Gary DeMar Denies the Prophecies of Amos

[Mickey]

Gary DeMar signed the "Wittenberg Door","An Open Letter to Evangelicals and Other Interested Parties:The People of God, the Land of Israel, and the Impartiality of the Gospel".

That letter states:

"The present secular state of Israel, however, is not an authentic or prophetic realization of the Messianic kingdom of Jesus Christ. Furthermore, a day should not be anticipated in which Christ's kingdom will manifest Jewish distinctives, whether by its location in "the land," by its constituency, or by its ceremonial institutions and practices."

http://www.knoxseminary.org/Prospective/Faculty/WittenbergDoor/index.html

This statement is contradicted by the following prophecy of Amos in regard to "in that day":

" In that day will I raise up again the tabernacle of David that is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up...That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who does all these things....And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God" (Septuigant; Amos 9:11-12;KJV;Amos 9:14,15).).


Of course there will some who will deny that the words "in that day" are in regard to when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth,but James knew that those words in Amos refers to His return.James quoted Amos 9 from the Septuigant,and he put in His own words to replace the words "In that day",and those words refer to the return of Jesus Christ:

"After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things" (Acts15:16).

Despite the wisdom of James there are those who will refuse to believe the prophecy of Amos because they place more faith in the traditions that men have invented than they do in the sure Word of God.

In Christ,
Mickey

[Hitch]

Gary DeMar signed the "Wittenberg Door","An Open Letter to Evangelicals and Other Interested Parties:The People of God, the Land of Israel, and the Impartiality of the Gospel".

That letter states:

"The present secular state of Israel, however, is not an authentic or prophetic realization of the Messianic kingdom of Jesus Christ. Furthermore, a day should not be anticipated in which Christ's kingdom will manifest Jewish distinctives, whether by its location in "the land," by its constituency, or by its ceremonial institutions and practices."

http://www.knoxseminary.org/Prospective/Faculty/WittenbergDoor/index.html

This statement is contradicted by the following prophecy of Amos in regard to "in that day":

" In that day will I raise up again the tabernacle of David that is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up...That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who does all these things....And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God" (Septuigant; Amos 9:11-12;KJV;Amos 9:14,15).).


Of course there will some who will deny that the words "in that day" are in regard to when the Lord Jesus returns to the earth,but James knew that those words in Amos refers to His return.James quoted Amos 9 from the Septuigant,and he put in His own words to replace the words "In that day",and those words refer to the return of Jesus Christ:

"After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things" (Acts15:16).

Despite the wisdom of James there are those who will refuse to believe the prophecy of Amos because they place more faith in the traditions that men have invented than they do in the sure Word of God.

In Christ,
MickeyIt never takes long for futurists to descend into falsehood. Thanx for playing your part M

[spiritmech]

It never takes long for futurists to descend into falsehood. Thanx for playing your part M
Yeah. Aim, fire, miss.
sm

[Mickey]

It never takes long for futurists to descend into falsehood. Thanx for playing your part M
Seems as if all we get from the "orthodox" preterists these days is false accusations and name-calling.

Perhaps you would like to back up your claim with evidence?

Where is it?

[Mickey]

Yeah. Aim, fire, miss.
sm
sm,

Where did I say anything in my initial post that was a "falsehood"?

Here is your chance to prove it.

[Hitch]

sm,

Where did I say anything in my initial post that was a "falsehood"?

Here is your chance to prove it.Gary DeMar Denies the Prophecies of Amos


Right here in bold, and referring to a sniveling liar as a sniveling liar does not amount to name calling.

So take the last word M I wont bother answerring your lies and gross misrepresentations. I doubt whether anyone else will continue the troll feeding program.

[Sheepdog]

isn't this really the same mistake the Jews made: thinking that the Messiah was to come to be an earthly leader of a political kingdom? even now some Christians hope for a Second Coming where, sure enough, Jesus will be the earthly leader over a political kingdom.


the more that things change, the more they stay the same.

[Mickey]

Gary DeMar Denies the Prophecies of Amos
Right here in bold, and referring to a sniveling liar as a sniveling liar does not amount to name calling.
Gary DeMar put his name to a letter that says:

"The present secular state of Israel, however, is not an authentic or prophetic realization of the Messianic kingdom of Jesus Christ. Furthermore, a day should not be anticipated in which Christ's kingdom will manifest Jewish distinctives, whether by its location in "the land," by its constituency, or by its ceremonial institutions and practices."

