A Christian Theory of Sexuality

[Muhd]

This thread will seek to establish an overarching theory of sexuality to better understand it and why the Bible says what it says, and to answer some of the toughest questions related to sexuality in our modern world (marriage, masturbation, porn, etc.). It will look at the "why" behind the biblical commands regarding sexuality. By understanding the reasons behind God's laws it will become easier for the Christian to answer tough questions regarding sexuality, and develop a course of action that allows for being godly in our sexually charged modern world. Also, before I get started, I would say that some of this stuff may be strictly from the male perspective, especially when I begin analyzing the sexual drive.

Now, I said we will be looking at the "why", so now I will start off with a "why" question. Why did God create us with a sexual drive? The first reason we have a sexual drive is obvious. That is, we have a sexual drive because then we will reproduce! And reproduce as much as circumstances allow because we enjoy it. God made our sexual drive so we would reproduce, so that we would enjoy our reproduction and populate the earth.

Now let's further examine this sexual drive that God has given us. Please remember that I do not claim to have much knowledge of the female sexual drive, this is about males now, though much of this may apply to women. One of the most important things that I think Christians must understand about the sexual drive is that it grows the more you feed it. That is, sexual activity is addictive. I don't think there is much debate about that, yet Christians often fail to put two and two together. If sexual activity is addictive, that means they can become addicted. Sexual addiction is much like any other addiction. You may start with something small and "innocent", ike checking girls out, letting your eyes linger on bakini-clad women at the beach, looking at ads for undergarments, or watching a movie where the lead actress is far from modest. Somehow many Christian men do these things thinking that they are either innocent or "not that bad". I mean, hey there's no commandment against it, it can't be that bad right? Wrong. These are sexual activities (i.e. you derive sexual enjoyment from them) that will leave you craving for more . The more you look lustfully at women, the more you will crave. Your sexual drive keeps on growing and growing. It doesn't take long for it to escalate into masturbation or porn or sleeping around or a combination of all three. Sure, maybe you can keep your sexual fulfillment strictly to checking women out, but you will always be fighting the urge to do more and more and more. Sure, maybe you feel like you've "vented" some of your sexual drive by masturbating, but the fact is that this relief is only temporary (I think there is actually a study that shows men are more likely to masturbate the day after masturbating then to masturbate after a day where they didn't masturbate). Many people become sexual addicts because they never realized that sexual activities are addictive and dangerous, even as much as drugs. The more people understand that sexual activity is addictive, the more they will realize they must be very cautious with regards to their sexuality. The way which our sexual drive grows and makes us crave more offers valuable insight into God's plan for sexuality.

Why would God create us with such a potent potential for addiction? Well, the answer is that he gives us the proper framework for using our potent sexual drive to power something very good. God has commanded us to find sexual fulfillment with our spouse in a marriage relationship, and with our spouse only. Now, when a man and his wife participate in sexual activities, fulfilling their sexual desires, their sexual drive will grow, and they will crave each other more and more. Ideally, this will drive the couple to be more and more intimate, and to grow in love and devotion to each other. As the couple becomes more and more physically intimate and close, the two become close on an emotional and spiritual level as well. The two are "bonded" as one flesh. There are many positive effects that come as a result of this marriage bond. The sexual drive is used as a tool to learn how to love, how to serve another person selflessly. It also establishes the ideal relationship for raising children: one man and one woman who love each other raising their offspring together (I think studies have shown that single/separated/homosexual parents are not as effective at raising children, judged on likelihood to commit crime and other criteria).

Now I will touch on another "why" question. Why not sexual activity outside of marriage? Why must all of one individual's experience be for one person throughout their entire life? What is so bad about sex outside of marriage? There are probably several reasons. By reserving all of the sexual experience for one person in marriage, the sexual experience is special and it is associated only with one person. This aids in the "bonding" that goes on in marriage that has so many positive benefits. The bonding of sexual intimacy in marriage is greatly weakened when people are sexually active outside of marriage. I can imagine a porn addict thinking when his wife takes off her clothes, "my, but my wife isn't nearly as attractive as that woman I stared at on my computer screen". Or for the masturbation addict on his honeymoon, "Well here we go again, time to have another orgasm. Oh boy this time there is a woman to go with it". You get my point, I hope. For the person who abstains from any sort of sexual activity outside of marriage, he is in an optimal position for having a good marriage. The second reason that people should avoid sexual activity outside of marriage is that people are too liable to get hurt. Broken hearts over break-ups, misunderstandings, false expectations, unexpected pregnancies, etc. But these things are relatively mild consequences, compared to what can happen when your sexual drive gets out of control. There is no guarantee that when you activate and feed your sexual drive there will always be a healthy outlet for all the sexual desire you create in the process. Sexual addictions frequently escalate into something completely unhealthy, even for married people (we will look at why this happens to married people in a moment). The story of Ted Bundy (http://www.pureintimacy.org/gr/intimacy/understanding/a0000082.cfm) is a powerful example of the path of destruction that can result from the escalation of sexual addiction. Ted Bundy went on a long path from soft-core porn to murderous rape because of the power of sexual addiction.

