Range Patrol #5: Across the Elapine Line [Archive]

jpholding

October 5th 2006, 12:23 PM

Uh... mr H, in http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/hearthstone.html You call "Annals: Range Patrol #5" "Annals: Range Patrol #4" so now we have that standing there twice.

Gahhh...ok, took care of it.

I'm actually maintaining parallel versions of all these pages what with the revamp in progress. Finished the ST #3 revamp yesterday, BTW, and September screwballs today:

http://www.tektoonics.com/parody/sep06scr.html

And inks are 1/5 done on RP #5.

Do they have tanks or warships on Hearthstone?

Tanks, no -- I don't think steam power would be conducive to use of heavy- tonnage ground-roving war machines. To make up for that I envision hand-held weapons having developed farther than ours have.

Warships, yes -- there was a Prycene naval vessel in RP #4.

I want to know the specifcs of grainfruit. The name has piqued my curiosity. How is it used? What is the taste of the fruit? Are there recipies for it? Grainfruit... it gives me this image of a fruit filled with barley in its meat. And that sends me strange vibes.

I have actually thought of this. I imagine it to indeed have a grainy texture, somewhat like certain types of pear. I see it as a favorite fruit of the Sk'lan, native to the Northwest but grown in Nullabor too along the small strips of fertile coast.

The Curtmudgeon

October 5th 2006, 03:15 PM

I want to know the specifcs of grainfruit. The name has piqued my curiosity. How is it used? What is the taste of the fruit? Are there recipies for it? Grainfruit... it gives me this image of a fruit filled with barley in its meat. And that sends me strange vibes.

Surely you know that we have breadfruit trees here on Earth? As in Mutiny on the Bounty?

There's also eggplants that don't contain egg.

The (now if it was venisonfruit that would be different) Curtmudgeon

October 5th 2006, 05:57 PM

I have actually thought of this. I imagine it to indeed have a grainy texture, somewhat like certain types of pear. I see it as a favorite fruit of the Sk'lan, native to the Northwest but grown in Nullabor too along the small strips of fertile coast.

The fact that you've given more thought to fruit than one of Hearthstone's major religions frightens me, JP.

But that's nothing new. :rasberry:

Anyway, the first three pages look excellent.

Darth Executor

October 5th 2006, 06:02 PM

I find it much easier to design fruit than to design religions.

Darth Executor

October 5th 2006, 06:55 PM

Tanks, no -- I don't think steam power would be conducive to use of heavy- tonnage ground-roving war machines. To make up for that I envision hand-held weapons having developed farther than ours have.

They can just use their mag lev engines. They do have huge trains, so their levitation technology can support large vehicles, and they have beam weapons which eliminate the problem of recoil from firing big guns. Plus I wanted to see a tank. :frown: Maybe one of the sides can invent one and give the other some trouble? (*hint hint* :teeth:)

Leonhard

October 5th 2006, 07:45 PM

They can just use their mag lev engines. They do have huge trains, so their levitation technology can support large vehicles, and they have beam weapons which eliminate the problem of recoil from firing big guns. Plus I wanted to see a tank. :frown: Maybe one of the sides can invent one and give the other some trouble? (*hint hint* :teeth:)

Actually I worked out an analysis of these things, though I cannot post it since this forum doesn't support equations.

The trains become possible by having a low aerodynamic coefficient (as all trains have) and zero rolling resistance, they are entirely possible with the proposed steam technology. However they do have a slow acceleration, it takes a while for it to get up to its speed and tanks have to be very manouverable. The power needed to climb a hill at steady speed can be quite large.

Btw I'm reworking this analysis now and updating its math and removing bugs, and I'll soon be able to send it too ya mr H. I will even include some wonderings about the magnetic propulsion and how that will affect their realism.

Teallaura

October 5th 2006, 08:10 PM

Screen print it and then upload it as an attachment.

Teallaura

October 5th 2006, 08:28 PM

2nd page, sixth panel: "I don't know what is is."

[Unless Bill Clinton has become a female Elapine! :teeth: ]

Darth Executor

October 5th 2006, 08:32 PM

Actually I worked out an analysis of these things, though I cannot post it since this forum doesn't support equations.

The trains become possible by having a low aerodynamic coefficient (as all trains have) and zero rolling resistance, they are entirely possible with the proposed steam technology. However they do have a slow acceleration, it takes a while for it to get up to its speed and tanks have to be very manouverable. The power needed to climb a hill at steady speed can be quite large.

All the reading I've done suggests that maglevs have very high acceleration rates. OTOH, I also know that hover vehicles aren't very manouverable.

Leonhard

October 5th 2006, 10:45 PM

All the reading I've done suggests that maglevs have very high acceleration rates. OTOH, I also know that hover vehicles aren't very manouverable.

I think your thinking about a linear induction motor, where the track itself is the engine. That way, you can generate the power externally and just pump as much energy into the vehicle, as you want. In Hearthstone it appears that the magnetic field of the planet is a strong and homogeneous field that runs at right angles with the water line. A vehicle could propel itself using an electromagnet, but its only practical, if the planets magnetic field is sufficiently strong. Unless they have access to really strong superconducters :teeth:

The calculations I made so far only considers the vehicles as steam rockets (superheated steam expelled through a nozzle). Except for the train which I consider a turbine driven fan system. I'm gonna include something about how magnetic propulsion could be used.

When I'm done, I'll have it all factored in, along with some guestimates here and there.

Screen print it and then upload it as an attachment.

For the sake of those without ultra high bandwith connection I'll refrain from doing so. Its over 15 pages long and still growing! I think open office is capable of making PDFs, no?

Teallaura

October 6th 2006, 01:37 AM

Dunno - on dial up and Open Office is too big for me to download.... :sad:

Besides, I thought you wanted to show an equation? :eh:

:shrug: Oh well....

Abykale

October 6th 2006, 02:21 AM

I'll let the speculation rest and/or continue uncommented to see if anyone comes close or gets it. Maybe even come up with a prize for anyone who gets it right.

What popped into my head while looking at page two is that maybe . . . the Sk'lan have some new (very new) technology that allows them to actually change their form into that of another race. So this guy is really a Sk'lan (his grammar, and rough behavior, also make sense then). The Range Patrol finds out about it, or perhaps gets ahold of it, which is why Beamer would suddenly have a chance with Sheila. :stunned:
Well, there are other, saner explanations that come to mind, but . . . Beamer as an Elapine . . . now I want to see a picture of that. :teeth:

Darth Executor

October 6th 2006, 08:40 AM

A vehicle could propel itself using an electromagnet, but its only practical, if the planets magnetic field is sufficiently strong. Unless they have access to really strong superconducters :teeth:

Well, the planet's magnetic field is strong enough to lift the train off the ground, and a tank would be much smaller, so I don't see why they couldn't make an engine strong enough to propel it. Of course, their tech level is up to JP...

The calculations I made so far only considers the vehicles as steam rockets (superheated steam expelled through a nozzle). Except for the train which I consider a turbine driven fan system. I'm gonna include something about how magnetic propulsion could be used.

When I'm done, I'll have it all factored in, along with some guestimates here and there.

Is it gonna be in layman's terms or will the rest of us stare at it and go :duh:?

jpholding

October 6th 2006, 10:48 AM

The fact that you've given more thought to fruit than one of Hearthstone's major religions frightens me, JP.

I'd rather eat than join a cult. :rasberry:

Anyway, the first three pages look excellent.

Thanks. I've been getting more pointers from my expert consult. He's been looking over the stick-figure storyboards and making suggestions. He's got expertise in cinematic staging so I've definitely got good input coming in.

They can just use their mag lev engines. They do have huge trains, so their levitation technology can support large vehicles, and they have beam weapons which eliminate the problem of recoil from firing big guns

Speed would still be an issue. I set a max maglev speed of 30 MPH. A tank with all its add ons and a smaller engine would be a sitting duck at 10-12 MPH, would it not? (Whoops, just read Leon's analysis. He said the same sorta thing, only in tech talk. :shocked:

Maybe one of the sides can invent one and give the other some trouble?

Hey, you already helped invent the troublemaker weapon. :glare: Be happy. I think the killer robots are the closest Hearthstone will get to tanks. They'd be way more maneuverable than a tank they'd make, no?

How's an army made up of a mix of those robots and those mutant soldiers grab ya? It's coming.

2nd page, sixth panel: "I don't know what is is."

[Unless Bill Clinton has become a female Elapine!

I can only imagine what sort of dreams he's had. :hehe:

But thanks. Good news is I have an easy way to fix things like that. I'll do it next round. I may have three more pages tomorrow, or Monday.

Darth Executor

October 6th 2006, 10:54 AM

Speed would still be an issue. I set a max maglev speed of 30 MPH. A tank with all its add ons and a smaller engine would be a sitting duck at 10-12 MPH, would it not? (Whoops, just read Leon's analysis. He said the same sorta thing, only in tech talk. :shocked:

A tank would also be much smaller than those juggernaughts you made and tried to pass off as maglevs :teeth: which would balance out the speed problems. Modern tanks go at about 30mph off-road anyway (which isn't a problem for levitating vehicles).

Hey, you already helped invent the troublemaker weapon. :glare: Be happy. I think the killer robots are the closest Hearthstone will get to tanks. They'd be way more maneuverable than a tank they'd make, no?

How's an army made up of a mix of those robots and those mutant soldiers grab ya? It's coming.

Yes. I like massive battles. Hopefully it'll be more than a couple of frames. :rasberry:

jpholding

October 6th 2006, 10:56 AM

Yes. I like massive battles. Hopefully it'll be more than a couple of frames. :rasberry:

Humph.

Shrike Team, Range Patrol team, and Claw of Vengeance team one on side.

Army of Cartel robots and mutants on the other.

I think I'd need more than two frames to do that. :hehe:

Darth Executor

October 6th 2006, 01:52 PM

When are you starting the Claw of Vengeance series?

Teallaura

October 6th 2006, 02:02 PM

1) Um, what creates the steam? Wood, solar, geothermal (stored I'd guess :shrug:) - what?

2) How the heck would a maglev work in a magnetic field? I don't get how turning an electromagnet on and off inside a strong field would pull or push laterally? Up and down maybe (technically levitate, fall down, levitate, fall down... :teeth:) - but side to side? :huh: The field surrounds it (unlike modern maglevs that use the track) - what's it got to push/pull on?

3) Dorky Theory: Gravity propulsion. Rise off the ground to a sufficient height, push off (like a kid's scooter), rise a bit higher, let it fall (so that gravity is now pulling it both down and forward) and repeat using increasing heights to gain speed.

Stopping would be something of a headache, though... :teeth:

jpholding

October 6th 2006, 02:31 PM

When are you starting the Claw of Vengeance series?

I've done basic plots ahead up to the end of the Cartel cycle. (No shock, they lose.) Here's what seems to be devleoping.

The Claw of Vengeance series will essentially be an overlap with the current two titles. The name of the other two titles will be on the stories, but all three teams will be in them by the end of the cycle.

Precog of CoV will make a cameo apperance in ST #6.

The events which start the CoV team in motion will start in RP #8. That's when Cameron Derrick will first appear.

These events will continue through ST #10 which will be the defeat of the Cartel.

I seem to be able to get one of these out every 45-60 days, so you can estimate that we'll get to this stuff by this time next year.

After that I have an idea of CoV as a separate series, though not as regularly updated perhaps.

1) Um, what creates the steam? Wood, solar, geothermal (stored I'd guess ) - what?

I haven't decided, but Leon and I discussed it a bit and I would have to say that they have some compact stuff like peat moss that burns very efficiently.

2) How the heck would a maglev work in a magnetic field? I don't get how turning an electromagnet on and off inside a strong field would pull or push laterally?

The magic of polarium -- my miracle element. :wink: I have no idea if it would really work or not. I do assume that the polarium is somehow tuned with the magnetic field allowing objects to levitate. BTW there are two types of polarium: blue (the levitating stuff) and red (repels stuff; they use it in their armor).

I don't see the maglevs as using magnetism for propulsion. I do have (thanks to Darth) the Cartel using the magentic field energies with polarium to launch missiles, and that's an innovation by them. I also have one other use for it in mind.

October 6th 2006, 02:48 PM

I'd rather eat than join a cult. :rasberry:

Why? :hehe:

Just so long as we don't see a "pierogiefruit" showing up anytime in the near or distant future, I suppose I could let you off the hook. :wink:

jpholding

October 9th 2006, 01:29 PM

Darth Executor

October 9th 2006, 01:45 PM

What's my prize. Not food I hope, I just ate half a turkey. :yummy:

jpholding

October 9th 2006, 01:52 PM

What's my prize. Not food I hope, I just ate half a turkey. :yummy:

I wasn't talking 'bout YOU. :glare: You were generally right, but Aby wins the prize for being right in great detail. :rasberry:

But I'll still give you something since you're eating Skeptic for the day. Pick another page of original art....or suggest something else.

Darth Executor

October 9th 2006, 01:57 PM

I'm INTP, specifics bore me. :rasberry:

How does mailing stuff work? Do I have to send a prepaid envelope or something?

jpholding

October 9th 2006, 02:12 PM

I'm INTP, specifics bore me. :rasberry:

Eh. Get some J juice and wake up. :tongue:

How does mailing stuff work? Do I have to send a prepaid envelope or something?

No, I'll send it to you. It's not that expensive even to Canada. Send me a PM with the address and which page you want.

I've got to go make some photocopies...back later.

Leonhard

October 9th 2006, 02:25 PM

Three and a half more pages...

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5004.html

Someone here DID guess right! :wink:

This will be all until next week sometime because I have to go on the road. I'll still work on inks for this one (now done with 45 out of about 130 pages) and also the script for the crossover story. That one does look like it'll be twice normal size, so I'll make part 1 be ST #5 and part 2 be RP #6.

Well I was kinda suspecting it but my mind was going "Nah, no way!", that threat you gave me, about S'klans turning me into an allethene, was sorta the give away. I just thought it was a joke and not a leaked plot device.

Btw there is an error on rangtoon5006 (http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5006.html) picture rangtoon5006A is missing.

Ohhh, this is getting interesting :teeth: I not quite sure how Sheila would react. I hope she is understands it though, I mean he's doing it for her. I am torn here, will she be shocked and outraged, or would she understand but turn him off gently.

How much does she know about Beamers past? I mean, she doesn't seem to understand, why he seems to care so much for her. Maybe Beamer kept some of the grittier details hidden about his past. Is she completely oblivious to the fact of his devotion to her?

Can't wait to see where Jelica fits into all of this.

Thanks for keeping us on the edge of our seats, look forward to next installment.

jpholding

October 9th 2006, 04:05 PM

I just thought it was a joke and not a leaked plot device.

You gotta watch me. :wink:

Btw there is an error on rangtoon5006 (http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5006.html) picture rangtoon5006A is missing.

Hmm, anyone else missing this? I see it OK.

It's an exterior scene of the station at night, plus the door to Beamer's room with a light appearing underneath it.

Ohhh, this is getting interesting :teeth: I not quite sure how Sheila would react. I hope she is understands it though, I mean he's doing it for her. I am torn here, will she be shocked and outraged, or would she understand but turn him off gently.

Well, she'll see the result soon, as you may expect -- next upload will be the first impression -- but you know Beamer, the poor guy's got nerves when it comes to Sheila and it'll be a bit before he gets up enough guts to make his official move. :teeth: Meanwhile....how's best friend Bimf gonna react, too? A sidelight in itself!

How much does she know about Beamers past?

Odd you should ask, because there's a flashback coming much later that explains some critical parts of this. You're right, he hasn't talked to her about it at all, and it's horrible stuff. You can guess as much from how the Sk'lan were in RP #4.

Is she completely oblivious to the fact of his devotion to her?

That I will keep for later. :wink: Of course given this:

Can't wait to see where Jelica fits into all of this.

...the Beamer-Sheila relationship I obviously intend to be a dead end. Still, it is the "how" and "why" that will make the story.

Thanks for keeping us on the edge of our seats, look forward to next installment.

I only wish I could taske my coloring program with me on my trip! :teeth: Thank you too.

Leonhard

October 9th 2006, 04:53 PM

Hmm, anyone else missing this? I see it OK.

It's an exterior scene of the station at night, plus the door to Beamer's room with a light appearing underneath it.

Weird, for some reason i see it fine now, odd...

Well, she'll see the result soon, as you may expect -- next upload will be the first impression -- but you know Beamer, the poor guy's got nerves when it comes to Sheila and it'll be a bit before he gets up enough guts to make his official move. :teeth: Meanwhile....how's best friend Bimf gonna react, too? A sidelight in itself!

Uh, does he look like the S'klan/Elapine or will he get his own unique look?

You're right, he hasn't talked to her about it at all, and it's horrible stuff.

One of my friends have long whip marks down her back, she came to our country as a child. She never talked much about it, but I know they had to come from somewhere.

Abykale

October 9th 2006, 05:31 PM

I'm INTP, specifics bore me. :rasberry:

I'm an INTP too. :rasberry:
And it's not like I was just improving on your idea or anything. I came up with it independently.

jpholding

October 9th 2006, 08:42 PM

Uh, does he look like the S'klan/Elapine or will he get his own unique look?

I finally decided he'll look completely Elapine. I debated over whether to give his Elapine fur a greenish tinge but decided the only hint you'd have that he was once Tilkrig is that his eyes will be the same shade of blue. This would make sense being that he used the same template as the spy did; of course he'd look much the same.

Good night. :smile:

Xavier

October 10th 2006, 08:06 AM

Cliffhanger... :argh:

Teallaura

October 10th 2006, 09:12 AM

jpholding

October 10th 2006, 09:18 AM

Actually, I thought it one of your best installment-type sequences. Usually (not always) you leave things in a spot that's not particularly distinct (like a cliffhanger or a dramatic moment) and it's hard to remember it when reading the next segment.

Yeah, it's hard to balance the two sides of the scale -- production of material vs that sort of thing. I suppose the happy medium will be a post every 3-5 days. :teeth:

Leonhard

October 10th 2006, 05:57 PM

I finally decided he'll look completely Elapine. I debated over whether to give his Elapine fur a greenish tinge but decided the only hint you'd have that he was once Tilkrig is that his eyes will be the same shade of blue. This would make sense being that he used the same template as the spy did; of course he'd look much the same.

Good night. :smile:

So he'll still look different than the spy? I mean will Sheila's first response be, "Hey how did you get out so quick"?

I guess I'll see wont I, my only real question is: How in the name of <insert whatever> did they manage to overcome the mass difference problem? A tilkrieg with a low mass, becomes an Elapine with a huge mass. Where did extra mass come from, an eating binge?

Of course they might just used a thingimajig with a someuranotator, to combat this, but I don't know :hehe:

Teallaura

October 10th 2006, 06:28 PM

You're one of those guys who over-analysizes CSI, aren't you? :eh:

Seriously, air. Air has mass and if you use a lot of it, it explains the inevitable 'whoosh', 'poof' or 'bang' sound you get when the thing transforms. An added extra, you also get dust, pollen and all sorts of allergy aggravating stuff! No wonder the poor S'klan looks so bad!

:teeth:

jpholding

October 10th 2006, 06:30 PM

So he'll still look different than the spy? I mean will Sheila's first response be, "Hey how did you get out so quick"?

Well, remember, Sheila hasn't seen the spy yet. But Beamer'll have blue eyes and also be missing the little mark on the spy's forehead, plus he'll talk like Beamer of course. :teeth:

Of course they might just used a thingimajig with a someuranotator, to combat this, but I don't know :hehe:

I'll buy that. :hehe: Or offhand, maybe the helmet clones your cells to add on the extra mass as required.

I'll be on the road for a few days in Ocala, FL -- where it's easier to find a horse than a computer. :lol: So no TWeb for a while. See ya'll later.

Teallaura

October 10th 2006, 06:38 PM

Sheila doesn't look good in brown. The halter top works because of the jacket - but the dress shirt (?) in your avatar just doesn't get it. Blue or green to highlight her eyes - maybe a red for a warmer color. And yeah, I know she's not a clothes horse - but Annabelle isn't so stupid that she wouldn't 'help' her - especially before letting the poor girl out in public in that hideous thing!

jpholding

October 11th 2006, 05:33 AM

One last morning gasp...

Sheila doesn't look good in brown. The halter top works because of the jacket - but the dress shirt (?) in your avatar just doesn't get it.

Actually.....it's a jacket. Don't worry, she gets rid of it pretty quickly. :hehe:

Teallaura

October 11th 2006, 11:32 AM

Good - 'cause it's totally ickville! :vomit:

Darth Executor

October 11th 2006, 03:02 PM

Only women would care about something like that. :no:

JP,
Do you have a list of symbols for all the races (like the ones on the DNA template packets)?

Teallaura

October 11th 2006, 05:01 PM

:poke: So? Leon's already got the ubergeek thing covered and you're doing world conqueror - Sheila's fashion consultant was the only job left.

:teeth:

Leonhard

October 12th 2006, 04:28 AM

You're one of those guys who over-analysizes CSI, aren't you?

Nah, but enjoy doing speculations like these. Ok, I am the guy who would yell all the way through a movie like Armageddon, about all the technical nonsense going on.

Sheila doesn't look good in brown. The halter top works because of the jacket - but the dress shirt (?) in your avatar just doesn't get it. Blue or green to highlight her eyes - maybe a red for a warmer color. And yeah, I know she's not a clothes horse - but Annabelle isn't so stupid that she wouldn't 'help' her - especially before letting the poor girl out in public in that hideous thing!

Woot, a fashion comment! This is cool, keep it up Teal ^^ Seriously this is 'most original comment' of the month.

:poke: So? Leon's already got the ubergeek thing covered and you're doing world conqueror - Sheila's fashion consultant was the only job left.

Ubergeek? Why, thank you Teal :teeth:

jpholding

October 13th 2006, 12:23 PM

Back for a bit here. I got 16 pages (large size) done before my blue pencils got too dull. The front desk at the hotel didn't have a decent pencil sharpener. :glare:

Maybe I can get an update on Monday or Tuesday.

Do you have a list of symbols for all the races (like the ones on the DNA template packets)?

These are the only ones I've made sure connections with....

Elapine -- the two-eared zooming head
Prycene -- a "raccoon mask"
Tilkrig -- a gear

It might be fun to do some for the revamp and a guide to the races.

October 15th 2006, 04:24 PM

A few peculiar questions sparked by this interesting new technology:

1) If Eidolon were to contribute a DNA sample, would it be theoretically possible for this device to be used to transform a group of volunteers into Av'nen and thereby restore that race to the Hearthstonian population?
2) If so, any chance the eventual incarnation will be Av'nen (or one of the presently extinct Hearthstone races--I presume it would be theoretically feasible for a DNA sample to be collected during an expedition to the past)?

Teallaura

October 15th 2006, 06:51 PM

What happens when two transformed individuals breed? Does the transformation have the same problems as cloning?

