SpecialThanx

[Hitch]

Special thanx to Timmy&Mickey.

I've thought of posting about the results of futurist's tactics and intellectual dishonesty, but these recent demonstrations illustrate those effects far better than I am able.

North was right, DF died when Dr John turned 'God's Stopped Clock of Prophecy' back on with out asking first.

[Mickey]

Special thanx to Timmy&Mickey.

I've thought of posting about the results of futurist's tactics and intellectual dishonesty, but these recent demonstrations illustrate those effects far better than I am able.
You re welcome,Hitch.

I am willing to let those who are undecided in regard to eschatology decide for themselves if the kingdom is now taking place,as the preterists claim.

And the preterists still have not provided a credible answer as to why the Lord Jesus is not now sitting upon His own throne instead of the Father's throne:

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in My throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in His throne" (Rev.3:21).

Also,as this verse demonstrates,Christians will sit with Him in His throne in the future.And the Scriptures reveal that Christians will "reign on the earth":

"And hast made us unto our God a kingdom of priests: and we shall reign on the earth" (Rev.5:10).

Since the Christian will be sitting with the Lord Jesus at His throne and will "reign on the earth" then it is certain that the throne of the Lord Jesus will be on the earth.

But the preterists want us to just ignore these verses.They are able to close their eyes and pretend that they do not even exist,and they can't understand why others will not do the same.

The sme is true in regard to Dee Dee's timeline.She says that the Lord began to rule and the kingdom started at the Resurrection/Acession of the Lord Jesus in AD 30-33.

However,the preterists teach that when the Lord came in the clouds that happened in AD 70.And the Lord Jesus Himself said that at His coming in the clouds the kingdom remained only "near":

"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory....So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is near at hand" (Lk.21:27,31).

The way Dee Dee explains this huge propblem is by evoking the idea that some events are already here,but not yet.

She is able to part company with her common sense and explain away her mistake by saying that the kingdom was already in place at the time of the resurrection,but on the other hand the kingdom was not yet in place.

Dee Dee sees other preterists on this board accepting her nonsense so she an't understand why others do not accept it.

Again,thanks again,Hitch,for giving me the opportunity to present the ideas of the preterists so that those who are undecided in their eschatology can see just exactly what the preterists teach.

In Christ,
Mickey

[Tim C.]

I've thought of posting about the results of futurist's tactics

Solid Scriptural exposition and solid Church history are bad tactics, eh?

and intellectual dishonesty

Solid Scriptural exposition and solid Church history, coupled with a slap against preterism's wild new ideas, is "intellectual dishonesty," eh?

but these recent demonstrations illustrate those effects far better than I am able.

Recent demonstrations? I have yet to see a good preterist argument. All you guys ever do is wrest time-texts into a new-fangled "time limit" idea, and then spiritualize the rest of Scripture on an as-need basis. Nothing new there.

North was right, DF died when Dr John turned 'God's Stopped Clock of Prophecy' back on with out asking first.

He didn't start the clock ticking again, but thanks for demonstrating your ignorance on the subject. What he did was to bring the historic Christian teaching of imminency back to the forefront.

-Tim

[Hitch]

Bible prophecies being fulfilled today equalls imminency ,,,LOL not even in the cobbwebs of your impared thinking Timmy.

[dizzle]

Dee Dee sees other preterists on this board accepting her nonsense so she an't understand why others do not accept it.

Mickey wow you're jealous :blush: - the fact is that I have had a hand in assisting dozens come to this point of view. I feel privileged to have been of some help in their studies, and knowing that I have had, when I get the emails that I get frequently, are of great blessing to me. Also, when someone decides for their reasons that they don't agree, when they are not trolls about it, I wish them the best. Solly once agreed with me, and then changed his mind, and I think the world of him. I think he is wrong, but I understand why, so what you have said is a flat-out misrepresentation, but I have found that standard practice with you.

I "understand" why some are not preterists. I was not one and resisted becoming one until being convinced by the poor arguments of some futurists on another board when what I really wanted was to be convinced that preterism was wrong.

