Why Do Honorable Soldiers Commit Suicide?

[okcitykid]

06-16-2003 A 24-year old combat veteran intentionally overdosed while in Iraq the day after Father's Day.

07-03-2003 A 20-year old Army private first class based out of Fort Polk, LA committed suicide while serving in Iraq with the 502nd Military Intelligence Company, 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment.

07-04-2003 A 36-year old Army Master Sgt., who'd been evacuated from Kuwait 2 weeks earlier following an overdose, hung himself while getting treatment for PTSD.

01-12-2004 A 43-year old Army Spc., who'd been evacuated from Iraq due to debilitating back pain, hung himself with the sash of his bathrobe while getting treatment for PTSD at Walter Reed Army Medical Center.

01-17-2004 A 28-year old Army Specialist who'd recently re-enlisted "walked out of the 101st Airborne base at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, checked into a motel room, and put a Do Not Disturb sign on the door. The police discovered his body four days later, along with containers of household poison.

03-07-2004 An 18-year old Marine was found dead of a gunshot wound to the head while deployed in Kuwait. He was found in a chapel, military investigators listing it as a suicide.

03-14-2004 A 36-year old Army Special Forces Chief Warrant Officer and Iraq vet based out of Fort Carson, CO committed suicide a mere three weeks after returning home to his wife and three children.

03-18-2004 A 6-times decorated executive officer of the Army Reserve's 909th Forward Surgical Team having returned from combat duty in Afghanistan shot and killed himself.

03-21-2004 A 22-year old Marine combat rifleman hanged himself with is own belt in his apartment, from his bathroom showerhead, two months after being honorably discharged.

05-27-2004 A 33-year old staff sergeant (based out of Fort Jackson, SC), state trooper, and Gulf War I vet returned from a year's deployment in Iraq afraid of seeking psychological help because of what it might mean for his career.

06-22-2004 A 23-year old Marine Reserve who fought in the battle of Nasiriyah hung himself a year after returning home from military duty.

06-22-2004 A 36-year old Persian Gulf War combat veteran, who'd served in Saudi Arabia and Iraq, committed suicide following a 13 year struggle with PTSD.

08-00-2004 A 40-year old Special Forces Seargant based out of Fort Carson, CO shot himself six weeks after he returned from Iraq.

08-18-2004 A 48-year old New Hampshire National Guardsman died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound a mere day after returning home from Iraq.

09-24-2004 A 23-year old Army communications specialist who'd served a 10 month tour in Afghanistan committed suicide 3 weeks after his return home to his family.

11-05-2004 An Army Captain fatally shot himself in the chest a year after returning from Iraq.

12-06-2004 A 25-year old Iraqi vet based out of Fort Riley, KS, husband and father of two, hanged himself in his barracks.

01-09-2005 A 19-year old combat veteran and Marine who'd told family members he didn't want to return to Iraq fired on Modesto police officers in an apparent premeditated ambush ("suicide by cop").

02-03-2005 A 34-year old Special Forces soldier who'd served in Afghanistan shot himself "at his ex-wife's home near the North Carolina base.

-2-28-2005 A 26-year old Marine who'd personally been reenlisted by the Secretary of the Navy, Gordon R. England, at the peak of Mount Suribachi above Iwo Jima the year before, committed suicide.

04-17-2005 A 30-year old Delaware Air National Guard crew chief committed suicide six days after returning from Uzbekistan.

06-04-2005 A 44-year old Army colonel and leading scholar of military ethics (whose dissertation had been on the meaning of honor) committed suicide in a military base trailer near Baghdad airport. Shooting himself once in the head with his service pistol, he became the highest-ranking officer to die in Iraq (at the time).

06-20-2005 A 19-year old Iowa Army National Guardsman who was distraught at the news of his 22-year old brother's death in Iraq, stepped in front of a highway pickup truck killing himself instantly.

07-09-2005 A 23-year old Iraq veteran attached to the 10th Special Forces Group based at Fort Carson, CO hanged himself in the post barracks about a month after returning from Iraq.

07-26-2005 A 23-year old Iraq combat vet, only 11 days earlier decorated with the Army's Combat Action Badge, shot himself in Tacoma, WA.

07-30-2005 A 24-year old Fort Hood [Killeen, TX] Army soldier died "from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

08-01-2005 A 22-year old Fort Hood Army radio operator-maintainer who'd signed up with the military as a teen, "was found dead in his apartment by Killeen police, who were alerted after members of his unit tried to contact him when he failed to report to work. ... [T]he cause of death was listed as asphyxiation."