The words of Amos and James make it abiundantly clear that there is in fact a day when Christ's kingdom will be in regard to the promised land that was given to Israel:

And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God."

Since DeMar signed the letter it is obvious that he does not believe that Israel will have the land after the Lord Jesus returns.
So take the last word M I wont bother answerring your lies and gross misrepresentations. I doubt whether anyone else will continue the troll feeding program.
All you did was to make false charges and then fail to back them up.All you prove is that when you cannot offer a intelligent refutation of anything you revert to name-calling.

[Mickey]

isn't this really the same mistake the Jews made: thinking that the Messiah was to come to be an earthly leader of a political kingdom?
That is what the Apostles believed after they had spent considerable time with the resurrected Jesus Christ when He expounded things in regard to the kingdom:

"To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God....When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" (Acts1:3,6).

Of course there are some who think that they know more than the Apostles about the kingdom,even though they had been taught the things of the kingdom by the Lord Jesus Himself.
even now some Christians hope for a Second Coming where, sure enough, Jesus will be the earthly leader over a political kingdom.

the more that things change, the more they stay the same.
The things that remain the same is that there will always be those who are arrogant enough to think that they know more about the kingdom that the Apostles did.

[Sheepdog]

That is what the Apostles believed after they had spent considerable time with the resurrected Jesus Christ when He expounded things in regard to the kingdom:

"To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God....When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" (Acts1:3,6).

Of course there are some who think that they know more than the Apostles about the kingdom,even though they had been taught the things of the kingdom by the Lord Jesus Himself.

i'm relatively unconcerned about what the Apostles knew or didn't about the Kingdom, since we have Jesus' own words. (John 18:36). but at best, all that question shows is that, having heard what the need to know about the Kingdom of God, they were curious about national Israel.


Jesus' answer is telling: (7) He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. (8) But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

The only way verse 8 would be pertinant to 7 would be if Jesus saw the spread of the gospel as "the restoration of Israel."

The things that remain the same is that there will always be those who are arrogant enough to think that they know more about the kingdom that the Apostles did.

rather, what truly remains the same is those who believe they know more about the Kingdom than Jesus did.

[Mickey]

i'm relatively unconcerned about what the Apostles knew or didn't about the Kingdom, since we have Jesus' own words. (John 18:36).
The Lord's words in that verse do not say that there will not be a kingdom set up on the earth in the future:

"...but now is my kingdom not from here" (Jn.18:36).

And if there was to be no kingdom set up on the earth why would the Lord Jesus tell His disciples to pray in this manner?:

"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven" (Mt.6:10).
but at best, all that question shows is that, having heard what the need to know about the Kingdom of God, they were curious about national Israel.
They were curious whether the kingdom would be restored to Israel at that time.And since they had been with the Lord Jesus while He explained to them the "things pertaining to the kingdom" then they would know whether or not the kingdom was going to be restored to Israel.And they believed that it would.
Jesus' answer is telling: (7) He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. (8) But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

The only way verse 8 would be pertinant to 7 would be if Jesus saw the spread of the gospel as "the restoration of Israel."
The Lord Jesus did not tell them that they were wrong in expecting the kingdom to be restored to Israel but instead only told them that they were not to know the time when it would happen.
rather, what truly remains the same is those who believe they know more about the Kingdom than Jesus did.
It is clear from what you said about John 18:36 that you do not understand what the Lord Jesus said there.

[Hitch]

I wonder whether Mickey literalizes the 'stars of heaven ' passages as well..

[spiritmech]

sm,

Where did I say anything in my initial post that was a "falsehood"?

Here is your chance to prove it.

Your critique misrepresents preterism. There's nothing in preterism that excludes the promises. They just happen *after* the 2nd coming.
sm

[A Cup of No]

i'm relatively unconcerned about what the Apostles knew or didn't about the Kingdom, since we have Jesus' own words. (John 18:36). but at best, all that question shows is that, having heard what the need to know about the Kingdom of God, they were curious about national Israel.


Jesus' answer is telling: (7) He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. (8) But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

The only way verse 8 would be pertinant to 7 would be if Jesus saw the spread of the gospel as "the restoration of Israel."



rather, what truly remains the same is those who believe they know more about the Kingdom than Jesus did.

don't waste your time with mickey. It's fruitless and frustrating.