I don't understand your continual misrepresentations and refusal to productively debate. Polemic here and there is justified IMHO (and entertaining and challenging from both sides), but your methodology IMHO is the bottom of the barrell and also since I consider the denial of the bodily resurrection to be a potentially theologically fatal error, you are outside the historic faith. For that reason, my interactions with you will by necessity be few, arguing with you about futurism when you have such a foundational error is like straightening pictures in a burning home.

[Hitch]

The nuts fall close to the tree. These tactics really arent different from those used by DFs since 'Dr' Cy. And as North said , they (the tactics of misrepresentation) reveal the weaknesses they were developed to hide.

[Tim C.]

Bible prophecies being fulfilled today equalls imminency ,,,LOL not even in the cobbwebs of your impared thinking Timmy.

Where did Darby say Bible prophecies were being fulfilled today? Answer that, Hitch. You said Darby started the clock ticking again. Either produce these quotes, or admit your mistake.

Or for that matter, where has any dispensationalist said Bible prophecies are being fulfilled today? We see the reestablishing of Israel as, perhaps, a "stage-setting" event for end times events to unfold. This is not "fulfillment of prophecy." And, yes, this historical fact of the reestablishing of Israel as a nation is an embarrasing and devestating blow to Covenant Theology. You folks can't seem to grasp that fact, can you.

Its actually the "Historicists" who would say that the present time is fulfilling Great Tribulation prophecy in the Bible. Maybe you should refocus your attention against that view.

-Tim

[Tim C.]

The nuts fall close to the tree. These tactics really arent different from those used by DFs since 'Dr' Cy.

What "tactics"? All I see here is your misrepresentation of our view, Hitch. We don't think end times prophecy is being fulfilled right now. Maybe you should go back and read Darby, Scofield, etc. and actually get a grasp of our futurist view? It would save you some embarrasement.

And as North said

North? Isn't he that wacko who sensationalized the Y2K nonsense?

-Tim

[eschaton]

What "tactics"? All I see here is your misrepresentation of our view, Hitch. We don't think end times prophecy is being fulfilled right now...
-Tim

So does that mean modern day Israel isn't a fulfillment of prophecy?

[Tim C.]

So does that mean modern day Israel isn't a fulfillment of prophecy?

No, it doesn't "fulfill prophecy." But it sure sets the stage for the fulfillments which must take place. And this is an embarrasing fact for the anti-Israel eschatologies out there. And they've never really given an answer as to why God would allow such a thing to occur.

-Tim

[eschaton]

No, it doesn't "fulfill prophecy." But it sure sets the stage for the fulfillments which must take place. And this is an embarrasing fact for the anti-Israel eschatologies out there. And they've never really given an answer as to why God would allow such a thing to occur.

-Tim

So the Bible didn't implicitly teach that the nation of Israel would be re-established? I thought that's what DF's believed. I thought that's why DF was popular in 20th century America.

[eschaton]

Is that what you mean by "setting the stage"? The Bible has prophecies that could only be fulfilled if there was a national Israel. Therefore, the re-establishment of national Israel in 1947(?) was a pre-condition for the fulfillment of other Bible prophecies. I find this in my Scofield in Eze 37.

Having announced the restoration of the nation (36:24 - 38), the LORD now gives in vision and symbol the method of its accomplishment. Verse 11 gives the clue. The bones represent the whole house of Israel living at the time of restoration. The graves (v. 12) are the nations where they dwell. The order is: (1) bringing the people out (v. 12); (2) bringing them in (v. 12); (3) their conversion (v. 13); and (4) their being filled with the Spirit (v. 14). The symbol follows. The two sticks are Judah and the ten tribes; united, they are one nation (vv. 19 - 28).

I thought that was supposed to be a Bible prophecy about the re-establishment of Israel. Are you really a DF?

[eschaton]

I found this df teaching on the web.

http://www.ldolphin.org/ezekiel/ezekiel14.html

Sounds like the fulfillment of Bible prophecy to me.

[Armor of God]

No, it doesn't "fulfill prophecy." But it sure sets the stage for the fulfillments which must take place. And this is an embarrasing fact for the anti-Israel eschatologies out there. And they've never really given an answer as to why God would allow such a thing to occur.