09-16-2005 A 53-year old retired brigadier general who'd served in Grenada, Panama, and Iraq committed suicide by shooting himself with a 9mm pistol.

11-08-2005 A 20-year old marine lance corporal -- following 9 months combat duty in Iraq -- killed himself 6 weeks after returning home to his family in Oregon.

12-22-2005 A 22-year old Army Reserve soldier based in Davenport, IA committed suicide a year after returning from an 11 month tour of duty in Iraq.

01-16-2006 A 37-year old Army National Guard Iraq combat zone truck driver who drove "supply convoys along the shooting gallery between Baghdad Airport and LSA Anaconda in Balad -- a giant military base...subject to so many mortar and rocket attacks that the troops have renamed it Mortaritaville," committed suicide.

03-03-2006 A 23-year old "2000 Penn Manor graduate [who'd] served five months with the Army in Iraq in 2003, [shooting] at a tank, killing three Iraqis" killed himself after his struggle with PTSD.

May they rest in peace.

I don't believe they will go to hell either, they have already been there. What do you think - Are we asking to much of them?

[Tickle Me Goody]

I don't believe they will go to hell either, they have already been there. What do you think - Are we asking to much of them?

I suspect that it may be because of the distain that they see at home.

Certainly that was a big problem after Vietnam.

Just a guess

[Darth Executor]

Us soldiers have it pretty well compared to most of the armies we're fighting.

For the record, I've found at least one item on the list that wasn't a suicide and many items that simply state a former vet killed himself with no mention of whether they killed themselves because of Iraq.

[okcitykid]

I suspect that it may be because of the distain that they see at home.

Certainly that was a big problem after Vietnam.

Just a guess

Good guess - I have a veterans for peace t-shirt, and on the back of it in big letters it says, "Honor the warrior not the war." We voted on that, because we were all in the military and know how it is.

I've had people throw beer bottles at me and call me names and give me the finger, all kinds of stuff as if Vietnam and Richard Nixon's impeachment was my fault.

If I ever saw anyone being disrespectful to a soldier, we would fight, trust me, there are a lot of hard feelings there.

But why are we asking them to go to Iraq and kill people? That's not very nice is it? What if somebody made you go to Iraq and kill people, would you like it? Them volunteer soldiers can't keep going back there rotating tours just because they volunteered and others won't and we don't want to have a draft. It has to stop.

But if you want to honor a soldier and support the war - then run right down to your recruiters office and replace one of those warn out tired soldiers.

You know, A bunch of old grannies did that, and you know what they did to them, they arrested them.


The trial opened in New York on Thursday of 18 grandmothers arrested for disorderly conduct after they sought to enlist in the U.S. Army as a protest against the war in Iraq.


http://www.vaiw.org/vet/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2414&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0&POSTNUKESID=658590d01df853d698a2dc8bec7d34e2

By the way - where were you during Vietnam?

[Tickle Me Goody]

By the way - where were you during Vietnam?

Designing and building weapons for our troops.

[okcitykid]

Us soldiers have it pretty well compared to most of the armies we're fighting.

For the record, I've found at least one item on the list that wasn't a suicide and many items that simply state a former vet killed himself with no mention of whether they killed themselves because of Iraq.

The list is a little out of date and its not complete, and of course, we don't really know that they committed suicide because of Iraq, it could be all that green was just to sickening for them, you know, it could be a lot of things.

or maybe - they were taught to kill, and there was nobody around to kill, so they killed themselves - I bet that was it - huh?


Us soldiers have it pretty well compared to most of the armies we're fighting.

What armies are we fighting Darth - did I miss something? Most of the Armies that were with them, they went home (to stay), so they would be better off in one of those other armies I would think.

I know its not your fault Darth, so don't blame yourself - Them soldiers like to kill things and you just wanted them to have the chance - Darth you're just so nice to those soldiers, and I bet they just can't wait to come home and thank you for supporting the effort to send them to Iraq.

[okcitykid]

Designing and building weapons for our troops.

I wasn't in Vietnam either, I was just a kid who would have been drafted if it didn't end and was told to join the National Guard as early as possible.

When I came of age I joined the Navy and served with a lot of Nam vets who couldn't maintain themselves in the civilian world.