[Mickey]

Your critique misrepresents preterism. There's nothing in preterism that excludes the promises. They just happen *after* the 2nd coming.
sm
sm,

The promise of which I spoke is in regard to the promise to restore the land to Israel.

And the letter which DeMar signed denies that the Jews will have the land after the Lord returns:

"The present secular state of Israel, however, is not an authentic or prophetic realization of the Messianic kingdom of Jesus Christ. Furthermore, a day should not be anticipated in which Christ's kingdom will manifest Jewish distinctives, whether by its location in "the land," by its constituency, or by its ceremonial institutions and practices."

"A day shall not be anticipated..."

Amos makes it plain that we can anticipate a day when the Jews will have the land during the kingdom.And how can the Jews be restored to the land after the second coming according to preterism?

The letter DeMar signed says:

"Instead, this present age will come to a climactic conclusion with the arrival of the final, eternal phase of the kingdom of the Messiah. At that time, all eyes, even of those who pierced him, will see the King in his glory."

The last sentance has a footnote that says:

"Revelation 1:7, "Behold, he is coming with clouds, and every eye will see him, even they who pierced him."

I thought that the preterists taught that Rev.1:7 was fulfilled in 70 AD.Evidently DeMar believes that Rev.1:7 has not yet been fulfilled.

In Christ,
Mickey

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

Mickey's method:

A) That guy does not agree with ME about what that prophecy means.
B) Therefore that guy denies that the prophecy is true.

I guess that means that since Mickey disagrees with me about what the Bible means, he denies that what the Bible says is true.

Mickey, why do you deny that what the Bible says is true?

[Mickey]

Mickey's method:

A) That guy does not agree with ME about what that prophecy means.
B) Therefore that guy denies that the prophecy is true.
You really are unable to reason out of the Scriptures.

According to the prophecies of Amos the Jews will have their promised land after the Lord Jesus returns.The letter that DeMar signed denies this.

You did not address even a single point which I made in my initial post.Instead you just make up something that is not true.

In Christ,
Mickey

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

Mickey, I addressed your whole method in my post. I am sorry you don't realise that.

[dizzle]

:rofl:

Oh but nearly everyone else does.

[Sheepdog]

The Lord's words in that verse do not say that there will not be a kingdom set up on the earth in the future:

"...but now is my kingdom not from here" (Jn.18:36).

well there are an infinite many things Jesus didn't say in this verse. Let's focus on what he does say.

Jesus replied, "My kingdom is not from this world."

No temporal indicator the first time Jesus speaks of his kingdom. The second time he says it, with your "but now" as redundancy for emphasis.

And if there was to be no kingdom set up on the earth why would the Lord Jesus tell His disciples to pray in this manner?:

"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven" (Mt.6:10).

Why not? "in earth" is qualifying "the will be done," not "they kingdom come."

They were curious whether the kingdom would be restored to Israel at that time.And since they had been with the Lord Jesus while He explained to them the "things pertaining to the kingdom" ...

Wrong. He explained the thinks pertaining to the Kingdom of God. They ask about the kingdom of Israel. Prima facie, we have two distinct kingdoms.

you should be careful not make such gross and stupid errors when dealing with Scripture.

The Lord Jesus did not tell them that they were wrong in expecting the kingdom to be restored to Israel...

again, there are a lot of things Jesus did not tell them.

... but instead only told them that they were not to know the time when it would happen.

He didn't even say that much. He simply says they are not to know the times and dates that God has set. It's ambiguous, and knowing Jesus it was intentionally so. It could be interpreted as you think, and it could not.



don't waste your time with mickey. It's fruitless and frustrating.

i probably won't considering how his credibility was slayed on his own sword (cf. comments on Mt. 6:10 above). I'm just having fun with him. Trolls can be highly amusing if you don't take them seriously.

[Mickey]

well there are an infinite many things Jesus didn't say in this verse. Let's focus on what he does say.

Jesus replied, "My kingdom is not from this world."

No temporal indicator the first time Jesus speaks of his kingdom. The second time he says it, with your "but now" as redundancy for emphasis.
The words mean exactly what they say.The Lord Jesus said at the present time (now) that His kingdom is not from here.

"...but now is my kingdom not from here" (Jn.18:36).