-Tim
Just wondering which ones those would be?

[Hitch]

Where did Darby say Bible prophecies were being fulfilled today? Answer that, Hitch. You said Darby started the clock ticking again. Either produce these quotes, or admit your mistake.

Well I dont believe any one ever granted Darby a Thd. Be that as it may my reference was to Walvoord and his flip-flops regarding contemporary fulfillments while president ,and thereby the official voice of of DTS.

Or for that matter, where has any dispensationalist said Bible prophecies are being fulfilled today? We see the reestablishing of Israel as, perhaps, a "stage-setting" event for end times events to unfold. This is not "fulfillment of prophecy." And, yes, this historical fact of the reestablishing of Israel as a nation is an embarrasing and devestating blow to Covenant Theology. You folks can't seem to grasp that fact, can you. Walvoord, Lindsey, C. Smith, Ice, House, Van Impe. LaHaye, LaLond. Hagee, Robertson, Graham, Sumerall, Hunt , TBN . SouthWest Radio Church. All declared DFs and all meet the criteria.

Its actually the "Historicists" who would say that the present time is fulfilling Great Tribulation prophecy in the Bible. Maybe you should refocus your attention against that view.

-Tim see above.

[Tim C.]

So the Bible didn't implicitly teach that the nation of Israel would be re-established? I thought that's what DF's believed. I thought that's why DF was popular in 20th century America.

Well the nation of Israel would need to be reestablished in order for certain end times prophecies to take place. But that itself isn't a specific prophesied event in the Bible. This is all pretty simple to understand, friend, and it is also easy to see why the existence of Israel at the present time is so totally embarrasing to Covenant Theology.

-Tim

[Tim C.]

Is that what you mean by "setting the stage"? The Bible has prophecies that could only be fulfilled if there was a national Israel. Therefore, the re-establishment of national Israel in 1947(?) was a pre-condition for the fulfillment of other Bible prophecies. I find this in my Scofield in Eze 37.

Having announced the restoration of the nation (36:24 - 38), the LORD now gives in vision and symbol the method of its accomplishment. Verse 11 gives the clue. The bones represent the whole house of Israel living at the time of restoration. The graves (v. 12) are the nations where they dwell. The order is: (1) bringing the people out (v. 12); (2) bringing them in (v. 12); (3) their conversion (v. 13); and (4) their being filled with the Spirit (v. 14). The symbol follows. The two sticks are Judah and the ten tribes; united, they are one nation (vv. 19 - 28).

I thought that was supposed to be a Bible prophecy about the re-establishment of Israel. Are you really a DF?

Ezekiel 37 doesn't have anything to do with 1948 or 1967. It concerns Israel at the time of her resurrection and the time that she inherits the blessings promised her.

-Tim

[eschaton]

Ezekiel 37 doesn't have anything to do with 1948 or 1967. It concerns Israel at the time of her resurrection and the time that she inherits the blessings promised her.

-Tim

That's not what DF teaches. I grew up listening to df teachers and they ALL taught that Ezekiel 37 was about the establishment of modern Israel.

[Tim C.]

That's not what DF teaches. I grew up listening to df teachers and they ALL taught that Ezekiel 37 was about the establishment of modern Israel.

Sorry, but you're just plain wrong about that.

-Tim

[Tim C.]

I found this df teaching on the web.

http://www.ldolphin.org/ezekiel/ezekiel14.html

Sounds like the fulfillment of Bible prophecy to me.

Sounds like teaching concerning the return of the Lord and establishing of the Messianic Kingdom, if you ask me.

-Tim

[Tim C.]

Just wondering which ones those would be?

1.) Covenant Amillennialism
2.) Preterism of any stripe
3.) Basically, all non-premillennial views. They are anti-Israel by nature.

-Tim

[eschaton]

So, if the Jews coming back to the land and again living within a nation named Israel, with Jerusalem at the center of their daily life–the Temple Mount at the center of the longing of at least the religious Jews--it is logical to conclude we are seeing prophecy in the process of fulfillment. We can see the predicted beginning of this process, and its fulfillment in the following verse.

