I find religion rather confusing.

[Cerebrus13]

I do not find the concept of religion confusing; a God, a deity, maybe some prophets here or there, I get that. But why?

Quite simply, I cannot understand how people can believe in religion. Show me math, show me a fairly simple, logical series of rules dictating something, I get that. Show me an ancient book proclaiming an omnipotent, inconceivable being creating all that we know, have known and ever will know, I don't get so much.


So why do you believe?

[JusticeMachine]

I do not find the concept of religion confusing; a God, a deity, maybe some prophets here or there, I get that. But why?

Quite simply, I cannot understand how people can believe in religion. Show me math, show me a fairly simple, logical series of rules dictating something, I get that. Show me an ancient book proclaiming an omnipotent, inconceivable being creating all that we know, have known and ever will know, I don't get so much.


So why do you believe?


We believe because we have experienced. And through our experience we witness. We know full well there are those who will hear our witness, believe and experience too, and there are those who will not.

[The Plain Jane]

Yet another thread started in the wrong place.



So why do you believe?
That is simple. I believe because the Word (Scripture) quickened my dead spirit. It says in Scripture, "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

[RanRan]

So why do you believe?Because NOBODY could make this up!

[James Peter]

We believe because we have experienced. And through our experience we witness. We know full well there are those who will hear our witness, believe and experience too, and there are those who will not.

I agree. It is because what I have experienced allows no other explanation that I believe.

[Gabby]

I do not find the concept of religion confusing; a God, a deity, maybe some prophets here or there, I get that. But why?

Quite simply, I cannot understand how people can believe in religion. Show me math, show me a fairly simple, logical series of rules dictating something, I get that. Show me an ancient book proclaiming an omnipotent, inconceivable being creating all that we know, have known and ever will know, I don't get so much.


So why do you believe?

I don't believe in "a religion", but I do believe in a God and his Love for me. Because of that I must respond to Him in a way that others may see as "religious".

[BrianK]

I don't know why I believe all I know is that God is real

[ApologiaPhoenix]

This thread is being moved to general theistics

[lao tzu]

I do not find the concept of religion confusing; a God, a deity, maybe some prophets here or there, I get that. But why?

Quite simply, I cannot understand how people can believe in religion. Show me math, show me a fairly simple, logical series of rules dictating something, I get that. Show me an ancient book proclaiming an omnipotent, inconceivable being creating all that we know, have known and ever will know, I don't get so much.

So why do you believe? I figured this thread would find its way over into general theistics eventually.

Welcome to TWeb, Cerebrus13,

There is much more to religion than gods, prophets and sacred texts. In fact, there are large and successful religions today that have none of these. Faith encompasses a broader range than mere faith in the supernatural. Nor is the supernatural an essential ingredient of religious faith.

As ever, Jesse

[Menaechmus]

I do not find the concept of religion confusing; a God, a deity, maybe some prophets here or there, I get that. But why?

Quite simply, I cannot understand how people can believe in religion. Show me math, show me a fairly simple, logical series of rules dictating something, I get that. Show me an ancient book proclaiming an omnipotent, inconceivable being creating all that we know, have known and ever will know, I don't get so much.


So why do you believe?

Love.

It sounds like a load of crap but really, everyone must be loved or they feel almost hopeless. And god is love, so for us its kind of like being in love with love. Im sure its really hard to grasp but love itself is such a hard thing to grasp.

God as a concept is brilliant...He is love and everything was created by him, therefore everything was created by love for love. Everything good is a form of love and therefore is from god.

The Devils also a great concept...he is the father of lies and there is no good in him. He wants to watch you suffer and destory yourself.

it is a rather simple concept we just make it WAY to hard...and the world is set up like that. notice how no one fully believes anyone else? Including the one who has say over everything.

Thats pretty much a typical church answer.

[Menaechmus]

Because NOBODY could make this up!

hahahaha ran ran i love your answer

[zorathruster]

Quite simply, I cannot understand how people can believe in religion. Show me math, show me a fairly simple, logical series of rules dictating something, I get that.