But you attempt to use this verse to prove that He said that His kingdom is not an earthly kingdom,not now nor in the future.But that is not what He said.

I said:
And if there was to be no kingdom set up on the earth why would the Lord Jesus tell His disciples to pray in this manner?:

"Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven" (Mt.6:10).
To which you reply:
Why not? "in earth" is qualifying "the will be done," not "they kingdom come."
So when they prayed asking that "Thy kingdom come" they were not asking for the kingdom to "come" to earth?

Where were they asking for the kingdom to "come"?
Wrong. He explained the thinks pertaining to the Kingdom of God. They ask about the kingdom of Israel. Prima facie, we have two distinct kingdoms.

you should be careful not make such gross and stupid errors when dealing with Scripture.No,they asked if the kingdom was to be restored to Israel at that time.

And there is little doubt which kingdom they were referring to:

"He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever. According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David" (2Sam.7:13,16,17).

This is in regard to the Davidic covenant,and it is in regard to the throne of David.And according to the Scriptures it is that throne which is the Lord Jesus' throne.

" He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David"(Lk.1:32).

This Throne is an "earthly" throne:

" Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly"(1Ki.2:12).

In the Kingdom men will go to Jerusalem to worship Him:

" And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one…And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain"(Zech.14:9,17).

The following verses also demonstrate that the Lord Jesus will rule from David’s Throne in Jerusalem:

" At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem"(Jer.3:17).

" It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The LORD is there"(Ez.48:35).

" And he said unto me, Son of man, the place of my throne, and the place of the soles of my feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel for ever, and my holy name, shall the house of Israel no more defile, neither they, nor their kings, by their whoredom, nor by the carcases of their kings in their high places"(Ez.43:7).

THe preterists have Him reigning now despite the fact that the Lord Jesus Himself says that He is now at the throne of His Father and not His own throne.

In Christ,
Mickey

[Mickey]

Let us look at Dee Dee's comments on the following verse:

"After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things" (Acts15:16).

She says:
Another interesting passage is in Acts 15:16:


After this I will return and will build again the tabernacle of David which has fallen down; and I will build again its ruins, and I will set it up.Peter once again states that the rebuilding of David's house and tabernacle is fulfilled then!! It was not an earthly tabernacle, just as it is not an earthly throne.

http://www.preteristsite.com/plain/warrenend.html#matt25

First of all,Dee Dee makes a mistake when she attributes the quote to Peter when it was actually James who quoted the passage from Amos.

Then she says that Peter says that "the rebuilding of David's house and tabernacle is fulfilled then!!"

That is not what James said.Instead he says that the verses are in regard to when the Lord Jesus returns:

"After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things" (Acts15:16).

This completely destroys Dee Dee's teaching.She has no place in her eschatology for the rebuilding of the tabernacle of David.

But what the heck! Perhaps this is just another case of "already/not yet".

That comes in handy when certain events are misplaced in her eschatology.

In Christ,
Mickey

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

James cited this text in Amos as evidence that Gentiles are NOW - not in the future but NOW - included as part of God's people, Mickey.

If you relegate this to the future, then the Gentiles must be booted out of the church.

[Mickey]

James cited this text in Amos as evidence that Gentiles are NOW - not in the future but NOW - included as part of God's people, Mickey.
James replaced the words of Amos where he said "In that day" with the words "After this I will return".

He is speaking of the return of the Lord Jesus,Who had left them when He ascended into heaven.

The discussion leading up to this quote was whether or not the Gentiles had to keep the law and be circumcised,therefore becoming a part of Israel.

James said that the Scriptures reveal that when the Lord Jesus returns then "the residue of men" and "all the nations" will seek the Lord.Thereore by this verse James concluded that the Gentiles did not have to join the nation of Israel because in the future the "nations" will be seeking the Lord.

In other words,James was saying that Gentile salvation apart from the law and apart from being of Israel does not contradict the Old Testament prophets in regard to when the Lord Jesus returns.
If you relegate this to the future, then the Gentiles must be booted out of the church.
I cannot understand how you could possibly come to this conclusion.If you relegate the fulfillment to the time when James said those words then who is James speaking about "returning"?

James used the Greek word "anastrepso",which means a bodily return,as at Acts 5:22.

