would call it a tragic unfortunate natural event, which occurs only through natural causes and not evil causes.

Jaxb
08-19-2015, 09:46 AM
According to the KJV, Isaiah 45:7 says, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." According to the NASB, Isaiah 45:7 says, "The One forming light and creating darkness, causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these."

The Hebrew word translated as "evil" in the KJV is the word "rah." This Hebrew word is translated as "calamity" in the NASB. Since the Hebrew word "rah" can be translated as "evil" or "calamity", is this the reason why some people call natural disasters "natural evil"?

dacristoy
08-25-2015, 08:14 AM
I do not believe Natural Evil exists. Nature is simply natural as God Created and intended.
I find that a pointed definition of evil is hard to define. But if we allow causation (that which results when evil is present) to define evil, we find that it always results in discomfort to the one experiencing it. Therefore evil does exist as a moral aa well as a natural entity...

shunyadragon
09-05-2015, 05:10 PM
I find that a pointed definition of evil is hard to define. But if we allow causation (that which results when evil is present) to define evil, we find that it always results in discomfort to the one experiencing it. Therefore evil does exist as a moral aa well as a natural entity...

Evil is usually clearly defined in traditional Christianity.

I do not buy the argument that causation? does result in evil is present or is real. There is no evidence that natural cause and effect in our world whether good nor bad is an effective argument for the existence of evil.

shunyadragon
09-05-2015, 05:15 PM
According to the KJV, Isaiah 45:7 says, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." According to the NASB, Isaiah 45:7 says, "The One forming light and creating darkness, causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these."

The Hebrew word translated as "evil" in the KJV is the word "rah." This Hebrew word is translated as "calamity" in the NASB. Since the Hebrew word "rah" can be translated as "evil" or "calamity", is this the reason why some people call natural disasters "natural evil"?

It is possible that citations such as these are used to justify that evil exists, but these are from an ancient world view that did not understand the natural cause and effect of calamities or tragic events. The viewed a world where God(s) caused calamities often believed in response to the failure of humans to do God's will or the sins an disobedience of humans.

Time to give up the hosts of ancient thinking.

pereynol
09-19-2015, 03:05 PM
It is possible that citations such as these are used to justify that evil exists, but these are from an ancient world view that did not understand the natural cause and effect of calamities or tragic events. The viewed a world where God(s) caused calamities often believed in response to the failure of humans to do God's will or the sins an disobedience of humans.

Time to give up the hosts of ancient thinking.

What an interesting series of things to assert! How do you personally sort out the interplay of categories like nature, causality, existence, and evil? Also, I wonder if there actually is any monolithic consensus so novel on these matters within contemporary thought that has no discernible roots in "ancient thinking" and could really be said to illuminate us once we jettison all our supposedly ancient cognitive prejudices....

seer
09-21-2015, 06:33 AM
What an interesting series of things to assert! How do you personally sort out the interplay of categories like nature, causality, existence, and evil? Also, I wonder if there actually is any monolithic consensus so novel on these matters within contemporary thought that has no discernible roots in "ancient thinking" and could really be said to illuminate us once we jettison all our supposedly ancient cognitive prejudices....

Hey pereynol, long time no see! Hope you are doing well.

pereynol
09-23-2015, 09:59 PM
Hey pereynol, long time no see! Hope you are doing well.

Good to hear from you, seer! I've been well---thanks for asking. I haven't been online recently as much as in days gone by. I certainly hope you've been faring well and blessed....

seer
09-24-2015, 12:34 PM
Good to hear from you, seer! I've been well---thanks for asking. I haven't been online recently as much as in days gone by. I certainly hope you've been faring well and blessed....

Yes, I'm older, but no wiser - or richer for that matter...:wink:

GoBahnsen
12-12-2015, 03:31 PM
Many people divide evil into two categories: moral evil and natural evil. Moral evil is rebellion against God and natural evil consists of natural disasters such as hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes, and so on. Does the Bible call "natural disasters" a kind of evil? Does the Bible divide evil into two categories: moral and natural?I can't remember the text, but God talks about using natural disasters as "sending evil" upon His enemies or the enemies of Israel back in the day. I suppose the original language is going to come into the discussion.

The world is still "fallen". Natural disasters won't be a part of the new earth that's coming. So I think it's safe to say that they are bad and not a part of God's original habitat for man. Call em evil then. That's my two cents.

shunyadragon
12-13-2015, 05:49 AM
What an interesting series of things to assert! How do you personally sort out the interplay of categories like nature, causality, existence, and evil? Also, I wonder if there actually is any monolithic consensus so novel on these matters within contemporary thought that has no discernible roots in "ancient thinking" and could really be said to illuminate us once we jettison all our supposedly ancient cognitive prejudices....

No assertions at all and no need to sort out the categories like nature, causality, existence, and evil. The Bible literature is clear many places in the Bible attribute the cause of natural disasters to the wrath of God(s) for the disobedience of humans like most ancient cultures. The lacked the knowledge of modern science to simply understand that natural disasters and events have natural causes.

On the other hand, it is a theological assertion, with no evidence, that God deliberately causes natural disasters, and that natural evil even exists. For example; The claim of the idealistic unreal claim that our existence was free form evil, Adam and Eve were without sin, suffering and death before the 'Original Sin' and the 'Fall.' After the 'Fall' evil pervades with suffering and death, and humanity was cursed with the stain of 'Original Sin.' These beliefs that we inherit the sins of our ancestors, or even our immediate parents is common in many ancient cultures.

I believe that jettisoning superstitious 'ancient myths' that form the foundation of traditional Christian doctrines and beliefs will free billions of human from the burdens of myth, and accept science. The evidence of the 'problems' of the attitudes of many traditional Christians concerning science today and history clearly demonstrates this.