“And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country” (Eze. 34:13).

The Jews began coming back into the land from all over the world in the 1800s. The migration continued and accelerated until the modern Jewish state was born in 1948. The greatest migration has occurred since, and is prophesied to grow mightily. But, they inhabit only a tiny fraction of the land God gave them. The completion of the latter part of the above Scripture awaits fulfillment in Christ’s millennial kingdom.

This generation has watched the beginning of fulfillment of prophecy with Israel’s return as a nation, just as God promised. This being the case, how can the long-held line that there is no prophecy that precedes the rapture still be held?

http://www.raptureready.com/nm/69.html

[eschaton]

Sorry, but you're just plain wrong about that.

-Tim

You don't know df doctrine. I know more about df than you do. Check my previous post.

[eschaton]

My grandmother became df back before 1947, and she taught me that df's were saying the establishment of Israel would be a fulfillment of Bible prophecy, and then it happened. So if they were saying it then there's no reason for them to change now.

[Tim C.]

Well I dont believe any one ever granted Darby a Thd. Be that as it may my reference was to Walvoord and his flip-flops regarding contemporary fulfillments while president ,and thereby the official voice of of DTS.

None of us have ever said the Israel program has been resumed, Hitch. (i.e., the "clock started ticking again" idea). None of us have ever taught that, Hitch. I think you owe us an apology for your intentional misrepresentation of our position.

Walvoord, Lindsey, C. Smith, Ice, House, Van Impe. LaHaye, LaLond. Hagee, Robertson, Graham, Sumerall, Hunt , TBN . SouthWest Radio Church. All declared DFs and all meet the criteria. see above.

None of them thinks the final seven years of the Israel program is underway. Just face it... you've blundered (as usual).

-Tim

[Tim C.]

So, if the Jews coming back to the land and again living within a nation named Israel, with Jerusalem at the center of their daily life–the Temple Mount at the center of the longing of at least the religious Jews--it is logical to conclude we are seeing prophecy in the process of fulfillment. We can see the predicted beginning of this process, and its fulfillment in the following verse.

“And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country” (Eze. 34:13).

The Jews began coming back into the land from all over the world in the 1800s. The migration continued and accelerated until the modern Jewish state was born in 1948. The greatest migration has occurred since, and is prophesied to grow mightily. But, they inhabit only a tiny fraction of the land God gave them. The completion of the latter part of the above Scripture awaits fulfillment in Christ’s millennial kingdom.

This generation has watched the beginning of fulfillment of prophecy with Israel’s return as a nation, just as God promised. This being the case, how can the long-held line that there is no prophecy that precedes the rapture still be held?

http://www.raptureready.com/nm/69.html

The reestablishing of the nation of Israel (1948, or 1967) was not the fulfillment of the gathering together of the elect, and the permanant planting of the covenant people in their covenanted land - fulfilling the Abrahamic Covenant.

I think you need to study more.

-Tim

[Tim C.]

You don't know df doctrine. I know more about df than you do. Check my previous post.

lol! Thats a good joke.

-Tim

[Tim C.]

My grandmother became df back before 1947, and she taught me that df's were saying the establishment of Israel would be a fulfillment of Bible prophecy, and then it happened. So if they were saying it then there's no reason for them to change now.

No, they were saying that the reestablishing of the nation of Israel was a necessity in order for certain end times prophecies to take place. And... blamo... sure enough it happened. This is an embarrasing blow to all Covenant Theology. But it isn't a "fulfillment of Bible prophecy," per se, just a necessity in order for the plain meaning of many prophecies to take place in the future. Thats all.

-Tim

[eschaton]

lol! Thats a good joke.