Another why question: why do some people have unhealthy sexual lives even in marriage? Many married men have problems with masturbation, pornography, and sleeping around. How does this happen? Well remember that I said: when you feed your sexual drive it will grow. A married man will theoretically have a enormous sexual appetite from the sexual activity that he has had with his wife (or the other way around, remember that I am a male and have a habit of seeing things from the male perspective). What happens when the wife cuts off sexual intimacy? What happens if a couple fight and they won't be intimate with each other? When a man's healthy source of sexual fulfillment is cut off, he is likely to go looking for other sources. Paul actually talks about this and gives some commands that are, unfortunately, not as well known as other commandments regarding sexuality.

7:1 Now with regard to the issues you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 7:2 But because of immoralities, each man should have relations with his own wife and each woman with her own husband. 7:3 A husband should give to his wife her sexual rights, and likewise a wife to her husband. 7:4 It is not the wife who has the rights to her own body, but the husband. In the same way, it is not the husband who has the rights to his own body, but the wife. 7:5 Do not deprive each other, except by mutual agreement for a specified time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer.
Paul clearly understood that marriage was the only proper place for the fulfillment of sexual desire. Paul says that to avoid sexual immorality (i.e. to avoid unhealthy outlets for sexual desire, like I have been saying), men and women should be married, and they should not deprive each other in their marriage. Married people need to understand that by not giving their spouse what they crave, and thus shutting down the proper outlet for sexuality, they are driving their spouse to sexual immorality (they can resist sexual immorality, but they are so addicted to the sexual experience that it will be incredibly difficult). I would especially give this advice to women; make sure your husband is sexually fulfilled! Let him know that whatever he wants to do with your body he is welcome to do it (a la Paul's command, but within reason of course). The same goes for you husbands out there, but usually the woman tires of sex before the man does. Now please understand that husbands are to treat their wives with love and respect at the same time. Your wife isn't just a sexual object to do what you will with, remember she has feelings, needs, and desires as well.

Well, that's enough for now. I hoped to touch more on the practical application of these ideas, like with dating relationships and such. And to answer hard questions like "what qualifies as lust?" and "how far is too far?". I also wanted to show where homosexuality fits in the picture. But it's getting late, so I will give you this portion to chew on and get to the rest later.

[Abykale]

:thumb:

[Soyeong]

I think Puritans are the ones who gave Christians the stereotype of being sexually repressed, but I think they had it wrong. Looking at the Song of Solomon, it is clear that sexuality is a gift from God for us to enjoy. God was even kind enough to provide us with a handbook containing, among other things, the best circumstances for us to enjoy it. However, too much of a good thing becomes bad, so it included limitations on it for our own good.

[DawnBat]

This thread will seek to establish an overarching theory of sexuality to better understand it and why the Bible says what it says, and to answer some of the toughest questions related to sexuality in our modern world (marriage, masturbation, porn, etc.)..

I hope you don't mind if I interact with it a bit. If you like, I could take my interactions to another thread, but I haven't time to do anything original, so I'd rather just respond to the source material here.

Also note, I am not trying to get in an argument. I'm sort of thinking out loud, if you like.

Now, I said we will be looking at the "why", so now I will start off with a "why" question. Why did God create us with a sexual drive? The first reason we have a sexual drive is obvious. That is, we have a sexual drive because then we will reproduce!

Ah, you said "the first." Good. I'd missed that, and was a bit miffed that sex had been reduced to reproduction. Just goes to show I read too fast.


Now let's further examine this sexual drive that God has given us. Please remember that I do not claim to have much knowledge of the female sexual drive, this is about males now, though much of this may apply to women.


I think this applies to women, at least to some degree. I was shocked to find out that women do in fact have sex drives, and enjoy and even want sex, but apparantly it's true.

I've been told several times that during developement, several connections in the male brain are cut off, so that different parts of the brain can come into more distinct focus. Not sure if this is true, but from what I understand, the female sex drive seems to bear this out. It's not that it doesn't exist, it's just that it is so connected and attuned to everything else about the woman that it is more easily pushed or changed by stress, depression, happiness, whatever.

Also there was a study done on Christian women in a book I used in a project a year or so back that indicated that women aren't that far behind men in terms of sex drive. Basically, one of the figures it came up with worked like this: if you make a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being no sex drive whatsoever, and 10 being extreme, most women are five, and most men are six. So, the gap is pretty small.

Many people become sexual addicts because they never realized that sexual activities are addictive and dangerous, even as much as drugs.

I'm told that sex ranks somewhere around the level of heroin as far as addictiveness goes. Once again, this is said to be scientific research, and once again I don't have any references to back it up.