This isn't Vietnam, it's a little different but somewhat the same. I just can't believe we did this again.

In Vietnam our soldiers didn't know who the enemy was, it was either kill everyone or no one - it was very confusing.

Now here we are again, not knowing who the enemy is. There were warnings that this is not a job for the military and nobody listened.

[Tickle Me Goody]

Now here we are again, not knowing who the enemy is. There were warnings that this is not a job for the military and nobody listened.

You are young enough to have the answers. I am old enough not to have them. We do know some things and that is that we have an enemy who wants to destroy us. He uses methods that "civilized" people will not.

One thing is clear. We need either to acquire the information that allows us to idntify them before they harm us or else be able to accept what happens when we do not have that knowlege.

I think

[Darth Executor]

The list is a little out of date and its not complete, and of course, we don't really know that they committed suicide because of Iraq, it could be all that green was just to sickening for them, you know, it could be a lot of things.

or maybe - they were taught to kill, and there was nobody around to kill, so they killed themselves - I bet that was it - huh?

Or maybe I couldn't care less about your speculation and the OP makes you look like a dishonest piece of crap?




What armies are we fighting Darth - did I miss something? Most of the Armies that were with them, they went home (to stay), so they would be better off in one of those other armies I would think.

This paragraph makes absolutely no sense. Please rephrase.


I know its not your fault Darth, so don't blame yourself - Them soldiers like to kill things and you just wanted them to have the chance - Darth you're just so nice to those soldiers, and I bet they just can't wait to come home and thank you for supporting the effort to send them to Iraq.

Still stupid? Ok. :whistle:

[Tladatsi]

The unbearable burden of war, especially modern war, is just too much for some soldiers. Suicide, mental instability, alcoholism, etc. are the by-products of all wars. Enest Hemingway, who had served in Italy during WW I, said


Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime.

People who fight in wars know this on one level or an other and it is not something some can live with. I saw a man in his 80s start crying remembers events sixty years earlier in WW II in France. If men did what they do during war in peace time, they would be hung as wild criminals if not sent off to some mental hospital. Rod Serling, the creator and writer of The Twilight Zone, had served as an airborne marine during WW II. He and his comrades were dropped far behind Japanese lines. An armored column was supposed to punch through and releave them in a few days. It did not get there for weeks. He and his fellow marines were trapped in jungle nightmare, surrounded by hunger, pain, thirst, heat, poisonous animals, and of course the Japanese. Every day he would look around at his comardes and know that some would die a painful deaths before the day was out. He survived but for the rest of his life, he would wake up screaming every night.

War is hell. No one gets out unscarred.


I don't believe they will go to hell either, they have already been there. What do you think - Are we asking to much of them?

[okcitykid]

Or maybe I couldn't care less about your speculation and the OP makes you look like a dishonest piece of crap?

Calling a person a piece of crap is not conducive to a productive conversation.

[okcitykid]

You are young enough to have the answers. I am old enough not to have them. We do know some things and that is that we have an enemy who wants to destroy us. He uses methods that "civilized" people will not.

One thing is clear. We need either to acquire the information that allows us to idntify them before they harm us or else be able to accept what happens when we do not have that knowlege.

I think

I will admit that there is a threat. This threat is not new, it has been around as long as I have been and even longer. Despite our military and covert activities, it has greatly increased. The solution it seems would be energy independence, as it is profit from oil money that fuels the fire.

If we spent half the amount of energy, time and money on energy independence rather than military and covert activities, I believe that the threat would be minute and many lives would be saved and even the threat of global warming would be lessoned, and we can have our transparent government, free speech, freedom of information and our privacy.

You being in the weapons business know that there are great profits to be had. Of course I believe that everyone should be allowed to make a buck. But when one person makes a buck another person looses a buck, so therefore these things must be governed to insure fair trade. There is no reason why weapons manufactures can't look into other trades for production rather than buy a party to promote war during peace time.

[okcitykid]

The unbearable burden of war, especially modern war, is just too much for some soldiers. Suicide, mental instability, alcoholism, etc. are the by-products of all wars. Enest Hemingway, who had served in Italy during WW I, said



People who fight in wars know this on one level or an other and it is not something some can live with. I saw a man in his 80s start crying remembers events sixty years earlier in WW II in France. If men did what they do during war in peace time, they would be hung as wild criminals if not sent off to some mental hospital. Rod Serling, the creator and writer of The Twilight Zone, had served as an airborne marine during WW II. He and his comrades were dropped far behind Japanese lines. An armored column was supposed to punch through and releave them in a few days. It did not get there for weeks. He and his fellow marines were trapped in jungle nightmare, surrounded by hunger, pain, thirst, heat, poisonous animals, and of course the Japanese. Every day he would look around at his comardes and know that some would die a painful deaths before the day was out. He survived but for the rest of his life, he would wake up screaming every night.