Here is the pragmatic answer. Family groups started expanding. To moderate the individual into a contributing member it was necessary to form group cohesion. In a family this is in one's genetic interest. In a tribe, not so much. So rules had to form to generally keep everyone in line and cooperating. Written rules don't do much good since for the majority of the human existence most were illiterate. Even if you were to write down every rule, as western society has tried, it gets too complex to keep a working knowledge, even judges have to refer to the books in cases. Now how do you get people to surrender their individualism and contribute to group cohesion and survival? Religion. So you do a special dance, or conduct a special ritual (baptism in the case of Christianity), all designed to make you part of the group. You get group benefits, which in the 'war like' past meant protection of the group. You get access to marriage and children. You also have to provide support to the group. You have to fight when the neighbors invade or you have to go out with the raiding party. Religion serves to separate the "in" from the "out", the saved from the unsaved, the Hutus from the Tutsis. That means you now know who to trust, who to support and who to request support from. Since some group benefits have lost meaning, defending the community for example, new benefits have to take their place or the group appeal disolves. Thus the appearence of heaven and the afterlife. There is no better reward than no reward. It is described as the ultimate lottery win. Everything, for ever, all desires satiated, paradise. Although it is a fantasy, it still serves as a bonding mechanism to keep people devoted to the group. No less than the Baptism, or the jumping off the tressel with vines tied to your ankles, or cerimonial cuts in one's back.

[Thankful1]

I do not find the concept of religion confusing; a God, a deity, maybe some prophets here or there, I get that. But why?

Quite simply, I cannot understand how people can believe in religion. Show me math, show me a fairly simple, logical series of rules dictating something, I get that. Show me an ancient book proclaiming an omnipotent, inconceivable being creating all that we know, have known and ever will know, I don't get so much.


So why do you believe?

Hi Celebrus13

I believe in "religion" because I believe that God exists and I believe that the God that exists revealed Himself through the general revelation of nature and also through the revelation of the Scriptures. I find that Christianity best fits the world as I see it.

[God_is_personal]

Hi, zorathruster...God bless you...interesting to meet you by means of your comments in the above post

You seem to be explaining how and why we humans have our religions; one remark you give is, "So rules had to form to generally keep everyone in line and cooperating." Yes, we do have this. Kind of like the "Santa Claus" trick was used to get us kids to be good at Christmas time, remember?

But you say, "Written rules don't do much good since for the majority of the human existence most were illiterate." Well, we also have some pretty high-up reputed Bible scholars who study the original scripture tongues, but can't agree even with others of their same denomination on certain issues. But I believe God is able to communicate personally with each of us to make sure we get things right, and it will be the SAME thing we all get...with Him. But I'm not perfect, also; so I too can fool my own self and not even know it. So I need to keep trusting God to get through to me, howsoever You would PLEASE, and THANK You!!! I DO need it!!! Because of how I can fool myself, I certainly do need God...NOT just a religion.

You say, "Now how do you get people to surrender their individualism and contribute to group cohesion and survival? Religion." Yup...the conformist thing, of copy-catting everyone else, and judging people by if they put on the act that everyone is looking for. Then along comes some predator who also can put on this acting as a CAMOUFLAGE! BOOGER!! to say the least. I offer that God is our Creator and not just a cloner. He is able to make each of us so specially unique . . . so we can perfectly fit together in Jesus Christ's one Body, as His members.

You say ones fit together in a religion, AND > "That means you now know who to trust, who to support and who to request support from." Except for one thing, that con artist or predator with a little acting ability can put on the act everyone is looking for so he or she gets trust. But with God we can tell the difference > Jesus does clearly say, "'Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.'" (John 7:24) So, I OFFER, He gave us this commandment because God does expect us to be able to tell the difference between who we should trust and who we had better not; we can check with God who cares for us and will not lead us wrong > "casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." (1 Peter 5:7) In His peace we have His own reliable leading to coordinate us according to all that He knows is really true (Colossians 3:15).

And then you're saying there is the Heaven bluff, to Santa-Claus us into being good and conforming > "Thus the appearence of heaven and the afterlife. There is no better reward than no reward." I offer, though, that even though there IS some pseudo-Heaven scamming going on...still, we have God. And He is our Reward > "After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying, 'Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your exceedingly great reward.'" (Genesis 15:1) My experience is that while I obey God, He is my Reward...NOW...as much as I live His love so kind and personally satisfying > in His love I enjoy Heaven's own pleasantness caressing my soul NOW...while this love deeply and nicely satisfies me to love ALL people. BUT, still I'm not egg-zactly that good at staying in this. But it's worth the investment.