Another why question: why do some people have unhealthy sexual lives even in marriage? Many married men have problems with masturbation, pornography, and sleeping around. How does this happen? Well remember that I said: when you feed your sexual drive it will grow. A married man will theoretically have a enormous sexual appetite from the sexual activity that he has had with his wife (or the other way around, remember that I am a male and have a habit of seeing things from the male perspective). What happens when the wife cuts off sexual intimacy? What happens if a couple fight and they won't be intimate with each other? When a man's healthy source of sexual fulfillment is cut off, he is likely to go looking for other sources. Paul actually talks about this and gives some commands that are, unfortunately, not as well known as other commandments regarding sexuality.


This avenue of thought has never occured to me before. I am so going to pursue it.


7:1 Now with regard to the issues you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 7:2 But because of immoralities, each man should have relations with his own wife and each woman with her own husband. 7:3 A husband should give to his wife her sexual rights, and likewise a wife to her husband. 7:4 It is not the wife who has the rights to her own body, but the husband. In the same way, it is not the husband who has the rights to his own body, but the wife. 7:5 Do not deprive each other, except by mutual agreement for a specified time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer.
Paul clearly understood that marriage was the only proper place for the fulfillment of sexual desire. Paul says that to avoid sexual immorality (i.e. to avoid unhealthy outlets for sexual desire, like I have been saying), men and women should be married, and they should not deprive each other in their marriage. Married people need to understand that by not giving their spouse what they crave, and thus shutting down the proper outlet for sexuality, they are driving their spouse to sexual immorality (they can resist sexual immorality, but they are so addicted to the sexual experience that it will be incredibly difficult).

I have a friend who worked with drug-addicted youth, and he said, basically, that you cannot escape an addiction negatively. You have to find something else to fill the role of whatever you were addicted to.

I look forward to seeing more.

[Barry Desborough]

I'd recommend Buss (http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/Group/BussLAB/DBPublications.htm#SelectedPapers).

[God_is_personal]

Soyeong's > "I think Puritans are the ones who gave Christians the stereotype of being sexually repressed, but I think they had it wrong. Looking at the Song of Solomon, it is clear that sexuality is a gift from God for us to enjoy. God was even kind enough to provide us with a handbook containing, among other things, the best circumstances for us to enjoy it. However, too much of a good thing becomes bad, so it included limitations on it for our own good."

Thank you, Soyeong; I like your simple, concise, caring help.

If Puritans were "repressed"...IF, I say...maybe feeling they were wrong to act on their sexual drives...if they were repressing themselves, this would mean they had drives that were pushing them and not in control...if they were fighting them. Fighting a drive is not the solution. God can give you control which does not have you struggling. So, if you have something you feel you have to fight, I'd say just repressing it is NOT solving my problem; I need for God to change me so that dominating and nagging stuff, which won't take no for an answer, can't be messing in me > needs to be removed and then prevented by God's power of love. God's love does not drive and force us and manipulate us; so I'd say a wrong one invisible (consider Ephesians 2:2) is pushing us and trying to overpower us, when sexual stuff keeps on nagging and harrassing > THAT's not about pleasure and enjoyment and love and reproduction, I am willing to consider.

A truly sexual drive is for loving (and is humble in love...not forcing you), and this sexual drive of love first steers you to relate lovingly with each other, all the time...so that you can reproduce children who are of this love. As you develop in your love, God's love has you desiring to share this love with others, and for THIS reason you want to have children with whom to share your love. And THIS is controlled, NOT mastering you and overpowering you, but God's love's moving is gentle and kind and considerate and not having you just USING someone or something for pleasure. Pleasure is not the goal of LOVE's sexual development in a relationship. God's love is so beautifully pure and wondrous in Heaven's pleasantness, that sexual pleasure can be an enjoyment, but not much by comparison. And, YES, God is the One who "gives us richly all things to enjoy", we do have through Paul in 1 Timothy 6:17. But there is balance...learning to tell the diff between how lust will manipulate and drive us, versus how the peace of God rules us > "And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body, and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

So, in a Christian marriage, we have the job of learning to tell the diff between love and lust. Lust is dominating, therefore dictatorial and oppressive. So it is wrong, and of the evil one trying to take over. And that wrong spirit, once sprung, can then degrade a person into weakness for arguing, overeating, depression, and other oppressive things.

I have seen the connection between pleasure-seeking masturbation, and how then I can suffer pain later because of the nasty lousy spirit driving me for pleasure, but then...later...I have only that nasty lousy driving unsatisfied spirit. God's love satisfies me first, with perfect contentment in nicely quiet sweet sensitive enjoyment with Him; and then who could care less about mere sexual pleasure, I say? God's love even feels so better than romantic and sexual stuff. So, I'd say, give yourself to God, first; then see how He takes care of you and your relating in His love.

[Muhd]

I think Puritans are the ones who gave Christians the stereotype of being sexually repressed, but I think they had it wrong. Looking at the Song of Solomon, it is clear that sexuality is a gift from God for us to enjoy. God was even kind enough to provide us with a handbook containing, among other things, the best circumstances for us to enjoy it. However, too much of a good thing becomes bad, so it included limitations on it for our own good.Other Christian groups in history have given Christianity an anti-sex stereotype, and there are still many Christians today who believe that our sexuality should be kept on a short leash. This is true to some extent, but between a man and his wife there should not be very much suppression of sexual desire. This leads to all sorts of bad things, as I have already stated.

