Implications of a Multiverse on Christian Faith

[JardinPrayer]

I haven't read this forum, but a brief glance at the thread titles suggests some of what I'm about to bring up here may have been discussed before. I'm genuinely wrestling with some big questions about the universe (or multiverse) and my 17-year journey as a Christian. I've got some strong preferences on how this thread should unfold and I'll be as clear as possible about that here. I'm requesting the moderators support these preferences to the fullest extent possible.

The Question:

If we are part of a multiverse, as string theory and expansion theories are suggesting, it has been proposed that everything that can exist does exist somewhere and somewhen. It is theorized that there may be many iterations of each individual. The many worlds theory proposes that each time we make a choice, we split our reality and create a world where each choice is made. I know this is separate from the multiverse theory, but there are some crossover implications and I am still trying to understand where one line of thought ends and the other begins. For purposes of this discussion, I'm hoping to dialogue about an omnipotent creator God who is responsible for all I've just described and how meaningful (or meaningless) my decision for Christ is in this world if there are an infinite number of me's where some choose and some do not choose Him.

Requested Guidelines for Discussion:

Don't show off. This isn't a thread to flex your debate muscles in or try to one-up each other. I'm a real person working an a real struggle and most interested in thoughtful responses posted in simple, easy-to-understand language.

Avoid excessive links. A few links to very relevant articles or videos may be helpful, but please don't just refer me to a bunch of other resources. I want to hear from you as a friend would invest in a friend here. Just talk to me.

Don't try to win an argument. This isn't an opportunity to either win me back to the Christian fold or steal me for team atheist. Somewhere in your quiet hours, you must think about the meaning of it all yourself, complete with doubts and fears. Be gentle, please, and be genuine.

Thanks.

[seer]

The Question:

If we are part of a multiverse, as string theory and expansion theories are suggesting, it has been proposed that everything that can exist does exist somewhere and somewhen. It is theorized that there may be many iterations of each individual. The many worlds theory proposes that each time we make a choice, we split our reality and create a world where each choice is made. I know this is separate from the multiverse theory, but there are some crossover implications and I am still trying to understand where one line of thought ends and the other begins. For purposes of this discussion, I'm hoping to dialogue about an omnipotent creator God who is responsible for all I've just described and how meaningful (or meaningless) my decision for Christ is in this world if there are an infinite number of me's where some choose and some do not choose Him.

Well first, I don't believe that the multiverse actually exists. Second if it did, and there were multiples of you - you, in this universe, are only responsible for your actions. There would be no moral or physical connections with these other yous. So the you in this universe goes to heaven, the you in universe 1025 goes to hell. They still remain distinct beings responsible for their own acts.

[37818]

It is my personal view, whether God created just this one universe or an infinite innumerable universes there being no first creation: it makes no difference (John 1:3).

[tabibito]

The Question:

If we are part of a multiverse, as string theory and expansion theories are suggesting, it has been proposed that everything that can exist does exist somewhere and somewhen.

A while back the total number postulated was at least eight, I believe that number is now at least eleven. I kind of like the extra dimensions concept because it makes working out what is happening in the Old Testament easier to comprehend on occasion.

It is theorized that there may be many iterations of each individual. The many worlds theory proposes that each time we make a choice, we split our reality and create a world where each choice is made. I know this is separate from the multiverse theory, but there are some crossover implications and I am still trying to understand where one line of thought ends and the other begins.

There is a difference between parallel universes, and a universe with more dimensions than we can observe. To the best of my knowledge there is no scientific hypothesis proposing parallel universes or alternate universes of that type. However, the concept does make for some interesting "what ifs" in Science Fiction stories.

For purposes of this discussion, I'm hoping to dialogue about an omnipotent creator God who is responsible for all I've just described and how meaningful (or meaningless) my decision for Christ is in this world if there are an infinite number of me's where some choose and some do not choose Him.

You would be looking for an individual who had one soul shared across all the alternative iterations of himself before the scenario could play out. It's kind of mind boggling.

[Cerebrum123]

A while back the total number postulated was at least eight, I believe that number is now at least eleven. I kind of like the extra dimensions concept because it makes working out what is happening in the Old Testament easier to comprehend on occasion.

