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Scorching Wizard
08-05-2015, 02:37 PM
Deuteronomy 8:3 contains one of the Torah's most famous lines: "Man cannot live by bread alone". Although these words are quoted frequently, the continuation of the verse is equally important: "...but by all that proceeds from the mouth of G-d." What this verse is telling us is that since man cannot live on bread alone, he will either fill that extra space with real meaning - a relationship with His Creator, or he will look for substitutes to that meaning, such as food.

Human beings, unlike animals, need "meaning" in life. The Kabbalists explain this as one of the parallels between the material and spiritual worlds: This drives us to want more than just bread. Even though it is a poor substitute for real fulfillment and meaning, food is often the focus of our quest for meaning.

Notice that the more meaningful a day you're having, the less your desire for food. We have all experienced days full of excitement and fulfillment when our desire to eat just seemed to disappear. When life is fulfilling, then we look less to food for satisfaction. We have something other than bread to be nourished by.

On the other hand, we've all had depressing days where we desired to eat nonstop. Realize what this means: If you use food as a stimulant, it's because life itself isn't very stimulating. Unfortunately, your craving for meaning cannot be fulfilled as easily as it is to order a hamburger. Spiritual needs require much more time to fulfill than the three minutes it takes to order a burger and fries.

There is an easy way to gauge your spiritual level: If you need food to elevate your mood, you may be failing to fulfill your spiritual needs. Next time you find yourself looking to food to pick you up, hesitate a little. Try to define what it is you really want to achieve. Using food in an attempt to obtain real meaning and fulfillment will only lead you further away from a spiritually fulfilling place. Instead by leading with your mind and not your stomach, by thinking about what is truly bothering you and what you are truly looking for, you can avoid the quick and empty "fix" that food offers, and instead find the deeper meaning for which you long.

Adapted from Rabbi Stephen Baars

shunyadragon
08-08-2015, 05:58 AM
I like your reference. I simply view it, as a rejection of 'Materialism' as fulfilling the needs of humanity.

Scorching Wizard
08-10-2015, 08:46 AM
Yes, the rabbi wrote about bread, but the concept can apply to any materialistic thing.

shunyadragon
08-13-2015, 06:55 AM
Yes, the rabbi wrote about bread, but the concept can apply to any materialistic thing.

. . . but not necessarily totally a materialistic thing. A spiritual interpretation, would not necessarily led to the conclusion proposed by Christians.

Scorching Wizard
08-13-2015, 10:54 AM
. . . but not necessarily totally a materialistic thing. A spiritual interpretation, would not necessarily led to the conclusion proposed by Christians.

I have no idea (and no interest) how the Christians interpret it. I found the article interesting because the first half gets quoted often, but not the second half of the sentence.

One Bad Pig
08-13-2015, 11:10 AM
I have no idea (and no interest) how the Christians interpret it. I found the article interesting because the first half gets quoted often, but not the second half of the sentence.
I have no idea what Shunya is referring to. As a Christian, I have no disagreement with your OP. The verse is popular because Jesus quoted it - but he quoted the whole thing, not just the first half.

shunyadragon
08-13-2015, 08:52 PM
I have no idea (and no interest) how the Christians interpret it. I found the article interesting because the first half gets quoted often, but not the second half of the sentence.

I was not referring to how the Christians interpret it. Taking the whole longer reference I was simply proposing the fact that there may be more possible interpretations from the Jewish perspective.

3 He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your ancestors had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord. 4 Your clothes did not wear out and your feet did not swell during these forty years. 5 Know then in your heart that as a man disciplines his son, so the Lord your God disciplines you.

I do not think my thinking is far from yours. Possibly; Spiritual the bread is symbolic of God's Laws.

Scorching Wizard
08-14-2015, 09:01 AM
I was not referring to how the Christians interpret it. Taking the whole longer reference I was simply proposing the fact that there may be more possible interpretations from the Jewish perspective.

Oh, for sure! Every parsha has multiple meanings. We regularly read and re-read Torah to get new meaning from it, to apply to new situations. Multiple Rabbis get multiple individual sermons from the same book.

shunyadragon
08-16-2015, 10:18 AM
I have no idea what Shunya is referring to. As a Christian, I have no disagreement with your OP. The verse is popular because Jesus quoted it - but he quoted the whole thing, not just the first half.

Scorching Wizard understands what I am referring to.

One Bad Pig
08-16-2015, 08:32 PM
Scorching Wizard understands what I am referring to.
No, he said he doesn't care about what you're referring to (i.e., some alleged Christian interpretation).

shunyadragon
08-19-2015, 10:09 AM
No, he said he doesn't care about what you're referring to (i.e., some alleged Christian interpretation).

That is not what he said in his response to me.

One Bad Pig
08-19-2015, 10:55 AM
That is not what he said in his response to me.
:shrug: Whatever you want to think, shunya.

robrecht
08-19-2015, 11:34 AM
. . . but not necessarily totally a materialistic thing. A spiritual interpretation, would not necessarily led to the conclusion proposed by Christians.

I was not referring to how the Christians interpret it. Taking the whole longer reference I was simply proposing the fact that there may be more possible interpretations from the Jewish perspective. ... What did you mean by "the conclusion proposed by Christians" if not in fact "how the Christians interpret it"? Feel free to PM me or start a new thread since Scorching Wizard is not interested in this.

shunyadragon
08-20-2015, 12:55 PM
:shrug: Whatever you want to think, shunya.

It is not a matter of what I think. Just quote him what he said to me.

shunyadragon
08-20-2015, 01:19 PM
What did you mean by "the conclusion proposed by Christians" if not in fact "how the Christians interpret it"? Feel free to PM me or start a new thread since Scorching Wizard is not interested in this.