[Muhd]

I hope you don't mind if I interact with it a bit. If you like, I could take my interactions to another thread, but I haven't time to do anything original, so I'd rather just respond to the source material here.

Also note, I am not trying to get in an argument. I'm sort of thinking out loud, if you like.Oh. Just so everyone knows I'm totally open to posts, commentary, etc. In fact, I was a bit saddened by the sparse amount of input the first few days after the OP.



Ah, you said "the first." Good. I'd missed that, and was a bit miffed that sex had been reduced to reproduction. Just goes to show I read too fast.



I think this applies to women, at least to some degree. I was shocked to find out that women do in fact have sex drives, and enjoy and even want sex, but apparantly it's true.

I've been told several times that during developement, several connections in the male brain are cut off, so that different parts of the brain can come into more distinct focus. Not sure if this is true, but from what I understand, the female sex drive seems to bear this out. It's not that it doesn't exist, it's just that it is so connected and attuned to everything else about the woman that it is more easily pushed or changed by stress, depression, happiness, whatever.

Also there was a study done on Christian women in a book I used in a project a year or so back that indicated that women aren't that far behind men in terms of sex drive. Basically, one of the figures it came up with worked like this: if you make a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being no sex drive whatsoever, and 10 being extreme, most women are five, and most men are six. So, the gap is pretty small.That makes sense to me. If women didn't have any desire for it then that would make things very difficult for the man. There are, unfortunately, married women who try to use sex as some sort of bargaining chip, since they know their that they don't want it as much as their spouse (or they are just willing to deprive themselves for more power in the relationship). Sex in marriage should be a given that cannot be changed without mutual consent (as I think 1 Corinthians states). Otherwise one partner will burn with sexual desire and have extreme temptation to satisfy it in some harmful way.

IIRC, Men may tend to want sex with greater frequency (even though drive for sex in general may be close) due to natural sperm production cycles. According to this cycle a man would desire orgasm every three days. I think there are many wifes who do not want sex as often as their husbands do, but I think the best solution is for the wife to see that she is loving her husband by satisfying this desire, and that it will hope their relationship overall.

I'm told that sex ranks somewhere around the level of heroin as far as addictiveness goes. Once again, this is said to be scientific research, and once again I don't have any references to back it up.



This avenue of thought has never occured to me before. I am so going to pursue it.Well, I'm glad I could shed new light on the issue for you. It doesn't even have to be the wife depriving the man. It could really be anything that stops them from being sexually intimate. (did I say that already?) There could be other reasons for sexual addictions of course, I haven't even talked about much. I will talk about the other reason I suspect is probably mostly responsible for the unhealthy sexual behavior that is going on, even in marriage.



I have a friend who worked with drug-addicted youth, and he said, basically, that you cannot escape an addiction negatively. You have to find something else to fill the role of whatever you were addicted to.Please note that I do not necessarily use addiction to mean a negative addiction. A man should be addicted to sexual intimacy with his wife and vice versa. But yeah for single people they do need to end any sexual addiction they have as much as possible. Stopping all sexually pleasing activity will eventually reduce the sexual drive to a level that is easily controlled.

I look forward to seeing more.Well, Thanks.

I hope to be adding more soon, but the holidays make it hard for me to get work done, since there is so much going on.

[Muhd]

Soyeong's > "I think Puritans are the ones who gave Christians the stereotype of being sexually repressed, but I think they had it wrong. Looking at the Song of Solomon, it is clear that sexuality is a gift from God for us to enjoy. God was even kind enough to provide us with a handbook containing, among other things, the best circumstances for us to enjoy it. However, too much of a good thing becomes bad, so it included limitations on it for our own good."

Thank you, Soyeong; I like your simple, concise, caring help.

If Puritans were "repressed"...IF, I say...maybe feeling they were wrong to act on their sexual drives...if they were repressing themselves, this would mean they had drives that were pushing them and not in control...if they were fighting them. Fighting a drive is not the solution. God can give you control which does not have you struggling. So, if you have something you feel you have to fight, I'd say just repressing it is NOT solving my problem; I need for God to change me so that dominating and nagging stuff, which won't take no for an answer, can't be messing in me > needs to be removed and then prevented by God's power of love. God's love does not drive and force us and manipulate us; so I'd say a wrong one invisible (consider Ephesians 2:2) is pushing us and trying to overpower us, when sexual stuff keeps on nagging and harrassing > THAT's not about pleasure and enjoyment and love and reproduction, I am willing to consider.