War is hell. No one gets out unscarred.

I think this picture says it all:
http://photos.bravenet.com/362/686/737/4/009D69F57C.jpg

[Tickle Me Goody]

I will admit that there is a threat. This threat is not new, it has been around as long as I have been and even longer. Despite our military and covert activities, it has greatly increased. The solution it seems would be energy independence, as it is profit from oil money that fuels the fire. I see no logic in this paragraph. The terrorists have nothing to do with oil.





You being in the weapons business know that there are great profits to be had.

Believe it or not, my group was motivated by patriotism, not company profits.



Of course I believe that everyone should be allowed to make a buck. But when one person makes a buck another person looses a buck, so therefore these things must be governed to insure fair trade. There is no reason why weapons manufactures can't look into other trades for production rather than buy a party to promote war during peace time.

You seem too young to be so cynical.

[okcitykid]

I see no logic in this paragraph. The terrorists have nothing to do with oil.


Believe it or not, my group was motivated by patriotism, not company profits.




You seem too young to be so cynical.

So they don't make any money, they do what they do for the luv of this country?

I think we should all be patriots, no one should profit off of war.

[Darth Executor]

Calling a person a piece of crap is not conducive to a productive conversation.

Implying I'm sending soldiers to murder Iraqis (as if a Canadian has the ability to do that) isn`t `conducive to a productive conversation` either but that didn`t stop you from doing it, genius. I think most people who know me will agree that I have been uncharacteristically generous to you so far by not insulting you in every post (even though you deserve it). I`d advise you to not take advantage of my generosity.

[cbro]

Good guess - I have a veterans for peace t-shirt, and on the back of it in big letters it says, "Honor the warrior not the war." We voted on that, because we were all in the military and know how it is.

I've had people throw beer bottles at me and call me names and give me the finger, all kinds of stuff as if Vietnam and Richard Nixon's impeachment was my fault.

If I ever saw anyone being disrespectful to a soldier, we would fight, trust me, there are a lot of hard feelings there.

But why are we asking them to go to Iraq and kill people? That's not very nice is it? What if somebody made you go to Iraq and kill people, would you like it? Them volunteer soldiers can't keep going back there rotating tours just because they volunteered and others won't and we don't want to have a draft. It has to stop.

But if you want to honor a soldier and support the war - then run right down to your recruiters office and replace one of those warn out tired soldiers.

You know, A bunch of old grannies did that, and you know what they did to them, they arrested them.



http://www.vaiw.org/vet/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2414&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0&POSTNUKESID=658590d01df853d698a2dc8bec7d34e2

By the way - where were you during Vietnam?You were in the military but don't know how horrible is war and PTSD? Or is your OP just another piece of unthinking emotional Liberal trash?

[okcitykid]

Implying I'm sending soldiers to murder Iraqis (as if a Canadian has the ability to do that) isn`t `conducive to a productive conversation` either but that didn`t stop you from doing it, genius. I think most people who know me will agree that I have been uncharacteristically generous to you so far by not insulting you in every post (even though you deserve it). I`d advise you to not take advantage of my generosity.

So I should be thankful that you only called me a piece of crap - come on Darth, name calling does not win or loose any arguments and neither do threats.

Neither does pretending that you don't understand what I'm saying, but then maybe you don't understand. Should I use smaller words.


Quote:

What armies are we fighting Darth - did I miss something? Most of the Armies that were with them, they went home (to stay), so they would be better off in one of those other armies I would think.




This paragraph makes absolutely no sense. Please rephrase.


Maybe because you are Canadian you don't know that we are not fighting any armies in Iraq.

Canada is a Democracy isn't it, Canada does support this war doesn't it?

Do you support this war?

[okcitykid]

You were in the military but don't know how horrible is war and PTSD? Or is your OP just another piece of unthinking emotional Liberal trash?

So the solution would be to continue sending them back to Iraq?

I do care - I'm asking that we bring them home now.