[lilpixieofterror]

I do not find the concept of religion confusing; a God, a deity, maybe some prophets here or there, I get that. But why?

What are you asking why about?


Quite simply, I cannot understand how people can believe in religion. Show me math, show me a fairly simple, logical series of rules dictating something, I get that.

Not everything in life is going to be simple and can be expressed in math or a logical dictating series. For example emotions and beauty are two things that can not be expressed in those ways. I can't logicaly explain my feelings when I first saw my parents after a gradulated Basic Training, I can't use math to express why my heart starts racing when my BF holds my hand. These are just some examples of things in life that can only be felt, no words can truly capture those expirences.


Show me an ancient book proclaiming an omnipotent, inconceivable being creating all that we know, have known and ever will know, I don't get so much.

Get some much of what? That God chose to communiate with man kind in a specific way by prophets and writings?



So why do you believe?

I can not fully express it, but I feel that Christianity is the most logical path. I can give you arguments about such things as the problem of evil, free-will, morality, ect. However; there is still going to be things I can't express by mere words. I will try if you ask for specifics though.

Crystal

[zorathruster]

Hi, zorathruster...God bless you...interesting to meet you by means of your comments in the above post

You seem to be explaining how and why we humans have our religions; one remark you give is, "So rules had to form to generally keep everyone in line and cooperating." Yes, we do have this. Kind of like the "Santa Claus" trick was used to get us kids to be good at Christmas time, remember?

But you say, "Written rules don't do much good since for the majority of the human existence most were illiterate." Well, we also have some pretty high-up reputed Bible scholars who study the original scripture tongues, but can't agree even with others of their same denomination on certain issues. But I believe God is able to communicate personally with each of us to make sure we get things right, and it will be the SAME thing we all get...with Him. But I'm not perfect, also; so I too can fool my own self and not even know it. So I need to keep trusting God to get through to me, howsoever You would PLEASE, and THANK You!!! I DO need it!!! Because of how I can fool myself, I certainly do need God...NOT just a religion.

You say, "Now how do you get people to surrender their individualism and contribute to group cohesion and survival? Religion." Yup...the conformist thing, of copy-catting everyone else, and judging people by if they put on the act that everyone is looking for. Then along comes some predator who also can put on this acting as a CAMOUFLAGE! BOOGER!! to say the least. I offer that God is our Creator and not just a cloner. He is able to make each of us so specially unique . . . so we can perfectly fit together in Jesus Christ's one Body, as His members.

You say ones fit together in a religion, AND > "That means you now know who to trust, who to support and who to request support from." Except for one thing, that con artist or predator with a little acting ability can put on the act everyone is looking for so he or she gets trust. But with God we can tell the difference > Jesus does clearly say, "'Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.'" (John 7:24) So, I OFFER, He gave us this commandment because God does expect us to be able to tell the difference between who we should trust and who we had better not; we can check with God who cares for us and will not lead us wrong > "casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." (1 Peter 5:7) In His peace we have His own reliable leading to coordinate us according to all that He knows is really true (Colossians 3:15).

And then you're saying there is the Heaven bluff, to Santa-Claus us into being good and conforming > "Thus the appearence of heaven and the afterlife. There is no better reward than no reward." I offer, though, that even though there IS some pseudo-Heaven scamming going on...still, we have God. And He is our Reward > "After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying, 'Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, your exceedingly great reward.'" (Genesis 15:1) My experience is that while I obey God, He is my Reward...NOW...as much as I live His love so kind and personally satisfying > in His love I enjoy Heaven's own pleasantness caressing my soul NOW...while this love deeply and nicely satisfies me to love ALL people. BUT, still I'm not egg-zactly that good at staying in this. But it's worth the investment.

Sorry Bill I just answered the question. My answer does not involve difficult concepts, it pretty much shows how humans developed and how religion provides certain rational reasons to participate. Humans and every other organism find ways to adapt and prosper. My explanation does not require a God, needless to say, I don't believe there is one out there.

If you would like to explain how your God affects humans, why he would affect them in the way you have articulated above, and be able to give us all a definition we would be most happy to show you how that definition is contradictory.