Teallaura

October 15th 2006, 06:54 PM

Nah, but enjoy doing speculations like these. Ok, I am the guy who would yell all the way through a movie like Armageddon, about all the technical nonsense going on.Yup - I knew at least six of you in college....

Woot, a fashion comment! This is cool, keep it up Teal ^^ Seriously this is 'most original comment' of the month.:demure: Thank you

Ubergeek? Why, thank you Teal :teeth::thumb: You're welcome - you've earned it!

:teeth:

jpholding

October 16th 2006, 09:55 AM

Hello folks,

I have some good news for Hearthstone addicts. :teeth: Today I will start taking a 2-week sabbatical from apologetics, being that 10 straight years of dealing with stupid people has just now (yeah, just now) become too tiresome. I didn't pay myself at all from ministry funds last month, so I've got leave to do this without giving jimbo something to whine about. :hehe:

Obviously, I have another use for that free time, eh? :wink: Hopefully the next part of RP #5 will be up tomorrow.

1) If Eidolon were to contribute a DNA sample, would it be theoretically possible for this device to be used to transform a group of volunteers into Av'nen and thereby restore that race to the Hearthstonian population?

Good question, which relates to one Aby raised by PM. She also suggested that it might solve the Sk'lan's own problems with fertility.

To answer this (as well as Teal's question): I'm answering "no". As the technology now exists, the newly transformed persons would be sterile. But keep in mind for a far future story that this will change....and on the side, there's something to the idea of getting a sample from Eidolon that will also come in a different, future story (but not for the same reasons).

2) If so, any chance the eventual incarnation will be Av'nen (or one of the presently extinct Hearthstone races--I presume it would be theoretically feasible for a DNA sample to be collected during an expedition to the past)?

The new incarnation will not be Av'nen, but you are right to suppose that it might be somehow connected to this technology -- albeit after a lot of stuff happens to change the way it is used (and who uses it).

The Cartel's time travel technology, however, will end up being destroyed at the end of the Cartel cycle and will not be reproduced.

October 16th 2006, 11:01 AM

Hello folks,

I have some good news for Hearthstone addicts. :teeth: Today I will start taking a 2-week sabbatical from apologetics, being that 10 straight years of dealing with stupid people has just now (yeah, just now) become too tiresome. I didn't pay myself at all from ministry funds last month, so I've got leave to do this without giving jimbo something to whine about. :hehe:

Obviously, I have another use for that free time, eh? :wink: Hopefully the next part of RP #5 will be up tomorrow.

The world of apologetics will miss you, but those of us with powerful addictions to Hearthstone shall be consoled by your alternative use of your free time.

Good question, which relates to one Aby raised by PM. She also suggested that it might solve the Sk'lan's own problems with fertility.

She's almost as clever as I am. :teeth:

To answer this (as well as Teal's question): I'm answering "no". As the technology now exists, the newly transformed persons would be sterile. But keep in mind for a far future story that this will change....

Heh, ah the changing wonders of technology. I can see quite a bit of interesting potential for such a contraption.

and on the side, there's something to the idea of getting a sample from Eidolon that will also come in a different, future story (but not for the same reasons).

Initially, I wasn't sure if perhaps Eidolon's invulnerability might make it rather unfeasible, if not actually impossible, to obtain a DNA sample from him.

The new incarnation will not be Av'nen, but you are right to suppose that it might be somehow connected to this technology -- albeit after a lot of stuff happens to change the way it is used (and who uses it).

Hmm, I note that you didn't actually disagree with the concept of the incarnation being a currently extinct Hearthstonian race. :tongue:

The Cartel's time travel technology, however, will end up being destroyed at the end of the Cartel cycle and will not be reproduced.

Undoubtedly for the best. Time travel technology can really make a mess as far as plot is concerned, considering the near unlimited possibilities.

jpholding

October 16th 2006, 02:14 PM

The world of apologetics will miss you, but those of us with powerful addictions to Hearthstone shall be consoled by your alternative use of your free time.

Well, Lewis had Narnia and reached a lot of people with it...the two pursuits may not be that far apart. :hehe:

Initially, I wasn't sure if perhaps Eidolon's invulnerability might make it rather unfeasible, if not actually impossible, to obtain a DNA sample from him.

You're right. Not that that wouldn't stop a stubborn person from trying. Or perhaps using some sort of scanning equipment to duplicate it. :wink:

Hmm, I note that you didn't actually disagree with the concept of the incarnation being a currently extinct Hearthstonian race. :tongue:

Correct. But it will be much more complex than even THAT. :rasberry:

****

I'm aiming to upload tomorrow with up to page 12.

October 16th 2006, 06:47 PM

Well, Lewis had Narnia and reached a lot of people with it...the two pursuits may not be that far apart. :hehe:

:teeth:

You're right.

There's a switch. :tongue:

Not that that wouldn't stop a stubborn person from trying. Or perhaps using some sort of scanning equipment to duplicate it. :wink:

Question: when Eidolon gained his powers and his immortality, was his DNA at all altered?

Correct. But it will be much more complex than even THAT. :rasberry:

So long as you don't intend to hybridize all of the races that have ever existed in Hearthstone's history, I can probably live with it.

Another question: were the races of Hearthstone created as distinct groups in the beginning, or are they all descended from a common ancestral group or pair?

I'm aiming to upload tomorrow with up to page 12.

:woohoo:

jpholding

October 17th 2006, 10:35 AM

About five more pages....

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5007.html

Start halfway down....apologies to Nicole Nordeman. :hehe:

Question: when Eidolon gained his powers and his immortality, was his DNA at all altered?

I'd say no, but that what happened to him was essentially what will happen to us when resurrected. Does resurrection change our DNA? I know of no commentator who thinks so. I think resurrection is more of a case of energy being added that protects us from vulnerability.

So long as you don't intend to hybridize all of the races that have ever existed in Hearthstone's history, I can probably live with it.

I actually had considered that idea, but I think what I came up with is better.

Another question: were the races of Hearthstone created as distinct groups in the beginning, or are they all descended from a common ancestral group or pair?

They were all distinct groups, but they are biologically close enough to be the same "species". I did a lot of checking on this with one of my friends at a creationist ministry. He helped me work out the details in terms of issues like interfertility and so on. Usually one thinks that different races will always be interfertile, but he affirmed that they can become diverse enough so that they no longer are.

OK, now it's time to revamp some stuff. I'm almost done with the revamp of ST #1, then it'll be time to revamp the older RP stuff.

Teallaura

October 17th 2006, 11:12 AM

About five more pages....

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5007.html

Start halfway down....apologies to Nicole Nordeman. :hehe::thumb: Beamer is an idiot, by the way... :argh: And that jacket is hideous! What, she can't afford something decent? I thought maybe you meant an official something or other, but if it's hers... That girl needs help! :no:

I'd say no, but that what happened to him was essentially what will happen to us when resurrected. Does resurrection change our DNA? I know of no commentator who thinks so. I think resurrection is more of a case of energy being added that protects us from vulnerability.Um, some genes would very probably have to change if we aren't ever going to die. There are a few that basically shut down the body's ability to repair (it's a long process - they actually 'wear away' effectively) - hence old age. Unless we can never skin knees, that would presumably have to go.

I suspect there will be such minor changes to DNA, but no major 'now ya got blue eyes instead' changes.

They were all distinct groups, but they are biologically close enough to be the same "species". I did a lot of checking on this with one of my friends at a creationist ministry. He helped me work out the details in terms of issues like interfertility and so on. Usually one thinks that different races will always be interfertile, but he affirmed that they can become diverse enough so that they no longer are.What about exceptions? For example, occasionally mules will be fertile even though the vast majority aren't. I realize you aren't discussing hybrids per se but I was just kinda wondering if the sme prinicple might apply.

jpholding

October 17th 2006, 12:36 PM

:thumb: Beamer is an idiot, by the way... :argh:

Aw.... :bawl: Be nice to the l'il guy....

And that jacket is hideous! What, she can't afford something decent? I thought maybe you meant an official something or other

I did. Well, highway patrol officers here, anyway, wear something like that.....

Um, some genes would very probably have to change if we aren't ever going to die. There are a few that basically shut down the body's ability to repair (it's a long process - they actually 'wear away' effectively) - hence old age. Unless we can never skin knees, that would presumably have to go.

The lit on the nature of the rez body does suggest that skinned knees will be a thing of the past; I'd say that is certainly the case with Eidolon. But do you know how many of these genes there are? Is this a major revamp? And is it known WHY they shut down that ability?

What about exceptions? For example, occasionally mules will be fertile even though the vast majority aren't. I realize you aren't discussing hybrids per se but I was just kinda wondering if the sme prinicple might apply.

I'd have to ask my science friend to be sure, but speaking theoretically, and given your point, one could say that exceptions existed for a time but gradually came to exist less and less as the races diverged. If I had to set it in stone (I don't want to unless I have to) I could say that around their year 30000 was the last time there was any record of a successful hybrid birth. After that there can be stuff like throwbacks -- as I suppose of Tyk Jyn-Rayana's family having Elapine-like ears.

Teallaura

October 17th 2006, 02:09 PM

Aw.... :bawl: Be nice to the l'il guy....
He's a sweet idiot.

I did. Well, highway patrol officers here, anyway, wear something like that.....
Ugh... Maybe a badge or something to show it's official... Still ugly....

The lit on the nature of the rez body does suggest that skinned knees will be a thing of the past; I'd say that is certainly the case with Eidolon. But do you know how many of these genes there are? Is this a major revamp? And is it known WHY they shut down that ability?
Hmmm... That's interesting. Gonna take all the fun out of skateboarding, though... :teeth:

I'm don't know about how many. I read/saw something about them a while back. They're found on the ends of specific genes and there are a number of them. Each time that gene is used to repair something, one of them is lost. When they are all gone, the gene ceases to function.

I don't think it's a major revamp - they are like control genes that control other genes which do the actual work. Then again, if the body is as invulnerable as you suspect, it wouldn't matter because nothing would ever need repair.

If I remember correctly it was a documentary on aging that I first saw it on. I wanna say the one with the flatworms that didn't age very fast but it could have been the one about a disease that causes rapid onset of aging. I'm gonna have to hunt around to find out. I'm pretty sure I have something book marked at home. I'll check.

I'd have to ask my science friend to be sure, but speaking theoretically, and given your point, one could say that exceptions existed for a time but gradually came to exist less and less as the races diverged. If I had to set it in stone (I don't want to unless I have to) I could say that around their year 30000 was the last time there was any record of a successful hybrid birth. After that there can be stuff like throwbacks -- as I suppose of Tyk Jyn-Rayana's family having Elapine-like ears.I was thinking in terms of a throwback, actually. Although very unlikely, if there were interracial marriages the possibility might exist that one would produce a hybrid child.

:shrug:

jpholding

October 17th 2006, 03:08 PM

He's a sweet idiot.

:hehe: Got any advice for him? He'll be asking Sheila for a date next time 'round. (It's obviously a hypothetical question....I've already inked the pages. :lol:)

I'm don't know about how many. I read/saw something about them a while back. They're found on the ends of specific genes and there are a number of them. Each time that gene is used to repair something, one of them is lost. When they are all gone, the gene ceases to function.

Interesting. Just like a box of bandages. :teeth:

********

I finished the revamps for RP 3 and 4 and will probably get RP 2 done before close of sabbatical today.

Teallaura

October 17th 2006, 03:30 PM

:hehe: Got any advice for him? He'll be asking Sheila for a date next time 'round. (It's obviously a hypothetical question....I've already inked the pages. :lol:)

...Yeah, go ahead and sign up for the Dr. Phil show - might as well get something out of this train wreck in the making...

:gack:

jpholding

October 17th 2006, 03:47 PM

OK...pearls for dat. :hehe:

Fortunately the train wreck will be forestalled by the arrival of an earthquake. :wink:

October 17th 2006, 04:26 PM

About five more pages....

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5007.html

Start halfway down....apologies to Nicole Nordeman. :hehe:

Poor Beamer... :frown: He is a sweet idiot.

I'd say no, but that what happened to him was essentially what will happen to us when resurrected. Does resurrection change our DNA? I know of no commentator who thinks so. I think resurrection is more of a case of energy being added that protects us from vulnerability.

Teal pretty much pinpointed where I was going with the question. I'd imagine that to some extent, DNA would have to change. I think if I remember correctly, the things at the ends of the genetic material are called telomeres, and I think something would have to happen regarding them. Might be an interesting question to post to that friend of yours in the creationist ministry. Furthermore, I'm not sure what the mutation rates are on Hearthstone, but do you envision things such as various deleterious mutations being repaired in the resurrection?

I actually had considered that idea

Would've made an interesting statement as to the universality of the atonement message. Of course, since I don't yet know what you do have in mind, I can't really comment much further than that. :smile:

but I think what I came up with is better.

I'll have to ponder the matter a while before I hazard another guess.

They were all distinct groups, but they are biologically close enough to be the same "species". I did a lot of checking on this with one of my friends at a creationist ministry. He helped me work out the details in terms of issues like interfertility and so on. Usually one thinks that different races will always be interfertile, but he affirmed that they can become diverse enough so that they no longer are.

You really are going all out on this, aren't you? :rasberry:

I don't think it's a major revamp - they are like control genes that control other genes which do the actual work. Then again, if the body is as invulnerable as you suspect, it wouldn't matter because nothing would ever need repair.

This makes me think of another issue that might be raised. With regards to the invulnerability of Eidolon's body, can individual cells ever die? Does Eidolon still physically grow at all, or is his body static? Brings up another point in my mind: why, precisely, does Eidolon go into hibernation if he doesn't eat? For what exactly would the nutrients be used? Does Eidolon even really need to breathe?

Insert a few scores of additional questions along these lines. :teeth:

jpholding

October 17th 2006, 05:50 PM

Poor Beamer... :frown: He is a sweet idiot.

:huh: Yeesh, everyone's dogpiling on the poor li'l guy. :hehe: OK, maybe I'm missin' somethin' here as a result of finding the right girl to marry on my first date. (Still on that date 25+ years later, too.) I didn't have to play the games, so help me out here. Why's he an idiot? For keeping his mouth shut all that time? For taking that risk with the helmet? For not dressing better? All of the above?

And while we're at it, do I hear any guesses as to how Sheila will react to his appeal for a date? :whistle: (It's more than just an academic exercise...it's helping me see how well my character development is going. There ARE "unknowns" involved here that will involve guesswork inevitably, but....)

Teal pretty much pinpointed where I was going with the question. I'd imagine that to some extent, DNA would have to change. I think if I remember correctly, the things at the ends of the genetic material are called telomeres, and I think something would have to happen regarding them. Might be an interesting question to post to that friend of yours in the creationist ministry.

I think I shall when he writes me back from the last letter I sent.

Furthermore, I'm not sure what the mutation rates are on Hearthstone, but do you envision things such as various deleterious mutations being repaired in the resurrection?

Yes, here and there.

Would've made an interesting statement as to the universality of the atonement message.

That's what I figured too. :yes:

Of course, since I don't yet know what you do have in mind, I can't really comment much further than that. :smile:

You do have the option for a spolier to be received by PM, but be warned that knowing this one will require knowing a lot of stuff you might want to wait on.

You really are going all out on this, aren't you? :rasberry:

I have intelligent, particular readers. :tongue: Darned straight. And hear this: As RP #5 is presently being given director help from my expert consult, I expect to go back and do the same with the older stories.

With regards to the invulnerability of Eidolon's body, can individual cells ever die?

I have firm decisions on all these: No.

Does Eidolon still physically grow at all, or is his body static?

Static. So he never even needs a haircut. Or can ever get one.

why, precisely, does Eidolon go into hibernation if he doesn't eat?

This relates to my idea about resurrection bodies. In the final resurrection, most commentators think we won't have to eat (though we can). But I think this is in part because God's divine energies will be keeping us going. Eidolon's body is like the resurrection body without that constant supply of energy. He had one shot of it and that was it.

So if he doesn't eat, the body goes into hibernation mode.

Does Eidolon even really need to breathe?

Here again, hiberation would be the result if (say) he gets covered in a lot of water. He'd have to hope to float to the surface someday. Keep that in mind -- I have a use for it. :wink:

This reminds me that a very, very early version of him (from the 20 years ago version) allowed himself to be buried in a Pompeii-like volcanic eruption because he found life too miserable, and he emerged thousands of years later when some archaeologists dug him up.

********

RP #2 revamp is done. That leaves RP #1 to do, which I still need to work on otherwise reworking some of the art. By the time I'm done it may be that only a handful of the pages will still be from the version done a year ago. It's also been interesting to track the progress of the art as I worked back through the revamps. The benchmark for me was the old Time Turkey stuff I did; I had an artistic peak back then, and I think I'm back at it now. Hints of that peak start to show up in ST #1.

I'll try for four more pages on the next RP #5 installment. Could get that done Thursday if I work at it. :hehe:

Darth Executor

October 17th 2006, 06:37 PM

So if he doesn't eat, the body goes into hibernation mode.

If he goes into hibernation when he doesn't eat, how can he get out of it?
Got the drawing btw. Nice name.

Teallaura

October 17th 2006, 07:22 PM

:huh: Yeesh, everyone's dogpiling on the poor li'l guy. :hehe: OK, maybe I'm missin' somethin' here as a result of finding the right girl to marry on my first date. (Still on that date 25+ years later, too.) I didn't have to play the games, so help me out here. Why's he an idiot? For keeping his mouth shut all that time? For taking that risk with the helmet? For not dressing better? All of the above?
First you date - then you change your species. He has no relationship (of the kind he wants) with Sheila, has no idea how she'll react but up and decides to change his species for her? And to top it off he lies about why when she asks him - great plan there. Did anything at all go through his tiny head when he decided to do this besides 'she'll like me if I'm a bunny?'

That's not the main problem - he's effectively going to be (eventually) telling Shelia that he thinks she's so incredibly shallow that she couldn't have liked him romantically without his becoming an Elapine. Oh yeah - that's romantic! Actually, it's desperate and not a little creepy.

You've written yourself into a corner unless you come up with some halfway reasonable explanation as to why he'd think that changing his species for a girl who isn't interested in him romantically - and he knows it - isn't patronizing [to her] and incredibly desperate. You can probably get out of it by using his background - social skills can't have been a priority as a S'klan slave. :shrug:

Be interesting to see how you do it.... :grin:

And while we're at it, do I hear any guesses as to how Sheila will react to his appeal for a date? :whistle: (It's more than just an academic exercise...it's helping me see how well my character development is going. There ARE "unknowns" involved here that will involve guesswork inevitably, but....)

... Once she recovers from the shock, she'll likely be creeped out (if she figures it out or has been told by then) or utterly dumbfounded if not (what the heck do I do now?!?!). Probably also worried about him losing his sanity from the change or something. From her POV their relationship is completely platonic until he becomes an Elapine - if she doesn't know why he did that it would probably look to her like the thing changed more than just his DNA. Unless she's socially incompetent, she should turn him down gently - then run to Brimstone for help 'fixing' Beamer.

If he goes into hibernation when he doesn't eat, how can he get out of it? Good point. :cs:

Teallaura

October 17th 2006, 07:31 PM

Teal pretty much pinpointed where I was going with the question. I'd imagine that to some extent, DNA would have to change. I think if I remember correctly, the things at the ends of the genetic material are called telomeres, and I think something would have to happen regarding them. Might be an interesting question to post to that friend of yours in the creationist ministry. Furthermore, I'm not sure what the mutation rates are on Hearthstone, but do you envision things such as various deleterious mutations being repaired in the resurrection?

Yes! Telomeres! I'm pretty sure that's it! Thanks! :flowers:

Now I gotta hunt that stuff down again... :sigh:

Alien

October 17th 2006, 08:42 PM

OK, I'm sucked in.

1. DNA: From what they just said about implants being "stored" as patterns in the helmet, it seems that it's not strictly adjustment of DNA alone, which would take time to produce the new body anyway, as it would have to "grow" into its new shape. What seems to be going on is an instantaneous (or at least pretty quick) rearrangement of the molecules of the body. Something along the lines of the sf matter transmitters, maybe, where the object is scanned and a pattern is transmitted and a new object is built at the other end. (OK there are other, less problematic explanations in some stories). The brain, or memories and thought patterns, have to stay the same of course, or it ain't you. All in all a clever trick.

2. You need the same helmet (or a chip from it or something) to get back to normal, because that's where the original pattern is stored. Possible plot line: Beamer decides to change back and can't find the helmet, or it malfunctions, or someone has swapped the "species" insert, or something. He's trapped in a bunny body! Or maybe it changes him to something horrible. It all gets sorted out in the end, of course.

3. Interspecies mating: Does this happen in Hearthstone? If not, why not? In our world, apart from a few weirdos, it's because we are not sexually attracted to other species, so why is Beamer turned on by Sheila in the first place? I'm very fond of my dog, but have no sexual thoughts about her, she's the wrong shape. You've made Sheila very cute by incorporating some human features, but I'm still not sure I'd fancy her (sorry, Sheila, I admire your mind no end). She all hairy! :smile: (And vice versa, of course).

4. Why Beamer acted as he did: He's afraid of rejection, so he doesn't approach Sheila in his natural form. This is not surprising, he's a geek. He has total confidence when he's doing what he does best (technical stuff), and doesn't lack courage in a fight, and these things could work in his favor. Unfortunately, he just doesn't believe any girl could be interested in him, and that kills his chances. He thinks this is, as far as Sheila is concerned at least, due to his physical shape, and thinks that "bunnification" will do the trick. Alas, as he soon finds out, his basic lack of confidence is unchanged and this comes through to Sheila, who has no interest in him. This is totally predictable, of course. If you lack confidence, you need a personality revamp. Without that, no changes to your appearance, or new clothing, or carefully rehearsed pick up lines are going to work.

Sorry if any of these have been addressed before. I haven't read all the way through the thread, but I did read the whole strip (to date).

October 17th 2006, 10:27 PM

:huh: Yeesh, everyone's dogpiling on the poor li'l guy. :hehe: OK, maybe I'm missin' somethin' here as a result of finding the right girl to marry on my first date.

You're a lucky man, JP. But what of the "future Mrs. Judas Iscariot" (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showpost.php?p=1633719&postcount=13)?

(Still on that date 25+ years later, too.) I didn't have to play the games, so help me out here. Why's he an idiot? For keeping his mouth shut all that time? For taking that risk with the helmet? For not dressing better? All of the above?

Generally, waiting in the dark for a woman whom you know isn't going to know who you are, isn't a recommended strategy.

But at least he has an excuse. Love tends to make idiots of the brightest.

And while we're at it, do I hear any guesses as to how Sheila will react to his appeal for a date? :whistle: (It's more than just an academic exercise...it's helping me see how well my character development is going. There ARE "unknowns" involved here that will involve guesswork inevitably, but....)

I imagine her being very shocked at first, quite taken off-guard. Then, I could foresee her doing her best to let him down as gently as she possibly can.

