Couples of Questions

[AP930]

I'm a bit confused on a few passages in the Gospels. In John 1, the Jews are asking John whether he is the Christ, Elijah, or Prophet.
They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?"
He said, "I am not."
"Are you the Prophet?"
He answered, "No."
(John 1:21)

Matthew says:
10The disciples asked him, "Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?"

11Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." 13Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist. (Matthew 17:10-13)

So what exactly do the passages mean? And is there any prophecy in the Bible for the 'second Elijah'?

And my other question:
Is there any Biblical evidence for a Pre-Tribulation Rapture? Are there passages in the Bible that point for or against this?

Thanks in advance and God Bless!

[National Intelligence Director Phoenix]

I'm a bit confused on a few passages in the Gospels. In John 1, the Jews are asking John whether he is the Christ, Elijah, or Prophet.
They asked him, "Then who are you? Are you Elijah?"
He said, "I am not."
"Are you the Prophet?"
He answered, "No."
(John 1:21)

Matthew says:
10The disciples asked him, "Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?"

11Jesus replied, "To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." 13Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist. (Matthew 17:10-13)

So what exactly do the passages mean? And is there any prophecy in the Bible for the 'second Elijah'?

And my other question:
Is there any Biblical evidence for a Pre-Tribulation Rapture? Are there passages in the Bible that point for or against this?

Thanks in advance and God Bless!

For the first question, John the Baptist was the Elijah to come but he was NOT Elijah. He was not a reincarnation of the prophet walking around. He was the one in the spirit of Elijah.

For the pre-trib rapture, I'll say I dropped that theory a long time ago. I would suggest though to be fair, go to the eschatology forum and start a thread on such a question. My good friend, Bill The Cat, is a pre-tribulationist who I believe would give you a good answer, although it wouldn't be agreed with by me and some others on here.

However, I would say to take all the answers you get and do your own study and decide for yourself.

Hope this helps!

[AP930]

Much thanks! I've still got a few questions.

The first one deals with Moses and the water from the rock:

The whole Israelite community set out from the Desert of Sin, traveling from place to place as the LORD commanded. They camped at Rephidim, but there was no water for the people to drink. 2 So they quarreled with Moses and said, "Give us water to drink."
Moses replied, "Why do you quarrel with me? Why do you put the LORD to the test?"
3 But the people were thirsty for water there, and they grumbled against Moses. They said, "Why did you bring us up out of Egypt to make us and our children and livestock die of thirst?"

4 Then Moses cried out to the LORD, "What am I to do with these people? They are almost ready to stone me."

5 The LORD answered Moses, "Walk on ahead of the people. Take with you some of the elders of Israel and take in your hand the staff with which you struck the Nile, and go. 6 I will stand there before you by the rock at Horeb. Strike the rock, and water will come out of it for the people to drink." So Moses did this in the sight of the elders of Israel. 7 And he called the place Massah and Meribah because the Israelites quarreled and because they tested the LORD saying, "Is the LORD among us or not?" (Numbers 20:1-7 NIV) emphasis added

Exodus says that God told Moses to strike the rock. However Numbers says that the Lord told Moses to speak to the rock:

In the first month the whole Israelite community arrived at the Desert of Zin, and they stayed at Kadesh. There Miriam died and was buried.
2 Now there was no water for the community, and the people gathered in opposition to Moses and Aaron. 3 They quarreled with Moses and said, "If only we had died when our brothers fell dead before the LORD! 4 Why did you bring the LORD's community into this desert, that we and our livestock should die here? 5 Why did you bring us up out of Egypt to this terrible place? It has no grain or figs, grapevines or pomegranates. And there is no water to drink!"

6 Moses and Aaron went from the assembly to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting and fell facedown, and the glory of the LORD appeared to them. 7 The LORD said to Moses, 8 "Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink."

9 So Moses took the staff from the LORD's presence, just as he commanded him. 10 He and Aaron gathered the assembly together in front of the rock and Moses said to them, "Listen, you rebels, must we bring you water out of this rock?" 11 Then Moses raised his arm and struck the rock twice with his staff. Water gushed out, and the community and their livestock drank.

12 But the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "Because you did not trust in me enough to honor me as holy in the sight of the Israelites, you will not bring this community into the land I give them."

13 These were the waters of Meribah, where the Israelites quarreled with the LORD and where he showed himself holy among them.
(Numbers 20:1-13 NIV) emphasis added

So what did God say to Moses? Is this a contradiction?

The other question concerns a passage in Joshua:

Joshua said to the people, "You are not able to serve the LORD. He is a holy God; he is a jealous God. He will not forgive your rebellion and your sins. 20 If you forsake the LORD and serve foreign gods, he will turn and bring disaster on you and make an end of you, after he has been good to you." (Joshua 23:19-20 NIV)

Will God forgive them or not?

Thanks,

God Bless!

[National Intelligence Director Phoenix]

The first question is two different incidents so two different rocks.

The second question? God will forgive any who repent.

Hope this helps!

[AP930]

And my last question. The Bible says that the people in the OT were saved by God because of their faith in Him. Jesus Christ paid for our sins yet who paid for their sins? Were they saved without the sacrifice of Christ? If so, why is that no longer the case? I know Christ died for us all and paid for sins and we are justified by faith but I am a bit confused at this one concept.

Thanks.

God Bless.

[National Intelligence Director Phoenix]

And my last question. The Bible says that the people in the OT were saved by God because of their faith in Him. Jesus Christ paid for our sins yet who paid for their sins? Were they saved without the sacrifice of Christ? If so, why is that no longer the case? I know Christ died for us all and paid for sins and we are justified by faith but I am a bit confused at this one concept.

Thanks.

God Bless.

Thanks for the question!

It's quite simple really. Hebrews speaks of Moses who chose to suffer for the cause of Christ. These people in the past with animal sacrifices looked forward to the sacrifice that was to come. As they looked forward in faith to the Christ to come, they are saved by their faith just as much as we are as we look back.

I don't believe the plan of salvation ever changed. It's always been by grace through faith. Some get saved looking forward. Others are saved looking back.

Hope this helps!

[AP930]

No Ammonite or Moabite or any of his descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD, even down to the tenth generation. 4 For they did not come to meet you with bread and water on your way when you came out of Egypt, and they hired Balaam son of Beor from Pethor in Aram Naharaim [b] to pronounce a curse on you. 5 However, the LORD your God would not listen to Balaam but turned the curse into a blessing for you, because the LORD your God loves you. 6 Do not seek a treaty of friendship with them as long as you live. (Deuteronomy 23:3-6 NIV)

How were non-Jews saved? Especially Moabites, Ammonites, and Canaanites?
Ruth herself was a Moabite.

Is the assembly of the Lord a place of worship? Or is it a counsel that makes decisions? A bit confused!

Thanks,
God Bless

[National Intelligence Director Phoenix]

No Ammonite or Moabite or any of his descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD, even down to the tenth generation. 4 For they did not come to meet you with bread and water on your way when you came out of Egypt, and they hired Balaam son of Beor from Pethor in Aram Naharaim [b] to pronounce a curse on you. 5 However, the LORD your God would not listen to Balaam but turned the curse into a blessing for you, because the LORD your God loves you. 6 Do not seek a treaty of friendship with them as long as you live. (Deuteronomy 23:3-6 NIV)

How were non-Jews saved? Especially Moabites, Ammonites, and Canaanites?
Ruth herself was a Moabite.

Is the assembly of the Lord a place of worship? Or is it a counsel that makes decisions? A bit confused!

Thanks,
God Bless

I would say it was a place of worship.

How were they saved? The same way you and I are. They were saved by grace through faith. Check how the Ninevites were considered saved.

Israel was also to be a nation of priests for those outside of Israel. Being forbidden to enter the temple did not mean that one was entirely cut off from the covenant of Israel.

[AP930]

What about the "do not seek friendship nor treaty with them"?

[AP930]

Here are a few passages that I am confused about concerning the equality of women in the Bible:

Leviticus 27:3-7 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2027:3-7;&version=31;)

1 Timothy 2:11-12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%202:11-12;&version=31;)

while I was still searching
but not finding—
I found one upright man among a thousand,
but not one upright woman among them all. (Ecclesiastes 7:28) NIV

Much thanks. I know the Bible was used to liberate woman from the bondages of society in the days of Jesus. However, why were the Jewish women so looked down upon? I know that God gives gifts to both men and woman (except for being a pastor). There are many women prophetesses and servants of Christ and even a mention of one being an apostle. I just have a bit of difficulty with these verses.

Much thanks,
God bless

[National Intelligence Director Phoenix]

What about the "do not seek friendship nor treaty with them"?

Because you shouldn't. You weren't to be peaceful with the Canaanites in the land because you'd be drawn into their practices.

[National Intelligence Director Phoenix]

Here are a few passages that I am confused about concerning the equality of women in the Bible:

Leviticus 27:3-7 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2027:3-7;&version=31;)

1 Timothy 2:11-12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%202:11-12;&version=31;)

while I was still searching
but not finding—
I found one upright man among a thousand,
but not one upright woman among them all. (Ecclesiastes 7:28) NIV

Much thanks. I know the Bible was used to liberate woman from the bondages of society in the days of Jesus. However, why were the Jewish women so looked down upon? I know that God gives gifts to both men and woman (except for being a pastor). There are many women prophetesses and servants of Christ and even a mention of one being an apostle. I just have a bit of difficulty with these verses.

Much thanks,
God bless

Ontologically, men and women are equal.

They are not in function though. I see that largely in Leviticus. A man can do more physical work in the tabernacle.

I see that in 1 Timothy also. Part of it was the social status, but I believe this could also be that men are the leaders of the church and that God is seen as the Father for a reason. I do believe it's the role of men to lead the church. Women have their role, but the men are to lead. Again, this only shows functional difference. Not ontological difference.

As for Ecclesiastes, it could be the 1,000 women refer to his wives and concubines. Not to women in general.

Hope this helps!