A truly sexual drive is for loving (and is humble in love...not forcing you), and this sexual drive of love first steers you to relate lovingly with each other, all the time...so that you can reproduce children who are of this love. As you develop in your love, God's love has you desiring to share this love with others, and for THIS reason you want to have children with whom to share your love. And THIS is controlled, NOT mastering you and overpowering you, but God's love's moving is gentle and kind and considerate and not having you just USING someone or something for pleasure. Pleasure is not the goal of LOVE's sexual development in a relationship. God's love is so beautifully pure and wondrous in Heaven's pleasantness, that sexual pleasure can be an enjoyment, but not much by comparison. And, YES, God is the One who "gives us richly all things to enjoy", we do have through Paul in 1 Timothy 6:17. But there is balance...learning to tell the diff between how lust will manipulate and drive us, versus how the peace of God rules us > "And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body, and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

So, in a Christian marriage, we have the job of learning to tell the diff between love and lust. Lust is dominating, therefore dictatorial and oppressive. So it is wrong, and of the evil one trying to take over. And that wrong spirit, once sprung, can then degrade a person into weakness for arguing, overeating, depression, and other oppressive things.

I have seen the connection between pleasure-seeking masturbation, and how then I can suffer pain later because of the nasty lousy spirit driving me for pleasure, but then...later...I have only that nasty lousy driving unsatisfied spirit. God's love satisfies me first, with perfect contentment in nicely quiet sweet sensitive enjoyment with Him; and then who could care less about mere sexual pleasure, I say? God's love even feels so better than romantic and sexual stuff. So, I'd say, give yourself to God, first; then see how He takes care of you and your relating in His love.
I don't think I really touched that much on that side of things in the OP. Thanks for the post. Yes, it must be understood that sexuality should be understood for the point of the command "love one another". A couple should want to do what is best for each other, not just for themselves. Also, it is ultimately God who satisfies, God who completes us. Not some "soul mate". It is important not to make your sexual relationship or sexual desires or your partner into idols. Marriage and a sexual relationship should help you in your walk for God, not hinder you in it.

[God_is_personal]

one of DawnBat's items >

"I have a friend who worked with drug-addicted youth, and he said, basically, that you cannot escape an addiction negatively. You have to find something else to fill the role of whatever you were addicted to."

My father told me how we have people who have joined AA and stopped drinking, but then they have gone to barbiturates. Even though they were able to stop drinking, they still had enough craving which, demanding an outlet, managed to just take them to some other addiction. And, I understand, barbiturate addiction can be worse than alcohol addiction.

One thing I think of, here > about how they got into what is worse...this can be because the person, though managing to stop the boozing, was still able to go downhill in one's character so he or she could get into worse addiction > meaning the worse addiction possibly was not just because of the barbiturates. The Bible does clearly say, "But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. (2 Timothy 3:13) So, the worsening of addiction or worsening of choices of addiction can be related to the worsening of character, I would consider.

And so if you want "to find something else to fill the role of whatever you were addicted to", I would say you need to be careful not to just find some other sort of addiction to get into. My father did not switch substances, but he did get into unfaithful relating, with at least one AA lady. THAT may not have involved a classic addiction, but it certainly came with a worsening of character so he could do such an anti-love thing against his wife. So...another thing...not enough to just get clear of substances, but you need to get into love which will take care of you.

But there is love which can get you addicted to just one person...not a good idea >"'For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?'" (Matthew 5:46) Jesus wants us to love ALL people, but of course this means to be faithful to our spouses, and I believe God's love will make us even emotionally faithful and faithful in our feelings sexual...because of the character this love will s-h-a-r-e with us, of God Himself. But this, of course takes time and growing and maturing, hence the "practical" advice of Paul who realizes we can get in trouble if we deprive one another...because, I offer, even in Christian matrimony we are not perfect and so we can have drives not really gentle and able to sweetly take no for an answer > but we need to outgrow this into better and better loving >

> notice how Paul says, "But this I say, brethren, the time is short, so that from now on even those who have wives should be as though they had none," (1 Corinthians 7:29) > to think, that Paul is saying you can be blessed with one of the most wonderful prosperities, of having a real Christian sister as your wife, and yet you should be able to be as though you did not have even such a lady of the Lord Jesus like her!!! In other words(???) > Don't get addicted to her!!! Do not be possessive. Be free in Jesus' love so you are not able to get jealous...so you both can be busy loving all other people like Jesus indicates through Matthew 5:46 > she is your helpmate to help CORRECT you to love ALL people.

You are ready for her to die, since you are as though you had none.

But, of course, you are faithful and enjoy your good things of marriage together > 1 Timothy 6:17 > you can enjoy even MORE-so, since you are not hung-up in and tyrannized by insecurity and arguing and having to get the last word and being possessive > "nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3) Your good example of this can win each other closer to the Lord >
"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." Notice how we have that the gentleness and quietness of God's love is incorruptible!!! This means we can not be corrupted by addictive drives. We have natural immunity almighty in God's love sweetly soothing us...in His affection so softy caressing us (Romans 5:5) but also so very all-powerful to protect us against Satan's cruel feelings and those dictatorial passions he then uses to drive us desperately to feel better...after he was the one to hurt us and make us suffer.

It is good to get wise to this > "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." (Romans 12:21)

[CallistoSeeking]

Blessings to all~~

This is an interesting thread to see....