The easiest way to disprove a God exists is to show that the definition is self contradictory. The problem with most Christians, they fail to forward a defintion for analysis.

Off to Germany for a few days, see if you can come up with a definition for your God, how he interacts, and what principles he follows and we can discuss it later.

[God_is_personal]

Hi, Cerebrus13 > my apology for how I got a little busy with zorothruster, away from your question; you wrote >

"Show me math, show me a fairly simple, logical series of rules dictating something, I get that. Show me an ancient book proclaiming an omnipotent, inconceivable being creating all that we know, have known and ever will know, I don't get so much."

Well, I can see why, perhaps, you would want what is simple. Math can be predictable. It can be easier to get along with something predictable!!! We can get along with money so easier than we can with other people, "often enough"

:lol:

It takes "a little" more effort to deal with people; we humans are more complex and complicated . . . and difficult > well, make the connection, here, with how God is certainly more complex and intricate, etc., than we are; so it's quite an adventure to deal with Him.

And I find Him to be very kind and sensitive and caring, worth learning how to relate with Him. I'm experiencing this; so this is "why" I believe.

[zorathruster]

OK Bill I'm back, and I see you haven't found a good definition yet. Well that is pretty consistent.

Religion is confusing because they don't want to explain it. Like Bill above. When they make the effort to define their terms, the words don't make sense or they become contradictory.

The best way to understand what it is to be human is to study humanity. Study our brains and how they got to be the way they are - evolutionary biology. Then figure out why we are psychologically the way we are - evolutionary psychology.

[Christy]

God: the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe

[God_is_personal]

This thread is for why we believe in God, I understand; so I invite zorathruster and anyone else to "Did God Lie When He Said Adam Would Die?" in Apologetics...where I invite and welcome communication about "contradictions", "definition" of God, etc. . . . an open thread, as far as I'm concerned...not limited to the title question.

Back to THIS thread > another aspect of why I believe . . . I check with God. I know I'm not perfect, just human. And I've seen how other people can be even very highly intelligent and even have pretty much the exact same info, yet can not agree on the same thing. Two geniuses can come to exact opposite conclusions!! We humans do have the ability to fool our own selves and not even know it. Look at all the kids who believe all the stuff their cultures have told them, in various countries...and it's false. So this shows how we can be so gullible.

So, I figured if there is God, He would know this, and know if Jesus and the Bible are His "thing" or not. How He has me love is a match with what Jesus has said in His Sermon on the Mount...NOT that I always am like this, though. I'm very improvable. I'd say I can fool my own selve according to how I may want to see things, and so it is wise to check with God. And, since I am the one who can be in denial etc., ignoring what I do not want to see about myself...I'd have to give Him the credit if I am somehow being honest about Him. Because, like I say, I can lose it and fool myself in an instant and could go who knows where. So I thank Him for having mercy on me and getting through to me. He's the reason I believe, then...how He had mercy on me, and has seen fit to get through to me...in spite of my stupid self stubborn and in denial etc. Halleluiah!!!

[zorathruster]

God: the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe

Supreme being has no meaning. Compared to an ant, I am a supreme being. Compared to Crockadile Hunter Steven Erwin, a sting ray is a supreme being. Compared to a Salmon in the river in Alaska, a bear is a supreme being. Therefore, what you have asserted is nothing more that supremecy based on no observable criteria. Supremicy is relative, therefore, the God you propose is just an advanced form of intelligence that we haven't yet dominated. And once he shows up we will dominate him too.

Ruler of the universe? And who does he rule over? Is there a total human subservience to him? I don't - therefore, he does not rule me. Since I maintain a position in the universe, there is something he does not rule over. Therefore, he does not maintain total authority and therefore, is not supreme.

It is apparent through facts, I realize you may not be familiar with most of them, that the universe has operated just fine since the big bang without interference from the Grand Pooh bah of your imagination. Since the universe appears to operate just fine without a God, it is a redundant postulation.

[zorathruster]

> another aspect of why I believe . . . I check with God.