-Tim

Here's a series of df links for you to learn from. I have facts for MY arguments.

http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/contents/doctrine/ISRAEL%20FULFILLING%20PROPHECY.htm

http://www.raptureready.com/faq/faq82.html

http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/contents/doctrine/israel%20middle%20east%20prophecy.htm

http://www.whattimeitis.org/

http://www.prophezinenews.com/0204articles/gogmaygogwar.htm

http://www.1260-1290-days-bible-prophecy.org/bible_prophecy-Israel-nation-1260-years-x2-A-1.htm

http://home.att.net/~joyceschmedel/Eze32.htm

[eschaton]

No, they were saying that the reestablishing of the nation of Israel was a necessity in order for certain end times prophecies to take place. And... blamo... sure enough it happened. This is an embarrasing blow to all Covenant Theology. But it isn't a "fulfillment of Bible prophecy," per se, just a necessity in order for the plain meaning of many prophecies to take place in the future. Thats all.

-Tim

Why is it that all you have is assertions? Give me some links to look at.

[eschaton]

Here it is straight from the horse's mouth.

This means the Bible teaches that God will return the Jews to their land before the tribulation begins (Isa. 11:11–12:6; Ezek. 20:33-44; 22:17-22; Zeph. 2:1-3). This has been accomplished and the stage is set as a result of the current existence of the modern state of Israel. -- Thomas Ice

http://www.raptureready.com/featured/Israel.html


Now don't tell me you don't know who Thomas Ice is.

[eschaton]

Please note he gives various scriptures and says it has been accomplished. That means the prophecies have been fulfiiled. I await your df links that contradict this.

[Armor of God]

1.) Covenant Amillennialism
2.) Preterism of any stripe
3.) Basically, all non-premillennial views. They are anti-Israel by nature.

-Tim
Wow. You should quit reading Ed Hindson and get out more.

[Hitch]

None of us have ever said the Israel program has been resumed, Hitch. (i.e., the "clock started ticking again" idea). None of us have ever taught that, Hitch. I think you owe us an apology for your intentional misrepresentation of our position.


What do you mean by 'us' Timmy?[quote]


None of them thinks the final seven years of the Israel program is underway. Just face it... you've blundered (as usual).

LOL SpecialThanx again Timmy. You asked earlier what ';tactics' I was referring to. I appreciate the demonstration. Until this post the fabled 'final seven years' hadnt even been mentioned. You changed the basic subject, from 'fulfilled propehcies' to a narrowly defined specific. In plain terms you lied, again. Disgusting.


Where did Darby say Bible prophecies were being fulfilled today? Answer that, Hitch. You said Darby started the clock ticking again. Either produce these quotes, or admit your mistake.

No disgusting doesnt do it, you are dishonest. OH yeah an already listed DF trait... And trying to pass of Darby as a Docktor??? LOL And you whine for an apology...



-TimYou are a pathetic twit Timmy

[Hitch]

Burt Reynolds film syndrome;
Some southern boy whips up a plan and blames every one else when it falls apart.

Well Garfish, you asked me to respond to your questions in #37. Silly me I assumed them to be honest and answered in #42.

When your trick didnt work you went on a rage. You couldnt even respond, you never did, you just went on you poor little me as victim me tantrum. It was only todays reading of your more recent posts that I noticed the constant whine and realized you handnt even bothered to respond to your questions I had answered. Your deceit failed, maybe backfired is a better term.

Hal needs you and you need him.

[gharfish]

Burt Reynolds film syndrome;
Some southern boy whips up a plan and blames every one else when it falls apart.

Well Garfish, you asked me to respond to your questions in #37. Silly me I assumed them to be honest and answered in #42.Hitch, you are on the wrong blinkin' thread here. You want to be in the other one about Gavin's conversion to preterism. The 2 or 3 questions were honest, Hitch. I was trying to see if you could explain the significance, if any, to you personally, of specific numbered chapter breaks in the book of Revelation.

Answering my questions was not mandatory; it gave you an opportunity to talk intelligently about the thing that is your driving passion. You should relish the air time, if nothing else. You like to play the heavy when it comes to preterism, so I gave you the opportunity to show that you are justified in doing so with just as heavy an understanding of the ins and outs of it.When your trick didnt work you went on a rage.Well, now that wasn't a trick, Hitch. It was a test. As I recall (it's been awhile now and alot has happened, you know) your response did not point away from what I understand to be 'orthodox' within that particular POV; not obviously so; not apart from the general appearance of the P's point of view I have seen elsewhere on TWeb.