I think I shall when he writes me back from the last letter I sent.

Communicating by mail? :glare: Would that have gone by Pony Express?

You do have the option for a spolier to be received by PM, but be warned that knowing this one will require knowing a lot of stuff you might want to wait on.

:hehe: As much as I want to know, I'd rather learn in the due course of time and savor the story.

I have intelligent, particular readers. :tongue: Darned straight.

Yeah, and we'll be sure to keep you in line. :rasberry:

And hear this: As RP #5 is presently being given director help from my expert consult, I expect to go back and do the same with the older stories.

How so?

I have firm decisions on all these: No.

Static. So he never even needs a haircut. Or can ever get one.

So he's essentially stuck with the hairstyle he had some 40 thousand revs ago, eh? Good thing the wig in my avatar isn't his natural hair. :hehe:

:redeiding:

This relates to my idea about resurrection bodies. In the final resurrection, most commentators think we won't have to eat (though we can). But I think this is in part because God's divine energies will be keeping us going. Eidolon's body is like the resurrection body without that constant supply of energy. He had one shot of it and that was it.

So if he doesn't eat, the body goes into hibernation mode.

I think I'm in need of a slight bit more clarification, as the fundamental concept eludes me yet. Eidolon won't need any of the nutrients from the foods, yet he needs to eat, as somehow his energy levels otherwise decrease. Correct? As to the why of that, I'm not quite sure.

Here again, hiberation would be the result if (say) he gets covered in a lot of water. He'd have to hope to float to the surface someday.

Ah, but that elusive "why"... :tongue:

Keep that in mind -- I have a use for it. :wink:

I can envision it now: Eidolon eventually floats to the surface and is found by a group of sick-minded hoodlums who dress him up as a large infant before he regains consciousness. :teeth:

This reminds me that a very, very early version of him (from the 20 years ago version) allowed himself to be buried in a Pompeii-like volcanic eruption because he found life too miserable, and he emerged thousands of years later when some archaeologists dug him up.

I can imagine that giving the archaeologists quite the surprise! :lol:

I'll try for four more pages on the next RP #5 installment. Could get that done Thursday if I work at it. :hehe:

:whip: Draw, Holding! More pages!

:teeth:

Yes! Telomeres! I'm pretty sure that's it! Thanks! :flowers:

Now I gotta hunt that stuff down again... :sigh:

The abomination that causes misinformation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telomere) will be glad to give a summary.

First you date - then you change your species.

:hehe: Sage advice.

Abykale

October 18th 2006, 01:51 AM

So he's essentially stuck with the hairstyle he had some 40 thousand revs ago, eh? Good thing the wig in my avatar isn't his natural hair. :hehe:

Actually, hair technically isn't alive any more than spit is, so it seems to me it would have been just as feasible for it to keep growing.
(And technically, if his body were completely static he wouldn't be able to move, so . . .)

Another interesting question: What happens if Eidolon gets dehydrated?

Hey, what's with the 'Tickle Me's?

I think I'm in need of a slight bit more clarification, as the fundamental concept eludes me yet. Eidolon won't need any of the nutrients from the foods, yet he needs to eat, as somehow his energy levels otherwise decrease. Correct? As to the why of that, I'm not quite sure.

Tsk, tsk, JB. First Law of Thermodynamics. He's still using energy, and he needs to get that energy from somewhere. (although perhaps with his ability to absorb energy, plugging himself into an electric circuit would also suffice?)
So, he doesn't need any proteins or minerals (unless he's going to grow hair), but he does need some sort of hydrocarbons for fuel. You should take a semester of biology.

But then, Snowdrop, Brimstone, Phylloshrike, and Sonica seem to do just fine getting energy from nowhere . . .

I can envision it now: Eidolon eventually floats to the surface and is found by a group of sick-minded hoodlums who dress him up as a large infant before he regains consciousness. :teeth:

:glare: You're the sick one, JB.

:whip: Draw, Holding! More pages!

I second that!

JP, I've been meaning to get back to you on why I thought the Sk'lan would no longer need females from other races. My idea was actually that they could use the technology on themselves to transform into another race, or actually just transform themselves back into a more natural state. Either way their females should then be able to carry their own young. Perhaps they might not want to do without their implants for the duration of pregnancy, but I still see no reason it wouldn't be possible.

Btw,
If the helmet changes the DNA of every cell in its user's body, perhaps from there it could simply mimic the natural development process, only much faster. (If you just changed the DNA, then some things like hair and eye color would naturally change (but would take some time), while size and, I'm guessing, shape, probably wouldn't.)
Of course the problem with doing it that way is that it complicates things -- you'd need to inject large quantities of nutrients and proteins into the body, instead of simply putting on the helmet and *Poof!*.
Besides, there's no point in getting picky about details like that when there are so many biologically impossible things already going on -- Eidolon is fine, but when I think about Brett and Annabelle and how the heat and cold they produce don't affect them . . .

jpholding

October 18th 2006, 06:15 AM

Wowie. That got things goin'. :hehe:

If he goes into hibernation when he doesn't eat, how can he get out of it?

Something would have to wake him up. Either he gets some food stuffed in his mouth or something really loud happens, forcing the body to use the reserve.

My model here is somewhat after what happened in the Casca series, if anyone has read that. Though Eidolon is far less vulnerable to harm.

Got the drawing btw. Nice name.

Thought you'd like it. :wink:

jpholding

October 18th 2006, 06:21 AM

First you date - then you change your species. He has no relationship (of the kind he wants) with Sheila, has no idea how she'll react but up and decides to change his species for her? And to top it off he lies about why when she asks him - great plan there. Did anything at all go through his tiny head when he decided to do this besides 'she'll like me if I'm a bunny?'

Probably not. :hehe: The thing is:

That's not the main problem - he's effectively going to be (eventually) telling Shelia that he thinks she's so incredibly shallow that she couldn't have liked him romantically without his becoming an Elapine.

I established in RP #4, though, that the Tilkrig are too small to pursue a relationship with any of the other races that way (and the Sanslorian too large, as well, but as a race to themselves, they don't mind). It would be a dead end unless he became an Elapine, or even an Allethene or one of the other larger races. As a Tilkrig -- no. It's a dead end. Any "romance" would remain without complete fulfillment.

Would that be a reasonable explanation? (There is also something to your idea of lack of social skills, though. He's never had real kindness shown to him in his life before meeting Bimf and then Sheila. Flashback scene coming will illlustrate more.)

jpholding

October 18th 2006, 06:32 AM

OK, I'm sucked in.

Welcome aboard. :smile:

1. DNA: From what they just said about implants being "stored" as patterns in the helmet, it seems that it's not strictly adjustment of DNA alone, which would take time to produce the new body anyway, as it would have to "grow" into its new shape. What seems to be going on is an instantaneous (or at least pretty quick) rearrangement of the molecules of the body.

Correct. Earlier in the story Brett noted the similarity of the circuitry to metamorphic panel technology, which is their molecular rearranging tech. So far in the series the technology has also been used in suits and in Sheila's new wrist computer.

You may not have read this all yet, but you picked up on things fast. :hehe:

2. You need the same helmet (or a chip from it or something) to get back to normal, because that's where the original pattern is stored.

Yes. :thumb: The last update included a note about a pattern buffer where Beamer's original pattern is stored.

Possible plot line: Beamer decides to change back and can't find the helmet, or it malfunctions, or someone has swapped the "species" insert, or something.

Eeeeek....I may think of some way to use that somewhere else!

3. Interspecies mating: Does this happen in Hearthstone?

Yes, but it is socially unacceptable everywhere except Sheila's homeland, because it doesn't produce offspring.

it's because we are not sexually attracted to other species, so why is Beamer turned on by Sheila in the first place?

The prior story (RP #4) established that the attraction is the result of Beamer's meeting in Sheila, for the first time, authority combined with beauty and kindness. As a slave (essentially) of the Sk'lan he was treated like property, and though he did get treated better than most such slaves, there was no warmth, kindness, or love in his life before now.

Very peceptive comments indeed. :thumb:

jpholding

October 18th 2006, 06:38 AM

You're a lucky man, JP. But what of the "future Mrs. Judas Iscariot" (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showpost.php?p=1633719&postcount=13)?

I met her later, during an interlude when the future Mrs. H and I dated less often. I never stopped seeing Mrs. H at the same time, though. The other relationship was never exclusive.

Communicating by mail? :glare:

Nah. I use "letter" to refer to email.

How so?

My expert will look over the stories and suggest different ways to stage things and make them look more professional. Then I'll slowly redraw things.

Eidolon won't need any of the nutrients from the foods, yet he needs to eat, as somehow his energy levels otherwise decrease. Correct?

Yes. The energy decrease though runs something like Zeno's footrace -- it never completely runs out, or else it would take millions of years to do so.

I dare not suggest why it works this way. :hehe:

I can envision it now: Eidolon eventually floats to the surface and is found by a group of sick-minded hoodlums who dress him up as a large infant before he regains consciousness. :teeth:

And then puits him in a museum. :hehe:

:whip: Draw, Holding! More pages!

Meh. You don't need to persuade me. :hehe:

jpholding

October 18th 2006, 06:55 AM

Actually, hair technically isn't alive any more than spit is, so it seems to me it would have been just as feasible for it to keep growing.

? -- But doesn't hair come of living cells that die off?

Another interesting question: What happens if Eidolon gets dehydrated?

That's another issue. Given the amount of moisture that's in the air at any given time, when he enters a metabolic slowdown state that isn't the result of drowning, I'd suppose he could ingest moisture from the air as he breathes every now and then (say once every hour). But then again, in that state he probably would not lose moisture either. Just speculation there.

But then, Snowdrop, Brimstone, Phylloshrike, and Sonica seem to do just fine getting energy from nowhere . . .

All four of them would still have to eat or be able to draw energy from food. But an interesting point on the last two. Sonica's going to start showing some wear next round, and one of the reasons (aside from the Nullaborian heat, excessive for a Drovine) will be that Gen'a'too didn't feed the body enough towards the end. Too much cake, not enough good stuff. :hehe:

And as for Phylloshrike, I have a surprise in store for ST #6....

JP, I've been meaning to get back to you on why I thought the Sk'lan would no longer need females from other races. My idea was actually that they could use the technology on themselves to transform into another race, or actually just transform themselves back into a more natural state. Either way their females should then be able to carry their own young. Perhaps they might not want to do without their implants for the duration of pregnancy, but I still see no reason it wouldn't be possible.

True enough. And I'll admit, that although the use of the helmet that way never occurred to me before you set this out, something I *do* have planned later fits into the idea that they'd never think to arrive at such a simple solution themselves (aside from the other matters I mentioned in the PM). The Sk'lan have several blind spots that come of an irrational narcissism. If they didn't have their Tilkrig slaves they'd be unable to assert their designs of domination.

And a hint....in the future, this dependency will also be their downfall, in a manner of speaking.

Besides, there's no point in getting picky about details like that when there are so many biologically impossible things already going on -- Eidolon is fine, but when I think about Brett and Annabelle and how the heat and cold they produce don't affect them . . .

Oh heck yeah. One of these days one of these guys will author a "Nitpicker's Guide to Hearthstone" like the ones now out for Star Trek. :hehe:

October 18th 2006, 08:34 AM

Actually, hair technically isn't alive any more than spit is, so it seems to me it would have been just as feasible for it to keep growing.
(And technically, if his body were completely static he wouldn't be able to move, so . . .)

The biology of the immortal is quite mind-boggling.

Hey, what's with the 'Tickle Me's?

You know you want to join us and become Tickle Me Aby. :yes:

Tsk, tsk, JB. First Law of Thermodynamics. He's still using energy, and he needs to get that energy from somewhere. (although perhaps with his ability to absorb energy, plugging himself into an electric circuit would also suffice?)
So, he doesn't need any proteins or minerals (unless he's going to grow hair), but he does need some sort of hydrocarbons for fuel.

Would he even be able to use hydrocarbons? Would that not, on some level, involve chemical processes that result in some sort of change, however small, to his body?

You should take a semester of biology.

Nah, that's what we keep you around for. :rasberry:

:glare: You're the sick one, JB.

If so, Holding's sicker. :hehe:

And then puits him in a museum. :hehe:

I didn't even bring up the idea of the kids trying to set :redeiding: on fire (and failing, of course, but it'd be a pretty sight).

Besides, there's no point in getting picky about details like that when there are so many biologically impossible things already going on -- Eidolon is fine, but when I think about Brett and Annabelle and how the heat and cold they produce don't affect them . . .

Too true. :yes: But blame JP for that, he's the one who wanted to get all realistic. :hehe:

It's an odd world where the immortal, invulnerable guy is the most feasible.

I met her later, during an interlude when the future Mrs. H and I dated less often. I never stopped seeing Mrs. H at the same time, though. The other relationship was never exclusive.

:nono: Bad JP.

But at least things worked out quite well in the end. :smile:

Nah. I use "letter" to refer to email.

Gotta update your vocab to get with the times. :wink:

My expert will look over the stories and suggest different ways to stage things and make them look more professional. Then I'll slowly redraw things.

Solely from the artistic perspective, or will there be minor alterations to the storyline?

Yes. The energy decrease though runs something like Zeno's footrace -- it never completely runs out, or else it would take millions of years to do so.

:yes: At least I can envision that.

I dare not suggest why it works this way. :hehe:

Another of those "let's not get weighed down with specifics just yet", huh? :rasberry:

Meh. You don't need to persuade me. :hehe:

Is there still a good chance of four new pages by tomorrow?

? -- But doesn't hair come of living cells that die off?

According to the abomination that causes misinformation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair), hair is a "filamentous outgrowth of dead cells from the skin", yes. So since Eidolon has no new skin cells dying, I'd imagine that his hair would likewise not grow. Furthermore, if his hair as it presently exists is as unsusceptible to change as the rest of his body (being invulnerable and whatnot), I imagine that it would be unable to be cut or removed from his scalp. Hence, neither hair growth nor hair loss would occur.

Oh heck yeah. One of these days one of these guys will author a "Nitpicker's Guide to Hearthstone" like the ones now out for Star Trek. :hehe:

Nah, not profitable enough. :rasberry: You need to work on advertising more before we'll consider trying to get rich off ya.

Abykale

October 18th 2006, 11:07 AM

You know you want to join us and become Tickle Me Aby. :yes:

Um, no.

Would he even be able to use hydrocarbons? Would that not, on some level, involve chemical processes that result in some sort of change, however small, to his body?
Well, yes, but so would any sort of biological processes at all. It wouldn't be any sort of permanent change, though, unless you count the replacement of various water molecules with other water molecules.

Nah, that's what we keep you around for.
This isn't my area of expertise. If you'd taken AP Biology last year, you might know more about it than me.

According to the abomination that causes misinformation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair), hair is a "filamentous outgrowth of dead cells from the skin", yes. So since Eidolon has no new skin cells dying, I'd imagine that his hair would likewise not grow. Furthermore, if his hair as it presently exists is as unsusceptible to change as the rest of his body (being invulnerable and whatnot), I imagine that it would be unable to be cut or removed from his scalp. Hence, neither hair growth nor hair loss would occur.
Oops. You're right. :blush:

All four of them would still have to eat or be able to draw energy from food. But an interesting point on the last two. Sonica's going to start showing some wear next round, and one of the reasons (aside from the Nullaborian heat, excessive for a Drovine) will be that Gen'a'too didn't feed the body enough towards the end. Too much cake, not enough good stuff.

And as for Phylloshrike, I have a surprise in store for ST #6....
I do seem to recall Brom noticing an increased appetite after eating the Selalighi. It sure seems like some of these guys would be eating a pretty enormous amount, though. Anyone want to calculate about how many Calories Brimstone burns in a day?
But the bigger problem for Brett and Annabelle is explaining how they can hold up under such a wide range of temperatures. Theoretically they could be altered at the molecular level to function at extreme body temperatures (which would involve altering their DNA even), but that would make them unable to return to normal.

jpholding

October 18th 2006, 11:10 AM

Oy! :rasberry:

Whilst driving around doing some vegetable chem surveys this morning I mulled over a lot of this issue in terms of Tilkrig compatiblity. Heck, what else is there to think about on the road? Beats modern politics. :hehe:

This is good stuff to discuss, because it's a big help in making the narrative coherent (even if it is fantastic at times).

There are two possibilities I can see when it comes to Tilkrig compatibility with the other races:

1) There's a real and definite barrier, related to their size difference (and relatedly, a mass/weight difference).

I'd have to check with my science friend to work on details for this, if I ever did.

2) The barrier is more imagined than real.

Curiously, I already have some context in place that would allow for this. Eidolon's history reports that until the treaty with the Prycenes, the Tilkrig were a despised race. Combine this with the consideration that interracial marriage has been frowned upon anyway for most of their history, and we have a situation in which a significant psychological barrier could exist to a relationship between a Tilkrig and a member of another race, one which manifests in the assumption that other barriers (particularly physical) exist. In addition, Beamer is one of the first (if not the first, I have not decided) Tilkrig to live in Nullabor, so no one has yet even suggested the idea that the barrier is an imagined one. Perhaps this is a good story to make that point, and I just might leave it open to do so.

Needless to say this isn't a place to get too graphic, but we have it established that it is at least BELIEVED that there is some physical barrier. The jail scene in ST #4 (p. 12) had Tyra indicating that a relationship between Brom and Melinda would require something (ahem) exceptional -- and in her eyes, abominable.

All of this leads to a point I've known for a while, that in this respect at least, Hearthstone is breaking new ground.

You know you want to join us and become Tickle Me Aby. :yes:

I'd like to see someone else here adopt the name Slap Me Doubting John. :hehe:

Solely from the artistic perspective, or will there be minor alterations to the storyline?

If there are any alterations to the story, they will be minor (to things like dialogue), and/or fully in line with and supporting what I already have -- for example, in RP #1, having Sheila have a premonition about Annabelle being her "best friend" when she first finds her, in line with the premonition she had about the dagger in RP #4 showing that she has this certain ability in her. I'm not going to do like they do with Superman and change things around every 5 minutes. :hehe: My expert consult may also suggest adding some drama to certain scenes that draws them out, but the mega-narrative itself will remain unchanged.

Another of those "let's not get weighed down with specifics just yet", huh? :rasberry:

You bet. It's good advice. My consult tells me that a lot of works have lost readers because they commit too soon to certain things and then end up having to change stuff.

Is there still a good chance of four new pages by tomorrow?

I'd say so. I'm home for a few hours now, although I have a friendly meeting with a local cartooning club tonight put together by my friend http://www.robsmithjr.com in which I'll be able to get some more views from pros. Then tomorrow I'm home all day too. I can see loading up around 6 PM tomorrow.

Nah, not profitable enough. :rasberry: You need to work on advertising more before we'll consider trying to get rich off ya.

Well, then, I'll hold off on granting you the rights to it. :hehe:

jpholding

October 18th 2006, 11:17 AM

I do seem to recall Brom noticing an increased appetite after eating the Selalighi. It sure seems like some of these guys would be eating a pretty enormous amount, though.

Worse yet, their diet is limited to fish and plant matter. I'm really pushing the envelope here. :hehe:

I seem to recall when Flash was a TV show that they showed him gobbling lots of pizza in one scene. If you do delve into the practical aspects, you may indeed show some things like this. OTOH Superman clearly would need a lot of fuel, but I have no recollection of the issue ever being raised. He'd have to scarf down a McDonald's a day (the whole building too :hehe:) to keep going for real, I'd bet.

In Brom's case, his energy issue won't have that kind of solution, though. A hint can be found in that unearthly turning of his eyes to green in the last story....

But the bigger problem for Brett and Annabelle is explaining how they can hold up under such a wide range of temperatures. Theoretically they could be altered at the molecular level to function at extreme body temperatures (which would involve altering their DNA even), but that would make them unable to return to normal.

Heck yeah. The same issue, I'm sure, with the likes of Dr. Freeze and the Human Torch. Biologically this is all fantasy, no doubt about it. But it's still fun to discuss. :hehe:

Alien

October 18th 2006, 11:33 AM

The biology of the immortal is quite mind-boggling.

Yes indeed. I've thought about this a lot, particularly in the context of the resurrected body. Presuming that by "immortal" we don't mean just "very very long lived", there are a lot of problems. Some turtles live to 300 or more, but that doesn't mean that all turtles do so, or that a bullet won't cut their lives short. A true immortal would not only have to be totally self sustaining and self renewing as far as his bodily processes are concerned, but also invulnerable to any damage whatsoever. In infinite time even the most unlikely threat will happen. So he has to be able to survive being at ground zero of an atomic explosion, and so on. This seems to be very unlikely, if you want the entity to bear any resemblence to any form of life we are familiar with.

Of course, we can envisage intelligent entities that are imprinted on subspace (how's that for technobabble?) and effectively last as long as the universe (I'll allow "as long as the universe" to be the same as "forever"), but they won't fit too well into Hearthstone stories. If I were JP, and if I cared about this level of detail, I'd probably go with "very long lived" and "invulnerable to most forms of physical damage" rather than "truly immortal". It doesn't effect the story line, and is a ready answer to nit pickers. :grin:

A fun subject, btw, is to do this kind of analysis on Superman, who seems to be (kryptonite aside) pretty much invulnerable. The hair thing is interesting. If it grows, how would he get a haircut? If it is that tough, it would be a very dangerous thing indeed. Something that thin and that tough would slice through flesh like a razor. A girl would run her fingers through his hair and they would be sliced off!

Larry Niven did funny piece on Superman's love life. Anyone read it?

Incidentally, there seem to be two schools in sf regarding scientific probability. One just says, "accept it and enjoy the story" and the other tries to make it fit currently know science, maybe allowing a few exceptions, like ftl travel. Niven took the latter route. The "hibernation" thing from earlier in the thread reminded me of his story of the "Slaver" who was in a "stasis" field, which stopped all movement, and allowed something to be preserved, unchanged, literally forever. He was in a suit which had a button on the outside which allowed someone to switch off the field (obviously the guy inside couldn't do it). He was involved in an accident millions of years ago, when his race ruled the galaxy by being able to control the minds of other races. He was discovered in one of Earth's oceans and put in a museum. The "off" button had long ago been eroded to a flat place on the surface of the suit. Then someone noticed it and pressed it .... :grin:

Alien

October 18th 2006, 11:55 AM

Needless to say this isn't a place to get too graphic, but we have it established that it is at least BELIEVED that there is some physical barrier. The jail scene in ST #4 (p. 12) had Tyra indicating that a relationship between Brom and Melinda would require something (ahem) exceptional -- and in her eyes, abominable.

All of this leads to a point I've known for a while, that in this respect at least, Hearthstone is breaking new ground.

Maybe not totally new .....