I had a question, Muhd--you said-- Please note that I do not necessarily use addiction to mean a negative addiction. A man should be addicted to sexual intimacy with his wife and vice versa. ---

I was just wondering if you think it is good to be "addicted" to sexuality, even in marriage? I am not married, so cannot say how married people handle this per-say, but I do know I don't believe that it's not safe to have any sort of passionate addiction, even in marriage. I def. believe God created sex, & not just for reproduction, but I think the concept of being addicted--in or out of marriage--has the same effect.

I guess it falls under the concept of "lusting after one's husband/wife". I don't think lust has a place in marriage either.

I was just wondering people's take on this (not to stir up trouble)..

God's mercy, & Merry Christmas to you!

~Audrey~

[God_is_personal]

Hi, Audrey...I was just preparing a post about this...while you made and offered yours! And, by the way, in the ending I gave "rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." But I did not have editing time to note this is 1 Peter 3:4. Again, thank you - - I like how you relate.

[Muhd]

Blessings to all~~

This is an interesting thread to see....

I had a question, Muhd--you said-- ---

I was just wondering if you think it is good to be "addicted" to sexuality, even in marriage? I am not married, so cannot say how married people handle this per-say, but I do know I don't believe that it's not safe to have any sort of passionate addiction, even in marriage. I def. believe God created sex, & not just for reproduction, but I think the concept of being addicted--in or out of marriage--has the same effect.

I guess it falls under the concept of "lusting after one's husband/wife". I don't think lust has a place in marriage either.

I was just wondering people's take on this (not to stir up trouble)..

God's mercy, & Merry Christmas to you!

~Audrey~
As I stated in the OP, any fulfillment of sexuality will make you want more, i.e. it is addictive. I do not see how a couple can have sex and not have a strong desire to do it again. I do not see how two people can make out and not want to do more. Clearly married couples are meant to be constantly sexually intimate, see 1 Corinthians 7.

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding as to what lust is. Lust is "an uncontrollable desire". Your sexual drive must be controlled and used in a way that is loving and produces positive results.

Perhaps I should not use the words "addictive" or "addicted' when describing the sexual relationship between a married couple. I do not mean an uncontrolled addiction, I mean one that is controlled by love. Here is an analogy. I am addicted to food. When I don't eat food at the regular meal times my body experiences a sort of withdrawal. Yet just because I am addicted to food does not mean that that is a bad thing, or that I have to satisfy that addiction in a way that is unhealthy. When my stomach grumbles I can still choose to eat a sandwich with fruits and veggies rather then fried donuts or a pizza. When I say addiction I mean a strong level of desire to do something, not necessarily uncontrolled desire or lust.

[CallistoSeeking]

bill78--thanx for the comment. God bless.

Muhd--so do you equate being addicted to food with gluttony? Maybe "addiction" isn't the right word, you're right...Because I think there's a dif. between being addicted to coffee, or pizza, than substaining one's health, or even enjoying eating!

Having not had sex, I couldn't say personally in that area either--but def. I understand lust & how out of control things can get. And you're right that obviously the desire is to be to one's mate and probably to make love again & again. But I was just saying that I think that even sex in marriage can become a god and take a place it shouldn't, just like anything else we get addicted to.

I guess it's the passion that is the danger, at least as far as I can tell... Of course, I wouldn't say having passion for one's husband/wife in the sense of loving them is bad/wrong (I def. know what the Bible says about belonging to one another, & loving one another & being only for each other). But that passion--described in the dictionary with such words/phrases as : intense, driving or overmastering feeling...devotion to activity, object or concept...ardent..desire---can be a danger to one's spiritual health, even in marriage.

Hope everyone's having a great New Year!

~Audrey~

[Tladatsi]

Soyeong,

The Puritans of New England were really not at all "Puritanical", at least not in sexual matters. They did indeed believed that sexual intercourse (between a married man and his wife) to be natural, healthy, and necessary and was encouraged from the pulpit. Masturbation, fornication, sodomy, and adultery were of course condenmed.

They were very matter of fact people, people who mostly lived in houses with only a single room and were generally farming people with many sexually active animals in ready view (if you grew up on a farm, you know what I mean). There were many long, cold nights without any television. Further, among humans, there was very little of what people today consider "privacy". As a result, sexual activity of all sorts were well known and not regarded with the facination and mystery that most modern people hold sexuality.

However, the writings of Paul of Taursus are full of anti-sexual tracts. Paul, and many ancients, viewed sex as a distraction of the flesh (the devil) to draw us away from God. Heterosexual intercourse bewteen and man and women who were married to each other was an acceptable, albeit less desirably, state but celebacy was the preferred state.

I think Puritans are the ones who gave Christians the stereotype of being sexually repressed, but I think they had it wrong. Looking at the Song of Solomon, it is clear that sexuality is a gift from God for us to enjoy. God was even kind enough to provide us with a handbook containing, among other things, the best circumstances for us to enjoy it. However, too much of a good thing becomes bad, so it included limitations on it for our own good.