Do you care? Will you join me? or will you continue to wave the flag and say ra ra as we send our soldiers off to war?

http://www.bringthemhomenow.com/

[cbro]

So the solution would be to continue sending them back to Iraq?

I do care - I'm asking that we bring them home now.

Do you care? Will you join me? or will you continue to wave the flag and say ra ra as we send our soldiers off to war?

http://www.bringthemhomenow.com/So you have no good reason for doing it except for how sure you are that nothing is worth dying for. Which Psychology can explain why you are so committed to such a bad idea. So this forum you chose for this post may lead you to the help you need to deal with your pain in a more thinking way.

[Darth Executor]

So I should be thankful that you only called me a piece of crap - come on Darth, name calling does not win or loose any arguments and neither do threats.

You should stay civilized yourself or stop expecting me to be nice to you.


Neither does pretending that you don't understand what I'm saying, but then maybe you don't understand. Should I use smaller words.

Learning proper English would certainly help with this problem. Allow me to explain:


What armies are we fighting Darth - did I miss something? Most of the Armies that were with them

Who are `them`?
Lesson 1: do not use pronouns unless the person you are talking to knows who the pronoun refers to. I have no idea who them is. I don`t live in your head and I don`t have the ability to read every inane thought that goes through your mind
Lesson 2: You implied that we are not fighting any army then go on to describe some sort of benefit of being in this army that doesn`t exist. This is known as a contradiction. Avoid them.


they went home (to stay), so they would be better off in one of those other armies I would think.

Who went home to stay? Wolves? Terrorists? All the king`s men? Be specific. If you are referring to the army we`re fighting, how is it better? They`re getting slaughtered. The only reason why they cause any trouble at all is because they often target unarmed civillians and we can`t protect them all.




Maybe because you are Canadian you don't know that we are not fighting any armies in Iraq.

Maybe because you don`t know much English (is it your second language? If it is, I`ll try to be more patient in the future) you don`t realise that words have more than one meaning. Dictionary.com gives the following definitions of the word, all of which fit my use of the word:

3.a large body of persons trained and armed for war.
4.any body of persons organized for any purpose: an army of census takers.
5.a very large number or group of something; a great multitude; a host: the army of the unemployed.


Canada is a Democracy isn't it,

Yes.


Canada does support this war doesn't it?

No, it doesn`t.


Do you support this war?

Yes.

[cbro]

I think this picture says it all:
http://photos.bravenet.com/362/686/737/4/009D69F57C.jpgIs that why you are sure that nothing is worth dying for. Which Psychology can explain why you are so committed to such a bad idea. So this forum you chose for this post may lead you to the help you need to deal with your pain in a more thinking way.

[okcitykid]

Is that why you are sure that nothing is worth dying for. Which Psychology can explain why you are so committed to such a bad idea. So this forum you chose for this post may lead you to the help you need to deal with your pain in a more thinking way.

Were do u come up with nothing is worth dying for?

So is it a good thing that all these soldiers committed suicide?

Did they commit suicide for some worthy cause?

If so - please explain - I'm listening?

[cbro]

Were do u come up with nothing is worth dying for?

So is it a good thing that all these soldiers committed suicide?

Did they commit suicide for some worthy cause?

If so - please explain - I'm listening?I will believe you are listening and not just waiting to talk when stop asking retorical questions. Which is only going to happen when you get the help you need to deal with your pain in a thinking way.

[Tickle Me Goody]

So they don't make any money, they do what they do for the luv of this country?

They earn a living just like you do. The engineers who "make it happen" are not the one's raking in big profits and patiotism often is a necessary motivation when the heat is on.

Companies themselves are not necessarily ethical. They can rake in profits whether for war or for peace. If you think that some windmill outfit, solar battery company, or government funded activity is going to be sweet and pure, then you have been swilling down way too much liberal philospohy.

Canned philosphies (liberal or conservative) lead to nothing but closed minded error.

[okcitykid]

They earn a living just like you do. The engineers who "make it happen" are not the one's raking in big profits and patiotism often is a necessary motivation when the heat is on.

Companies themselves are not necessarily ethical. They can rake in profits whether for war or for peace. If you think that some windmill outfit, solar battery company, or government funded activity is going to be sweet and pure, then you have been swilling down way too much liberal philospohy.

Canned philosphies (liberal or conservative) lead to nothing but closed minded error.