I do not think it is a problem posting it here as a comparative interpretation of the Christian view. It is not 'necessarily' very different except Christians tend to interpret it in relation to NT citations.



Deuteronomy 8:3
And he humbled thee, or afflicted thee with want of bread:

and suffered thee to hunger; that there might be an opportunity of showing his mercy, and exerting his power:

and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know;

a sort of food they had never seen before, and when they saw it, knew not what it was, but asked, what is it? ( Exodus 16:15 ) . Thus the Lord humbles his people by his Spirit and grace, and brings them to see themselves to be in want, and creates in them desires after spiritual food, and feeds them with Christ the hidden manna, whose person, office, and grace, they were before ignorant of:

. . . that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only; which is the stay and staff of life, and which strengthens man's heart, and is the main support of it, being the ordinary and usual food man lives upon, and is put for all the rest:

but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live: . . . not so much by the food he eats as by the blessing of God upon it, and who can make one sort of food as effectual for such a purpose as another; for every creature of God is good being received with thankfulness, and sanctified by the word and prayer; and particularly he could and did make such light food as manna was to answer all the purposes of solid bread for the space of forty years in the wilderness; the Targum of Jonathan is,

``but by all which is created by the Word of the Lord is the life of man;''

which seems to agree with 1Ti 4:3,4
for the meaning is not that the Israelites in the wilderness, and when come into the land of Canaan, should not live by corporeal food only, but by obedience to the commands of God, by means of which they should continue under his protection, which was indeed their case; nor that man does not live in his body only by bread, but in his soul also by the word of God, and the doctrines of it, which is certainly true; spiritual men live a spiritual life on Christ, the Word of God, and bread of life, and on the Gospel and the truths of it, the wholesome words of our Lord Jesus, and are nourished up with the words of faith and sound doctrine, by means of which their spiritual life is supported and maintained; but this is not what is here intended.

robrecht
08-20-2015, 01:55 PM
I do not think it is a problem posting it here as a comparative interpretation of the Christian view. It is not 'necessarily' very different except Christians tend to interpret it in relation to NT citations.



Deuteronomy 8:3
And he humbled thee, or afflicted thee with want of bread:

and suffered thee to hunger; that there might be an opportunity of showing his mercy, and exerting his power:

and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know;

a sort of food they had never seen before, and when they saw it, knew not what it was, but asked, what is it? ( Exodus 16:15 ) . Thus the Lord humbles his people by his Spirit and grace, and brings them to see themselves to be in want, and creates in them desires after spiritual food, and feeds them with Christ the hidden manna, whose person, office, and grace, they were before ignorant of:

. . . that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only; which is the stay and staff of life, and which strengthens man's heart, and is the main support of it, being the ordinary and usual food man lives upon, and is put for all the rest:

but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live: . . . not so much by the food he eats as by the blessing of God upon it, and who can make one sort of food as effectual for such a purpose as another; for every creature of God is good being received with thankfulness, and sanctified by the word and prayer; and particularly he could and did make such light food as manna was to answer all the purposes of solid bread for the space of forty years in the wilderness; the Targum of Jonathan is,

``but by all which is created by the Word of the Lord is the life of man;''

which seems to agree with 1Ti 4:3,4
for the meaning is not that the Israelites in the wilderness, and when come into the land of Canaan, should not live by corporeal food only, but by obedience to the commands of God, by means of which they should continue under his protection, which was indeed their case; nor that man does not live in his body only by bread, but in his soul also by the word of God, and the doctrines of it, which is certainly true; spiritual men live a spiritual life on Christ, the Word of God, and bread of life, and on the Gospel and the truths of it, the wholesome words of our Lord Jesus, and are nourished up with the words of faith and sound doctrine, by means of which their spiritual life is supported and maintained; but this is not what is here intended.
So, by "the conclusion proposed by Christians" you did in fact mean "how the Christians interpret it". Why did you deny that to Scorching Wizard?


I was not referring to how the Christians interpret it. ...

shunyadragon
08-20-2015, 08:37 PM
So, by "the conclusion proposed by Christians" you did in fact mean "how the Christians interpret it". Why did you deny that to Scorching Wizard?

I consider the difference in wording trivial.

robrecht
08-20-2015, 08:57 PM
I consider the difference in wording trivial.
Exactly my point.

shunyadragon
08-20-2015, 09:21 PM
Exactly my point.

Then why bother?


So, by "the conclusion proposed by Christians" you did in fact mean "how the Christians interpret it". Why did you deny that to Scorching W

I did not deny anything.

robrecht
08-20-2015, 10:17 PM
Then why bother?

I did not deny anything.
You genuinely believe that, don't you?

siam
08-21-2015, 01:36 AM
@Scorching Wizard
"food is often the focus of our quest for meaning. "

I have heard that in Jewish Holy days, food that is served has symbolic meanings? There is also the Kosher slaughter that adds an element of respect and sacredness to food...what are your thoughts on this? (use of food to remember G-d's mercy?)

Scorching Wizard
08-21-2015, 02:13 PM
That fragment of a sentence you posted is out of context.


What this verse is telling us is that since man cannot live on bread alone, he will either fill that extra space with real meaning - a relationship with His Creator, or he will look for substitutes to that meaning, such as food.

Human beings, unlike animals, need "meaning" in life. The Kabbalists explain this as one of the parallels between the material and spiritual worlds: This drives us to want more than just bread. Even though it is a poor substitute for real fulfillment and meaning, food is often the focus of our quest for meaning.

The point of the article is that some people use food in place of spirituality. On our holidays, food doesn't take the place of connecting with G-d. It is part of the rituals and prayers that we use to connect with G-d.