Christian Necrophobes

[whag]

Grim-Reaper.jpg

"There is death because of the fall of mankind."

Let's talk about death some more.

The above quotation is from a Christian I know who said she's not afraid of death, but that everyone who's not a Christian *is* afraid because they fear being judged by a holy God. I can list many people, from gay teens who committed suicide to soldiers to high-wire walkers without a safety net, who didn't have a fear of death. So maybe the Christians who claim that all non-Christians fear death really just mean "some"? They'll have to clarify.

I contend that some Christians who can't process the fact that God, if he exists, invented death are themselves fearful of death and probably converted for that shallow reason. Some, not all.

To help them grow, I'd like for this thread to delve into the many consilient lines of evidence proving that death originated eons ago.

[KingsGambit]

To clarify; are we asserting that the existence of suicide is proof that death is not universally feared? Even the Bible itself portrays a few people as committing suicide (Zimri and Judas come to mind), for what it's worth. And I'd agree that not everybody is afraid of death, but I don't think that a few exceptions disprove what could be a general principle.

[Jichard]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]9218[/ATTACH]

"There is death because of the fall of mankind."

Let's talk about death some more.

The above quotation is from a Christian I know who said she's not afraid of death, but that everyone who's not a Christian *is* afraid because they fear being judged by a holy God. I can list many people, from gay teens who committed suicide to soldiers to high-wire walkers without a safety net, who didn't have a fear of death. So maybe the Christians who claim that all non-Christians fear death really just mean "some"? They'll have to clarify.

I contend that some Christians who can't process the fact that God, if he exists, invented death are themselves fearful of death and probably converted for that shallow reason. Some, not all.

Well, it's pretty clear that fear of death motivates religious belief in many people. For example:

"No Atheists in Foxholes: Motivated Reasoning and Religious Belief"
static.squarespace.com/static/5014cf5ce4b006ef411a1485/t/5044073ce4b0991b726a57f1/1346635580839/

"Recent research has focused on motivational bases of political ideology. It is plausible that similar factors may drive the formation of religious ideology. Though explanations of the existence of religious beliefs in terms of their satisfaction of psychological needs date back centuries, limited empirical research exists linking motivated reasoning to religious belief. I thoroughly review existing research on the role of motivation in the formation of religious belief systems, specifically research related to the relationship between fear of death and afterlife belief. Then I present the results of two original, experimental studies investigating the hypothesis that fear of death leads to greater religious belief. In Study 1, participants who were asked to write short essays about death reported greater belief in an afterlife than did participants who wrote essays on a neutral topic. Study 2 replicated this finding and also showed that increased fear of death leads to greater belief in God [emphasis added]. The results of the studies suggest that a more parsimonious motivated reasoning account may explain the relationship between fear of death and afterlife belief better than one based on Terror Management Theory. Taken together, findings support the notion that some religious beliefs can be usefully explained in motivational terms."

To help them grow, I'd like for this thread to delve into the many consilient lines of evidence proving that death originated eons ago.

Well, they're are numerous fossils from dead organisms that died long before humans existed, and thus died long before any human could have (supposedly) sinned. For example:

"Exceptional soft-tissue preservation in a theropod dinosaur from Italy"
nature.com/nature/journal/v392/n6674/full/392383a0.html

"During Albian time (about 113 Myr ago1), deposition of fine marly limestone in a shallow lagoonal environment, affected by cyclic periods of low oxygen levels2, led to exceptional preservation of soft tissue in a juvenile theropod."

[JimL]

Aging and death is a natural and unwelcome process in the nature of existence. The story of the fall was a way to remove what is seen as the evil of death from god and hang it squarely on the shoulders of the created. Unfortunately for believers, death has been around for as long as life has, for humans long before the claimed biblical history of creation and the fall of man, and so has nothing to do with mans disobedience to god 6000 years or so ago. There is really nothing to fear about death itself, since once dead there is no anguish of any kind. So I don't think that fear of death is an accurate way to frame the emotion, its more a fear of losing life. The reason that the christian in the above is not afraid of death, is because she is unable to face up to the fact that death is a fact of life, and so she refuses to believe that she will die.