In Ringworld Engineers, the sequel to the amazing Ringworld, Larry Niven had humans (who had been taken to the Ringworld millenia before) having diverged genetically to fill various ecological niches. There were bovine types that ate vegetation, "ghouls" that ate corpses, "vampires" that sucked blood and some that were still a lot like us. The parallel is that their, ahem, bodily parts were still pretty much compatible, and interspecies sex, called rishasthra (sp?) was commonly used as part of political negotiations, though the species were not interfertile.

jpholding

October 18th 2006, 12:42 PM

Maybe not totally new .....

In Ringworld Engineers, the sequel to the amazing Ringworld, Larry Niven had humans (who had been taken to the Ringworld millenia before) having diverged genetically to fill various ecological niches.

It does bear some similarities from the looks of it. Do I take from the title that the engineering of humans this way was intentional?

So he has to be able to survive being at ground zero of an atomic explosion, and so on.

Funny you should say that. :wink: Hearthstone has no atomic tech, but...it's something to keep in mind.

If I were JP, and if I cared about this level of detail, I'd probably go with "very long lived" and "invulnerable to most forms of physical damage" rather than "truly immortal". It doesn't effect the story line, and is a ready answer to nit pickers.

Inevitably it may become moot once Hearthstone's resurrection event occurs. Then, if we follow what is supposed of the rez body in the scholarship and as the Jewish perceptions have it, the body will indeed have God as an ultimate unending source of sustaining energy.

Something that thin and that tough would slice through flesh like a razor. A girl would run her fingers through his hair and they would be sliced off!

Someone better warn Lois. :hehe: I didn't read the Niven item myself.

Incidentally, there seem to be two schools in sf regarding scientific probability. One just says, "accept it and enjoy the story" and the other tries to make it fit currently know science, maybe allowing a few exceptions, like ftl travel.

I do both. Elements like polarium (the synthesized metal that allows their vehicles to levitate), the powers of the various characters, and so on have to be acceped under 1). But I also try to make things work within the parameters of 2) where possible. I believe ST:TNG tried to do much the same. Arguably where technology we COULD conceivably reach was concerned.

The Curtmudgeon

October 18th 2006, 02:22 PM

First you date - then you change your species.
:hehe: Sage advice.

Certainly explains where I went wrong....

The (oh, never mind) Curtmudgeon

Alien

October 18th 2006, 03:24 PM

It does bear some similarities from the looks of it. Do I take from the title that the engineering of humans this way was intentional?

No. The title refers to the people who built the Ringworld. The human variations were supposed to have occurred naturally.

It sounds as if you are not familiar with Ringworld. I thoroughly recommend it if you like SF. The Ringworld itself is an artificial structure in the shape of a ring, encircling a star. It has been built at some time in the past out of all the material in a solar system by (someone) as an answer to population pressure (maybe?). It is a million or so miles wide, and umpteen gigamiles long. It rotates to gives gravitational effect, and has miles high "lips" at the edge to retain the atmosphere. There are "shadow squares" rotating between it and the sun to give an alternation of light and dark. People live on the inside surface, of course. Its surface area is thousands (millions?) of times the area of the Earth.

It's interesting that after the first book was published, people did some math and decided that the Ringworld structure was inherently unstable and it would eventually wobble out of orbit and some part of it would strike the sun. There were other quibbles too. Niven listened to them all and cleared up most of them in the second book.

Funny you should say that. :wink: Hearthstone has no atomic tech, but...it's something to keep in mind.

OK.

Inevitably it may become moot once Hearthstone's resurrection event occurs. Then, if we follow what is supposed of the rez body in the scholarship and as the Jewish perceptions have it, the body will indeed have God as an ultimate unending source of sustaining energy.

Rez event, eh? I can't wait!

Someone better warn Lois. :hehe: I didn't read the Niven item myself.

Hmmm, I can't go too far in explaining it here, but just think about the fact that the muscle contractions involved in male ejaculation are involuntary, so the force exerted is not under his control .... The piece was called Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex.

I do both. Elements like polarium (the synthesized metal that allows their vehicles to levitate), the powers of the various characters, and so on have to be acceped under 1). But I also try to make things work within the parameters of 2) where possible. I believe ST:TNG tried to do much the same. Arguably where technology we COULD conceivably reach was concerned.

Sure. You need some stuff that "ain't so" to make it interesting, and it's reasonable to expect a certain amount of suspension of disbelief from the reader. So long as it doesn't descend into pure magic, and you don't have any internal contradictions, you are perfectly in line with any other good imaginative fiction. :smile:

October 18th 2006, 05:18 PM

Um, no.

Didn't think so. :hehe: Won't stop me from quoting you under that name, though.

Well, yes, but so would any sort of biological processes at all. It wouldn't be any sort of permanent change, though, unless you count the replacement of various water molecules with other water molecules.

It really all comes down to the issue of whether or not any sort of internal changes are allowed in the material structure of Eidolon's body. It's high time we put it to Holding to resolve the matter: JP, is change on any level permitted inside Eidolon's body, and if so, what sorts?

This isn't my area of expertise. If you'd taken AP Biology last year, you might know more about it than me.

My school didn't offer any advanced placement science courses (though some of the science courses we did have were tougher than several AP courses combined...) The last biology I took was in tenth grade, and although I got a perfect score on the final exam, I remember very little, so far as I know. When it comes to biology, you undoubtedly know more than I. I can't even name flowers. :tongue:

Oops. You're right. :blush:

:yes: But it's not like you haven't caught me making far greater mistakes.

Oy! :rasberry:

Whilst driving around doing some vegetable chem surveys this morning I mulled over a lot of this issue in terms of Tilkrig compatiblity. Heck, what else is there to think about on the road? Beats modern politics. :hehe:

This is good stuff to discuss, because it's a big help in making the narrative coherent (even if it is fantastic at times).

There are two possibilities I can see when it comes to Tilkrig compatibility with the other races:

1) There's a real and definite barrier, related to their size difference (and relatedly, a mass/weight difference).

I'd have to check with my science friend to work on details for this, if I ever did.

2) The barrier is more imagined than real.

Curiously, I already have some context in place that would allow for this. Eidolon's history reports that until the treaty with the Prycenes, the Tilkrig were a despised race. Combine this with the consideration that interracial marriage has been frowned upon anyway for most of their history, and we have a situation in which a significant psychological barrier could exist to a relationship between a Tilkrig and a member of another race, one which manifests in the assumption that other barriers (particularly physical) exist. In addition, Beamer is one of the first (if not the first, I have not decided) Tilkrig to live in Nullabor, so no one has yet even suggested the idea that the barrier is an imagined one. Perhaps this is a good story to make that point, and I just might leave it open to do so.

Needless to say this isn't a place to get too graphic, but we have it established that it is at least BELIEVED that there is some physical barrier. The jail scene in ST #4 (p. 12) had Tyra indicating that a relationship between Brom and Melinda would require something (ahem) exceptional -- and in her eyes, abominable.

I can easily imagine it being a combination of the two. It seems quite feasible to me that certain physical differences, size being one of them, would make, ah, an incompatible arrangement. Especially if one were to consider the extreme concept of a Tilkrig-Sanslorian pair, of course.

All of this leads to a point I've known for a while, that in this respect at least, Hearthstone is breaking new ground.

:yes:

I'd like to see someone else here adopt the name Slap Me Doubting John. :hehe:

I can't imagine who might be the fellow racing to the head of the line to get a shot at making the first slap. :whistle:

If there are any alterations to the story, they will be minor (to things like dialogue), and/or fully in line with and supporting what I already have -- for example, in RP #1, having Sheila have a premonition about Annabelle being her "best friend" when she first finds her, in line with the premonition she had about the dagger in RP #4 showing that she has this certain ability in her. I'm not going to do like they do with Superman and change things around every 5 minutes. :hehe: My expert consult may also suggest adding some drama to certain scenes that draws them out, but the mega-narrative itself will remain unchanged.

Just so long as you're careful not to disrupt any plot elements. :smile:

You bet. It's good advice. My consult tells me that a lot of works have lost readers because they commit too soon to certain things and then end up having to change stuff.

I can certainly see that happening, and with readers like you've got, you wouldn't want to accidentally create a plot hole.

I'd say so. I'm home for a few hours now, although I have a friendly meeting with a local cartooning club tonight put together by my friend http://www.robsmithjr.com in which I'll be able to get some more views from pros. Then tomorrow I'm home all day too. I can see loading up around 6 PM tomorrow.

Hope the meeting goes well. :smile: And, as always, I'm looking forward to the new pages.

Well, then, I'll hold off on granting you the rights to it. :hehe:

You know who to call when the bucks start rollin' in. :rasberry:

Certainly explains where I went wrong....

The (oh, never mind) Curtmudgeon

:lol:

jpholding

October 19th 2006, 11:05 AM

Howdy folks. We're well set to post an update in a few hours. I only have 4/5 of a page left to color. Then I'll turn to revamps on RP #1 for a while.

It sounds as if you are not familiar with Ringworld. I thoroughly recommend it if you like SF.

I've seen the books (as a librarian would :hehe:) but never read them. My tastes in SF are not towards the serious stuff like Asimov and Niven but the lighter material like Star Trek novelizations.

That said, I consider it a compliment that a serious reader like yourself is reading my work and apparently liking it. :smile:

I can easily imagine it being a combination of the two. It seems quite feasible to me that certain physical differences, size being one of them, would make, ah, an incompatible arrangement. Especially if one were to consider the extreme concept of a Tilkrig-Sanslorian pair, of course.

If I commit to anything here -- and I'm looking for weaknesses in this -- it may be that the Tilkrig are yes, smaller, but also substantially LIGHTER than the other races. Maybe their skeleton is like a bird's (hollow bones?) or like a shark's (cartilage?). It would fit with their acrobatic abilities as well as the history I have in mind for their race. Maybe given their physique and the relative strength of the other races, you could accidentally kill one with a firm and sudden hug or at the very least break their bones. In such circumstances a serious relationship with an Elapine or a Prycene would be dangerous and perhaps even fatal, even if theoretically possible. I can also envision the first time Sheila gave Beamer a hug, him saying something like, "Now be careful with that stuff. I'm fragile." :hehe:

The picture comes to mind of the Far Side cartoon showing, from the back, an obese person posting a "lost dog" poster for their chihuahua, and the dog is embedded in their backside. :hehe:

Just so long as you're careful not to disrupt any plot elements.

No way. :thumb: But to give another example: IN ST #1, after the first meeting of Brom and Von Lucre, maybe I'd add a panel or two of Brom thinking about what nerve Von Lucre has threatening him, and then glancing across the way at the city park thinking it'd be a good place to take a walk and let off steam. Doesn't add to the plot, but does give a chance to see more of the place and develop the character.

Hope the meeting goes well.

Eh -- only my friend and one other guy showed, but it was a good convo. Some interesting notes....

My friend is a purist when it comes to this stuff. He's very dismayed by the way some people think they can use a computer to whip up comics and cartoons and put it on display as though it deserves to be. (That should sound familiar coming from me, too, about apologetics and atheist stuff, eh?)

I showed him some web comics (he had his laptop with him and the place had wi-fi). He liked a few but most he said were terrible (including -- hey, Leonhard? -- "The Wotch"). After I showed him an example of a "sprite comic" he and the other guy said, "We're going to go outside and shoot ourselves now." :lol: He was also surprised that I did the coloration with a free program like GIMP.

We'll likely meet again next month and maybe there will be some more people there.

Teallaura

October 19th 2006, 12:12 PM

...

If I commit to anything here -- and I'm looking for weaknesses in this -- it may be that the Tilkrig are yes, smaller, but also substantially LIGHTER than the other races. Maybe their skeleton is like a bird's (hollow bones?) or like a shark's (cartilage?). It would fit with their acrobatic abilities as well as the history I have in mind for their race. Maybe given their physique and the relative strength of the other races, you could accidentally kill one with a firm and sudden hug or at the very least break their bones. In such circumstances a serious relationship with an Elapine or a Prycene would be dangerous and perhaps even fatal, even if theoretically possible. I can also envision the first time Sheila gave Beamer a hug, him saying something like, "Now be careful with that stuff. I'm fragile." :hehe:]

Two points: Cartilage is a bad idea. Works in sharks because they live in water. Utterly unsuitable for legs that have to counteract gravity on a regular basis. It would deform from the repeated stress of walking - not to mention the acrobatics (think cauliflower ears/noses of boxers).

Also, constant stress, like acrobatics et al, strenghtens bone. It's unlikely that a Tilkrig would have very fragile bones, even if hollow. Why would they be hollow anyway? Tilkrig don't fly and given their attributes would have need of good, solid bone.

Physical incompatibility doesn't eliminate emotional attachment. Think about it, this would eliminate severely physically handicapped people from marrying. I grant it reduces the likelihood - most would be thinking in other terms for potential mates - but it does not eliminate an Elapine and a Tilkrig falling in love with one another. It would just complicate matters - but so does interracial infertility and you already have a couple who may potentially be dealing with that.

EDIT: A thought just occurred to me - what about making them hormonally incompatible? Something like an allergic reaction that occurs with long exposure to mucosal tissue/body fluids. That would make Beamer's actions make more sense since even kissing would be painful for one or the other - or both - but normal day-to-day contact (even shoulder sitting) would not have a negative impact.

jpholding

October 19th 2006, 12:46 PM

Well, here we are...four more pages.

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5013.html

Surprise. :hehe:

Two points: Cartilage is a bad idea. Works in sharks because they live in water.

It's feedback like this that is precisely what I value. With this suggestion:

EDIT: A thought just occurred to me - what about making them hormonally incompatible? Something like an allergic reaction that occurs with long exposure to mucosal tissue/body fluids. That would make Beamer's actions make more sense since even kissing would be painful for one or the other - or both - but normal day-to-day contact (even shoulder sitting) would not have a negative impact.

...I think you gave me something that rivals Darth's idea of a magnetic missile launcher in terms of value to coherence of the narrative. Excellent work. It would also fit very well with their racial history (both that which I have let in on and that which I haven't).

Can anyone see a weakness in this at all?

How'd you like some original art as a reward? :thumb: PM me if so.

I had also spotted a problem with the fragility idea...it would make hash of Beamer being slapped to the ground by that robot in RP #3. Poor guy'd be dead. :sad:

Frogwarrior

October 19th 2006, 01:09 PM

OK... I pretty much fell out of my chair at that one.

Beamer is the man!

And yeah, when reading the prior installments, I was all like "Beamer is such an idiot!" Though, only because I could see myself in such uncomfortable situations.

Not, like exactly the same, because I don't turn into a different race to attract the love of a woman every day.

OK, that was the most unusual first post I've ever made on any forum.

jpholding

October 19th 2006, 02:14 PM

OK... I pretty much fell out of my chair at that one.

Hopefully your bones aren't fragile. :hehe:

And yeah, when reading the prior installments, I was all like "Beamer is such an idiot!" Though, only because I could see myself in such uncomfortable situations.

I'm sure Mrs. H would say I was an idiot at some points during our courtship, too. But she forgives me. :blush:

OK, that was the most unusual first post I've ever made on any forum.

In celebration and for thanks, I'll send you a pearl or two. :thumb:

****

To use this idea of Teal's I find I do have to change something Annabelle says on P. 42 of RP #4, where she clearly says Sheila is "too big" for Beamer. No problem. It's early enough in the game to do that and get away with it. That's why this focus group is helpful. :thumb: OK with you, JB? :hehe:

And I just came across the scene in RP #1 where Beamer licks that suction cup and sticks it to Annanbelle's forehead, but I don't think that's a problem. I'd guess the skin has to be broken for a reaction to occur there.

Teallaura

October 19th 2006, 03:33 PM

...I think you gave me something that rivals Darth's idea of a magnetic missile launcher in terms of value to coherence of the narrative. Excellent work. It would also fit very well with their racial history (both that which I have let in on and that which I haven't). :blush: Thank you.

...

****

To use this idea of Teal's I find I do have to change something Annabelle says on P. 42 of RP #4, where she clearly says Sheila is "too big" for Beamer. No problem. It's early enough in the game to do that and get away with it. That's why this focus group is helpful. :thumb: OK with you, JB? :hehe:

And I just came across the scene in RP #1 where Beamer licks that suction cup and sticks it to Annanbelle's forehead, but I don't think that's a problem. I'd guess the skin has to be broken for a reaction to occur there.Yeah, that's why I specifically said mucosal tissue - they can't be too severely allergic or Tilkrigs couldn't be part of normal society. But it's rare in normal day to day activities for mucosal tissues to come in contact with strangers. And minor exposures shouldn't be a problem (from a tiny cut in Annabelle's case) since the amount would be miniscule.

The 'too big' thing could be a popular misconception (maybe originating from telling it to little ones too young to explain how people get their mucosal tissues together... :ahem:).

October 19th 2006, 04:16 PM

If I commit to anything here -- and I'm looking for weaknesses in this -- it may be that the Tilkrig are yes, smaller, but also substantially LIGHTER than the other races. Maybe their skeleton is like a bird's (hollow bones?) or like a shark's (cartilage?). It would fit with their acrobatic abilities as well as the history I have in mind for their race. Maybe given their physique and the relative strength of the other races, you could accidentally kill one with a firm and sudden hug or at the very least break their bones. In such circumstances a serious relationship with an Elapine or a Prycene would be dangerous and perhaps even fatal, even if theoretically possible. I can also envision the first time Sheila gave Beamer a hug, him saying something like, "Now be careful with that stuff. I'm fragile." :hehe:

Woulda been a funny addition, if it weren't for the problems Teal mentioned with a fragile Tilkrig skeleton and the scene with Beamer getting smacked by the robot.

No way. :thumb: But to give another example: IN ST #1, after the first meeting of Brom and Von Lucre, maybe I'd add a panel or two of Brom thinking about what nerve Von Lucre has threatening him, and then glancing across the way at the city park thinking it'd be a good place to take a walk and let off steam. Doesn't add to the plot, but does give a chance to see more of the place and develop the character.

:yes: That's the sort of stuff I don't mind seeing come along. But whenever you do happen to add things like that, will you be mentioning it (with a link, preferably) in the What's New section?

Eh -- only my friend and one other guy showed, but it was a good convo. Some interesting notes....

Just three of you, eh? I would've imagined at least five.

My friend is a purist when it comes to this stuff. He's very dismayed by the way some people think they can use a computer to whip up comics and cartoons and put it on display as though it deserves to be. (That should sound familiar coming from me, too, about apologetics and atheist stuff, eh?)

Acharya S, for example, can be very glad the Internet has no minimum allowable quality rating. :yes:

I showed him some web comics (he had his laptop with him and the place had wi-fi). He liked a few but most he said were terrible (including -- hey, Leonhard? -- "The Wotch"). After I showed him an example of a "sprite comic" he and the other guy said, "We're going to go outside and shoot ourselves now." :lol: He was also surprised that I did the coloration with a free program like GIMP.

We'll likely meet again next month and maybe there will be some more people there.

Hopefully. :thumb: More feedback is always good.

EDIT: A thought just occurred to me - what about making them hormonally incompatible? Something like an allergic reaction that occurs with long exposure to mucosal tissue/body fluids. That would make Beamer's actions make more sense since even kissing would be painful for one or the other - or both - but normal day-to-day contact (even shoulder sitting) would not have a negative impact.

:thumb: Excellent idea! :teeth:

Well, here we are...four more pages.

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5013.html

Surprise. :hehe

:woohoo: Earlier than I expected, too.

I really feel for Beamer in this story. His anguish really comes across strongly, you've done a very capable job expressing it.

My personal guess is that Sheila isn't quite fully aware of Beamer's romantic intent with this. Once he took the plunge, things went too easy, something's gonna have to give.

I find the latest experiences of the prisoner to be rather ominous. I can see two likely possibilities (and probably several others as well). Either something's a bit glitchy with the new technology, in which case Beamer may be in trouble, or else the Cartel is up to something (then again, when aren't they?) The former seems unlikely if it's a matter of a glitch that had always existed in the technology, since the prisoner had a record as a day-laborer, and I assume that he's been in Elapine form for a while. Of course, some recent event may have brought it on. But, eh, I'm sure the resolution will come in due time and take me off-guard no matter how hard I think about it beforehand. :smile:

I'm sure Mrs. H would say I was an idiot at some points during our courtship, too. But she forgives me. :blush:

"Some points"? Hmm, sounds like you've gotten worse with age. :rasberry:

To use this idea of Teal's I find I do have to change something Annabelle says on P. 42 of RP #4, where she clearly says Sheila is "too big" for Beamer. No problem. It's early enough in the game to do that and get away with it. That's why this focus group is helpful. :thumb: OK with you, JB? :hehe:

Oh I suppose. :wink: Asking permission first--I see we've trained you well. :hehe:

The 'too big' thing could be a popular misconception (maybe originating from telling it to little ones too young to explain how people get their mucosal tissues together... :ahem:).

I can see that as a highly plausible explanation. :smile: Good work again.

jpholding

October 19th 2006, 04:20 PM

:blush: Thank you.

I has the smartest readers on de Innternet. :thumb: :teeth:

The 'too big' thing could be a popular misconception (maybe originating from telling it to little ones too young to explain how people get their mucosal tissues together... :ahem:).

The rub of that is that Annabelle should know better, being married to a biologist/geneticist kind of guy.... :nc: But I changed it to say "incompatible biology" and the insider feature of RP4 will give you kudos once I finish the revamp.

jpholding

October 19th 2006, 04:30 PM

Yikes. Okay, one more before I cook my very late lunch.... :hehe:

:yes: That's the sort of stuff I don't mind seeing come along. But whenever you do happen to add things like that, will you be mentioning it (with a link, preferably) in the What's New section?

I will, yes.

Just three of you, eh? I would've imagined at least five.

I would have hoped so too. But he once told me the local Inkslinger club was a little, erm, disinterested in meetings.

I really feel for Beamer in this story. His anguish really comes across strongly, you've done a very capable job expressing it.

I thank you. :bow: I expect you'll also appreciate the installment coming after this next one. The next one will provide a little comedy relief with the prisoner and the physician interacting, but after that, we'll once again be causing Beamer some anguish. His choice will be shown to have been an even more difficult one than he realized it would be, and finds he'll have to pay a much higher price if he wants to stay an Elapine.

I'll leave the speculation without specific comment this time. :wink: And I welcome it as helpful for prevention of plot holes, too. There wasn't one this time, but the level of thought you put into it is such that I can see where it would be able to have that function when necessary.

"Some points"? Hmm, sounds like you've gotten worse with age. :rasberry:

That's not the way to get to your 15th anniversary and beyond, sonny. :hehe:

But anyways, here's a just-done revamp page of RP #1. A little added drama with the hand clasp that wasn't there before.

Darth Executor

October 19th 2006, 04:54 PM

I has the smartest readers on de Innternet. :thumb: :teeth:

Yep. I knew beforehand that Sheila would say yes when Beamer asked her out too. :smug:

Darth Executor

October 19th 2006, 05:13 PM

I'm sure Mrs. H would say I was an idiot at some points during our courtship, too. But she forgives me. :blush:

Aww.

