Idealism: Another Eschatological View

[Magister Matt]

Does anyone know much about the Idealist view? I can't find much info but it seems most eschatological views integrate some form of idealism into certain areas of their interpretation. However, the entire discourse of prophecy being totally idealistic seems like a bit of a stretch, or is it? It is worth looking into, I think.

[eschaton]

The idealism in Bible interpretation that I know of seeks to look at the book of Revealtion in a way that symbolizes the tribulation and struggles a Christian faces in his spiritual and perhaps even in his physical life. That's a valid way of looking at it IMO. If Revelation can be looked at in that way, then all prophecy can be looked at in that way if one accepts the idea of unity and design in the scriptures.

[Ted]

Idealism can also be a way to avoid identifying the reality behind symbols. It becomes a vague "God wins" sort of approach to prophecy. Doing this, it loses a key element of symbolism.

God uses symbols to point to realities that are larger and more powerful in presentation when symbols are used. For example, "the beast" isn't just a power opposed to God, it's a strong negative image. After all, who wants to be around a BEAST?

Man exists in a geo-temporal arena. Symbols are generally another way of tying our arena to the spiritual arena. Thus, if the geo-temporal application is vague, the symbol has lost the power God put there.

As you can see, I find the Idealist view to be fraught with the danger of completely trivializing prophecy. And, if you look at my site, you will find what I think to be a much more robust and satisfying approach.

Ted

[David_A_Reed]

There is a sense in which all Scripture can be interpreted via idealism: What does this mean to me in my life? How can I benefit personally from this lesson? What does it mean, if I apply it to me and my circumstances -- or to the Church in general.

But to look at prophecy exclusively in this way is to miss the very literal application that prophecy has always had to the people/nations/groups about whom it was written. Moses foretold what would happen to the Jews if they obeyed, and what would happen if they disobeyed. A literal fulfullment has been seen throughout history. Before the Babylonian captivity, God used a prophet to declare that it would last 70 years. Toward the end of that captivity, another prophet discerned the earlier prophecy and acted appropriately.

New Testament prophecies foretold what would happen to the Jews in 70 AD and the years following, and what would happen to the Church down through history.

There are many examples in both the Old and New Testaments of prophecy being specific and literal in its application and fulfillment. It would be inconsistent, and without sound basis, to assume that only an idealistic application can be made to our days and to the future. God has intervened in human history dramatically in the past, and Scripture indicates he will do so again.

David

[GhostontheNet]

I myself tend to mix in an idealist perspective alongside my own preterist views, which gives Revelation a continued relevance (though preterism takes the trump card of first relevance in concrete references that idealist commentators have difficulty with). Idealism could be more accurately said to be the position that isn't so much against concrete references in history in eschatology as it argues that the same trends of the prophecy manifest themselves repeatedly in history as time progresses - thus it would indeed be fair to say that Hitler and other infamous individuals who people called the antichrist would each indeed be the personal form of The Beast, and that exploitative and decadent economies and/or corrupt churches are Mystery Babylon the Great. Idealism has the unique advantage of being able to be pretty smoothly fused with any of the other 3 views of eschatology, while making sense of the arguments of the signs of the times or apparent fulfillments within each of the other views, and here, as in general, I would recommend Steve Gregg's Revelation: Four Views: A Parallel Commentary.

[Aetius II]

While not exactly Idealist, I believe the Post-millenial view of Eschatology is the most Idealistic. Check out Ian Murray's book A Puritans Hope.

[dizzle]

I am postmill too. Welcome to TWeb.

[GhostontheNet]

While not exactly Idealist, I believe the Post-millenial view of Eschatology is the most Idealistic. Check out Ian Murray's book A Puritans Hope. No, no, you are confusing words, Idealism being one of those words which describes a very diverse spectrum of things, almost like the term dualism which can describe any number of things having two aspects. In this case, Idealism is the view of the Book of Revelation that holds that the Book describes God's protocol of general dealings with man and society, particularly in times of corruption. Postmillenialism's idealism however, would be better described as a gradualistic progression to a near-utopia before Yeshua Christ's return - but this is not what is being discussed in this thread, which is the school of eschatology also sometimes called the "Spiritualist" (arggh, another multi-loaded term) perspective.

[Aletheia]

but this is not what is being discussed in this thread, which is the school of eschatology also sometimes called the "Spiritualist" (arggh, another multi-loaded term) perspective.

I hadn't ever heard that term ("spiritualist") until yesterday, and then today I find it again in this thread.

A book I'm reading discusses an orthodox preterist, combined with idealist, view of eschatology.

I'm finding it quite enlightening. :smile:

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

In a nutshell, Idealism is about a passage being more theological than predictive. I t's not that other predictve passages aren't theological, but in an idealist view of a particular passage, it is seen primarily as theological teaching rather than a prediction about the future. Idealism is rarely the only approach an idelaist will take, so it's not going to be simplified as nondescript as "God wins." But Revelation 20 and the firsat resurrection is a classic case. In the idealist view, that's theology: The saints reign with Christ, and they will not be harmed by the second death. It's not a prediction about a future period of time, even though in the vision, that truth is presented in pictures that unfold sequentially.

As an outstanding introduction to idealism, which is a hermeneutical approach to apocalyptic literature, and not an eschatology (the same is true of preterism), see Marvin C. Pate (ed.), Four Views on the Book of Revelation (Zondervan).

[Aletheia]

As an outstanding introduction to idealism, which is a hermeneutical approach to apocalyptic literature, and not an eschatology (the same is true of preterism), see Marvin C. Pate (ed.), Four Views on the Book of Revelation (Zondervan).

I've added the book to my wish list.