[Sparko]

I notice all the atheists who claim they are not afraid of death are healthy and alive.

Talk to us again when you are on your deathbed or facing a terminal disease.

[whag]

To clarify; are we asserting that the existence of suicide is proof that death is not universally feared?

No, I bring it up to show it doesn't fit neatly into some Christians' and Muslims' belief that all infidels fear a judgment.

Even the Bible itself portrays a few people as committing suicide (Zimri and Judas come to mind), for what it's worth.

That's a conundrum for the Christians who've asserted non-Christians fear a judgment.

And I'd agree that not everybody is afraid of death, but I don't think that a few exceptions disprove what could be a general principle.

In no way did I deny a general principle. The general principle stems from our enhanced contextualization of death thanks to higher cognition. Mammals, in general, like to stay alive. The smartest of mammals, even more so.

[whag]

I notice all the atheists who claim they are not afraid of death are healthy and alive.

Talk to us again when you are on your deathbed or facing a terminal disease.

He said, forgetting he was healthy and alive.

[JimL]

I notice all the atheists who claim they are not afraid of death are healthy and alive.

Talk to us again when you are on your deathbed or facing a terminal disease.

I fear the pain and suffering of dying more than I fear death itself. When you think about it, what is there in death itself to actually fear. Nothing, unless of course you believe in an after life of torture in hell, which I do not. When we are on our death bed, what we really fear is the prospect of losing our lives, which is not quite the same thing as fearing death.

[Sparko]

He said, forgetting he was healthy and alive.

Actually I am not
I have not mentioned this publicly because it is nobody's business, but because of diabetes and some other problems I have end stage liver disease.

Without a transplant I will die, and in the meantime I could die at any moment due to various complications.

I have no fear of death because I know I am saved.

When you face something like me then come and tell me how you are not afraid to die.

So you were saying?

[Cow Poke]

Let's talk about death some more.

"and I want to get into that"

To help them grow,

Grow, thread, grow!


Anybody else notice the similarities?

[Cow Poke]

He said, forgetting he was healthy and alive.

That's quite some conclusion jumping, Whag.... perhaps you should inquire before snarking.


Just sayin

[whag]

Actually I am not
I have not mentioned this publicly because it is nobody's business, but because of diabetes and some other problems I have end stage liver disease.

Without a transplant I will die, and in the meantime I could die at any moment due to various complications.

I have no fear of death because I know I am saved.

When you face something like me then come and tell me how you are not afraid to die.

So you were saying?

I'm glad you're at peace, Sparko. My aunt died of a brain tumor at the age of 54 and was at peace until the very end. She wasn't a Christian. Within the last five years, I've lost three friends, a Mormon, a Buddhist, and a very liberal Christian (who you would regard as too liberal). All accepted their fate and died with dignity.

Let's get back on topic now. Death has existed since life has existed. Do Christians who deny this fact ultimately have a problem with God being the inventor of death?

[whag]

That's quite some conclusion jumping, Whag.... perhaps you should inquire before snarking.


Just sayin

Sparko originally said "I notice all the atheists who claim they are not afraid of death are healthy and alive." That was a jumped-to conclusion, as he actually noticed no such thing.

Just sayin'.

[Cow Poke]

Sparko originally said "I notice all the atheists who claim they are not afraid of death are healthy and alive." That was a jumped-to conclusion, as he actually noticed no such thing.

Just sayin'.

meh

[Sparko]

I'm glad you're at peace, Sparko. My aunt died of a brain tumor at the age of 54 and was at peace until the very end. She wasn't a Christian. Within the last five years, I've lost three friends, a Mormon, a Buddhist, and a very liberal Christian (who you would regard as too liberal). All accepted their fate and died with dignity.

Let's get back on topic now. Death has existed since life has existed. Do Christians who deny this fact ultimately have a problem with God being the inventor of death?

Deny what fact?

And the reason there is death is because mankind rebelled against God

But until you are faced with your own death you have no idea how you will react

Are you so sure there is no God that you are willing to bet your life on it?

I am not afraid to die because I know something better than this life awaits me

The best you can look forward is non existence or worse