October 19th 2006, 05:25 PM

Yikes. Okay, one more before I cook my very late lunch.... :hehe:

I wonder how spicy you'll make it this time. :tongue:

I will, yes.

Good.

I would have hoped so too. But he once told me the local Inkslinger club was a little, erm, disinterested in meetings.

Heh, silly cartoonists... So would I be right in assuming that the meeting was the public appearance at Big Boy Restaurant mentioned on Rob's site?

I thank you. :bow:

You're welcome. :smile:

I expect you'll also appreciate the installment coming after this next one. The next one will provide a little comedy relief with the prisoner and the physician interacting

Comedy relief is always welcome in my book. :yes:

but after that, we'll once again be causing Beamer some anguish. His choice will be shown to have been an even more difficult one than he realized it would be, and finds he'll have to pay a much higher price if he wants to stay an Elapine.

The poor little guy. :frown: I'm just glad that in the very end, things'll work out well for 'im.

I'll leave the speculation without specific comment this time. :wink:

Hmm, maybe I'm onto something this time. :smile:

And I welcome it as helpful for prevention of plot holes, too. There wasn't one this time, but the level of thought you put into it is such that I can see where it would be able to have that function when necessary.

:teeth: Thanks, JP.

That's not the way to get to your 15th anniversary and beyond, sonny. :hehe:

Neither is forgetting which anniversary it is (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showpost.php?p=1298139&postcount=95). :rasberry:

But anyways, here's a just-done revamp page of RP #1. A little added drama with the hand clasp that wasn't there before.

Good work. :yes:

One more thing quickly:

Here's an idea...perks to subscribe early, before certain things are put on password only. Not sure what perks, but I'm sure I can think of some. (Source (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showpost.php?p=1647930&postcount=69))

This "early", when are we talking here? Wouldn't want to miss the deadline, though from the looks of it the subscribing mechanism hasn't yet been put up.

Frogwarrior

October 19th 2006, 05:36 PM

I wonder how spicy you'll make it this time. :tongue:
Well, you know how JP like to make things extra-spicy, if you know what I mean. :teeth:

jpholding

October 19th 2006, 06:24 PM

Yep. I knew beforehand that Sheila would say yes when Beamer asked her out too. :smug:

Those 50-50 calls tend to up yer average, don't they? :hehe:

jpholding

October 19th 2006, 06:28 PM

I wonder how spicy you'll make it this time. :tongue:

It was chili, but I didn't bother with extras this round. Not enough time.

Heh, silly cartoonists... So would I be right in assuming that the meeting was the public appearance at Big Boy Restaurant mentioned on Rob's site?

Yep. Soup bar was good.

Neither is forgetting which anniversary it is (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showpost.php?p=1298139&postcount=95). :rasberry:

Mrs. H isn't particular about me remembering the number. Remembering the day (and her birthday too) gets me the kudos. :yes: You'll find out the way it is.

This "early", when are we talking here? Wouldn't want to miss the deadline, though from the looks of it the subscribing mechanism hasn't yet been put up.

I'm thinking first year -- 11/30/07 thru 11/30/08. Plenty of time.

***

I'll be having to abandon the sabbatical for one day tomorrow to meet with someone about ministry business. But anyway, the next order of business is to finish the revamp of RP #1.

Teallaura

October 19th 2006, 06:30 PM

I has the smartest readers on de Innternet. :thumb: :teeth::blushing:

The rub of that is that Annabelle should know better, being married to a biologist/geneticist kind of guy.... :nc: But I changed it to say "incompatible biology" and the insider feature of RP4 will give you kudos once I finish the revamp.:smile: Thanks!

Teallaura

October 21st 2006, 11:13 AM

...

I seem to recall when Flash was a TV show that they showed him gobbling lots of pizza in one scene. If you do delve into the practical aspects, you may indeed show some things like this. OTOH Superman clearly would need a lot of fuel, but I have no recollection of the issue ever being raised. He'd have to scarf down a McDonald's a day (the whole building too :hehe:) to keep going for real, I'd bet.

.. I just noticed this. Actually, Superman draws his power from the sun. Not sure about the current manifestation (DC made some changes since I last collected comics much), but originally, Superman didn't actually need to eat.

Of course, the hole in the ozone makes a good excuse for him spending so much time in Antartica - pity it wasn't around 50 years ago! :wink:

Leonhard

October 21st 2006, 01:36 PM

I do seem to recall Brom noticing an increased appetite after eating the Selalighi. It sure seems like some of these guys would be eating a pretty enormous amount, though. Anyone want to calculate about how many Calories Brimstone burns in a day?

Never fear, the Guestimator is here!

Well actually I wouldn't know, depends upon, how othen he feels like throwing around a 1000 ton tree.

If Hearthstones gravity is about as strong as ours, then he would have expended something of the order of 20MJ or 5 million calories. That is of course if he did so with no loss of energy due to inefficiencies.

I think a normal person expends about 100-200W during the day (what do you think Teal? I think athletes expend even more energy, but I might be off), so during 24 hours he would spend somewhere around 17MJ. So that tree throwing scene on shriketoon3047 (http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/shriketoon3/shriketoon3047.html) would have cost him about as much energy as he would normally expend during the day. Throwing one tree might not be noticable, but throwing ten just might affect his appetite.

Sonica is in even bigger trouble, running around at the speed of sound is extremely costly in energy. The power needed to maintain the same speed against air drag is aproximatly proportional to the cube of the speed. I don't know how well this estimate holds up when the speed becomes very large, but lets use it.

If Sonica has an aerodynamic coefficient of 0.1 (very generous, it would be atleast twice that), a frontal area of 0.25 (again very generous) and Hearthstone has about the same density of air as on Earth, then she would need to expend somewhere around 1-2MW to move at the speed of sound. If she doubles her speed the energy cost becomes eight times higher, if she halfs her speed it becomes eight times lower. Unless that girl had some speciel energy source, then I'm afraid she would have to stop to eat every few seconds.

but the bigger problem for Brett and Annabelle is explaining how they can hold up under such a wide range of temperatures. Theoretically they could be altered at the molecular level to function at extreme body temperatures (which would involve altering their DNA even), but that would make them unable to return to normal.

Hmm... on rangtoon1074 (http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon1/rangtoon1-74.html)
Beamer stamement could be taken to mean that it fundementally changed their matter and not just their biology. Perhaps when Annabelle and Brett drop into their Snowdrop and Brimstone modes, then their specific heat changes as well, Snowdrop would get a higher specific heat and Brett would get a lower specific heat.

The only thing I don't understand about Snowdrop is where she puts all the heat she gathers? Apperently she can zap out the heat of various items, like here rangtoon1064 (http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon1/rangtoon1-64.html) but where did the heat energy from Severin go? Perhaps Snowdrop and Brimstone form a circuit where the energy she gathers is dumped into Brett who expels it. Of course that breaks the second law of thermodynamics but who's counting anyway.

Btw on rangtoon5013 (http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5013.html) we see Annabelle in Snowdrop mode, which makes sense since Brett isn't around, but she's handling paper! rangtoon1029 (http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon1/rangtoon1-29.html) pretty much makes it clear that she is ultra cold, ordinary clothes shatter, so why can she handle paper?

Initially, I wasn't sure if perhaps Eidolon's invulnerability might make it rather unfeasible, if not actually impossible, to obtain a DNA sample from him.

Meh, they'll just need to stuff him inside a very powerful and well alligned electromagnet, then pulse him with three different radio waves, changing the frequencies over the next several months. Then from the returning signals from him, they might just be able to deduce his DNA.

Does resurrection change our DNA? I know of no commentator who thinks so. I think resurrection is more of a case of energy being added that protects us from vulnerability.

I don't know of any commentators that mention DNA other than for Genisis :hehe:

I hope that the flaws in our bodies will be changed, but for a person like me that raises several questions. I'm an asperg autist, a mental handicap which affects my social abillities, however I'm also intelligent enough to be able to cope with it, so I'm not handicapped in the usual sense. I've always worried that my personality would change alot if that got 'healed', of course I trust God to do it, if its his will, but still... Makes me wonder how different we will be after being rezzed.

There's also the question of how God intends to keep us from sinning again. I don't of any biological changes that would be strong enough, but perhaps the presence of the Holy Spirit, will make it impossible.

I showed him some web comics (he had his laptop with him and the place had wi-fi). He liked a few but most he said were terrible (including -- hey, Leonhard? -- "The Wotch").

Hey, that was just to encourage you :glare:

I was showing you the topwebcomics (http://www.topwebcomics.com) as far as I remember. Would rather having me show you GirlGeniusOnline (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com), or FlipSide (http://www.flipsidecomics.com), or Interloch (http://www.seraph-inn.com)...

I was trying to say, "Hey mr. H? Look at this webcomic, it churns in 1000$ in donations pr month, is placed at nr. 18 on the topwebcomics page and its got a worse quality than yours!"

Yes I read TheWotch, it's badly drawn, it got cheezy characters, but hey it gives me something entertaining to read between lectures.

Good job so far, can't wait to see how Beamer will handle the date and how Sheila will deal with him. I'm guessing he's gonna spill some beans about his past.

jpholding

October 21st 2006, 02:41 PM

Never fear, the Guestimator is here!

Sounds like a new superhero to me. Big G on your chest, or else some kind of mathemaical symbol. :hehe:

You and JB have dibs on writing the Nitpicker's Guide to Hearthstone, with Teal as managing editor. :lol: I love this stuff.

The only thing I'd like to offer any speculation on:

Btw on rangtoon5013 (http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5013.html) we see Annabelle in Snowdrop mode, which makes sense since Brett isn't around, but she's handling paper!

You think that's bad? How is it Brimstone in the hostel room rangtoon2050 (http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon2/rangtoon2050.html) isn't setting the carpet and stuff on fire? :hehe:

Arguably, when there is no emotional factor involved, and apart from any conscious expression of the energy (shooting it out as rays, etc.) whatever items they touch need a certain level of exposure before they are affected. Annabelle was unconscious for a bit, giving her dress time to be slowly frozen.

But add some emotion and things get dicey. Annabelle's anger at Sevrin would have caused her power to increase unconsciously. So likewise would her emotional state at the time of discovery on first waking up (hence the frostbite done to Brett when he first touched her). Of course at the time they'd have no idea how there was a connection between their emotions and the level of power expressed.

pretty much makes it clear that she is ultra cold, ordinary clothes shatter, so why can she handle paper?

Well, if the light bill is too high and she gets angry you can probably kiss that particular piece of paper goodbye. :hehe: And as for Brett, since his recharge emotion is joy, keep him off the couch when the Three Stooges comedies are on the tube. :hehe: Unless you want to get rid of the couch.

I'm an asperg autist, a mental handicap which affects my social abillities, however I'm also intelligent enough to be able to cope with it,

Wheh! My little brother is asperg autist too, did you know that?

There's also the question of how God intends to keep us from sinning again.

Kyle Gerkin (friendly atheist) asked me that once. I suggested that it was a combo of changes to our body PLUS the experience we would have had on earth which would keep us from sin, and the addition of the Holy Spirit won't hurt either. :wink:

Hey, that was just to encourage you :glare:

Oh. Sorry. :blush: It was encouraging, though.

Good job so far, can't wait to see how Beamer will handle the date and how Sheila will deal with him. I'm guessing he's gonna spill some beans about his past.

You're right, he will, and it's going to be pretty sad stuff. We already know from RP #4 how cruel the Sk'lan were to the Sanslorian, and you can imagine they don't treat their Tilkrig slaves well either.

Today I expect to finish the RP #1 revamp, which means all the past 8 stories will have been reformatted. More RP likely on Tuesday since I'm still on sabbatical. :teeth:

Abykale

October 21st 2006, 04:30 PM

Anyone want to calculate about how many Calories Brimstone burns in a day?
Never fear, the Guestimator is here!

Well actually I wouldn't know, depends upon, how othen he feels like throwing around a 1000 ton tree.

Um, I said Brimstone, not Brom, who I would've expected to need less energy. I was thinking of Brett specifically because it should be relatively easy to convert an estimate of the amount of heat he gives off into calories.

Hmm... on rangtoon1074 (http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon1/rangtoon1-74.html)
Beamer stamement could be taken to mean that it fundementally changed their matter and not just their biology.

I thought of that as well, but if they're not immortal like Eidolon then they'll eventually be incorporating normal matter into their bodies.

Abykale

October 21st 2006, 04:48 PM

Well, if the light bill is too high and she gets angry you can probably kiss that particular piece of paper goodbye. :hehe: And as for Brett, since his recharge emotion is joy, keep him off the couch when the Three Stooges comedies are on the tube. :hehe: Unless you want to get rid of the couch.
Or, have Annabelle watch them with him. Poor girl.

Leonhard

October 21st 2006, 06:13 PM

You think that's bad? How is it Brimstone in the hostel room rangtoon2050 (http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon2/rangtoon2050.html) isn't setting the carpet and stuff on fire?

Easy :teeth: the black parts of his body are alot colder than the rest of him. You would still get burned from touching those parts, but they aren't hot enough to ignite stuff.

If I could draw better, I would send you a couple of strips with small problems that the superpowers generate. Imagine Annabelle stuck in the shower because her hand froze to the wall, or Brom having trouble because he now has a very firm handshake, or Sonica using her powers to get somewhere quickly because she was in a hurry, and the turbulence she creates knocks down alot people.

Wheh! My little brother is asperg autist too, did you know that?

Cool, I guess then you understand. Mind if I ask how he's doing? Its been a struggle for me, but I've become fully independent.

Kyle Gerkin (friendly atheist) asked me that once. I suggested that it was a combo of changes to our body PLUS the experience we would have had on earth which would keep us from sin, and the addition of the Holy Spirit won't hurt either. :wink:

Hmm, we'll see when we get there.

Oh. Sorry. :blush: It was encouraging, though.

Thanks, it was meant to be. :smile:

Today I expect to finish the RP #1 revamp, which means all the past 8 stories will have been reformatted. More RP likely on Tuesday since I'm still on sabbatical. :teeth:

You're the only webcomic artist that I've seen so far, that goes back to redo the old part of the comic. Amazing... really!

jpholding

October 22nd 2006, 08:06 AM

Or, have Annabelle watch them with him. Poor girl.

Hey now...Mrs H. (the model for Annabelle) LIKES 3ST stuff! :glare:

jpholding

October 22nd 2006, 08:10 AM

If I could draw better, I would send you a couple of strips with small problems that the superpowers generate.

Actually, the sounds like stuff I could use for bonus features for subscribers! :thumb: Along with, "Sheila on a typical date - with Bimf chaperoning!" (BTW he won't be needed for the date with Beamer...Sheila figures she can trust Beamer to behave, and she's right.) Thanks for some great ideas!

My expert consult also gave me an idea for a feature called "Ask D'ung" -- in which a Cartel agent answers mail by insulting everyone who writes!

Cool, I guess then you understand. Mind if I ask how he's doing? Its been a struggle for me, but I've become fully independent.

He just turned 18 and is doing very well, thank you. Not sure where he'll go from here just yet.

You're the only webcomic artist that I've seen so far, that goes back to redo the old part of the comic. Amazing... really!

My consult tells me that redoing old work is something a lot of the better anime artists do. I just can't help it -- I like to do the best I can.

Abykale

October 22nd 2006, 05:08 PM

My expert consult also gave me an idea for a feature called "Ask D'ung" -- in which a Cartel agent answers mail by insulting everyone who writes.

:lol: :thumb:

My consult tells me that redoing old work is something a lot of the better anime artists do. I just can't help it -- I like to do the best I can.

Yeah, most of my favorite webcomics are doing or have done the same thing.

Frogwarrior

October 22nd 2006, 05:43 PM

Hey now...Mrs H. (the model for Annabelle) LIKES 3ST stuff! :glare:
You, sir, have found a gem. :wink:

jpholding

October 23rd 2006, 09:58 AM

Yeah, most of my favorite webcomics are doing or have done the same thing.

I'd be interested in links to the best three in your view. You can post them here or PM me.

My expert consult has been reviewing RP #1 and while most of the changes he has suggested are technical or presentation-oriented, he's made a couple of story suggestions too. These would be more of the type that are not wholesale changes, but as I told JB, things that fit with what is there already and add depth.

For example:

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon1/rangtoon1-40.html

My consult suggested that the team might offer a prayer to M'kai before the assault. Bimf and Sheila are both devout and would certainly do this, and Annabelle would certainly join them. It would be a good way for them to first realize they're all of the Covenant.

Except Beamer of course. This would also be the place to first indicate his atheism and why he holds to it. Beamer can watch them pray, rolling his eyes and wondering to himself how they can keep their faith in light of the evil in the world (especially Bimf, given how much he has suffered). Also a chance for him to mouth off a bit, not to Sheila or Bimf because of the way he feels about them, but perhaps this sort of dialogue could ensue afterwards with Annabelle:

Beamer: "Miss Ketterling, I have a hard time believing a deity exists that does nothing about evil like the Cartel."

Annabelle: "How do you know sending you wasn't something?"

You, sir, have found a gem.

I have indeed. And I tell her that every day. :love:

I'll look to post something new on RP #5 by Wednesday at the latest.

October 23rd 2006, 04:57 PM

Hey now...Mrs H. (the model for Annabelle) LIKES 3ST stuff! :glare:

You's a lucky man, JP. :smile:

Actually, the sounds like stuff I could use for bonus features for subscribers! :thumb: Along with, "Sheila on a typical date - with Bimf chaperoning!" (BTW he won't be needed for the date with Beamer...Sheila figures she can trust Beamer to behave, and she's right.) Thanks for some great ideas!

A lot of the bonus features you've been tossing out as ideas sound great so far. :thumb:

My expert consult also gave me an idea for a feature called "Ask D'ung" -- in which a Cartel agent answers mail by insulting everyone who writes!

To quote a fast-food giant... I'm lovin' it. :teeth:

For example:

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon1/rangtoon1-40.html

My consult suggested that the team might offer a prayer to M'kai before the assault. Bimf and Sheila are both devout and would certainly do this, and Annabelle would certainly join them. It would be a good way for them to first realize they're all of the Covenant.

Except Beamer of course. This would also be the place to first indicate his atheism and why he holds to it. Beamer can watch them pray, rolling his eyes and wondering to himself how they can keep their faith in light of the evil in the world (especially Bimf, given how much he has suffered). Also a chance for him to mouth off a bit, not to Sheila or Bimf because of the way he feels about them, but perhaps this sort of dialogue could ensue afterwards with Annabelle:

Beamer: "Miss Ketterling, I have a hard time believing a deity exists that does nothing about evil like the Cartel."

Annabelle: "How do you know sending you wasn't something?"

I give you and your consult both an A+.

I have indeed. And I tell her that every day. :love:

Perhaps we need you to stop over here (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=85840) and give the frat guys a few lessons on what it means to have a happy marriage. :wink:

I'll look to post something new on RP #5 by Wednesday at the latest.

May Wednesday come swiftly.

jpholding

October 24th 2006, 11:42 AM

I have a subject I need feedback on, but first:

Perhaps we need you to stop over here (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=85840) and give the frat guys a few lessons on what it means to have a happy marriage. :wink:

I've considered it, actually.

Now here's a question. Check the following examples:

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon1/rangtoon1-88.html
http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon2/rangtoon2069.html (last panel)
http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/shriketoon3/shriketoon3038.html

What do these all have in common?

Answer: They are all examples of what is called "breaking the fourth wall" -- places in which the characters of the story show an awareness, so to speak, of their status as part of a comic book. This can mean a direct appeal to the reader (first example) or a reference to some artificiality of the creation (other two).

Question for feedback: What is your reaction, if any, when this sort of thing is done, specifically in the Hearthstone stories?

I'll wait for a few answers, then write further on the subject.

jpholding

October 24th 2006, 03:57 PM

Three more pages...

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5017.html

Comedy relief interlude. :teeth: The next one will be 5 pages and I want to work on the revamp some, so let's say Monday as a target date.

Don't get used to this -- my sabbatical may end the day after that. :bawl:

Darth Executor

October 24th 2006, 04:02 PM

You could retire and work on toons full time. It's not like there are any new shining stars of skepticism that are saying anything new. :teeth:

Darth Executor

October 24th 2006, 04:05 PM

Hmm. After reading this (should've thought of it earlier), I'm guessing the device causes some sort of instability and the subject has to be returned to its original form or he'll die (or mutate into Mr. Hyde or something). Maybe this was even suggested already but I can't remember.

October 24th 2006, 04:53 PM

I've considered it, actually.

And you're being held back by... what, precisely? :tongue: I'm sure Nick would love to hear your input, and undoubtedly some of the other guys would also benefit.

Now here's a question. Check the following examples:

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon1/rangtoon1-88.html
http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon2/rangtoon2069.html (last panel)
http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/shriketoon3/shriketoon3038.html

What do these all have in common?

Answer: They are all examples of what is called "breaking the fourth wall" -- places in which the characters of the story show an awareness, so to speak, of their status as part of a comic book. This can mean a direct appeal to the reader (first example) or a reference to some artificiality of the creation (other two).

Question for feedback: What is your reaction, if any, when this sort of thing is done, specifically in the Hearthstone stories?

I'll wait for a few answers, then write further on the subject.

I personally don't mind it, since it can make for a very humorous quip, and I adore comedy. However, it could well be argued that breaking the fourth wall has a tendency to reduce the level of realism, forcing the reader to briefly acknowledge the full fictionality of Hearthstone--hence, the suspension of disbelief is disrupted and the reader becomes briefly disconnected from the deeper levels of engrossment.

As to whether that's worth it, is for the creator and the readers to judge (hopefully, there will be concordance between their perspectives). If I were in your place... heh, if I were in your case, Hearthstone wouldn't get drawn, because I'm horrible at drawing. :tongue: That aside, I personally would probably reserve breaking the fourth wall for various bonus pieces and restrain from doing so in the mainline Hearthstone comics. That's simply because Hearthstone is so naturally engrossing that I'd want to make sure the reader's get the fullest and deepest experience of it, without running a risk of having to deal with that disconnect. Besides, I consider breaking the fourth wall to be something analogous to the conundrum of Hobbes' nature in the famed strip Calvin and Hobbes. There's a tension created that is difficult to resolve if you truly want to harmonize absolutely everything in the Hearthstone universe, including those little bits added purely for comedy's sake.

Just my incoherent reflections. :smile:

Three more pages...

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5017.html

Comedy relief interlude. :teeth: The next one will be 5 pages and I want to work on the revamp some, so let's say Monday as a target date.

:hehe: That Sk'lan sure holds hard and fast to his principles, eh?

He looks so happy in that last panel. Well done.

Don't get used to this -- my sabbatical may end the day after that. :bawl:

:frown: We've been spoiled with these frequent updates.