There is a difference between parallel universes, and a universe with more dimensions than we can observe. To the best of my knowledge there is no scientific hypothesis proposing parallel universes or alternate universes of that type. However, the concept does make for some interesting "what ifs" in Science Fiction stories.

You would be looking for an individual who had one soul shared across all the alternative iterations of himself before the scenario could play out. It's kind of mind boggling.

Source: Wikipedia

The many-worlds interpretation is an interpretation of quantum mechanics that asserts the objective reality of the universal wavefunction and denies the actuality of wavefunction collapse. Many-worlds implies that all possible alternate histories and futures are real, each representing an actual "world" (or "universe"). In lay terms, the hypothesis states there is a very large—perhaps infinite[2]—number of universes, and everything that could possibly have happened in our past, but did not, has occurred in the past of some other universe or universes. The theory is also referred to as MWI, the relative state formulation, the Everett interpretation, the theory of the universal wavefunction, many-universes interpretation, or just many-worlds.

© Copyright Original Source

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-w...interpretation

Sean Carroll argues for this interpretation here.

[psstein]

I don't think it really matters.

Going back to Judaism, there's a Kabbalistic idea that the first word of the Torah, Bersheis, can mean that God created as many universes as he thought necessary, but found this one to be the best spiritually.

[tabibito]

Source: Wikipedia

The many-worlds interpretation is an interpretation of quantum mechanics that asserts the objective reality of the universal wavefunction and denies the actuality of wavefunction collapse. Many-worlds implies that all possible alternate histories and futures are real, each representing an actual "world" (or "universe"). In lay terms, the hypothesis states there is a very large—perhaps infinite[2]—number of universes, and everything that could possibly have happened in our past, but did not, has occurred in the past of some other universe or universes. The theory is also referred to as MWI, the relative state formulation, the Everett interpretation, the theory of the universal wavefunction, many-universes interpretation, or just many-worlds.

© Copyright Original Source

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-w...interpretation

Sean Carroll argues for this interpretation here.

Ah - a whole set of beliefs and speculations about what might be that I wasn't aware of. Thanks.

[One Bad Pig]

As far as I understand it, Molinism postulates that God conceived of all possible worlds (exhaustive definite foreknowledge), and actualized the one with the best possible outcome.

[JardinPrayer]

As far as I understand it, Molinism postulates that God conceived of all possible worlds (exhaustive definite foreknowledge), and actualized the one with the best possible outcome.

So, do I understand this correctly to suggest that all the other possible worlds could have existed, but never did? In this case, I'm wondering how that fits with the mathematics of particle theory that led to the development of the multiverse and many worlds theories. Would the equations be satisfied with a theory that simply posits potential?

I've been trying to understand three different concepts and how they interrelate:

1. The need for up to 11 dimensions to explain particle behavior at the sub-atomic level;
2. The idea that universes are being born and expiring all the time because of either collision of or division of existing universes (and, as an explain for our Big Bang as just one of many);
3. The quantum mechanics suggestion that all possibilities are realities and that each time we choose, we split our reality.

I'm trying to wrap my brain around how 2 and 3 interrelate (or don't), as well as the mind-blowing vastness of these implications. As I played a game of mah jong on my iPad yesterday, I wondered if I had just created 52 alternate realities just by choosing the order in which I removed tiles. Then, each one of those 52 must have created 52 more with their games, etc. This thinking tends to lead me back to not trying to understand at all, rather just to be still and know that He is God. Then, I get passionately curious again. It's not a comfortable thing to me.

[One Bad Pig]

So, do I understand this correctly to suggest that all the other possible worlds could have existed, but never did?

Yes.

In this case, I'm wondering how that fits with the mathematics of particle theory that led to the development of the multiverse and many worlds theories. Would the equations be satisfied with a theory that simply posits potential?

I have no idea.

I've been trying to understand three different concepts and how they interrelate:

1. The need for up to 11 dimensions to explain particle behavior at the sub-atomic level;
2. The idea that universes are being born and expiring all the time because of either collision of or division of existing universes (and, as an explain for our Big Bang as just one of many);
3. The quantum mechanics suggestion that all possibilities are realities and that each time we choose, we split our reality.

I'm not sure how 1 interrelates with the other two; AFAICS the many dimensions are all in *this* universe.