I do partially agree with you, I had some guy in Canada blame me for that girl who got raped and burned to death in Iraq because I pay taxes, it really did kinda hurt my feelings.


Companies themselves are not necessarily ethical. They can rake in profits whether for war or for peace.

Thank you, During the cold war, they made a killing didn't they? But now that the cold war has ended, now what? We can see a lot of people make a lot of money because of this war. Even the state I live in has grown rich.

My wife is a school teacher and there are lay offs and schools are closing. Fireman and police Officers are being laid off. The superintendent of my wifes school says, "Hope that there is a war because the money will flow." Strangely he was right and my wife is getting a pay raise and we're building schools now instead of closing them.

Our Congressmen and Senators are loaded and Cheney is loaded with millions.

Do you see a trend here?

You might want to look at this:

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/15/1334249&mode=thread&tid=25

[okcitykid]

I will believe you are listening and not just waiting to talk when stop asking retorical questions. Which is only going to happen when you get the help you need to deal with your pain in a thinking way.

Thanks for caring - I'm not always sure, but I think I'm ok.

Support The Troops and pray for the wisdom of our leaders.

[okcitykid]

Maybe because you don`t know much English (is it your second language? If it is, I`ll try to be more patient in the future) you don`t realise that words have more than one meaning. Dictionary.com gives the following definitions of the word, all of which fit my use of the word:

3.a large body of persons trained and armed for war.
4.any body of persons organized for any purpose: an army of census takers.
5.a very large number or group of something; a great multitude; a host: the army of the unemployed.


Is that what you meant by Army?

Why should our troops be committing suicide, They should be thankful they're not Iraqi.

[Tladatsi]

I think this picture says it all:
http://photos.bravenet.com/362/686/737/4/009D69F57C.jpg

The link did not work. I got a 403 error, access denied.

[okcitykid]

Quote: Originally posted by okcitykid

I think this picture says it all:
http://photos.bravenet.com/362/686/737/4/009D69F57C.jpg





The link did not work. I got a 403 error, access denied.


Works fine for me, try it again, it must have been just one of those Internet things.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Darth I thought you were Translyvanian?

[cbro]

Thanks for caring - I'm not always sure, but I think I'm ok.

Support The Troops and pray for the wisdom of our leaders.AMEN to that!!

[Harfelugan]

I don't believe they will go to hell either, they have already been there. What do you think - Are we asking to much of them?
Suicides are commited by people who are not functioning in a normal state of mental or emotional control that cannot be regained with the passage of time like something as trivial as an act of rage. This makes it an act that generally cannot be attributed to a concious act of the will. Leaving it in the category where we cannot pronounce their judgement but must leave it to God who knows the hearts and their belief in Jesus as Savior. We are asking to much of our soldiers in that the cost of war is payed out with their blood and if they are fortunate to survive it is payed out in various forms of anguish throughout the remainder of their lives. But there is no other option, at times it is a necessity. Was Iraq one of them? It's too late to bother with that now. Should they be brought home now? Thats for our leaders and military to decide, we are a democracy, not a nation of popular concensus. Someones been watching to many movies and tv shows. Who are these soldiers? They aren't Rambo types, they are our fathers, brothers, and sons. Now they are even our mothers, sisters, and daughters. This is our viscious army out to kill the poor Iraq's? They should feel fortunate they are not in the hands of any other army in this world. And we should be proud that our soldiers make war using the values and integrity that matches the talk and walk of our society. Why do they commit suicide? The where does'nt matter, the cause is the same. The human mind wasn't designed to contain the anguish of war and like every other stimula it must have some form of release to maintain sanity. The problem with war anguish is that it is renewed by the mind on a regular basis and triggered by any of the 5 senses at any time. For many it never goes away. In my immediate family alone in the last 40 years we have lost 4 war vets to suicide and one suicide while serving. They were decent family men who were conditioned to using the words nip, gook, kraut, or towel head to often but never relished the death around them. They would also be the first to tell you that someone has man that line.

[okcitykid]

I believe there is a time for war and a time for peace and having a strong defense is important. War should always be the last option, never the first.

To say we shouldn't have is to late, we have and they did.

But to continue rotating these guys back there - its wrong, its time for their sake we stand up and say enough is enough.

[cbro]

Thanks for caring - I'm not always sure, but I think I'm ok.