The Curtmudgeon

October 24th 2006, 05:59 PM

Answer: They are all examples of what is called "breaking the fourth wall" -- places in which the characters of the story show an awareness, so to speak, of their status as part of a comic book. This can mean a direct appeal to the reader (first example) or a reference to some artificiality of the creation (other two).

Question for feedback: What is your reaction, if any, when this sort of thing is done, specifically in the Hearthstone stories?

I'll wait for a few answers, then write further on the subject.

My tuppence-ha'penny: I think that breaking the fourth wall works in two situations:
When the intent of the comic is generally humour, it can be successfully used quite often (see Byrne's run on She-Hulk, f'rinstance, where it was seemingly in every panel or at least every page); or
Where the comic is not primarily intended for humour, it can be used sporadically to call attention to a very important point (sort of a "Hey, reader, pay attention here!"), or very sporadically for comic relief.

Obviously, Hearthstone fits the second category. I would therefore suggest, as a personal opinion only, that you keep it down to less than once a chapter. Say, out of the nine chapters that you've done (or started) so far, maybe 3-6 times in total would be a good level.

The (just one man's opinion, as per usual) Curtmudgeon

jpholding

October 24th 2006, 06:02 PM

You could retire and work on toons full time. It's not like there are any new shining stars of skepticism that are saying anything new. :teeth:

Don't think I'm not tempted for precisely that reason.....

CS Lewis worked on creative stuff for a good chunk of his life and apologetics for the other chunk. No reason I can't do the same.

Your theory about the helmet will receive an answer before the story is over. And don't expect this to be the last you'll see of those things in the series....

And you're being held back by... what, precisely?

Mrs H would prefer that I not air too much personal stuff. Even with our alter egos Snowdrop and Brimstone, a lot of what you see is modified so as not to reveal too much.

She loves that I put "us" in there but I can't be too detailed.

Excellent thoughts on the 4th wall issue. I'll wait for some more before I say anything else.

I did a bunch of revamp stuff meanwhile....mostly cosmetic although I'm moving around a few pics and adding some new ones. The Peoples of Hearthstone section will become its own page with pics of the races themselves, their symbols, and as much else as I can squeeze in.

Back tomorrow.

Frogwarrior

October 24th 2006, 10:46 PM

Mrs H would prefer that I not air too much personal stuff.Can you say "whipped?" :hehe:
:eek:

jpholding

October 25th 2006, 12:28 PM

Can you say "whipped?" :hehe:
:eek:

Er, no. You can say "mutual respect".

Maybe I should deliver some advice to you guys after all. :rasberry:

Frogwarrior

October 25th 2006, 01:40 PM

Er, no. You can say "mutual respect".

Maybe I should deliver some advice to you guys after all. :rasberry:
I was joking, y'know. :wink:

And I HAVE never had a girlfriend, so if you're giving advice... :teeth:
(j/k) :eek:

jpholding

October 25th 2006, 02:32 PM

I was joking, y'know. :wink:

Yeah, I know. But I'm not big on jokes about marriage. :sad: No offense.

And I HAVE never had a girlfriend, so if you're giving advice... :teeth:
(j/k) :eek:

More seriously, it seems to me that there's too much difficulty these days, and I've gotten some pretty horrible letters from people about how hard it is to establish a serious relationship. I just don't get it, frankly. We have a lot of lonely people who are desperate to keep each other at arms' length. :lolo:

Darth Executor

October 25th 2006, 05:35 PM

More seriously, it seems to me that there's too much difficulty these days, and I've gotten some pretty horrible letters from people about how hard it is to establish a serious relationship. I just don't get it, frankly. We have a lot of lonely people who are desperate to keep each other at arms' length. :lolo:

Probably because they fool themselves into thinking they want a serious relationship when they want a fairytale relationship.

jpholding

October 25th 2006, 05:48 PM

Probably because they fool themselves into thinking they want a serious relationship when they want a fairytale relationship.

I wouldn't doubt that. Mrs. H is legally (not totally) blind -- she can see 20/60 with corrective lenses, but that's it. And I can recall how often in school those with disabilities were shunned and rejected for not being perfect.

As far as I'm concerned, that's the loss of the idiots who rejected her, and my gain. Those who seek to gain their life will lose it, and the debutantes and jocks who sought perfection are helping up our divorce stats.

On a more pleasant note, I worked quite a bit on the revamp today, particularly the almanac section. I'll get back to some RP #5 pages tomorrow. I was able to ink a number of them while waiting on the car to have the oil changed.

TuckEverlasting

October 25th 2006, 05:56 PM

Question for feedback: What is your reaction, if any, when this sort of thing is done, specifically in the Hearthstone stories?

I love it when it's done well, and sparingly, as you've done here. It just adds another dimension of humour and reminds us not to take the fiction too seriously. :thumb:

Frogwarrior

October 25th 2006, 09:57 PM

Yeah, I know. But I'm not big on jokes about marriage. :sad: No offense.None taken. If you saw a certain other thread in the Fraternity section... basically, it was a negative joke about marriage... and I'm not even married (duh) and I blew a couple fuses.
I do love irony.
I'll just keep that in mind in the future.

More seriously, it seems to me that there's too much difficulty these days, and I've gotten some pretty horrible letters from people about how hard it is to establish a serious relationship. I just don't get it, frankly. We have a lot of lonely people who are desperate to keep each other at arms' length. :lolo:
Quite a conundrum. I think people seek the obviously good things about relationships (companionship, trust, or... I think there's a really obvious one, but I'm not sure) and don't want the somewhat more difficult bits (obligation, commitment), unaware that the one without the other doesn't work. It's like trying to deny your cake and eat it too.
Goes back to the whole American culture promoting selfishness thing that can so irk me at times.

When it comes to "relationships," I've never had a lab but I know plenty of theory. :teeth:

C. S. Lewis worked on creative stuff for a good chunk of his life and apologetics for the other chunk. No reason I can't do the same.But if you stopped, who would give people who really need it a good smackdown? :sad:

As for the fourth wall thing, it, like all techniques, can be done well or terribly. It's probably a lot easier to do it terribly, which may be why it can have a stigma associated with it... but, as others have said, you do it quite well.

And I have to say... It really, really is refreshing to see a fantasy/scifi-type story that does NOT have either a seclar humanist or hippy new-age worldview behind it. I rarely encounter such things, usually I have to say "enjoy the story, just ignore the philosophy... enjoy the story..." Whereas, here I can enjoy the story (and characters - Brom Shriker rules) AND the setting. Now that's high-class.

Spheniscine

October 25th 2006, 10:05 PM

And I have to say... It really, really is refreshing to see a fantasy/scifi-type story that does NOT have either a seclar humanist or hippy new-age worldview behind it. I rarely encounter such things, usually I have to say "enjoy the story, just ignore the philosophy... enjoy the story..." Whereas, here I can enjoy the story (and characters - Brom Shriker rules) AND the setting. Now that's high-class.
Agreed.

jpholding

October 26th 2006, 07:15 AM

Quite a conundrum. I think people seek the obviously good things about relationships (companionship, trust, or... I think there's a really obvious one, but I'm not sure) and don't want the somewhat more difficult bits (obligation, commitment), unaware that the one without the other doesn't work. It's like trying to deny your cake and eat it too.

Not willing to work to preserve the relationship and make it function, in other words? A case of looking for self-gratification from the other?

I just can't grasp thinking like that.

But if you stopped, who would give people who really need it a good smackdown? :sad:

I won't ever stop completely. If I had to state an ideal it would be that I'd just be putting the material in other venues, like that gift book. Going that direction will mean less time needed, but more sporadic times of great activity.

And I have to say... It really, really is refreshing to see a fantasy/scifi-type story that does NOT have either a seclar humanist or hippy new-age worldview behind it. I rarely encounter such things, usually I have to say "enjoy the story, just ignore the philosophy... enjoy the story..." Whereas, here I can enjoy the story (and characters - Brom Shriker rules) AND the setting. Now that's high-class.

Interesting you should say this. As part of the revamp I'm adding more info in the almanac, and with the expectation that non-Christians may read it once I start doing more promos, the section on "Religion" now reads:

****

The people of Hearthstone are a devout bunch, and I make no bones about this. If you're offended by religious expressions and spirituality, this is not going to be your type of story. In the tradition of Lewis' Narnia series, an idea of God, with a specifically Christian outlook, underlies what you'll find here. But I think that unless you have read this paragraph, you may not find it that obvious.
*******
I can hardly wait for someone to say (as of the Narnia movie), "Why, this is Christianity in disguise! Danger!" :hehe:

Frogwarrior

October 26th 2006, 12:35 PM

Not willing to work to preserve the relationship and make it function, in other words? A case of looking for self-gratification from the other?

I just can't grasp thinking like that.
Welcome to 21st Century America. :sad:

jpholding

October 26th 2006, 06:32 PM

I'll have the next installment up tomorrow late in the morning. Also finished the revamp on the Almanac section. Next up, the Etcetera section.

I've not been sticking to my sabbatical too well so I'll get to let it go a bit longer. :sigh:

Meanwhile, for fun, here's one of Eidolon as he was in the ancient age of Hearthstone. This is how he'll look when Brom meets him on his time travel trip. Someone who saw it said he might give Moses a run for his money.

[attachment=1]

Leonhard

October 26th 2006, 08:06 PM

Abykale

October 27th 2006, 02:50 AM

How does that cape stay attached?

jpholding

October 27th 2006, 06:45 AM

You can't go wrong with an exclamation mark on your shorts :lol: This is during the shattering of Northwest, am I correct?

Just before it.

How does that cape stay attached?

That rope on his neck is attached to it.

Also note the red gem. It's not worn down as much, is it? It's the same one. He keeps it on him and it's been slowly worn down over the ages into what it is now.

Darth Executor

October 27th 2006, 09:37 AM

Does the gem have any powers?

jpholding

October 27th 2006, 10:19 AM

Does the gem have any powers?

Not that I have planned. My one idea so far for it is that he keeps it on his neck as a sort of a symbol of his pain. It's been worn down and polished over the ages simply by rubbing against him, just as he has been worn down (in his heart) by the circuit of time.

He has this thing for keeping stuff, you've noticed, and I have something special related to that for the end of the first crossover story.

OK -- time to finish up the update for today.

jpholding

October 27th 2006, 12:07 PM

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5020.html

Four more pages. Enjoy. I'm gonna work on revamp of the Etcetera section.

Leonhard

October 27th 2006, 05:48 PM

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5020.html

Four more pages. Enjoy. I'm gonna work on revamp of the Etcetera section.

Aww poor Beamer :bawl: Its every technical geeks worst nightmare to lose their spark...

Nice job though on page 23 you really get their emotions expessed well, especially third and fourth panel. Their worried expressions were really convincing. The only bad thing I have to say is about the fith panel, where is his nose?!! This isn't the first time this happens, I know its part of your style, but he had barely turned his head, and the thing dissapears. I mean it looks like he had just run into a wall for crying out loud.

jpholding

October 27th 2006, 06:24 PM

The only bad thing I have to say is about the fith panel, where is his nose?!! This isn't the first time this happens, I know its part of your style, but he had barely turned his head, and the thing dissapears. I mean it looks like he had just run into a wall for crying out loud.

Are you talking about a 3/4 rear view? :huh: As far as I can tell from still life (just looking at Toby now for example) that's the way it should be....

Anyways I got done with the Etc. revamp...now there's just one page left, the subscriber one. I checked out several webcomic sites and it seems subscriptions aren't common. Premiums seem to be limited to wallpapers and access to other material. If anyone wants to highlight any other sites with any other kinds of things (besides cafepress type stores) please let me know. I now have over a month to figure this out. :hehe:

Leonhard

October 27th 2006, 06:49 PM

Are you talking about a 3/4 rear view? :huh: As far as I can tell from still life (just looking at Toby now for example) that's the way it should be....

Well... maybe you're right, his nose just looks like it would block the view of his mouth turned at that angle.

Anyways I got done with the Etc. revamp...now there's just one page left, the subscriber one. I checked out several webcomic sites and it seems subscriptions aren't common. Premiums seem to be limited to wallpapers and access to other material. If anyone wants to highlight any other sites with any other kinds of things (besides cafepress type stores) please let me know. I now have over a month to figure this out. :hehe:

I have so far not seen a single webcomic that has part of the comic availlable to the readers, and then have a few parts that are only availlable through subscribtion. Mostly its either backgrounds or monthly bonus pics.

Has it already been a year in a month?

Teallaura

October 27th 2006, 08:07 PM

Actually, my question is where is Brett's leg on the last panel of 20? It looks like it's gone below the knee.

Otherwise :thumb:

Darth Executor

October 27th 2006, 08:18 PM

Actually, my question is where is Brett's leg on the last panel of 20? It looks like it's gone below the knee.

He got it amputated.

jpholding

October 28th 2006, 07:02 AM

Well... maybe you're right, his nose just looks like it would block the view of his mouth turned at that angle.

The 3/4 rear view is one of the hardest to get right. And even if you follow life it often doesn't quite look "normal". It may be because we normally don't look at people that way.

I have so far not seen a single webcomic that has part of the comic availlable to the readers, and then have a few parts that are only availlable through subscribtion. Mostly its either backgrounds or monthly bonus pics.

I'll look some more today.

Has it already been a year in a month?

I launched tektoonics as a site 11/30/05. RP #1 was on Tekton before that but I won't count that.

Actually, my question is where is Brett's leg on the last panel of 20? It looks like it's gone below the knee.

:ahem: :hehe:

jpholding

October 28th 2006, 01:12 PM

Aww poor Beamer :bawl: Its every technical geeks worst nightmare to lose their spark...

Nice job though on page 23 you really get their emotions expessed well, especially third and fourth panel. Their worried expressions were really convincing. The only bad thing I have to say is about the fith panel, where is his nose?!! This isn't the first time this happens, I know its part of your style, but he had barely turned his head, and the thing dissapears. I mean it looks like he had just run into a wall for crying out loud.

You were talking about BRETT'S nose. I thought you meant Beamer's because you named him and no one else in your message. :doh:

I'd regard that as something of a 15/16ths frontal view but what the heck. We'll tune it up someday. :hehe:

jpholding

October 28th 2006, 02:50 PM

Leonhard

October 28th 2006, 06:33 PM

Revamp work is essentially done other than setting up subscription settings via Paypal. One month early thanks to the sabbatical.

I may do a 2 1/2 page update before Tuesday. A little bit of angst/comic relief, and then the date starts! :thumb:

Can't wait to see how it all turns out.

You were talking about BRETT'S nose. I thought you meant Beamer's because you named him and no one else in your message.

Sorry mr. H about the confusion, I'll try and keep that in mind next time.

I'd regard that as something of a 15/16ths frontal view but what the heck. We'll tune it up someday.

Its just a weirds occurance and it sorta jumps out, it doesn't happen too othen, I only counted it about ten times in rangtoon1. I just sorta makes it look like their nose (or snout :huh:) disappears, or gets flattened.

jpholding

October 30th 2006, 05:47 PM

Because of my schedule otherwise I'm going to go for a Wed. update which includes the start of "the date". :teeth:

So, Teal, what should Sheila wear?

Darth Executor

October 30th 2006, 06:03 PM

Any chance you can draw a Halloween picture of one of the teams?

jpholding

October 30th 2006, 07:26 PM

Any chance you can draw a Halloween picture of one of the teams?

Oh, sure. Whatcha got in mind? Eidolon dressed as....

Um, how do you tell if HE'S in costume or not? :huh:

OK, here's the deal --- anyone wants to suggest costumes for members of either team, post 'em here and I'll set the deadline at 4PM tomorrow, which will give me time to scan and color it. I'll do whichever team gets the most recommends.

Darth Executor

October 30th 2006, 07:47 PM

Ok, I'll pick Brom's team.

Eidolon - Grim Reaper
Brom - Something with a jack'o lantern head since he's part plant. :teeth:
Tyk Jyn-Rayana - Witch
Sonica - Zombie
Molinist - Dracula

Darth Executor

October 30th 2006, 07:48 PM

Oh, sure. Whatcha got in mind? Eidolon dressed as....

Um, how do you tell if HE'S in costume or not? :huh:

Umm, just change his normal clothes to a robe, make both the clothes and the hood black and put a scythe in one of his hands.

Tophet

October 31st 2006, 01:36 AM

OK, here's the deal --- anyone wants to suggest costumes for members of either team, post 'em here and I'll set the deadline at 4PM tomorrow, which will give me time to scan and color it. I'll do whichever team gets the most recommends.

Brom as Son Goku.
Sheila as Xena, Warrior Princess.

Teallaura

October 31st 2006, 09:22 AM

Because of my schedule otherwise I'm going to go for a Wed. update which includes the start of "the date". :teeth:

So, Teal, what should Sheila wear?

Well, depends on where they are going. Obviously, if formal she needs a full length formal. Definitely with sleeves. If less formal but still fancy, a tea length dress or blouse/skirt combo would look nice. Casual should probably be dress blouse and slacks.

Colors: Probably the cooler hues - blues, greens, pastels. I think a nice turquoise or lavender would set off her eyes nicely.

Hair: formal or semi-formal - up, ears up. Casual - down, ears up. From what little you've said, I doubt the ears tied back thing is consistent with formal and it would look better for a casual setting (on a date). No braid - nothing that looks like 'work'.

Jewelry: Formal - imperative, crystal probably best (no tiara - it's not her debutant ball). Casual - nice necklace & bracelet at a minimum.

Perfume: yes.

Accessories - to match dress style.

There ya go!

(Didn't think I'd do it, did ya? :teeth:)

Halloween:
Brett: snow cone
Annabelle: torch
Beamer: Robot
B'imf: a very embarrassed dog
Sheila: a mechanic

TuckEverlasting

October 31st 2006, 09:26 AM

Perfume: yes.

Pefume: No.

Honestly, where do women get this idea that men like perfume? We don't. It's disgusting. It conveys to us that you view yourself as an old lady. Never, ever wear it.

[attachment=1]

Teallaura

October 31st 2006, 09:46 AM

Yes - it's part of the dress code. We didn't make the rules...

jpholding

October 31st 2006, 10:11 AM

Well, depends on where they are going.

Hm, the Blue Fondue hits the scale on the casual-formal level. Similar to a place I know here called Pebbles.

I've actually hit pretty close to your idea in some spots, not so in others. Keeping in mind one other surprise factor. :wink: We'll use the lavender or turquoise since the color isn't done yet for that page. Will be today. :thumb:

Perfume: yes.

I guess I'll have to add "scratch and sniff" features. :hehe:

(Didn't think I'd do it, did ya? :teeth:)

Oh, I *knew* you would. :hehe:

Just ignore Tuck...he's still upset because Sheila didn't appreciate the entertainment he provided on THEIR date....

[attachment=1]

(But to be fair...I don't go for perfume either, thanks to my allergies...and Mrs. H isn't into it herself.) :smile:

Darth Executor

October 31st 2006, 10:47 AM

Pefume: No.

Honestly, where do women get this idea that men like perfume? We don't. It's disgusting. It conveys to us that you view yourself as an old lady. Never, ever wear it.

Who's "we"? I love perfume.

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=79058&highlight=perfume

Teallaura

October 31st 2006, 11:12 AM

Hm, the Blue Fondue hits the scale on the casual-formal level. Similar to a place I know here called Pebbles.

I've actually hit pretty close to your idea in some spots, not so in others. Keeping in mind one other surprise factor. :wink:
:cool: Coolness

We'll use the lavender or turquoise since the color isn't done yet for that page. Will be today. :thumb:
:smile: Glad to be of service.

I guess I'll have to add "scratch and sniff" features. :hehe:
A 'gee, you smell nice' would be sufficient. Not actually necessary (that it be indicated) but you wanted to know and I like to be thorough. :teeth:

Oh, I *knew* you would. :hehe:

Just ignore Tuck...he's still upset because Sheila didn't appreciate the entertainment he provided on THEIR date....

[attachment=1]
Well, to be fair as well, Sheila having said yes wasn't one of her brightest moments, either. Live and learn. :sigh:

(But to be fair...I don't go for perfume either, thanks to my allergies...and Mrs. H isn't into it herself.) :smile:
:shrug: Yeah, there are exceptions to every rule - but most women would feel only partially dressed without it - at least on a date. There's always the alternative of toilet water (no, not from the toilet, you Neanderthals! :brood:) which is much lighter than perfume.

jpholding

October 31st 2006, 06:14 PM

OK, here's one. I used Tophet's idea for Brom and Darth's idea for the rest of the crew.

I'll go back for Teal's RP crew idea and the Sheila = Xena idea later this week.

[attachment=1]

Now let's see if I can finish the latest RP #5 installment before I close down shop for the evening....

jpholding

October 31st 2006, 07:12 PM

Yep. I sure can.

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5024.html

Now see what you miss by not behaving yourself properly, Tuck? :no:

TuckEverlasting

October 31st 2006, 07:18 PM

Now see what you miss by not behaving yourself properly, Tuck? :no:

Um, no, frankly, but I haven't looked all that hard. :hrm: Besides, I figure I'll just wait 'till they come out with www.hearthstonebridesbymailorder.com. :smile:

And pre-menopausal women don't wear perfume. :no:

jpholding

October 31st 2006, 07:34 PM

I'd better buy that domain before he gets ideas....

jpholding

November 1st 2006, 05:58 PM

TuckEverlasting

November 1st 2006, 06:08 PM

Here's the Range Patrol in their Halloween costumes. I couldn't visualize the bit about snow cones and torches so I just had the Ketterlings switch powers.

[attachment=1]

Teal must not be too unhappy with Sheila's outfit...I haven't had any fashion bombs sent to my house. :hehe:
Um... what are they supposed to be? It would have been totally awesome if you had actually dressed them as real-world things, like Homestarruner does. :yes:

jpholding

November 1st 2006, 06:21 PM

Um... what are they supposed to be? It would have been totally awesome if you had actually dressed them as real-world things, like Homestarruner does. :yes:

:glare:

You haven't been paying attention. This is why your dates leave for the powder room and don't come back. That and the type of sandwiches you order, and the fact that you diss perfume, and --- well, never mind.

Sheila = Xena (or Dee Dee) -- Tophet's request
Beamer = robot and Bimf = a dog -- Teal's request
Ketterlings = each other -- my own idea, more or less

Teallaura

November 1st 2006, 10:12 PM

:lol:

dizzle

November 5th 2006, 09:19 PM

Sheila is way cool

jpholding

November 6th 2006, 10:24 AM

I'm aiming for the next update to be Wednesday along with the October Screwball feature. On the latter I will categorize the material this morning and do the accompanying toons tonight.

After that there will be four more installments and RP #5 is done. I want it all done by 11/20 if possible. Then I want to make final prep for the 11/30 revamp which I want to offer with the first installment of ST #5, which is titled Intersection of Destinies, Part 1. RP #6 will be Part 2.