I'm trying to wrap my brain around how 2 and 3 interrelate (or don't), as well as the mind-blowing vastness of these implications. As I played a game of mah jong on my iPad yesterday, I wondered if I had just created 52 alternate realities just by choosing the order in which I removed tiles. Then, each one of those 52 must have created 52 more with their games, etc. This thinking tends to lead me back to not trying to understand at all, rather just to be still and know that He is God. Then, I get passionately curious again. It's not a comfortable thing to me.

As far as I am aware, there is no way to test 2 and 3; all we have knowledge of is *this* universe, so IMO we should simply do our best to live within it and not worry about what we cannot change.

[shunyadragon]

So, do I understand this correctly to suggest that all the other possible worlds could have existed, but never did? In this case, I'm wondering how that fits with the mathematics of particle theory that led to the development of the multiverse and many worlds theories. Would the equations be satisfied with a theory that simply posits potential?

This does not likely fit any version of multiverse models. It represents religious version of what Creation may represent. Some models propose a relationship between possible universes, but other models conclude that there is not necessarily any connection between possible universes in different versions of any one multi-universe model. Most models remain hypothetical as to the nature and relationship between the universe, but all propose the multiverse likely contain many universes.

I've been trying to understand three different concepts and how they interrelate:

1. The need for up to 11 dimensions to explain particle behavior at the sub-atomic level;
2. The idea that universes are being born and expiring all the time because of either collision of or division of existing universes (and, as an explain for our Big Bang as just one of many);
3. The quantum mechanics suggestion that all possibilities are realities and that each time we choose, we split our reality.

I'm trying to wrap my brain around how 2 and 3 interrelate (or don't), as well as the mind-blowing vastness of these implications. As I played a game of mah jong on my iPad yesterday, I wondered if I had just created 52 alternate realities just by choosing the order in which I removed tiles. Then, each one of those 52 must have created 52 more with their games, etc. This thinking tends to lead me back to not trying to understand at all, rather just to be still and know that He is God. Then, I get passionately curious again. It's not a comfortable thing to me.

It is best not to try to hard looking for specific conclusions concerning multiverse models, and simply try understand the science of physics and cosmology without religious presuppositions.

[JardinPrayer]

This does not likely fit any version of multiverse models. It represents religious version of what Creation may represent. Some models propose a relationship between possible universes, but other models conclude that there is not necessarily any connection between possible universes in different versions of any one multi-universe model. Most models remain hypothetical as to the nature and relationship between the universe, but all propose the multiverse likely contain many universes.

I'm afraid I didn't understand this, particularly your last sentence. Aren't all models hypothetical in theoretical physics? And, by definition, a multiverse is many universes. I'm not being argumentative. I'm just confused about what you were trying to say here.

It is best not to try to hard looking for specific conclusions concerning multiverse models, and simply try understand the science of physics and cosmology without religious presuppositions.

I'm not trying to draw conclusions, necessarily, but I am trying to understand these concepts more fully. And, in this process, im definitely trying to reconcile my existing beliefs about my Christian God with what I'm learning. That's precisely what this exercise is about for me.

[JardinPrayer]

As far as I am aware, there is no way to test 2 and 3; all we have knowledge of is *this* universe, so IMO we should simply do our best to live within it and not worry about what we cannot change.

I do appreciate that thought, and it does help me keep a bit of perspective. Thank you! This quest for understanding is a pretty big deal for me right now. I don't want my faith to be naive, rather informed. I do recognize that there is a great deal of mystery in God as well as the universe, and that's okay with me. But, we do know some things in physics and we have theorized some more things which have captured my interest as I move through this soul-searching season of my life. You suggested we should do our best to live within our known universe. Right now, my best is pretty lame, so I'm looking for deeper understanding and trying to keep my head above the waves, so to speak.

[Jedidiah]

Most models remain hypothetical as to the nature and relationship between the universe, but all propose the multiverse likely contain many universes.

Actually all models remain hypothetical, as there is no concrete evidence for the existence of the multiverse.

[Tassman]

Actually all models remain hypothetical, as there is no concrete evidence for the existence of the multiverse.

This doesn't mean there's no evidence supporting them. Science usually evaluates several models at a time and for each hypothetical model to survive it must be consistent with other established theories. And to date several models, e.g. inflationary theory, lead to a multiverse.