Russia and WW2

[Spiritus Naturae]

I was pondering this the other day, do you guys think it would have made a significant difference for Russia in WW2 if the "Revolution" had never occured? No Lenin, no Stalin, no party. Just the Imperial Czarist Russia still in place, would that have made a difference in Russia's dealing with the Nazi threat? Would they have perhaps allied themselves with Germany?

[Nicholas]

I was pondering this the other day, do you guys think it would have made a significant difference for Russia in WW2 if the "Revolution" had never occured? No Lenin, no Stalin, no party. Just the Imperial Czarist Russia still in place, would that have made a difference in Russia's dealing with the Nazi threat? Would they have perhaps allied themselves with Germany?

Interesting question, it would certainly have made the issue of Soviet communism disappear. The main problem is that while it might have made a Nazi-Russian alliance more palatable for Hitler, he still had his eyes on vast swathes of Russian territory, so it likely wouldn't have lasted.

[NJon]

It would have made a huge difference. Had Russia remained under Czarist control, they may not have ever pulled out of World War I (where they were already losing terribly). Presuming that the trend of heavy casualties would continue, it may have crippled their war machine to the point where they would be unable to offer any resistance in World War II had they faced Nazi Germany. Since the U.S.S.R., as it were, was more involved in the actual push into Berlin than any other Allied nation, the lack of the Russian revolution could have changed the outcome of World War II, not to mention, there would have been no Cold War, and the world would not be as it is today.

As for Nazi Germany and Czarist Russia allying, we can only speculate. If they did ally, that also could have turned the tide of World War II in Axis favor.

[Durthorin]

It would have made a huge difference. Had Russia remained under Czarist control, they may not have ever pulled out of World War I (where they were already losing terribly). Presuming that the trend of heavy casualties would continue, it may have crippled their war machine to the point where they would be unable to offer any resistance in World War II had they faced Nazi Germany. Since the U.S.S.R., as it were, was more involved in the actual push into Berlin than any other Allied nation, the lack of the Russian revolution could have changed the outcome of World War II, not to mention, there would have been no Cold War, and the world would not be as it is today.

As for Nazi Germany and Czarist Russia allying, we can only speculate. If they did ally, that also could have turned the tide of World War II in Axis favor.

Ponder a Russia considering how to keep Germany from deciding to invade and being a current ally. It would not have been outside the bounds for Hitler to take the step of becoming a "Kaiser" or finding some overlooked Austrian nobility in his family history... then the stage would be set for an alliance by marriage to the Russian throne.

Russia's czarist military was obsolete, disorginized and unmotivated for the most part. If that hadn't changed by WW II then they would have hardly been able to stop or even slow a German attack and without the communist mindset/culture more likly to surrender and exchange a Czar for Hitler. Given a czarist Russia it might have been the first place Hitler turned to when he started moving against his neighbors as opposed to one of the last. A host of possabilities..

OK we're assuming the communists never took control, but why didn't they take control? The truth is that a lot of conditions led to there rise to power. Was Nicolas deposed by his own nobility? An a stronger member of the family put in place. Did he grow a backbone and ruthlessly put down the revolutionary movement for it got going or pull its teeth by reforming his goverment?

[Mr. Christopher]

I was pondering this the other day, do you guys think it would have made a significant difference for Russia in WW2 if the "Revolution" had never occured? No Lenin, no Stalin, no party. Just the Imperial Czarist Russia still in place, would that have made a difference in Russia's dealing with the Nazi threat? Would they have perhaps allied themselves with Germany?


I don't think they would have allied with Germany. Just because they saw how Germany was going for World Domination when they were surprised attacked. I think the same thing would have happened, because Japan needed help, and the fastest way there was through Russia. Plus, I don't even think there would have been a Do not fire Pact to begin with, because no Stalin = No jews being killed in Russia. It happened in Russia, too.

[djconklin]

I was pondering this the other day, do you guys think it would have made a significant difference for Russia in WW2 if the "Revolution" had never occured? No Lenin, no Stalin, no party. Just the Imperial Czarist Russia still in place, would that have made a difference in Russia's dealing with the Nazi threat? Would they have perhaps allied themselves with Germany?

That would be an interesting question to answer in the form of a campaign game.

[sj48182]

The question is unanswerable, since fascism only rose to power as a reaction to Bolshevism. Without the successful Bolshevik revolution in Russia (and bloody but unsuccessful attempts in Germany, Hungary, etc.), anti-Communist nationalist movements wouldn't have appealed much to the people of Europe.