What would you like me to say about your answers ?

The asking wasn't meant to start a debate. They weren't meant to initiate anything, necessarily. I disagree with preterism in whole--all of it, in every "intensity" / variation thereof ! I had NO plans of dialoguing as per your style, with you. Even if it might lead to a common understanding on something...anything...I don't like you one bit, for your continual arrogance and condescension, and all this over such a relatively insignificant doctrine ! You roast people for believing in the rapture of the church ! Wow, how awful...awfully, obviously stupid of them. This unbiblical foolishness that was taught by saint Paul, and maybe just perhaps even Jesus, Himself. Some people actually think so, Hitch. Learn from your shipmates: do the same thing, but with ALOT of subtlety.You couldnt even respond, you never did, you just went on you poor little me as victim me tantrum.While it is true I didn't, it wasn't because I couldn't. I had nothing to say. I'm sorry, but I couldn't think of anything to say. Maybe that's true then: I couldn't respond because it didn't have a form that lent itself well to a response--not from me, anyway. (Does it really matter to you ? Honestly, now !)It was only todays reading of your more recent posts that I noticed the constant whine and realized you handnt even bothered to respond to your questions I had answered. Your deceit failed, maybe backfired is a better term.Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whine on and on about my whining. I made it quite plain from early on that I was messing around with you to some degree. But that does not make it deceitful. It might put you on the spot if you screw it up, but that's as bad as it gets. You kind of have to know your stuff like the back of your hand if your MO is gonna be play rough all the time, with any one who dares show up "not respecting the scriptures."

>like you know them<

regardless, if you came and asked me what I thought about X, Y, and Z in regards to something specific about futurism, should I feel that you were deceiving me ? I think I'd just say to myself, "Cultic dispy, do you want to take this opportunity to talk about your disease of an eschatology, or.....pass ?"

The way you operate stinks. In the small group of smellies, you are among the very stinkiest. You don't make any pretense about being two-faced. (Hmm, maybe that's to your credit, come to think of it.)

The next quote you see below will give you a clue as to why you are in my crosshairs. I'll put it in bold type and underline it. Here's a hint: it has to do with the way you treated a brand new fish who naively thought he was defending the actual honor of a man (for his christology was unquestionably sound, and his eschatology 'at least' very mainstream), when it would be for this same fish a hard lesson in the way a godly man can be slandered for no other good reason than he holds an entirely different interpretation method in ONE doctrine he's "famous for'.....a doctrine that this fish didn't realize was crassly being jacked-up high, with that fellow Christian as the butt of the 100th *uh* "joke" of it's kind.Hal needs you and you need him.And with that crap in your mind's eye, I'll leave you (forever) that you may battle on, no matter how tricky you might need be again--a spoke in the next wheel's roll.....for this cause that seemingly is above all else for you.

[Hitch]

And with that crap in your mind's eye, I'll leave you (forever) that you may battle on, no matter how tricky you might need be again--a spoke in the next wheel's roll.....for this cause that seemingly is above all else for

Well jr I posted this here because you had promised to stop cluttering up the threads with your drivel. You lied and here you are again. And it seems that you cant even grasp that your entire post does nothing more than to confirm my point.


For once in your life keep your word.Not very likely is it.

[gharfish]

Now, Hitch, you know that accusing someone of lying is a "big 'no no" here on TWeb. No ? You are supposed to have to go on and prove that.

Your point was that Hal and I have a mutual "need" for each other...and my post confirms this (?)

Ok, Senior.

[Hitch]

Now, Hitch, you know that accusing someone of lying is a "big 'no no" here on TWeb. No ? You are supposed to have to go on and prove that.

Your point was that Hal and I have a mutual "need" for each other...and my post confirms this (?) LOL no you missed it completely, but you're following the script perfectly.
Ok, Senior.
'And with that crap in your mind's eye, I'll leave you (forever) that you may battle on, no matter how tricky you might need be again--a spoke in the next wheel's roll.....for this cause that seemingly is above all else for'

Thats from your post today.