So, I figured if there is God, He would know this, and know if Jesus and the Bible are His "thing" or not. How He has me love is a match with what Jesus has said in His Sermon on the Mount...NOT that I always am like this, though. I'm very improvable. I'd say I can fool my own selve according to how I may want to see things, and so it is wise to check with God. And, since I am the one who can be in denial etc., ignoring what I do not want to see about myself...I'd have to give Him the credit if I am somehow being honest about Him. Because, like I say, I can lose it and fool myself in an instant and could go who knows where. So I thank Him for having mercy on me and getting through to me. He's the reason I believe, then...how He had mercy on me, and has seen fit to get through to me...in spite of my stupid self stubborn and in denial etc. Halleluiah!!!

This is not convincing. First off he could if all powerful make himself absolutely undeniably verified. He does not. That is a fault. Who you talk to is irrelevant and there is no way you can verify that it is something other than your own imagination. - Since he never really answers. You really are in denial. Your self focus is also irrelevant. You can fool yourself into believing anything you want. You can believe in unicorns, leprichans, fairies or gods, it is unimportant because they all have the same verification. None.

For the same reason most people discount Zeus, fairies, Zoraster, and all the other man made fantasies - we non-theists discount your god. We are all atheists, you just have one more god to go before we are the same. You want to proclaim - every one of these other fantasies are delusions, but my delusion is real and even though I have no more evidence than any of those I have discounted, I know mine is real.

Delusions are self deluding.

[Christy]

Supreme being has no meaning. Compared to an ant, I am a supreme being. Compared to Crockadile Hunter Steven Erwin, a sting ray is a supreme being. Compared to a Salmon in the river in Alaska, a bear is a supreme being. Therefore, what you have asserted is nothing more that supremecy based on no observable criteria. Supremicy is relative, therefore, the God you propose is just an advanced form of intelligence that we haven't yet dominated. And once he shows up we will dominate him too.

And how do you think we would do that?



Ruler of the universe? And who does he rule over? Is there a total human subservience to him? I don't - therefore, he does not rule me. Since I maintain a position in the universe, there is something he does not rule over. Therefore, he does not maintain total authority and therefore, is not supreme.

So, you wouldn't call a king a ruler of a country if there's people that don't believe he is a king?

[shadowman]

why does this super intricate complex of complexities care what we call him, we does he even care if we care about or beleive in him? seriously it doent seem obvious or stand to reason unless he isnt so complex. its almost like a bad episode of the sci fi channel sliders were we get stuck with the crazy god.

sounds like he is a little too "personlike"


and hes not very good at aproximating pie either, if his first and last word is in the bible.


only "proof" of him is in peoples minds and in their perceptions of the world.

[Christy]

seriously it doent seem obvious or stand to reason unless he isnt so complex. its almost like a bad episode of the sci fi channel sliders were we get stuck with the crazy god.

How so?

[zorathruster]

And how do you think we would do that?




So, you wouldn't call a king a ruler of a country if there's people that don't believe he is a king?

There is a gentleman in Central Park who claims himself - King of America. A few of his buddies know him as King of America, therefore in accordance with your assertion, he is king of America.

What exactly would you think of a man who searches around and gets people to worship him? Why do you think differently about a mystical creature that desires the same thing? If you are consistent you should examine the actions and interactions of this mystical God you say exists and judge his actions using a consistent measure. If he kills frivolously, then you should attribute him the same designation that you would attribute a human who kills frivolously. If he assists in the enslavement of people you should think of him the same as you think of slave traders who do the same thing.

This mythical God has qualities and some of those qualities are abhorent. You should be as critical of your mythical god as you are of humans.

[Christy]

There is a gentleman in Central Park who claims himself - King of America. A few of his buddies know him as King of America, therefore in accordance with your assertion, he is king of America.

No, I didn't assert that. I'm talking about somebody who is really a king and who makes rules. I guess you can say "I'm not going to follow his rules so he's no ruler, so there's no such thing as a ruler!"


What exactly would you think of a man who searches around and gets people to worship him?

I would probably think that he's crazy, since only God should be worshipped. If he gave me evidence that he was God, I'll have to think about it, but what I know, he's most likely not.


Why do you think differently about a mystical creature that desires the same thing? Because the mystical "creature" knows what is best for everybody, since He knows everything. He can't be a creature either, since a creature applies that He was created.


