Good Works - Bribing God?

[Tladatsi]

The other day I was breezing through the inumerable channels that my cable company provides and I noticed the Kirk Cameron Christian Show (or whatever it is really called). So I thought, "Why not, I'll have look." I listened for a few moments. He made a very interesting argument. He said, suppose you are on trial for murder and you are going to the court house. You see the judges car park out front. You decide to give His Honor a wash and wax before the trial. You are convicted and the Judge asks you do you have anything to say before sentancing and you tell the Judge "Hey, I am not so bad, I washed and waxed your car." Is the Judge going to not punish you for your crimes just because you washed and waxed his car. Of course not. So much more so with the Divine Judge. He said, and this is pretty close to a quote (I am not a stenographer) "People who do good works are trying to bride God into forgiving them for thier sins".

That is a new one on me. I have heard the argument that good works won't help you any - Romans is full of that. However, I have never heard anyone suggest it was actually some bad (bribery is a bad thing). Has anyone every heard that argument before?

[guacamole]

Aristotle, Nichomachean Ethics: In essence, you do all your good things for an ultimately selfish ulterior motive, like doing good merely to go to heaven.

Alternately:

O'Connor, A Good Man is Hard to Find, "She would of been a good woman," said the Misfit, "If it had been someone there to shoot her everyone minute of her life."

[Minnesota]

I suspect it only holds if that was the person's motive. I don't believe there is no completely unselfish act, but I would think that an act of good done with the conscious and unconscious aim of helping would not be an act of god-bribing. And if good works are done to bribe god, just think how much more admirable are those good works done by people who don't believe in god. Agnostics and atheists should be getting gold stars all the time.

[Tladatsi]

Consider this. Bribery is when you pay someone for doing something wrong. A reward is when you pay someone for doing something right. Is it wrong for God to forgive our sins? Is it wrong to do something good even if you expect a reward?

Mat 25:34 - 46 would say the exact opposite.



I suspect it only holds if that was the person's motive. I don't believe there is no completely unselfish act, but I would think that an act of good done with the conscious and unconscious aim of helping would not be an act of god-bribing. And if good works are done to bribe god, just think how much more admirable are those good works done by people who don't believe in god. Agnostics and atheists should be getting gold stars all the time.

[Soyeong]

I think some people live under the idea that if they try there best to live a good life, then that ought to be good enough for God. What they don’t realize is that God’s standard is perfection. Certainly there are some who, whether or not they realize it, try to get on God’s good side through doing good works. If I help God out here, He should help me with this problem I got coming up. I’m sure God would rather see you be helpful, but if it is for the wrong reasons, then it doesn’t mean much.

[Soyeong]

Consider this. Bribery is when you pay someone for doing something wrong. A reward is when you pay someone for doing something right. Is it wrong for God to forgive our sins? Is it wrong to do something good even if you expect a reward?
Hmmm…I understood his use of the word bribery to mean to get God to do something that He wouldn’t normally be inclined to do. I guess if God is just, then it could be considered wrong for Him to apply a different standard for allowing someone into heaven. God is normally inclined to forgive sins under certain conditions, so it would not be wrong for Him to forgive sins. It is not wrong to do good if you expect a reward. However, if you do good for a reward that is not from God, then you shouldn’t expect God to also reward you.

[guacamole]

I suspect it only holds if that was the person's motive. I don't believe there is no completely unselfish act, but I would think that an act of good done with the conscious and unconscious aim of helping would not be an act of god-bribing. And if good works are done to bribe god, just think how much more admirable are those good works done by people who don't believe in god. Agnostics and atheists should be getting gold stars all the time.

I think that would also logically hold for people who would think that your good works can't matter, thus you would do them to be good, not to bribe God because you are already okay with God.

[Tladatsi]

In Hebrew 11:6 "...he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him."

The author of Hebrews clearly thinks we should expect reward for faith in God. If we expect reward from God for faith, why would it be wrong to expect reward from God for good works. Certainly Mat 25:34 - 46 would suggest that God does indeed reward at least some good works.


Hmmm…I understood his use of the word bribery to mean to get God to do something that He wouldn’t normally be inclined to do. I guess if God is just, then it could be considered wrong for Him to apply a different standard for allowing someone into heaven. God is normally inclined to forgive sins under certain conditions, so it would not be wrong for Him to forgive sins. It is not wrong to do good if you expect a reward. However, if you do good for a reward that is not from God, then you shouldn’t expect God to also reward you.

[Tladatsi]

I think that would also logically hold for people who would think that your good works can't matter, thus you would do them to be good, not to bribe God because you are already okay with God.

That is a good point, Kirk is making a big assumption about motivation. People might do good works just to do them.

However, let's assume that Kirk is right, that at least some people do good works to get on God's "good side" (He has a bad side?). Is that a bad thing? OK, Paul would say that cannot get you salvation, fine. Paul certainly encourages good works, he does not say they are wrong, just not the stuff of salvation. But Kirk is basically saying that doing good works with the aim of pleasing God is morally wrong.