[freespeech]

This thread will seek to establish an overarching theory of sexuality to better understand it and why the Bible says what it says, and to answer some of the toughest questions related to sexuality in our modern world (marriage, masturbation, porn, etc.). It will look at the "why" behind the biblical commands regarding sexuality. By understanding the reasons behind God's laws it will become easier for the Christian to answer tough questions regarding sexuality, and develop a course of action that allows for being godly in our sexually charged modern world. Also, before I get started, I would say that some of this stuff may be strictly from the male perspective, especially when I begin analyzing the sexual drive.

Now, I said we will be looking at the "why", so now I will start off with a "why" question. Why did God create us with a sexual drive? The first reason we have a sexual drive is obvious. That is, we have a sexual drive because then we will reproduce! And reproduce as much as circumstances allow because we enjoy it. God made our sexual drive so we would reproduce, so that we would enjoy our reproduction and populate the earth.

Now let's further examine this sexual drive that God has given us. Please remember that I do not claim to have much knowledge of the female sexual drive, this is about males now, though much of this may apply to women. One of the most important things that I think Christians must understand about the sexual drive is that it grows the more you feed it. That is, sexual activity is addictive. I don't think there is much debate about that, yet Christians often fail to put two and two together. If sexual activity is addictive, that means they can become addicted. Sexual addiction is much like any other addiction. You may start with something small and "innocent", ike checking girls out, letting your eyes linger on bakini-clad women at the beach, looking at ads for undergarments, or watching a movie where the lead actress is far from modest. Somehow many Christian men do these things thinking that they are either innocent or "not that bad". I mean, hey there's no commandment against it, it can't be that bad right? Wrong. These are sexual activities (i.e. you derive sexual enjoyment from them) that will leave you craving for more . The more you look lustfully at women, the more you will crave. Your sexual drive keeps on growing and growing. It doesn't take long for it to escalate into masturbation or porn or sleeping around or a combination of all three. Sure, maybe you can keep your sexual fulfillment strictly to checking women out, but you will always be fighting the urge to do more and more and more. Sure, maybe you feel like you've "vented" some of your sexual drive by masturbating, but the fact is that this relief is only temporary (I think there is actually a study that shows men are more likely to masturbate the day after masturbating then to masturbate after a day where they didn't masturbate). Many people become sexual addicts because they never realized that sexual activities are addictive and dangerous, even as much as drugs. The more people understand that sexual activity is addictive, the more they will realize they must be very cautious with regards to their sexuality. The way which our sexual drive grows and makes us crave more offers valuable insight into God's plan for sexuality.

Why would God create us with such a potent potential for addiction? Well, the answer is that he gives us the proper framework for using our potent sexual drive to power something very good. God has commanded us to find sexual fulfillment with our spouse in a marriage relationship, and with our spouse only. Now, when a man and his wife participate in sexual activities, fulfilling their sexual desires, their sexual drive will grow, and they will crave each other more and more. Ideally, this will drive the couple to be more and more intimate, and to grow in love and devotion to each other. As the couple becomes more and more physically intimate and close, the two become close on an emotional and spiritual level as well. The two are "bonded" as one flesh. There are many positive effects that come as a result of this marriage bond. The sexual drive is used as a tool to learn how to love, how to serve another person selflessly. It also establishes the ideal relationship for raising children: one man and one woman who love each other raising their offspring together (I think studies have shown that single/separated/homosexual parents are not as effective at raising children, judged on likelihood to commit crime and other criteria).

Now I will touch on another "why" question. Why not sexual activity outside of marriage? Why must all of one individual's experience be for one person throughout their entire life? What is so bad about sex outside of marriage? There are probably several reasons. By reserving all of the sexual experience for one person in marriage, the sexual experience is special and it is associated only with one person. This aids in the "bonding" that goes on in marriage that has so many positive benefits. The bonding of sexual intimacy in marriage is greatly weakened when people are sexually active outside of marriage. I can imagine a porn addict thinking when his wife takes off her clothes, "my, but my wife isn't nearly as attractive as that woman I stared at on my computer screen". Or for the masturbation addict on his honeymoon, "Well here we go again, time to have another orgasm. Oh boy this time there is a woman to go with it". You get my point, I hope. For the person who abstains from any sort of sexual activity outside of marriage, he is in an optimal position for having a good marriage. The second reason that people should avoid sexual activity outside of marriage is that people are too liable to get hurt. Broken hearts over break-ups, misunderstandings, false expectations, unexpected pregnancies, etc. But these things are relatively mild consequences, compared to what can happen when your sexual drive gets out of control. There is no guarantee that when you activate and feed your sexual drive there will always be a healthy outlet for all the sexual desire you create in the process. Sexual addictions frequently escalate into something completely unhealthy, even for married people (we will look at why this happens to married people in a moment). The story of Ted Bundy (http://www.pureintimacy.org/gr/intimacy/understanding/a0000082.cfm) is a powerful example of the path of destruction that can result from the escalation of sexual addiction. Ted Bundy went on a long path from soft-core porn to murderous rape because of the power of sexual addiction.