If you are consistent you should examine the actions and interactions of this mystical God you say exists and judge his actions using a consistent measure. If he kills frivolously, then you should attribute him the same designation that you would attribute a human who kills frivolously.
Well the person who kills frivolously doesn't know everything


If he assists in the enslavement of people you should think of him the same as you think of slave traders who do the same thing.

What I said above

[zorathruster]

No, I didn't assert that. I'm talking about somebody who is really a king and who makes rules. I guess you can say "I'm not going to follow his rules so he's no ruler, so there's no such thing as a ruler!"



I would probably think that he's crazy, since only God should be worshipped. If he gave me evidence that he was God, I'll have to think about it, but what I know, he's most likely not.

Because the mystical "creature" knows what is best for everybody, since He knows everything. He can't be a creature either, since a creature applies that He was created.


Well the person who kills frivolously doesn't know everything



What I said above

I do not recognize his rules or his authority, again I submit he does not have any affect directly on humans. Some humans may wish to follow the rules that are attributed to the God however it still has no authority.

Obviously best for everyone would not include burning a good portion of them for eternity. That cannot fall under any catagory, "best".

Really a king? Like who? I don't recognize the authority of any king. I am a free man, I belong to no one. There are other, plenty of other, people who don't recognize the authority of a king. Why is this so difficult to understand?

"Knowing everything" is not a rationale for atrocious behavior. No matter what I know it does not validate behavior that is immoral. If I were to iterate my knowledge to include infinite knowledge it would not change whether that behavior was moral or not. Just because I know more does not change the distinguishing characteristic of an act. Otherwise, smarter people could conduct immoral acts because of their knowledge level.

There is no level of knowledge which will validate mass slaughter as moral.
There is no level of knowledge which will validate enslaving conscious beings.

[shadowman]

How so?


humans judge and condemn. i dont advocate jails i advocate rehabilitation, i most certainly do not advocate death and life sentances. still, i guess we do need to have judgement of some kind n our courts even if it is not done "right" at this prsent time. we only get one shot at life, and humans are being jailed for life becuase of "crimes" that are only considered crimes because society deems that they go against what it wants.

regardless of all this, (did i just prove that human judgement is immoral? haha I KNOW THE BIBLE DOES!)

regardless of all this

can god judge? should he judge and condemn?

is he not god, cant he do whatever he wants?

god demanding worship, god saying worship me this way or else, accept me this way or else. it seems weird to me but then again

we are human
maybe we are stuck with a god who is tragically flawed as well.

the mystic ideas of infinity. and the contrived christin view of a "god that is mysterious and beyond our understanding" (I dont know what christians even argu about, everything is in the bible, and that is the word of god!)

maybe these mytic ideas are all wishful thinking. and god is just as much as a dick as we are!

[Christy]

I do not recognize his rules or his authority, again I submit he does not have any affect directly on humans. Some humans may wish to follow the rules that are attributed to the God however it still has no authority.

God controls the rules of the universe. He lets us live, when He could just get rid of us. He does have an affect on humans, even if we don't follow His laws.


Obviously best for everyone would not include burning a good portion of them for eternity. That cannot fall under any catagory, "best".

I don't know if there' is really literal burning in hell, but I don't think that the people who go there want anything to do with God anyway.



Really a king? Like who? I don't recognize the authority of any king. I am a free man, I belong to no one.[/qoute]

Are you sure?

[Quote=]There are other, plenty of other, people who don't recognize the authority of a king. Why is this so difficult to understand?

:huh: I understand that, I never said that there wasn't.


"Knowing everything" is not a rationale for atrocious behavior. No matter what I know it does not validate behavior that is immoral. Aren't morals relative in the first place?

[shunyadragon]

I do not find the concept of religion confusing; a God, a deity, maybe some prophets here or there, I get that. But why?

Quite simply, I cannot understand how people can believe in religion. Show me math, show me a fairly simple, logical series of rules dictating something, I get that. Show me an ancient book proclaiming an omnipotent, inconceivable being creating all that we know, have known and ever will know, I don't get so much.


So why do you believe?

Considering so many claims and so little actual support in reality, there is legitimate concern and confussion as to who or what is right or wrong. The fact that most choices have a heavy cultural burden that negates the universality of any one religion, church, sect, faith, or belief. It gives a great deal of merit to the one who believes nothing.