The rest of the month is looking hectic. Friends are visiting this week and of course we have holidays and travel. But I'm determined to get it all done and see if Hearthstone can find appeal with a larger audience. The fact that even on these threads we have such a broad and varied demongraphic is encouraging for that.

In the meantime, in preparation for the crossover story, I'd be interested in thoughts on how the members of the two teams will react to each other. This as usual is something of a focus group exercise in which I don't expect necessarily accurate predictions but do want to test perceptions.

No points for guessing that Eidolon will lose it when he sees Annabelle for the first time. :wink: And that won't happen until the end of ST #5 where it'll make for a whopper of a conclusion to Part 1.

Teallaura

November 6th 2006, 12:00 PM

Man, I hope Beamer is a sports fan - he'll drive Brom bonkers!

Alien

November 6th 2006, 01:11 PM

The fact that even on these threads we have such a broad and varied demongraphic is encouraging for that.

Hearthstone is read in hell? Now that's what I call outreach!

:lol:

jpholding

November 6th 2006, 01:13 PM

Hearthstone is read in hell? Now that's what I call outreach!

:lol:

It's required reading. EVERYWHERE. :hehe:

But in hell, we leave out the parts where the plot mysteries are resolved!

Darth Executor

November 6th 2006, 05:24 PM

It's required reading. EVERYWHERE. :hehe:

But in hell, we leave out the parts where the plot mysteries are resolved!

Do they read yours before or after the Chick Tracts?

Leonhard

November 6th 2006, 06:03 PM

In the meantime, in preparation for the crossover story, I'd be interested in thoughts on how the members of the two teams will react to each other. This as usual is something of a focus group exercise in which I don't expect necessarily accurate predictions but do want to test perceptions.

Hmmm... depends on how much they know about eachother.

Beamer and Bimf of course already know about Shriker and will therefore be glad to see him again. The Ketterlings have probably seen him on tv, they might not have seen him performing on the telly, but as famous as he seems to be, it would be hard for them to miss him completely. I'll keep my mouth shut about Sheila :ahem:

Man, I hope Beamer is a sports fan - he'll drive Brom bonkers!

Actually it wouldn't surprise me if Beamer was into a whole range of sports. Though he is obviously the stereotypical image of a technical wiz, he is also very flexible and acrobatically inclined as a tilkrieg. Tilkrieg have to learn all the moves and acrobatics they can perform from somewhere and I would expect that they put their abillities to use when they played as children. It would therefore be likely, that they'll associate sports in the range of gymnastics and acrobatics, with fond memories and will therefore be likely to enjoy watching them as well.

So I can easily imagine Beamer going 'Wow Brom Shriker! Saw you on the grand tournament at Peyferon stadium. You can really hurl a hammer!!' I don't know what kind of sports that Shriker performs, it seems to be mostly endourance and strength based from the looks of it. We have only seen him in one competition involving weight lifting.

It's required reading. EVERYWHERE. :hehe:

But in hell, we leave out the parts where the plot mysteries are resolved!

Hehehe... and he only delivers one panel pr. week down there :hehe:

jpholding

November 8th 2006, 02:23 PM

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5028.html

About 6 more pages up. Start halfway down. This was a fun installment to do.

Couple of other fun notes...

http://joeljohnson.com/images2/wallywood22panel1600.jpg

Check this out. It's something my expert consult recommended as a resource. I'll be using it to keep Hearthstone more visually interesting. Wally Wood is a major name cartoonist though not one whose work I have followed.

I'm going to try to work in two more sections to the toon site before the 11/30 revamp. One will be called Hearthstone Unplugged and will feature things like the Hearthstone TV Guide, Eidolon orders a fish sandwich at the drive thru, etc. and Sphen PMed me with an idea I'll work up something for shortly. I'll also try to add a section called Toa's Gallery for stuff by my little bro.

Next round we'll get to Sheila and Beamer on their date. Tuck, watch carefully and you may learn something about how to treat your dates. :rasberry:

November 8th 2006, 02:53 PM

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5028.html

About 6 more pages up. Start halfway down. This was a fun installment to do.

:hehe: And to read. Excellent job on this installment, JP. That Sk'lan sure is a romantic, ain't he?

Question: precisely what language are Brett and Annabelle speaking? It looks somewhat like Almanorian does when Eidolon recites his incantations, but I thought that Eidolon was the only one who still remembers how to speak it.

jpholding

November 8th 2006, 03:27 PM

Why thank you! :smile:

Question: precisely what language are Brett and Annabelle speaking? It looks somewhat like Almanorian does when Eidolon recites his incantations, but I thought that Eidolon was the only one who still remembers how to speak it.

The native language of the Allethenes. Annabelle used it a bit in RP #1 when she first woke up from getting 'ranged.

Naturally, don't even try to create a dictionary based on any of this...it's all phoneticized for our reading convenience. :hehe: So it'll look just like Almanorian and every other tongue which I don't either translate or turn into Wingdings or what have you. I did want a phonetic version here to indicate that it was poetic song.

November 8th 2006, 03:34 PM

Why thank you! :smile:

You're very welcome. :yes:

The native language of the Allethenes. Annabelle used it a bit in RP #1 when she first woke up from getting 'ranged.

Ohhhh yeahhh... I remember that now.

Naturally, don't even try to create a dictionary based on any of this...

Ack, ya pre-empted me! :tongue: Woulda been a nice companion to The Nitpicker's Guide to Hearthstone. :hehe:

it's all phoneticized for our reading convenience. :hehe: So it'll look just like Almanorian and every other tongue which I don't either translate or turn into Wingdings or what have you. I did want a phonetic version here to indicate that it was poetic song.

Out of curiosity, how many Hearthstonian languages do you envision there being? Are most main characters multilingual?

Teallaura

November 8th 2006, 03:37 PM

Question: If Annabelle and Brett need each other to neutralize one another's powers, how is it that Annabelle is in her powered form and Brett is not? She throw an earlier tantrum or something? :huh:

Little Shepherd

November 8th 2006, 03:58 PM

Am I the only one who gets the impression of a big "little kid" when I see the genetically altered Sk'lan prisoner? The way he talks, the way things he says don't make sense given what he's been exposed to . . . he seems stunted somehow. Depending on why exactly he's that way, perhaps he's even redeemable?

Christy

November 8th 2006, 04:11 PM

I haven't said anything on this before, but when I read what Brett says, I always hear him talking in an English accent :blush: .

jpholding

November 8th 2006, 04:35 PM

Huzzah,

Out of curiosity, how many Hearthstonian languages do you envision there being? Are most main characters multilingual?

I would say that each race has an ancestral tongue, and that there is also a lingua franca for certain major geographical areas, as well as the lingua franca for Hearthstone as a whole. In the revamp of the social science page I'll be adding a point about how their diversity, plus the need to cope with that long-ago disaster to surivive, encouraged them to be more willing to cooperate with one another.

If Annabelle and Brett need each other to neutralize one another's powers, how is it that Annabelle is in her powered form and Brett is not? She throw an earlier tantrum or something?

The way I have it set up in RP #1 (have to check on how specific I was), the thermal and cryonic states are what they will naturally return to, given time and being enough apart from one another. Tantrums (or in Brett's case, laughter/joy) just allow for a quicker recharge.

And I think I also allowed for them to be able to manifest the power at will -- turn the switch on, so to speak, as long as some energy was available. I'll have to check.

Am I the only one who gets the impression of a big "little kid" when I see the genetically altered Sk'lan prisoner? The way he talks, the way things he says don't make sense given what he's been exposed to . . . he seems stunted somehow. Depending on why exactly he's that way, perhaps he's even redeemable?

Without revealing too much -- I do indeed see the Sk'lan as somewhat childlike in their ways. In the revamp their description will say that they were reckoned at one time to be a very simple and happy people, so that the shift that the tyranny of the Cartel represents is something of a mystery to others. By the end of the Cartel cycle we'll find out some more about them and what happened to twist them into what they are now. But you can see even in RP #4 that they treat others in a way that is (in a very bad way) childish. The same will be seen in a flashback to Beamer's past shortly. They have short fuses, and treat others with disdain readily, as toys, one might say, for their own pleasure and use.

I haven't said anything on this before, but when I read what Brett says, I always hear him talking in an English accent

Me too. :wink:

Teallaura

November 8th 2006, 05:28 PM

...
The way I have it set up in RP #1 (have to check on how specific I was), the thermal and cryonic states are what they will naturally return to, given time and being enough apart from one another. Tantrums (or in Brett's case, laughter/joy) just allow for a quicker recharge.

And I think I also allowed for them to be able to manifest the power at will -- turn the switch on, so to speak, as long as some energy was available. I'll have to check.

...I got that - so if I understood correctly, they must have equalized one another earlier, then for whatever reason (and yes, you did give them the 'at will' ability) Annabelle decided to revert to her powered state.

So, Brett can neutralize her power even when not in his thermal state, too? (as in the last scene). Hmmm.....

jpholding

November 8th 2006, 05:38 PM

I got that - so if I understood correctly, they must have equalized one another earlier, then for whatever reason (and yes, you did give them the 'at will' ability) Annabelle decided to revert to her powered state.

Right. In this case, because she had to be on duty guarding the prisoner.

So, Brett can neutralize her power even when not in his thermal state, too? (as in the last scene). Hmmm.....

Yes indeed. Perhaps an add on to RP #1 at some point could work up some "rules" for for how their powers work, but I'd rather not commit just yet. :hehe:

Arguably they are never actually NOT in their thermal/cryonic states -- just better able to control their manifestations of it when it is at lower levels. Note that they were both able to feel the energies recharging even immediately after a full purge (RP #1, #3). The most I could say now is that, say, at a charge level of a certain percent is when they're in clear power-up mode with the changed appearance. And of course as shown a few times, including in this story, they can produce manifestations of the energies even in "normal" appearance mode (as when Brett threw the fireball). One can also imagine that they've been training themselves in controlling the energies as much as possible.

I can imagine some comic scenarios that would derive of one of them having to take a trip out of town. :hehe: Phone conversation: "Sweetheart, I really do miss you and hope I see you soon. I keep burning/freezing things."

See ya'll tomorrow. This group is an awesome bunch. :thumb:

Frogwarrior

November 9th 2006, 01:09 AM

Hmmm... From what I've heard, this installment is a perfect example of a way in which Annabelle is patterned after your wife...
As Farrell Till would know... :hehe:

I loved it though. Humorous. And yet, I'm guessing the Sk'lan isn't just idly cussin' them out, but that the Sk'lan are planning something.

So I was thinking about polarium. From what I can remember (its use in maglev trains, for example), I thought it possible that it might actually be a superconductor. This was sparked after a physics lecture in which a superconductor was used to levitate a magnet.
One of the more cool properties of superconductors is that, when it is in a magnetic field, it immediately sets up a magnetic field of its own exactly opposite the field its in. An important effect of this is that it will be repelled by ALL magnetic objects.
So, if you had tracks that generated a strong magnetic field, and then coated yer train on the underside with a large amount of this superconductor, you could get it to levitate.
The thing is, in OUR world, we have yet to discover superconductors that actually are superconductors without cooling by liquid nitrogen (or helium, for some...). However, there is speculation that high-temperature superconductors are possible. It is my theory, based on what I can remember about polarium, that it is in fact one of these high-temperature superconductors.

Ha! Just see what happens when you create a world. Some 18-year-old kid starts trying to make it seem realistic. :hehe:

jpholding

November 9th 2006, 07:45 AM

some...). However, there is speculation that high-temperature superconductors are possible. It is my theory, based on what I can remember about polarium, that it is in fact one of these high-temperature superconductors.

Ha! Just see what happens when you create a world. Some 18-year-old kid starts trying to make it seem realistic. :hehe:

Laugh though you do, Leonhard's discussed related ideas with me. :wink: It seems a little paradoxical to try to make a fantasy world as realistic as possible, yet (as I noted to someone else with similar interests yesterday) I think it is important to have as much realism as I can. As they said on reply, if you have to constantly suspend disbelief, you won't enjoy the story as much.

Teallaura

November 9th 2006, 08:55 AM

Inserting realism lets the concrete rationals play. :teeth:

Frogwarrior

November 9th 2006, 03:01 PM

Laugh though you do, Leonhard's discussed related ideas with me. :wink: It seems a little paradoxical to try to make a fantasy world as realistic as possible, yet (as I noted to someone else with similar interests yesterday) I think it is important to have as much realism as I can. As they said on reply, if you have to constantly suspend disbelief, you won't enjoy the story as much.
Hey, I laugh because it's awesome. :teeth:
I mean, it's not every day I run into a fantasy setting that I can engage with intellectually as well as enjoying the story + worldview.

And when a physics lecture makes me think of Hearthstone... I dunno. Maybe I'm just becoming a fanboy.

(Brom Shriker is my hero!) :teeth:

Leonhard

November 10th 2006, 09:03 AM

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/ran...ngtoon5028.html

About 6 more pages up. Start halfway down. This was a fun installment to do.

Your art certainly keeps on improving and this one was pretty funny too :lol:

It would have been cool if you had added some frost to the chair seeing as she had been sitting in it for a while, but anyway... Annabelle sure has such a good set of lungs, I wonder whether she has an icebreath attack :hehe:

I'm going to try to work in two more sections to the toon site before the 11/30 revamp. One will be called Hearthstone Unplugged and will feature things like the Hearthstone TV Guide, Eidolon orders a fish sandwich at the drive thru, etc. and Sphen PMed me with an idea I'll work up something for shortly. I'll also try to add a section called Toa's Gallery for stuff by my little bro.

Can't wait to see it and with a price tag of five bucks pr year its something I can afford.

I thought it possible that it might actually be a superconductor. This was sparked after a physics lecture in which a superconductor was used to levitate a magnet... One of the more cool properties of superconductors is that, when it is in a magnetic field, it immediately sets up a magnetic field of its own exactly opposite the field its in.

I really hope they don't have room temperature superconductors. The reason for that, is that it would make the steam jet propulsion system completely superfluous since the electromagnetic propulsion system would be far more efficient. They merely had to have a superconducting coil in the undercarriage at right angles with the planets magnetic field and pump it up with currents. Then the two magnetic fields would push the car forward with great efficiency. Expelling super hot steam out through nozzles is extremely inefficient. Even with steam temperatures in the range of >2000K the bikes would still consume about half a ton of fuel and water during a four hour run.

Hey, I laugh because it's awesome. :teeth:
I mean, it's not every day I run into a fantasy setting that I can engage with intellectually as well as enjoying the story + worldview.

Heh, even trekkies try to make that universe sound as likely as possible. :hehe:

And when a physics lecture makes me think of Hearthstone... I dunno. Maybe I'm just becoming a fanboy.

Go on... give in to it...

(Brom Shriker is my hero!) :teeth:

Beamer rules!!!

jpholding

November 11th 2006, 09:09 AM

Your art certainly keeps on improving and this one was pretty funny too :lol:

Thank you. :bow:

It would have been cool if you had added some frost to the chair seeing as she had been sitting in it for a while, but anyway... Annabelle sure has such a good set of lungs, I wonder whether she has an icebreath attack :hehe:

It might work. :wink:

They merely had to have a superconducting coil in the undercarriage at right angles with the planets magnetic field and pump it up with currents.

I expect they'll think of that before too long. :wink: With the steam I think a friend of mine visiting has explained it well. No doubt steam early on was designated the main means of propulsion, and we have manufacturers of steam engine parts who aren't too keen on some totally magnetic propulsion system taking over things. But once it is discovered how the Cartel is using the magnetic field to launch missiles, that might start a change going.

Looks like another short update Monday.

Frogwarrior

November 11th 2006, 09:09 PM

Another thing is, in order to have a superconducting coil, you have to, you know, get a superconductor in the shape of a coil of wire.
Most of the earliest superconductors, the ones that had to be cooled with liquid helium, were metals. We know how to make metal wires.
The later ones, the ones that only ("only") need liquid nitrogen, are ceramics. Ceramics are a LOT harder to make into solenoids.
And who knows what form polarium is? It seems reasonable that it might be pretty simple to have a superconducting "chunk," but a lot harder to make a coil out of it. Lord know it's hard enough with ceramics.

I think we need a word for this kind of fanboyism. How about "Hearthies?" :wink:

It also just occured to me that using the magnetic field to launch missiles would doubtlessly make for MUCH longer ranged missiles. And if only the Cartel has yet figured out how to do that...

Teallaura

November 11th 2006, 09:44 PM

The coil problem occurs because a bunch of physics geeks are too headstrong to just hire a real potter to do the job right.

:teeth:

Frogwarrior

November 11th 2006, 10:06 PM

How many "real potters" can get ceramics to form a wire coil with many turns per centimeter? How many do YOU know? Huh? :teeth:

Abykale

November 12th 2006, 02:21 AM

Laugh though you do, Leonhard's discussed related ideas with me. :wink: It seems a little paradoxical to try to make a fantasy world as realistic as possible, yet (as I noted to someone else with similar interests yesterday) I think it is important to have as much realism as I can. As they said on reply, if you have to constantly suspend disbelief, you won't enjoy the story as much.

Besides, you put so much work into realism when designing the social aspects of Hearthstone, it just seems a shame not to do so in other areas.

Abykale

November 12th 2006, 03:28 AM

I'd be interested in links to the best three in your view. You can post them here or PM me.
I make no judgment as to which are best, but my favorite webcomics (other than Hearthstone) are:
Earthsong (http://earthsongsaga.com/index.html)
Gunnerkrigg Court (http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/index2.php)
Faux Pas (http://www.ozfoxes.com/fauxpas.htm)
If you really want to drive your readers nuts, you could do like the author of Earthsong: slowly redraw and repost all the early chapters, making major plot changes as you do so and refusing to tell us any of them in advance. And she stopped in the middle of a chapter of new stuff, so we get a cliffhanger lasting for several months! :argh:

(I did see your request back when it was posted, I just put it off for later because I was trying not to get distracted from my last-minute studying for a test . . . followed by another test . . . followed by several more. I'm still behind in my studies. :uneasy:)

Teallaura

November 12th 2006, 07:04 AM

How many "real potters" can get ceramics to form a wire coil with many turns per centimeter? How many do YOU know? Huh? :teeth:Physics geek! :rasberry:

Frogwarrior

November 12th 2006, 09:01 PM

Physics geek! :rasberry:
Uh-huh! :thumb:

Teallaura

November 12th 2006, 09:26 PM

Hmmm, why couldn't you core and slice the thing like an apple (rotary slice, obviously)? You could make that pretty danged fine. Need thin paper to separate the layers for firing, though.

Frogwarrior

November 13th 2006, 02:26 AM

Maybe... 'Course, unlike an apple, it might be harder to do with ceramics... and I don't know about whatever polarium is...
And we'd hope to be able to at least match normal wires for the strength of the field produced, which depends on turns per meter... which is a LOT easier to do just by winding a wire around and around and around... to say nothing of the fact that metals are more flexible and tractable than ceramics.
So... I am not saying it's impossible. Just a LOT harder than normal electromagnets. Thus it might take a while to figure out how to do it. It would not surprise me if most civilisations on Hearthstone haven't done it yet (for reasons like, say, "don't fix it if it ain't broke," "it isn't worth the cost of research," etc), whereas the Cartel is making advancements because they want better weapons technology, hang the cost.

Teallaura

November 13th 2006, 07:49 AM

:huh: In the manufacturing ceramics are just clay - you can do pretty much anything with them at that point. Snaking a coil would be extremely difficult, even by extrusion. But cutting a coil wouldn't be (other than separating the layers prior to firing, but that's not insurmountable). In use the problem would be their fragility. Neither here nor there, really - just speculating out loud.

Here's a thought: what if polarium formed a linear molecular structure that only loosely bonded to the 'lines' next to them (somewhat similar to how some plastics form). The bonds formed by the stronger connections could carry current and the weaker ones not (this would be where the chemistry geeks would have to take over as I'm not sure what materials might plausibly be used) - effectively making the line a wire. As it formed it would lay itself down in tracks - kinda like a vinyl record. A little tricky manufacturing and you get a tube made up of an extremely tight (molecular level) coil.

Unless I'm much mistaken that would also give you the malleability you were looking for. Basically, polarium would then be a plastic with the carrying capacity of a metal. Stable at room temps and coiled inhumanly tight, seems like that would work for what polarium is supposed to do.

:shrug: Don't laugh too hard - I's not good ats chemitree... :sad:

jpholding

November 13th 2006, 12:31 PM

Hallooo....

Got a lot of inking done this weeked, something like 15 pages. :yipee: This may end up being the most pages I've inked for one story. And it feels GOOD!! :woohoo:

It'll be tight getting it all done, plus the revamp, plus a bit of ST #5, before Nov. 30, but I'll do my best.

And who knows what form polarium is? It seems reasonable that it might be pretty simple to have a superconducting "chunk," but a lot harder to make a coil out of it.

I won't get into the tech required to make it...I need to keep that flexible for now.

I think we need a word for this kind of fanboyism. How about "Hearthies?" :wink:

Or, "Hearththrobs"? :lol:

It also just occured to me that using the magnetic field to launch missiles would doubtlessly make for MUCH longer ranged missiles. And if only the Cartel has yet figured out how to do that...

They have of course launched one from the Northwest to Nullabor (RP #2) and given the geography they can certain reach the Prycenes even now.

I'm interested in this because one of the things that will emerge as the Cartel cycle wraps up is that polarium needs to be able to be made in a *primitive* setting -- even if it takes a lot of work and a lot of time. In fact, the more time and work the better. No more to say than that. :wink:

Besides, you put so much work into realism when designing the social aspects of Hearthstone, it just seems a shame not to do so in other areas.

Interesting, I've never thought of it that way!

If you really want to drive your readers nuts, you could do like the author of Earthsong: slowly redraw and repost all the early chapters, making major plot changes as you do so and refusing to tell us any of them in advance.

Uh uh. No no no no no! :no: I'll always note new insertions and it'll never mean a full plot change. I will change minor elements like the reason for Tilkrig biological incompatibility if a better idea comes along (as Teal's did) but the overall narrative structure is sacred.

I gave an example earlier of something my consult suggested -- adding a prayer before the assault on the Cartel depot (RP #1) in which Beamer of course does not participate. This scene is something I keep turning over and adding exotic elements to. I can see Bimf and Sheila kneeling in the sand, reciting lines to the prayer (or as they will call it, the Supplication) in turn while they sketch symbols in the sand that illustrate the prayer. (They're not "graven images" -- sorry, Dan Barker! :hehe:) I can then see Annabelle joining them (to their surprise, since they didn't know she was also of the Covenant yet) to say the concluding lines and make the last sketch. It seems to be a good and touching way for them to first come to realize that they're part of the same faith.

Thank you for the list! I've seen Earthsong and Faux Pas before, too.

test . . . followed by another test . . . followed by several more. I'm still behind in my studies.

Ain't that just a drag? :hehe:

jpholding

November 13th 2006, 08:34 PM

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5035.html

Three more pages. :thumb: Good night.