In Christ,
Mickey

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

"anastrepso" just means "return." it can be used for bodily return, or it could be used to refer toGod returning to His people to restore them, which has no bodily connotations.

In context, the question is whether Gentiles needed to become Jews to be part of the church. That's the context we must work within. James answered in the negative. RIGHT NOW Gentiles can be part of the church without becoming Jews. RIGHT now, and not at some future time. Why? Because this agrees with the prophecy: God has come and restored the tabernacle of David, at which time, according to prophecy, the nations will be admitted.

There's just no wiggle room for you Mickey. Either this has been fulfilled, or Gentiles must become circumcised and become Jews in order to come into the church.

Take your pick.

[Mickey]

"anastrepso" just means "return." it can be used for bodily return, or it could be used to refer toGod returning to His people to restore them, which has no bodily connotations.
When the Lord Jesus ascended into heaven the Apostles were told that they would see Him "come in like manner as ye have seen Him go into heaven" (Acts1:11).

So they would be expecting to see Him return in as they saw Him go into heaven.They "saw" Him ascend into heaven and they will "see" Him when He returns.So when James said the words "After this I will return" he was obviously speaking of a bodily return.

Also,I see no evidence that God returned to His people after James said those words.In fact,from that point on there is no evidence that Israel was restored.

And the first words of the prophect speaks of restoring the "tabernacle of David",and it is the Lord Jesus Who is appointed to sit upon the throne of David.So all the evidence points to a future return of the Lord Jesus to sit upon the throne of David.
In context, the question is whether Gentiles needed to become Jews to be part of the church. That's the context we must work within. James answered in the negative. RIGHT NOW Gentiles can be part of the church without becoming Jews. RIGHT now, and not at some future time. Why?
The middle wall of partion between the Jew and the Gentile was broken down at the Cross and both Jews and Gentiles are baptized into the Body of Christ by the Holy Spirit.So as long as the Body of Christ remains on the earth there will always be a place for Gentile Christians.
Because this agrees with the prophecy: God has come and restored the tabernacle of David, at which time, according to prophecy, the nations will be admitted.
The tabernacle of David has not been restored.The throne of David will sit in that tabernacle and the Lord Jesus will sit upon that throne:

"And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness" (Isa.16:5).

The tabernacle is on the earth and the throne of David will be on the earth.The Lord Jesus tells those in the Church that they will sit with Him at His throne (3:21) and they will reign with Him on the earth:

"And hast made us unto our God a kingdom of priests: and we shall reign on the earth" (Rev.5:10).

The Lord Jesus will rule from David’s Throne in Jerusalem:
" At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem"(Jer.3:17).

" It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The LORD is there"(Ez.48:35).There's just no wiggle room for you Mickey. Either this has been fulfilled, or Gentiles must become circumcised and become Jews in order to come into the church.
The Scriptures tell us that the middle wall of partition was broken down at the Cross and now both Jews and Gentiles are being made members of the Church,which is His body.You have provided no Scriptual evidence to support what you have said.

There is no evidence that God has returned and restored the tabernacle of David and there is no evidence that this must first be done before Gentiles could be members of the Church,which is His Body.

In Christ,
Mickey

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

So Mickey, if I understand you correctly, you have portrayed James as quoting a Scripture that referred to an even in the distant future, but sureptitiously using it to trick people into thinking that its description of the relationship of Gentiles to God's people should be applied now anyway.

The only thing I fail to understand is why you're happy to impugn the character of the Apostles in this way.

[Mickey]

So Mickey, if I understand you correctly, you have portrayed James as quoting a Scripture that referred to an even in the distant future, but sureptitiously using it to trick people into thinking that its description of the relationship of Gentiles to God's people should be applied now anyway.
First of all,James did not know how long it would be before the Lord returned so your accusation is baseless.

Instead of directly addressing what I said previously you just make something up and then use that to attempt to assassinate my character.You say:
The only thing I fail to understand is why you're happy to impugn the character of the Apostles in this way.
Here you are accusing me of impunging the character of the Apostles.

Not only have you proven over and over that you are ignorant of what the Scriptures reveal,now you have proven that you are petty and vindictive.

"Ye shall know them by their fruits" (Mt.7:16).

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

Mickey, that's ridiculous. All I did was show you that your argument made James into a Scripture twisting trickster, and you say I'm attacking your character. What a petty silly thing to say.