Support The Troops and pray for the wisdom of our leaders.Amen to that! The best support they need is to do what is needed for these them to get the Psychology help they need to overcome their problems, like suicide. I also agree that "...to continue rotating these guys back there - its wrong, its time for their sake we stand up and say enough is enough." Which means that we pray for ourselves as well as our leaders to do what is right. So to sacrifice as they are doing.

[Rahab]

I don't believe they will go to hell either, they have already been there. What do you think - Are we asking to much of them?

Bonsoir okcitykid,

I deplore that this thread took a turn towards its exploitation for a political agenda. I do not view using the dead to promote political views as a positive choice.

That said, since you placed your OP in the psychology forum, shall we attempt to explore which conditions and experiences may lead some servicemembers to suicide?

Combine these and see how they can affect their mental and emotional health :

- long term separation from family members.
- displacement from their original culture and immersion into an adversarial culture. (I do not suppose every single deployed servicemember to the Middle East benefits of "endoc", a term you may be familiar with as an ex "squid").
- high stress inducing combat situations.
- sleep deprivation
- hostile environment
- physical fatigue
- exposure to various traumatic sights such as uncovering corpses of children and women.
- constant state of readiness

I will assume that much more could be added to that list of conditions which can induce depression .Either latent and building up progressively to a moment of intense despair or the "snapping" effect, sudden and without any percievable warning signs.

It seems to matter not where and why a war is being conducted. What matters is how much psychological preparation to induce a state of resistance to and endurance of those conditions each person has been given.

Take reservists for example... can we assume safely that one week end a month and one continuous thirty days active duty suffice to prepare them for such conditions of life?

The military life in itself is harsh. It promotes a devotion to service where even family life has to be sacrified. Duty always has to prevail.

Do we ask too much of them? In general, we take them for granted. We forget their humanity. We see a uniform meaning "serving my country". We dismiss that Joe's wife sent a "Dear John letter". Or that his mother is dying and getting emergency leave orders out of Irak will not get him home on time to say good bye.

Suicide in itself is a tragedy.One we cannot always understand and accept as a moment of considering human existence to be worthless.

That is all I wish to share in this thread.

[cbro]

QUOTE=Rahab Bonsoir okcitykid,

I deplore that this thread took a turn towards its exploitation for a political agenda. I do not view using the dead to promote political views as a positive choice.

That said, since you placed your OP in the psychology forum, shall we attempt to explore which conditions and experiences may lead some servicemembers to suicide?

Combine these and see how they can affect their mental and emotional health :

- long term separation from family members.
- displacement from their original culture and immersion into an adversarial culture. (I do not suppose every single deployed servicemember to the Middle East benefits of "endoc", a term you may be familiar with as an ex "squid").
- high stress inducing combat situations.
- sleep deprivation
- hostile environment
- physical fatigue
- exposure to various traumatic sights such as uncovering corpses of children and women.
- constant state of readiness

I will assume that much more could be added to that list of conditions which can induce depression .Either latent and building up progressively to a moment of intense despair or the "snapping" effect, sudden and without any percievable warning signs.

It seems to matter not where and why a war is being conducted. What matters is how much psychological preparation to induce a state of resistance to and endurance of those conditions each person has been given.

Take reservists for example... can we assume safely that one week end a month and one continuous thirty days active duty suffice to prepare them for such conditions of life?

The military life in itself is harsh. It promotes a devotion to service where even family life has to be sacrified. Duty always has to prevail.

Do we ask too much of them? In general, we take them for granted. We forget their humanity. We see a uniform meaning "serving my country". We dismiss that Joe's wife sent a "Dear John letter". Or that his mother is dying and getting emergency leave orders out of Irak will not get him home on time to say good bye.

Suicide in itself is a tragedy.One we cannot always understand and accept as a moment of considering human existence to be worthless.

That is all I wish to share in this thread.


That is enought to share to give one of the Best answers to the OP. The only thing that could be better, is to use this understanding to overcome those suicides.

[Malista_Dove]

There are so many individuals commiting suicide. There has been about 40 in my fiance's brigade that he is in. It is very scary to know that they can easily snap. I know this because I have to make sure my fiance takes his medicine, otherwise he starts to get suicidal thoughts.All that they have to see and do in Iraq..messed with their heads. Almost all of the people in his brigade are on medication for post-traumatic stress and depression. If they are not attempting suicide, they are beating their loved ones. I know many people who suffer from the war, both soldiers and their spouses. I think it is time we get our troops out of the war...They expect too much out of our loved ones..