Alien

November 13th 2006, 11:16 PM

Mmmmmm, fondue!

I must find a place that serves it round here.

November 14th 2006, 04:53 PM

Or, "Hearththrobs"? :lol:

Were it not for the gift of three new pages, you oughta be smacked for that one. :rasberry:

Anyway, the new pages are great. We see a bit more insight into Beamer's thought process, and I'm looking forward greatly to hearing more about his life under the Sk'lan.

Keep up the good work, JP. :thumb:

jpholding

November 17th 2006, 01:16 PM

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5038.html

Four new pages. The sensitive are warned to have a hanky handy. :bawl:

Just 3 scenes to go after this.

Teallaura

November 17th 2006, 02:02 PM

:sad: Poor Beamer...

November 17th 2006, 03:09 PM

The poor guy... :frown:

RumTumTugger

November 17th 2006, 05:11 PM

:sad: you certainly know how to tell a good story. Poor beamer

Leonhard

November 17th 2006, 05:21 PM

:bawl: Poor Beamer and Meliash too!!!

Definitely one of the more grittier scenes in Hearthstone, I like how you pulled it off while keeping its rating low, even the most sensitive person shouldn't be turned off by this. Good job on G'nai his black eyes made him appear really cold, only using Beamer as his tool.

Are there any S'klan which aren't evil? Or have they all perished?

jpholding

November 17th 2006, 05:25 PM

Some credit here to my expert consult who's been helping me with the storytelling aspects, notably angles and presentation. I'd lost a lot of the sense of that over the years. I'll want to go back over the older stuff (RP and ST 1-3) at some point and improve on that where needed.

Mrs H is looking to work some OT tomorrow so it's possible I'll have another 4-page update as early as Monday.

Chin up, guys. Beamer's going to find his ultimate happiness with Jelica in RP #7. :thumb:

Edited to add:

Definitely one of the more grittier scenes in Hearthstone, I like how you pulled it off while keeping its rating low, even the most sensitive person shouldn't be turned off by this

My thanks! :yipee:

That leads to a question I'd like feedback on. There's a toon site out there that offers graphics for ratings (following the movie model) and it seems to be popular. I'm guessing Hearthstone rates a PG-13. Does anyone have any feedback to suggest otherwise?

Are there any S'klan which aren't evil? Or have they all perished?

That one I'll hold off on answering fully. You can certainly assume that there are some good ones (eg Molinist, who was a persecuted Covenant member who was used for experiments) but to what extent they exist...I'll leave in the air for now, because indeed not even Beamer knows the whole truth.

Leonhard

November 17th 2006, 05:32 PM

Little Shepherd

November 17th 2006, 06:01 PM

I'm guessing Hearthstone rates a PG-13. Does anyone have any feedback to suggest otherwise?
Nah. By today's ratings standards, it's definitely PG. I haven't seen anything that would bump it up any higher than that. Anything that might is kept conveniently off-screen. There's not even cursing, and no, Tas Phalan doesn't count. :tongue:

jpholding

November 17th 2006, 06:02 PM

I noted that you kept changing the angles, instead of picking one and sticking to it. It made it a lot more interesting.

My consult notes that there are certain times when it is okay to stick with the same scene. The one in the restaurant with Sheila trying to coax Beamer into the right answer is an example; so likewise the Ketterlings talking about the name issue. I think it is when a linked dialogue is at the fore that this can be done; and when things like facial expression can add variety.

Thats what I'm waiting for :teeth: You noted somewhere that Jelica would come into play sometime during this RP #5 or was that #6?

ST #5 -- Eidolon and Beamer will meet for the first time and to reward Beamer for his service to Sheila as She of Infinite Heart, he will deliver a prophecy of Jelica's coming. This will actually work out as part of the evidence that leads to Beamer becoming a Covenant member. Yep. Evidence! Here's a rough of the prophecy, since this is no big secret:

Worker of Wonders,
A maiden shall come whose skin is ice
and whose heart is afire for you.
It is she who will aid you
in solving the mystery that baffles you.

Naturally Beamer will scoff and say, "sorry, we have a girl here with a skin of ice and she's already spoken for." :hehe:

I'm signing off now -- my consult recommended I watch a show called Jane and the Dragon for some tips, and it is about to start. :thumb:

Abykale

November 17th 2006, 06:33 PM

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5038.html

Four new pages. The sensitive are warned to have a hanky handy. :bawl:

Just 3 scenes to go after this.
Yay, update! :yipee:

Question: why do the Sk'lan still use funny grammar? Do they and the Tilkrig speak different languages even in the Cartel homeland? Or do they just speak a rather odd dialect? Wouldn't Beamer, having been raised by them, speak the same way?

Observation: Baby Tilkrig are so cute! :smile:

Teallaura

November 17th 2006, 08:45 PM

Actually the dialog thing explains a lot....

...about Yoda... :grin:

Spheniscine

November 18th 2006, 12:11 AM

'Obesiance' seems to be quite a rare word - my unabridged dictionary doesn't have it, and Google only has 618 entries.

Teallaura

November 18th 2006, 08:18 AM

Psst! It's mispelled....

obeisance

One entry found for obeisance.
Main Entry: obei·sance http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif (javascript:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?obeisa02.wav=obeisance')) http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif (javascript:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?obeisa01.wav=obeisance'))
Pronunciation: O-'bE-s&n(t)s, &-, -'bA-
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English obeisaunce obedience, obeisance, from Anglo-French obeisance, from obeissant, present participle of obeir to obey
1 : a movement of the body made in token of respect or submission : BOW (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/bow)
2 : acknowledgment of another's superiority or importance : HOMAGE (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/homage) <makes obeisance to her mentors>
- obei·sant http://www.m-w.com/images/audio.gif (javascript:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?obeisa03.wav=obeisant')) /-s&nt/ adjective
- obei·sant·ly adverb

jpholding

November 18th 2006, 02:43 PM

Oyez all!

Working away at the next section, and taking a bit of time for this...

Question: why do the Sk'lan still use funny grammar?

They're a bunch of stubborn narcissists is why. They think everything they do is simply wonderful. Even the way they punctuate. :hehe:

Wouldn't Beamer, having been raised by them, speak the same way?

An interesting question I didn't consider. I'd have to either say yes and make some alterations, or say no and come up with a viable reason. :huh: The factors that come to mind:

* He would have hung out with other Tilkrig (like his mirror image Darthex) and they would tend to speak about more technical matters. Is the grammar of the science specialist more precise or different than that of the dictator or slavemaster?
* Is he told as a slave not to use Sk'lan linguistic forms, because they think their form of speech is sacred (just like their blood)?

Observation: Baby Tilkrig are so cute! :smile:

Idea for a plush doll? :wink:

Obeisance. Bleah. Thankful for copy and paste. :teeth:

Teallaura

November 18th 2006, 03:40 PM

...
An interesting question I didn't consider. I'd have to either say yes and make some alterations, or say no and come up with a viable reason. :huh: The factors that come to mind:

* He would have hung out with other Tilkrig (like his mirror image Darthex) and they would tend to speak about more technical matters. Is the grammar of the science specialist more precise or different than that of the dictator or slavemaster?
* Is he told as a slave not to use Sk'lan linguistic forms, because they think their form of speech is sacred (just like their blood)?

... Would the S'klan themselves raise Tilkrig babies or would they set up a crech for Tilkrig slaves to handle the diapers, et al? In a crech they would still be indoctrinated into the culture of the household but not necessarily the speech of the S'klan.

The S'klan might further prefer that Tilkrig not speak as they do, but if they are hand raising the babies that would be extremely difficult to accomplish. They strike me as a little too lazy for raising slave babies anyway.

Obeisance. Bleah. Thankful for copy and paste. :teeth:This is why Yahoo beats Google - it asks you what you mean when something seems wrong. I sure as heck didn't realize it was misspelled... I dunt spel soo gud.

jpholding

November 18th 2006, 04:36 PM

Would the S'klan themselves raise Tilkrig babies or would they set up a crech for Tilkrig slaves to handle the diapers, et al?

I have little doubt that it would be the latter. I can't see any Sk'lan being willing to change the diapers of a slave race. :hehe: You're quite right -- too lazy, and holding their subjects in far too much contempt.

On the other hand, "Sk'lan changes Tilkrig diaper" might make for a good comedy interlude. :lol:

I'm about to use the first of that material you wrote for me. :thumb:

Teallaura

November 18th 2006, 04:40 PM

:cool: Cool!

Alien

November 18th 2006, 07:25 PM

Good episode!

On the PG13 thing, I think it could stand a bit more "gore" to emphasize the impact it had on Beamer, and I think you could do that without crossing any lines. How about some blood on the stone the Sk'lan is holding, and maybe a fade out with the battered dead body in the background and Beamer's (shocked) face in the foreground?

An interesting question I didn't consider. I'd have to either say yes and make some alterations, or say no and come up with a viable reason. :huh: The factors that come to mind:

* He would have hung out with other Tilkrig (like his mirror image Darthex) and they would tend to speak about more technical matters. Is the grammar of the science specialist more precise or different than that of the dictator or slavemaster?
* Is he told as a slave not to use Sk'lan linguistic forms, because they think their form of speech is sacred (just like their blood)?

I don't think you want Beamer to talk "Sk'lan" all the time, for obvious reasons. In this situation, I would expect the Tilkrig slaves to speak "Sk'lan" when speaking to their masters and their own dialect between themselves. The Sk'lan would not stoop to "slave speak" when talking to Tilkrig, but would expect the slaves to address them respectfully (that is in their own dialect). That is a problem given what you've written already (the gifted Tilkrig are taken away as infants), but how about this ... the Sk'lan keep a number of "house Tilkrig" in their castles who do menial duties, among which is the raising of the selected infants. They would of course teach the infants the Tilkrig way of speaking, pass on Tilkrig culture and legends and teach the young ones how to relate to their masters, which of course would include manner of speech. You should be able to slide that in without disturbing any established plot lines (like Beamer not remembering his parents).

Edit to add: Just remembered, Meliash was a slave in the kitchen, so you are halfway there already!

Here's another idea that you may already have considered. One day the Sk'lan will have to get their "comeuppance", and that will be a climactic scene indeed. How about if it comes through a "slave rebellion", but one appropriate to the nature of the Tilkrig? Lets say a growing number of the "techno" Tilkrig start plotting against the Sk'lan. They communicate via hidden elements secretly incorporated into their implants. They develop something (lots of possibilities here) that will kill or disable the Sk'lan in large numbers (or totally). We (the audience) don't get told about this initially. Then, the war comes to a point where the Sk'lan seem to be about to win by eliminating the other races with some super weapon. There seems to be no hope for the good guys, who are resigned to dying gallantly. The weapon is triggered and ... all the Sk'lan drop dead, or unconscious, or whatever. The Tilkrig "underground" come forward and (in flashback) tell the story of how they have plotted for decades against their masters and how they secretly incorporated something in the super weapon that would backfire against the Sk'lan. Thus we have the Sk'lan defeated by their despised slaves, poetic justice indeed.

Spheniscine

November 19th 2006, 12:01 AM

However if the Tilkrig crew in the boat Beamer hijacked are any indication, how would they ever muster up the courage to execute such a plan?

Alien

November 19th 2006, 04:03 PM

However if the Tilkrig crew in the boat Beamer hijacked are any indication, how would they ever muster up the courage to execute such a plan?

1) They only have to be a small group, and they would "self select" for courage. I doubt that Beamer is the only one with some degree of courage.

2) No overt action is required. They just have to build additional functionality into some devices, and maybe press a remote control button.

3) The Sk'lan, though not stupid, don't seem to be overly subtle. Direct action is their forte. They would not tend to suspect something like this. In addition their need to feel superior to their slaves would make it difficult for them to believe that the Tilkrig would ever move against them. The risk of detection would be small, and the Tilkrig are clever enough to know that.

jpholding

November 20th 2006, 11:05 AM

I'm probably not going to make my self-imposed deadline of Nov. 30 for starting ST #5, thanks to being invited out of town for the holiday. The goal will now be to simply conclude RP #5 that day. Also, looks like tomorrow will be the next update, not Monday as planned.

Good episode!

On the PG13 thing, I think it could stand a bit more "gore" to emphasize the impact it had on Beamer, and I think you could do that without crossing any lines. How about some blood on the stone the Sk'lan is holding, and maybe a fade out with the battered dead body in the background and Beamer's (shocked) face in the foreground?

Thank you. :smile:

I like the second idea better than the first, though I did like closing with the stern look in G'nai's eyes.

the Sk'lan keep a number of "house Tilkrig" in their castles who do menial duties, among which is the raising of the selected infants. They would of course teach the infants the Tilkrig way of speaking, pass on Tilkrig culture

Yes. This would be an extension of Teal's idea of a creche. I have an idea for a later story where I can get more explicit on this too.

Here's another idea that you may already have considered.

I think you will want to remember your post on this. :wink: You have a mix of spot on predictions in there....I won't say which but we'll all know by the end of the Cartel cycle.

Alien

November 20th 2006, 12:58 PM

I like the second idea better than the first, though I did like closing with the stern look in G'nai's eyes.

You have two ideas to get over, I think. First the brutality and B's reaction to it. Then his realisation that his master is no exception to the general rule. This would be his final disillusion with the Sk'lan, of course. They have no redeeming features (he thinks). I just thought idea #1 could do with a bit more emphasis. No reason not to include both, I guess. I'll leave it to you to decide how to work both in (if you want to). (Hey, that's what they tell me at work!). :grin:

Yes. This would be an extension of Teal's idea of a creche. I have an idea for a later story where I can get more explicit on this too.

A "sub culture" of Tilkrig could be useful in various ways, I think. Spying?

I think you will want to remember your post on this. :wink: You have a mix of spot on predictions in there....I won't say which but we'll all know by the end of the Cartel cycle.

I'll look forward to it.

The Curtmudgeon

November 20th 2006, 01:12 PM

Also, looks like tomorrow will be the next update, not Monday as planned.

Just for that, I'm going on strike until Tuesday.

The (I protest cruelty to Hearthstone addicts) Curtmudgeon

jpholding

November 20th 2006, 02:21 PM

Feh. :hehe: But at least the next installment will be 5 pages. Maybe even 6.

Now here's a little food for thought. I decided to check out what's going on in comic books these days and visited a comic book store yesterday. My consult warned me I'd be disappointed, and I wasn't, because my expectations were low.

I think you can encapsulate my reaction to the latest in DC and Marvel products with the word, "Huh?" I don't expect to pick up everything that's going on in the middle of a story, but I can't see how a story can have characters beating enemies to a pulp while having a normal convseration. Over 90% of the pages I looked at I could make neither heads nor tails of what was going on. Dialogue often seemed disconnected.

The only thing coherent enough for me to remember had the Hulk beating up Captain America in the ruins of some building, over some sort of affair someone had with David Banner's girlfriend. Captain America pointed to some guy and said, he's the one who did it, and for the next few panels Hulk was beating up on this "naked guy" as he kept calling him.

The word "stupid" doesn't seem to do this sort of thing justice.

I'm starting to understand now why I might be able to make something out of Hearthstone. It's not like these comics; it's -- uh -- COHERENT.

Does anyone else share my views of the state of comics these days?

Abykale

November 20th 2006, 03:29 PM

I don't read (American) comic books, because of their reputation and because I never really understood the point of superheroes anyway. I read some Sonic the Hedgehog a few years ago because my siblings were obsessed with it, and while it was better than I expected, I was still glad when they turned to more intelligent pastimes.

Teallaura

November 20th 2006, 04:05 PM

Gave up in '91. Been back a few times (mostly DC and of course Spidey) and didn't find them that bad - but no where near as good as they once were.

I did learn one thing though - if it has the word 'ultimate' in the title it will be a) totally disconnected from continuity and b) stupid beyond belief.

The Curtmudgeon

November 20th 2006, 04:07 PM

....The word "stupid" doesn't seem to do this sort of thing justice.

I'm starting to understand now why I might be able to make something out of Hearthstone. It's not like these comics; it's -- uh -- COHERENT.

Does anyone else share my views of the state of comics these days?

I dropped out of comic collecting in '95, and only sporadically checked back in over the years until I sold off the old collection gradually over the previous couple of years. When I did pick up a new comic book during that time, I quickly put it back down and washed my hands. I didn't see anything that even began to tempt me back into regular readership, much less spending my very hard-to-come-by sheckels on.

But lest you become too sanguine about your chances with HS, old friend, you need to realise one thing: these poor excuses for comics today are popular with what currently passes for readership. The vast majority of them are incapable of "getting" Hearthstone.

The ("the intelligence of the planet ...", and so on) Curtmudgeon

jpholding

November 20th 2006, 05:09 PM

But lest you become too sanguine about your chances with HS, old friend, you need to realise one thing: these poor excuses for comics today are popular with what currently passes for readership. The vast majority of them are incapable of "getting" Hearthstone.

I'll settle for attracting the disenfranchised who wish there was something better. :wink: As with my apologetics, I'd rather speak to a room of 10 appreciative people than a room of 100 whose most intelligent comment will be "duh, what"?

November 20th 2006, 05:32 PM

Teallaura

November 20th 2006, 05:53 PM

Now there's an idea... a bonus feature of a brief clip of Hearthstone done in an over-the-top parody of modern American comic books. :grin:As talented as JP is, it's impossible to parody something that's become a parody of itself...

:sigh:

Spheniscine

November 20th 2006, 10:51 PM

Now there's an idea... a bonus feature of a brief clip of Hearthstone done in an over-the-top parody of modern American comic books. :grin:
Does this count?
http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon2/rangtoon2049.html

jpholding

November 21st 2006, 01:28 PM

http://www.tektoonics.com/intro/rangtoon5/rangtoon5042.html

Five more pages. Special thanks to Teal for the help on this one.

Teal, I couldn't figure a way to use the footnotes and as I mentioned to you I did modify the Sandigger scenario; it's more realistic for an Eastern setting.

Teallaura

November 21st 2006, 04:10 PM

:demure: You're welcome.

Looks like it works as is (easier to read now, too! :wink:) and that's fine. Made sense.

Now, to the important part - soo close and yet sooo far.....

:sigh: Poor Beamer......

:sad:

Spheniscine

November 21st 2006, 11:20 PM

But doesn't that conflict with the time when Beamer licked the probe in RP#1?

jpholding

November 22nd 2006, 12:29 AM

But doesn't that conflict with the time when Beamer licked the probe in RP#1?

When Teal first suggested this idea I noted that in a PM to her, saying that I didn't think it would be a problem. If there had been a break in Annabelle's skin, perhaps, or if some had gotten in her eyes or mouth, but otherwise no.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Teal.

Teallaura

November 22nd 2006, 05:29 AM

No, that's right. External skin doesn't have the sensitivity of mucosal tissue. A break in the skin - or a great deal more exposure - would be a problem, but not a mild exposure like that....

And Beamer didn't seem to know there was any risk at all. Not to mention that Annabelle isn't Elapine or Drovine and wouldn't have the same acute sensitivity.

The bigger question would be how the heck did he get a suction cup to work over fur? Usually the fur would have to be shaved in order to get the necessary seal.

Little Shepherd

November 22nd 2006, 01:42 PM

The bigger question would be how the heck did he get a suction cup to work over fur? Usually the fur would have to be shaved in order to get the necessary seal.
It's special Hearthstone technology. We don't have fur all over, so we haven't had the necessary impetus to make such a special suction cup, but on Hearthstone everyone has fur all over all the time! So they spent the money on research necessary to make a specialized fur-ignoring suction cup.

It makes perfect sense! :shifty:

jpholding

November 22nd 2006, 05:12 PM

It's special Hearthstone technology. We don't have fur all over, so we haven't had the necessary impetus to make such a special suction cup, but on Hearthstone everyone has fur all over all the time! So they spent the money on research necessary to make a specialized fur-ignoring suction cup.

It makes perfect sense! :shifty:

The thing is, it DOES. Almost certainly such a society would have had to devise such a thing.

Well, time to sign off before I leave town and take the last few pages of RP #5 with me to finish. It's possible I'll have the next update Saturday or Sunday. Then the conclusion on Thursday along with the site revamp.

See ya'll! :thumb:

Leonhard

November 23rd 2006, 01:26 PM

Aww he didn't get to kiss her and now he has to become a tilkrieg again, sigh... Sheila is really sweet and as I suspected she knew about it all along, she's a smart elapine after all. I hope she gives him a smooch on his cheek to comfort him after his reversal, or maybe they'll get one farewell kiss. Though I suspect that Jelica and Beamer, will try to out do the Ketterlings in flirting and tender moments, when they finally hook up.

Teals piece was really great, stuff like that helps make the world more real, kinda like the directions on the painkillers.

The thing is, it DOES. Almost certainly such a society would have had to devise such a thing.

Well, time to sign off before I leave town and take the last few pages of RP #5 with me to finish. It's possible I'll have the next update Saturday or Sunday. Then the conclusion on Thursday along with the site revamp.

See ya'll! :thumb:

There's a much simpler explanation. I would agree with Teal, that one would have to shave the part to get a proper seal and this would also what would have been done in most circumstances in their world. Beamer however is a smart tilkrieg and knows that Annabelle is rather icy at the moment (he needs a cold suit and she causes ice burns even in a fainted state) and so takes advantage of this. Using Annabelle's coldness to freeze the saliva meant that he didn't need to shaven that spot on her forehead. Sounds good? At least thats what I would have done in that situation.

jpholding

November 23rd 2006, 09:05 PM

Hello, from Sarasota FL and my sister in law's house...where I have now finished all but the last 2 pages of inks for RP #5. :thumb:

I hope she gives him a smooch on his cheek to comfort him after his reversal, or maybe they'll get one farewell kiss.

We shall see.... :whistle:

Though I suspect that Jelica and Beamer, will try to out do the Ketterlings in flirting and tender moments, when they finally hook up.

The Ketterlings do add a dimension to the original threesome that used to be the Range Patrol, per my plan. It's intentional that they all look up to each other and rely on each other.

So yes, I do see the Ketterling marriage as a model that the others will think to emulate in their own relationships. Of course Jelica being from the East means it would start as an arranged marriage, but the plan is that they will like each other a great deal even before that -- and I have another dimension or two to add as well. :wink:

Teals piece was really great, stuff like that helps make the world more real, kinda like the directions on the painkillers.

I'd like to plug in more stuff like that in future stories and also back in the older ones. Teal also gave me something that will be used to explain what is happening to the prisoner.

And no one has noted yet that we had our first look at some of Hearthstone's lower life forms.... :whistle:

Beamer however is a smart tilkrieg and knows that Annabelle is rather icy at the moment (he needs a cold suit and she causes ice burns even in a fainted state) and so takes advantage of this. Using Annabelle's coldness to freeze the saliva meant that he didn't need to shaven that spot on her forehead. Sounds good? At least thats what I would have done in that situation.

Well, I *was* thinking of using that as a reason. :hehe: