Why Should We Believe The Quran Is The True Word Of God??

[Good News Man]

Muslims like to call the Quran, the Word of their god Allah? Why should anyone believe it to be the Word of the one True God - Jehovah???

[technomage]

Muslims like to call the Quran, the Word of their god Allah? Why should anyone believe it to be the Word of the one True God - Jehovah???

For precisely the same reason Christians accept the Bible as the word of Jehovah--because it says it is.

What? That's not a reason?

That sword cuts two ways, GNM.

[Good News Man]

For precisely the same reason Christians accept the Bible as the word of Jehovah--because it says it is.

What? That's not a reason?

That sword cuts two ways, GNM.


Christians have many other reasons why they can believe the Bible is the true Word of Jehovah God. Multiplies Fulfilled prophecies is one of them.

Are there any Muslims who can tell us why they think the Quran is the true Word of God, other than because it says it is or that some Imman says it is???

[moose7237]

Christians have many other reasons why they can believe the Bible is the true Word of Jehovah God. Multiplies Fulfilled prophecies is one of them.

Are there any Muslims who can tell us why they think the Quran is the true Word of God, other than because it says it is or that some Imman says it is???

Hello and Peace be to you,

Understanding that Muhammad was an illiterate, he wrote the best piece of poetry in Arabia. Back in that time poetry was very popular amongst the people. Also there are fulfilled prophecies in the Quran, such as the pharoahs body, and the scientific signs in the Quran. Also the Quran teaches how to treat women, slaves, and non-muslims in a just way.

[technomage]

Hello and Peace be to you,

W'salaam aleiekum, Moose,


Understanding that Muhammad was an illiterate, he wrote the best piece of poetry in Arabia. Back in that time poetry was very popular amongst the people.

Literacy (or a lack of it) is no great hinderance to writing poetry--some of the best poets of the world traditions, both Eastern and Western, have been illiterate. Indeed, from what little we know of the Jahili poets, many of them were illiterate.


Also there are fulfilled prophecies in the Quran, such as the pharoahs body, and the scientific signs in the Quran.

Christians claim that the Bible contains fulfilled prophecies, and that the Bible contradicts the Quran, which they claim is the invention of man, not God. Muslims claim that the Bible contains fulfilled prophecies, and that the Quran contradicts the Bible, which was corrupted by men.

It seem to me that both make the same claims. And it also seems to me that both Bible and Quran have errors. Therefore, if I am to reject one on that basis, then I must reject both.

[moose7237]

W'salaam aleiekum, Moose,



Literacy (or a lack of it) is no great hinderance to writing poetry--some of the best poets of the world traditions, both Eastern and Western, have been illiterate. Indeed, from what little we know of the Jahili poets, many of them were illiterate.



Christians claim that the Bible contains fulfilled prophecies, and that the Bible contradicts the Quran, which they claim is the invention of man, not God. Muslims claim that the Bible contains fulfilled prophecies, and that the Quran contradicts the Bible, which was corrupted by men.

It seem to me that both make the same claims. And it also seems to me that both Bible and Quran have errors. Therefore, if I am to reject one on that basis, then I must reject both.


Salam Wal Rahma brother,

Oh, O I didn't know that most of the Jahili poets were illiterate. That's something new.

What errors do you see in the Quran, maybe I can help you with those if you would like. Take care.

[technomage]

Salam Wal Rahma brother,

I thank you for the honor, but I am not sure I deserve the accolade. While I do submit (salma) to the will of God to the best of my ability, I do not follow the religion of al-Islam, and I cannot confess the second half of the Shahada.


Oh, O I didn't know that most of the Jahili poets were illiterate. That's something new.

Before Muhammad (may he have peace), and even for many years after his death, literacy simply wasn't very common among the Arab tribes. Indeed, even today there are people of the tribes who see only one book during their life. This is, of course, not common in the cities, but among the badawi (those who dwell in the desert), it is not unknown.

But literacy is only useful in writing the poetry down, not in creating it. Taliesin, often credited as the greatest poet of Wales, was not literate--his works were not written down until some 400 years after his death.


What errors do you see in the Quran, maybe I can help you with those if you would like.

The most fundamental issues I have with the Quran deal more with issues of justice, rather than specific errors. Though I see the justice of jizya, I cannot in good conscience exact sahgiroon of those who do not believe. Though I acknowledge the necessity of The Day, I refuse to stop praying for those who do not believe.

Al-Islam is the path of men. Before Muhammad was in his grave for thirty years, al-Islam was split into sects, despite the clear commandment "As for those who sunder their religion and become schismatics, no concern at all hast thou with them."

Moose, I am honored to call you brother, for we both seek the will of God. So did Muhammad, in his day. But despite what you have been taught by the Imam, and despite what I was taught as a child by the Christian pastors, Muhammad was not inspired by the Devil (what I was taught), nor by God (what you were taught). Muhammad, instead, reached from his own soul and and brought out a creation of beauty and majesty ... but one flawed by his limitations, as any work I would write would be flawed by my own limitation.

That statement is contrary to your beliefs, I know--and I apologize for contradicting what you earnestly and sincerely believe. But sometimes we must be confronted with the errors in our thinking to allow us to break free from those errors.

[moose7237]

I thank you for the honor, but I am not sure I deserve the accolade. While I do submit (salma) to the will of God to the best of my ability, I do not follow the religion of al-Islam, and I cannot confess the second half of the Shahada.



Before Muhammad (may he have peace), and even for many years after his death, literacy simply wasn't very common among the Arab tribes. Indeed, even today there are people of the tribes who see only one book during their life. This is, of course, not common in the cities, but among the badawi (those who dwell in the desert), it is not unknown.

But literacy is only useful in writing the poetry down, not in creating it. Taliesin, often credited as the greatest poet of Wales, was not literate--his works were not written down until some 400 years after his death.



The most fundamental issues I have with the Quran deal more with issues of justice, rather than specific errors. Though I see the justice of jizya, I cannot in good conscience exact sahgiroon of those who do not believe. Though I acknowledge the necessity of The Day, I refuse to stop praying for those who do not believe.

Al-Islam is the path of men. Before Muhammad was in his grave for thirty years, al-Islam was split into sects, despite the clear commandment "As for those who sunder their religion and become schismatics, no concern at all hast thou with them."

Moose, I am honored to call you brother, for we both seek the will of God. So did Muhammad, in his day. But despite what you have been taught by the Imam, and despite what I was taught as a child by the Christian pastors, Muhammad was not inspired by the Devil (what I was taught), nor by God (what you were taught). Muhammad, instead, reached from his own soul and and brought out a creation of beauty and majesty ... but one flawed by his limitations, as any work I would write would be flawed by my own limitation.

That statement is contrary to your beliefs, I know--and I apologize for contradicting what you earnestly and sincerely believe. But sometimes we must be confronted with the errors in our thinking to allow us to break free from those errors.


Wasalam Wal Rahma,

Brother I do respect your view very much, and I am happy that you do pray for the unbelievers and that you do believe in God. Now you did say that Muhammad was not inspired by God, the problem with that is, Allah is the primary narrator of the Quran. So if Muhammad was not inspired nor did receive revelations from the Quran, then he either plagarized it, or he made up Allah's words. Now there are a lot of things that I have personally read that have proved the divineness of the Quran. From what I know, professors have read text books based on the Quran in science. The Quran mentions a miracle of God that still exists today, that being the ZamZam well. There are fulfilled prophecies in the Quran. I don't think that this is a book that is man's words. But we can both agree to disagree here. I wish you the very best in trying to please God and may he reward you and your family with blessings and Peace.

Take care my brother.

[technomage]

Peace and mercy to you,


Brother I do respect your view very much, and I am happy that you do pray for the unbelievers and that you do believe in God. Now you did say that Muhammad was not inspired by God, the problem with that is, Allah is the primary narrator of the Quran.

Brother, this is what is taught in the masajids ... and it is sincerely believed by those who teach it, and those who hear it. It was sincerely believed by Muhammad (pbuh) himself.

But what if it is incorrect?

Now, please note that I do not ask "What if it is a lie." I know, with all my heart, that Muhammad sincerely believed what he taught. But if he was incorrect in his beliefs, I tell you from my heart, that does NOT mean that the Quran is useless!

I hold a similar view of the Bible. If I came to the conclusion that the Injil was accurate, then I would be forced to conclude that Jesus was a false prophet. He prophesied that He would return in power and glory and establish the Kingdom of Heaven on earth within the lifetime of His disciples ... that the generation he spoke of would not pass away before He returned. Obviously this did not happen, though some Christians claim that He returned "invisibly," and others claim that He was speaking of the "race" of the Jews, not the generation alive at the time he spoke.

Moose, my brother, I have yet to present much of anything in the way of evidence ... and for that I apologize. Such a presentation would be long, involved, rigorous, and very complicated. Now, I am willing to do so if you wish, but such a discussion would require a substantial commitment of time and effort from both of us.

And there is an additional consideration. While I disagree that the Quran is actually the word of God, I most heartily affirm that some who walk the path of al-Islam do find God. Not all, I fear, but God is ever merciful, and is willing that any who seek Him with a whole heart may find Him, though sometimes after many perils and trials.

This is why it doesn't trouble me if one person follows al-Islam, and another follows Christianity, or another follows Wicca, or Asatru, or whatever path--even atheism. God seeks out those whom He will, and it is my sincere belief that He wants all to be with Him in Paradise. Moose, my brother, God cannot fail in His will.

This is probably more than a bit disjointed, and I apologize: in this life, I bear some physical problems that cause me a measure of discomfort, and today has not been the best of days. But I encourage you, continue to seek God, even as I do. God is not found in the pages of any book--even in books as sublime the Quran or the Injil or the Tawrah. God is found in our hearts--all of our hearts.

May it be well with you, my brother, and may God, the ever merciful, show you favor.

[jason]

I would not trust it as what it claims to be because of the satanic verses and more importantly because of the islamic doctrine of abrogation.

Either of these render the text worthless as a trustworthy document.

Jason

[jason]

and the scientific signs in the Quran.
These are not actually worth anything, having looked at them. Muslims put the YEC to shame on this one.


Also the Quran teaches how to treat women, slaves, and non-muslims in a just way.
I see we are using different definitions of just. The Jizya is fundamentally oppressive, and Islams treatment of women leaves more than a little bit to be desired. And slaves, well, what can I say, the last places in the world to still have chattel slavery are islamic.

Jason

[technomage]

The Jizya is fundamentally oppressive....

Actually, the Jizya is less than the tax and "tithe" that Muslims pay under Shariyah law--frequently, significantly less. It's the sahgiroon ("subdual") that I find truly onerous.

[moose7237]

Peace and mercy to you,



Brother, this is what is taught in the masajids ... and it is sincerely believed by those who teach it, and those who hear it. It was sincerely believed by Muhammad (pbuh) himself.

But what if it is incorrect?

Now, please note that I do not ask "What if it is a lie." I know, with all my heart, that Muhammad sincerely believed what he taught. But if he was incorrect in his beliefs, I tell you from my heart, that does NOT mean that the Quran is useless!

I hold a similar view of the Bible. If I came to the conclusion that the Injil was accurate, then I would be forced to conclude that Jesus was a false prophet. He prophesied that He would return in power and glory and establish the Kingdom of Heaven on earth within the lifetime of His disciples ... that the generation he spoke of would not pass away before He returned. Obviously this did not happen, though some Christians claim that He returned "invisibly," and others claim that He was speaking of the "race" of the Jews, not the generation alive at the time he spoke.

Moose, my brother, I have yet to present much of anything in the way of evidence ... and for that I apologize. Such a presentation would be long, involved, rigorous, and very complicated. Now, I am willing to do so if you wish, but such a discussion would require a substantial commitment of time and effort from both of us.

And there is an additional consideration. While I disagree that the Quran is actually the word of God, I most heartily affirm that some who walk the path of al-Islam do find God. Not all, I fear, but God is ever merciful, and is willing that any who seek Him with a whole heart may find Him, though sometimes after many perils and trials.

This is why it doesn't trouble me if one person follows al-Islam, and another follows Christianity, or another follows Wicca, or Asatru, or whatever path--even atheism. God seeks out those whom He will, and it is my sincere belief that He wants all to be with Him in Paradise. Moose, my brother, God cannot fail in His will.

This is probably more than a bit disjointed, and I apologize: in this life, I bear some physical problems that cause me a measure of discomfort, and today has not been the best of days. But I encourage you, continue to seek God, even as I do. God is not found in the pages of any book--even in books as sublime the Quran or the Injil or the Tawrah. God is found in our hearts--all of our hearts.

May it be well with you, my brother, and may God, the ever merciful, show you favor.


Salam Wal Rahma my brother from indeed another Mother :wink:

I would be interested in a discussion of the Quran, it would educate me and hopefully increase my faith. So I have only to benefit. But if I can request, it be done in about 2 weeks since I am quite busy, will not be on very often, just little posts here and there, but our discussion seems like it will take a while. If God is willing, after 2 weeks I will be free and I can have a nice discussion. I respect your view of Islam. I hope you will do well and may God help you when you need it and may he aid to your discomfort.

[moose7237]

These are not actually worth anything, having looked at them. Muslims put the YEC to shame on this one.


I see we are using different definitions of just. The Jizya is fundamentally oppressive, and Islams treatment of women leaves more than a little bit to be desired. And slaves, well, what can I say, the last places in the world to still have chattel slavery are islamic.

Jason


Hello and Peace be to you,

Firstly, an embryology professor testified to the verses in the Quran and was quite amazed, and another professor of Archaeology I think also testified to the science in the Quran. Verily you have your opinion of the Quran, I can try to change it but you don't want to change. I think the professors having much knowledge in their respected fields find the Quran to be a miracle, I don't see why you can't either.

No the Jizya was not oppressive. If you didn't have the money you didn't have to pay until you had the money, and it was a tax to practice your religion in a Muslim state and get protection from that Muslim state. Go wikipedia it and tell me that I'm lying. What happens when you don't pay taxes in America, I'm sure you don't go scott free. Islam treats women way better than the bible does, I would definitley like you to argue that. I don't care about what these muslim hypocrites do, give me quran verses about what is unjust about slavery. The bible shows no freedom towards slavery, it views slaves as eternal property of the master.

[moose7237]

I would not trust it as what it claims to be because of the satanic verses and more importantly because of the islamic doctrine of abrogation.

Either of these render the text worthless as a trustworthy document.

Jason


Hello and Peace be to you,

Friend show me some these abrogated and satanic verses.

[jason]

Friend show me some these abrogated and satanic verses.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Index/A/abrogation.html

Abrogation is fatal to the reliability of the Koran.

[moose7237]

http://www.answering-islam.org/Index/A/abrogation.html

Abrogation is fatal to the reliability of the Koran.

Hello and Peace be to you,

And here is the rebuttal of those:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/satanic_verses.htm

http://www.submission.org/abrogation.html

[jason]

Umm ... one of the sites you linked too shows the fatal problem the Koran has.


Having said that, let us take the worst case scenario and assume that the lie that was fabricated against the Prophet was true:

"Never did We send an apostle or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire: but God will CANCEL anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and God will confirm (and establish) His Signs: for God is full of Knowledge and Wisdom: That He may make the suggestions thrown in by Satan, but a trial for those in whose hearts is a disease and who are hardened of heart: verily the wrong-doers are in a schism far (from the Truth): And that those on whom knowledge has been bestowed may learn that the (Quran) is the Truth from thy Lord, and that they may believe therein, and their hearts may be made humbly (open) to it: for verily God is the Guide of those who believe, to the Straight Way. Those who reject Faith will not cease to be in doubt concerning (Revelation) until the Hour (of Judgment) comes suddenly upon them, or there comes to them the Penalty of a Day of Disaster. (The Noble Quran, 22:52-55)"


There are several points to notice here:

1- Satan did attempt to throw obstacles in the Prophets' desires in the past, which might have caused them to do and say things that were not inspired by GOD Almighty.

2- GOD Almighty "Cancels anything (vain) that satan throws in." Satan will never prevail, nor will he be able to overpower GOD Almighty's Divine Will.

3- The reason why GOD Almighty allowed satan to temporarily deceive some of the Prophets was to test them and to show them how to overcome satan and his evil.

4- Satan's temptations to Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him never survived in the Noble Quran. None of the "satanic verses" survived in the Noble Quran.
Sorry that is just special pleading. You have no way of knowing if that claim is true, Satan would make exactly such a claim anyway. Which certianly explains much of Mo's experiences.

Jason

[barnasha]

Umm ... one of the sites you linked too shows the fatal problem the Koran has.


4- Satan's temptations to Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him never survived in the Noble Quran. None of the "satanic verses" survived in the Noble Quran.

Sorry that is just special pleading. You have no way of knowing if that claim is true, Satan would make exactly such a claim anyway. Which certianly explains much of Mo's experiences.


If I claim something is true, it does not make it false, and vice versa.

What exactly is the "fatal problem" the Coran has?

[barnasha]

Muslims like to call the Quran, the Word of their god Allah? Why should anyone believe it to be the Word of the one True God - Jehovah???

It is not "the word" of God, it is words of God, i.e. these are words which were revealed to the prophet by God.

God does not need a human language nor prophet to do his will, to "speak" a "word" as we humans see it, the idea that some collection of humans words is somehow "THE WORD of God" is ridiculous, in my view.

to say "the Word of Allah" does not make any sense, what exactly is "the Word" and to what does this proper noun refer?