This is only your most recent whine about leaving ,, There is another I noticed in some other drivel you put up,,,yet you're still here and still whining. But hey, thats all ya got aint it peckerwood? In fact the reason I posted that paragraph here is because I was foolish enough take your wrod that you were leaving and I didnt want to clog up a better thread with a matter thats was closed.



Quote: Originally posted by garfish

Ah, my last customer...

Yes, an inarticulate pimp/troll can still P me O after all this time. You were a jerk there, and not having changing a lick since,....

And with this, I am out of here; no more conversing at all with preterists. i am not going to say anything regarding end-times prophecy from this day forward.

You all will eventually run off everybody debate-worthy. Rethink the game plan while you still have a few good opponents hanging with you. Limit the people you alienate, needlessly.


Take the last word PW I will not respond ,to this specific. And you're going back on ignore.

[gharfish]

'And with that crap in your mind's eye, I'll leave you (forever) that you may battle on, no matter how tricky you might need be again--a spoke in the next wheel's roll.....for this cause that seemingly is above all else for'

Thats from your post today.That's the lie ! Ok. But you've added on an extra "lie" incident. Not that it matters.

Yes, that is a serious moral fault you have exposed, Hitch. I thought I had lied about something significant--you know, like having to do with something related to the TOPIC.

If by asking you questions about your opinions of the significance, if any, to/for you, on chapter breaks in the book of Revelation was deceptive, it was only because I was trying to see: 1) what you knew, and 2) where you were in terms of being a mild (very unlikely), or moderate (which would have been an interesting development if it looked like you had been MOR all this time !), or "full"--> which I understood not to be the essentially non-Christian "hypers.."

I have already apologized in the real sense of the word. You can see for yourself in the thread we are supposed to (even now) still be in: Gavin's Conversion to Preterism. I did not try to deceive anyone into thinking you were a full preterist, if that meant that you denied a future bodily return of Christ and the bodily resurrection of His church. NO ! I was not for a second trying to snooker people into doubting that you held these absolutely essential to Christian faith beliefs. If that's why you call me a peckerwood everytine we "meet," then I will accept the insult (don't drop the 'wood' from that word, though--ya know ! ...as much as you prob'ly want to).

My post to you was not meant to start a firefight. But, I was really grouchy on that one day about your style that has been since day one (for me personally) always so low as to shoot first, never ask questions, when "Hal disciples" are so shameless and 'clueless' as to show up in a thread that was custom-made to sucker in these very same dispy newbies.

*and then the game is on !*

You will justify that by calling the Dr. John's, and other enemies to the 'faith,' "false prophets." Really false prophet according to the Bible under Mosaic law deserve to be stoned to death types. They are evil because they oppose preterism--how ? By not being preterists. They are in opposition to God's program, by being futurists, who believe in X number of dispensations/economies, and are 'ready for a rapture,' and the Rev.-flavored millennial reign of Jesus on earth.....aren't even on board with replacement theology. Dang their worthless hides. 'study'HOUND them wherever they may be !

If it makes you feel any better, I did get myself in a heap of trouble by asking you if the traditional dating of Revelation in the 90's-on presented any problem for you--just you. I went too far, you see, because I didn't know that there were many credible scholars who would place all of John's books--all--before the fall of the temple...though in stark contrast to the vast majority who won't. Very conservative, evangelical, dating scholars respect the scriptures enough to have no qualms about all the NT books, up-to-Acts, being in the pre-68 'club,' but they doggedly won't let any of John's books in. If the many are wrong it wouldn't wreck futurism, but in asking that particular question I exposed my intention to put a measure on your position, & your ability to discuss it on-the-fly.

The debate on the 60s vs. 90s is dead, but what should have happened there was a defense of each by both of the interested partys. I do sincerely wonder what the evidence is for the pre-68 AD date for Revelation. But then a great apathy sweeps that away, and I am left only with hard feelings. So, I will really, really, try to pull myself off from the eschatolgy game. To do that I will have to resist lures cast in my direction. They will come, if not for me in particular, then for the generic DF lurker, or the not yet here futurist who might make for nice 'explosions,' if controlled right. Fireworks ! Crowds love them.