Another why question: why do some people have unhealthy sexual lives even in marriage? Many married men have problems with masturbation, pornography, and sleeping around. How does this happen? Well remember that I said: when you feed your sexual drive it will grow. A married man will theoretically have a enormous sexual appetite from the sexual activity that he has had with his wife (or the other way around, remember that I am a male and have a habit of seeing things from the male perspective). What happens when the wife cuts off sexual intimacy? What happens if a couple fight and they won't be intimate with each other? When a man's healthy source of sexual fulfillment is cut off, he is likely to go looking for other sources. Paul actually talks about this and gives some commands that are, unfortunately, not as well known as other commandments regarding sexuality.

7:1 Now with regard to the issues you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 7:2 But because of immoralities, each man should have relations with his own wife and each woman with her own husband. 7:3 A husband should give to his wife her sexual rights, and likewise a wife to her husband. 7:4 It is not the wife who has the rights to her own body, but the husband. In the same way, it is not the husband who has the rights to his own body, but the wife. 7:5 Do not deprive each other, except by mutual agreement for a specified time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer.
Paul clearly understood that marriage was the only proper place for the fulfillment of sexual desire. Paul says that to avoid sexual immorality (i.e. to avoid unhealthy outlets for sexual desire, like I have been saying), men and women should be married, and they should not deprive each other in their marriage. Married people need to understand that by not giving their spouse what they crave, and thus shutting down the proper outlet for sexuality, they are driving their spouse to sexual immorality (they can resist sexual immorality, but they are so addicted to the sexual experience that it will be incredibly difficult). I would especially give this advice to women; make sure your husband is sexually fulfilled! Let him know that whatever he wants to do with your body he is welcome to do it (a la Paul's command, but within reason of course). The same goes for you husbands out there, but usually the woman tires of sex before the man does. Now please understand that husbands are to treat their wives with love and respect at the same time. Your wife isn't just a sexual object to do what you will with, remember she has feelings, needs, and desires as well.

Well, that's enough for now. I hoped to touch more on the practical application of these ideas, like with dating relationships and such. And to answer hard questions like "what qualifies as lust?" and "how far is too far?". I also wanted to show where homosexuality fits in the picture. But it's getting late, so I will give you this portion to chew on and get to the rest later.
hello MUHD.
I have a question,referring to paragraph 5, if a person was addicted to masturbation prior to marriage, then after marriage finds his wife is not as good looking as the woman on the pages of a mag,and, he also realises that he is not interested in sexual activity with his wife, pushing her away, his wife realising this sleeps in a seperate room and the two of them no longer have any intimacy. The husband has no sex drive. What is the solution to such a problem as this one that will eventually drive that wedge deeper and deeper until the two seperate? I would appreciate your opion.

[Darth Executor]

hello MUHD.
I have a question,referring to paragraph 5, if a person was addicted to masturbation prior to marriage, then after marriage finds his wife is not as good looking as the woman on the pages of a mag,and, he also realises that he is not interested in sexual activity with his wife, pushing her away, his wife realising this sleeps in a seperate room and the two of them no longer have any intimacy. The husband has no sex drive. What is the solution to such a problem as this one that will eventually drive that wedge deeper and deeper until the two seperate? I would appreciate your opion.

Turn off the lights?

[freespeech]

Turn off the lights?
Gee thats really deep stuff, why didnt I think of that.

[Rusty T]

Theology of the Body (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/TheologyoftheBody.html)

[freespeech]

I think as a new member Im going to enjoy this site. The humour and the serious together.I appreciate all replies.(Darth)

[Muhd]

hello MUHD.
I have a question,referring to paragraph 5, if a person was addicted to masturbation prior to marriage, then after marriage finds his wife is not as good looking as the woman on the pages of a mag,and, he also realises that he is not interested in sexual activity with his wife, pushing her away, his wife realising this sleeps in a seperate room and the two of them no longer have any intimacy. The husband has no sex drive. What is the solution to such a problem as this one that will eventually drive that wedge deeper and deeper until the two seperate? I would appreciate your opion.Let me just say that this hypothetical husband does have a sex drive, he just finds fulfillment in porn and masturbation other than his wife. I would say the best solution would be to stop the porn and masturbation and start appreciating his wife. Of course this would require significant motivation on the part of the husband to rectify the problem. The wife should be seen by the man as his only source of sexual pleasure, not porn or masturbation. Lack of this perspective may also be another significant reason for unhealthy sexual lives that I described in paragraph 6. In fact I was going to add that on when I expand the OP.

[CallistoSeeking]

Turn off the lights?

Darth--you are a sick twisted creature! *thwap thwap*

And has this now become the sex advice thread, Muhd? Was just wondering. That's a tough one though, obvoiusly..and obviously masturbation is NOT a natural thing for a person to indulge in. Or healthy or pure.

~~Audrey~~