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I was talking with someone about the nature of salvation and I said that when God saves a person, He changes that person so that he will no longer be dominated by sin. He will bear the fruit of the Holy Spirit. The person I was talking with asked me what would happen if someone receives salvation, but never gets a changed life. I told him that it is impossible to receive salvation without getting a changed life. Moreover, I said that having a changed life does not merit salvation. Having a changed life does not get that person into heaven. Having a changed life is an inevitable consequence of receiving salvation. Then, he accused me of believing in a works salvation, that people are saved by their good works. I told him that a changed life does not save anyone. A changed life is the effect of receiving salvation. What do you think of this?
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I think the person you are talking about is a bit out there to be honest. -
Your view is the orthodox view here."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard RavenhillComment
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What have the apostles said?
Of course - In the eyes of some, that was only James, so it is of no account.
And of course, in the eyes of some, Paul was just having an off day - he didn't really mean that.
I'm not sure what the "faith alone" brigade makes of Peter's comments on the subject.1 Peter 1:13 ... rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
But what did Jesus have to say?
As for me, I have a sneaking suspicion that maybe Jesus might have had some idea of what he was talking about.Last edited by tabibito; 08-10-2015, 08:04 PM.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
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What about somebody like Mrs. CP? She was a very decent and moral girl when I won her to the Lord, so there wasn't any visible change.Originally posted by Jaxb View PostThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.Comment
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Errm ... You're saying she had nothing whatever to repent of? OR ... The way she conducted herself didn't SEEM to change?Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
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Come on, spit it out.Originally posted by tabibito View Post
Nope.You're saying she had nothing whatever to repent of?
There was no apparent outward change, and since "man looks on the outward appearance", that's what we see.OR ... The way she conducted herself didn't SEEM to change?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.Comment
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Ah - so no difference in her behaviour? She didn't start to go to church nor mention Christ in favourable terms from time to time?Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛Comment
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She grew up Lutheran - she was already doing that.Originally posted by tabibito View Post
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.Comment
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So where does "winning her to the lord" come into play?1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛Comment
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When, on our first date, she accepted Christ as her savior and became a Christian.Originally posted by tabibito View PostThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.Comment
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What if you were saved as a child? How could one tell a difference between growing up as a Christian vs growing up in general?If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!Comment
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Yeah, as opposed to, for example, the guy I knew years ago who was "gloriously saved" because his wife was tired of his drinking, cussing, running around and had gone to stay with her sister for a while. He "changed" to get her back, until he couldn't fake it any longer, and went back to cussing, drinking and running around.Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
Then there's my friend Ralph who, the very first time he heard the Gospel of Christ preached, accepted Christ as savior, having been a really decent guy prior to that.
And the guy who gives the testimony about "fighting God", and living a life of debauchery, sin, evil, and scumbaggery, then he "gets saved", and that's the sum of his "testimony".
He is no more saved than Mrs. CP - and she's been way more consistent.
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.Comment
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He thinks that it is possible for someone to be a Christian without ever changing.Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostComment
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There is more to change than one's behavior that people see. There can be a change in attitude, desires, intentions, motivations, thoughts, priorities, and so on. There can be a change in what one takes delight in. There can be a change in one's philosophy of life, worldview, or outlook. There can be a change in giving God the glory for the good that happens instead of someone else. There can be a change in how one goes about making decisions or how one goes about gaining wisdom. There can be a love for God and other people that goes beyond outward appearances.Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostComment
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