Back to those questions I asked of you, Hitch: they regarding whether or not all of Revelation was fulfilled during the first three centuries (mild view, if "yes"), and that the ch. 11 break corresponded to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD (mild, again). It did include asking if you thought that rather ch.s 4 - 19 referred to the same, leaving w/o any doubt (still orthodox !) a few passages teaching the yet to be second coming--like 1st Thes. 4: 1-18, and 1st Cor. 15: 51-58.....Acts 1: 11, that you personally held to in faith in all seriousness. I did not know what Rev.'s ch. 20 to close's teachings could mean for you, regardless of classification for any preterist. I mistakenly thought that going beyond that point was a move towards "full." I misunderstood what "full" means to you 'and your's' around here. The whole Revelation speculating experiment was not an attempt to debunk preterism, for I don't care to do that ! ...or think it is do-able.

I would have a live and let live attitude about preterism if it weren't promoted too often with bad behaviors. That brought me to you ! I think it was around the time I saw your FuturismVS.Reality thread pop up that I began to crack.

What began as a let's see what the core knowledge of a hardcore hard-butted P promoter is, came back to bite me in the butt ! Ouch. So, score this bungle of mine for your side.

I wonder how many victories and lesser bestings like I suffered must be understood by 'both sides' to have occurred--the yet unknown number--that once reached will cast futurism as unworthy of belief from then on. You all have one tight crack team assembled ! And you for one don't never mess around. Full tilt !

I have been drawn again and again to the fray because I would rise to the challenge to defend futurist authors/speakers/preachers, never getting it through my thick head until now that the "Rapture Index: something-something-something" OP's are about the counter-interpretaion, and not the individuals put on parade.This is only your most recent whine about leaving ,, There is another I noticed in some other drivel you put up,,,yet you're still here and still whining. But hey, thats all ya got aint it peckerwood?Yes. Yes. Yes. It's all good fun. TheologyWeb is about entertainment as much, if not more, than serious debate...on anything. It's mud wrasslin', most days.

I have been whining about leaving, but there's a few people who don't want me to. Why would that be, Hitch ? What could that posssibly be about ? They whine about my whining and still being there when I said I wouldn't be. But invitations had been sent out overnight.

Oddly enough, one will drop a hook into the water close-by with my name on it. Another will take up on that good work and twitch it around in the water to double the chances I'll see it. Does that sound right ? I think it's happened again. Do you think I should "whine" about the latest name drop ? That would be stepping into a no-win situation--that is, if it weren't just a figment of my imagination. If I want to go, and yet others don't and try to keep me near the boat, is going back on my word to leave the greater "sin" ?In fact the reason I posted that paragraph here is because I was foolish enough take your wrod that you were leaving and I didnt want to clog up a better thread with a matter thats was closed.You posted in the wrong thread by mistake.
Quote: Originally posted by garfish

Ah, my last customer...

Yes, an inarticulate pimp/troll can still P me O after all this time. You were a jerk there, and not having changing a lick since,....

And with this, I am out of here; no more conversing at all with preterists. I am not going to say anything regarding end-times prophecy from this day forward.Like the Godfather III (?) line goes: "Everytime I try to leave, they pull me back in." (Or something like that.)You all will eventually run off everybody debate-worthy. Rethink the game plan while you still have a few good opponents hanging with you. Limit the people you alienate, needlessly.I think this is true. It's not a prophecy or anything; just an educated guess, seeing as how I've witnessed a few or more preterists not mindind stepping hard on toes if the dance starts to get boring.Take the last word PW I will not respond ,to this specific. And you're going back on ignore."Ignore" ? No, please ! How can you do that to me ? I'll be brief then with my last word. Your crusade against the stupidity of DF is ironic to me because your eschatology requires voluminous sections of prophetic scriptures that speak of the end times to be disregarded to uphold it. You know; books like Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Zechariah, Jeremiah.....and Revelation, (all) messed-around with in a way that seems less than smart. Dropping the curtain on the nation of Israel so that she (definitely now in the here...) cannot play a part in the end times is unusual to me because the scriptures involved largely consist of--speak of--invasions of Israel.

Well, that's just me.