Projection onto God

[Jichard]

This thread was inspired by the following comment:

You have repeatedly reminded us (especially Jim) of something you said earlier:

"Christianity (especially through inheritance from Judaism) applies our familiar, commonsense psychology to God. Hence it attributing to God intentions beliefs, desires, and so on, where those states are similar to those had by humans (ex: jealousy, anger)."

In this quote, you are basically saying that the biblical God is personal, with all of the traits of personality. I agree that God shares these traits with humans. But there is more than one possible explanation for this commonality. Here are two possibilities among many:
1) Jichard's explanation(?): the biblical God is purely a projection of the human mind, so God shares some characteristics of human personality
2) the biblical explanation: God created man in His own image, giving man some characteristics of God's personality

I have no problem with the claim that some aspects of God are "natural." This is exactly what we should expect if we have been created by God in His own image.

There's no evidence for explanation 2 and I previously explained some reasons why 1 is a batter explanation than 2. In this thread, I'm going to go over some scientific evidence showing that humans (in this case, I'l be focusing largely on Christians) project onto God, where this projection is often influenced by culture and one's personality. Maybe at some point, someone will be able to muster similar evidence for the claim that God created man in His own image, giving man some characteristics of God's personality, though I highly doubt it.

""
http://www.uvm.edu/~pdodds/files/pap...epley2009a.pdf


How Christians reconcile their personal political views and the teachings of their faith: Projection as a means of dissonance reduction
http://www.pnas.org/content/109/10/3616.full.pdf


Was he happy? Cultural difference in conceptions of Jesus
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...92656610001728


Correlation of Self-Perception and Image of Christ Using the Five-Factor Model of Personality
http://download.springer.com/static/...a4d744cc317961



http://www.academia.edu/3257401/Near...ships_with_God



http://www.alexareynolds.com/MastersThesis.pdf

[Bill the Cat]

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[Jichard]

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As usual, you and your ilk have nothing worthwhile to say when it comes to science.

Troll somewhere else. Maybe on one of those threads where you can deny AGW again because you think Dyson told you to.

[Catholicity]

As usual, you and your ilk have nothing worthwhile to say when it comes to science.

Troll somewhere else. Maybe on one of those threads where you can deny AGW again because you think Dyson told you to.

He's not trolling, he's posting how he sincerely feels about the idiocy you just posted. Its laughable.

[Psychic Missile]

I came to this realization a while ago. Along with the psychological, sociological, and neurological evidence, we have historical evidence. What believers of any given religion think their god wants differs from era to era and from place to place. You say this phenomenon is projection, I would go further and call it self-deification. It's no leap at all to get from moral grandstanding based on what a god wants to pharaonic decree.

[shunyadragon]

He's not trolling, he's posting how he sincerely feels about the idiocy you just posted. Its laughable.

It was clearly trolling and nothing sincere in his post. Your response is laughable.If you have anything constructive to add please do.

[shunyadragon]

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[Bill the Cat]

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[Bill the Cat]

It was clearly trolling and nothing sincere in his post.

Oh baloney Frank. Jichard posted a bunch of survey "studies" from typical ignorant masses who think God wrote the Bible yesterday just for them. It's of little surprise that people foist their opinions onto God when a majority think that God is their personal ATM. They have little knowledge of church history or the doctrines the church has defended for centuries. I'd love to have the time and give-a-crap to go through each of those "studies" and show where each is just plain crap, but I'd rather organize my fast food straw collection, which can't be any less useless than the moronic crap of those surveys.

[Psychic Missile]

Oh baloney Frank. Jichard posted a bunch of survey "studies" from typical ignorant masses who think God wrote the Bible yesterday just for them. It's of little surprise that people foist their opinions onto God when a majority think that God is their personal ATM. They have little knowledge of church history or the doctrines the church has defended for centuries. I'd love to have the time and give-a-crap to go through each of those "studies" and show where each is just plain crap, but I'd rather organize my fast food straw collection, which can't be any less useless than the moronic crap of those surveys.

Hit a little too close to home?

[Jichard]

Oh baloney Frank. Jichard posted a bunch of survey "studies" from typical ignorant masses who think God wrote the Bible yesterday just for them.

Once again, you made false claims about scientific studies you hadn't read. For example, the first paper listed isn't just a "survey "stud[y]"". Instead, said paper includes a priming study and an imaging study.

At some point, Bill, you actually need to read the things you comment on. And your response to this scientific research dislays the flaws you complain about elsewhere:

Now, do you care to address the article I cited, or are you too busy trying to discredit people who disagree with your pat answers?

[..] You saw someone post something that bucked the current research, and immediately went into attack dog mode. That's not how science is done. It's why I loved discussing things like this with Sylas before the crash, He was FAR more reasonable than you could ever hope to be on the topic.

It's of little surprise that people foist their opinions onto God when a majority think that God is their personal ATM. They have little knowledge of church history or the doctrines the church has defended for centuries.

First, present some actual evidence for your claim.

Second, what reason do we have for thinking that church leaders (and people who wrote the biblican texts) were'nt simply projecting onto God as well? Why the special pleading for them?

I'd love to have the time and give-a-crap to go through each of those "studies" and show where each is just plain crap, but I'd rather organize my fast food straw collection, which can't be any less useless than the moronic crap of those surveys.

So, as expected, you disregarded the studies without reading them, since the studies were inconvenient for your ideological position. Hypocrite says:

Now, do you care to address the article I cited, or are you too busy trying to discredit people who disagree with your pat answers?

[..] You saw someone post something that bucked the current research, and immediately went into attack dog mode. That's not how science is done. It's why I loved discussing things like this with Sylas before the crash, He was FAR more reasonable than you could ever hope to be on the topic.

[Jichard]

He's not trolling, he's posting how he sincerely feels about the idiocy you just posted. Its laughable.

No, he's just trolling and being a hypocrite.

When he posts press pieces about scientific research, he expects people to address the research and not "attack" the research:

Now, do you care to address the article I cited, or are you too busy trying to discredit people who disagree with your pat answers?

[...]

You saw someone post something that bucked the current research, and immediately went into attack dog mode. That's not how science is done. It's why I loved discussing things like this with Sylas before the crash, He was FAR more reasonable than you could ever hope to be on the topic.

Yet when he's presented scientific research, he does not address the research and instead simply attacks the research without reading it:

Jichard posted a bunch of survey "studies" from typical ignorant masses who think God wrote the Bible yesterday just for them.
[...]
I'd love to have the time and give-a-crap to go through each of those "studies" and show where each is just plain crap, but I'd rather organize my fast food straw collection, which can't be any less useless than the moronic crap of those surveys.

That's one way to tell someone is trolling: when they blatantly violate the very guidelines they hold other people to. Another way to tell their trolling is when they post silly images, as opposed to addressing the substance of what they said. Bill did that, and Bill is clearly trolling.

[Bill the Cat]

Once again, you made false claims about scientific studies you hadn't read. For example, the first paper listed isn't just a "survey "stud[y]"". Instead, said paper includes a priming study and an imaging study.

Of a whopping 18 people... and it's an absolute shock... SHOCK I tell you... that Americans were found generally egocentric when it comes to what they think God's standards are...

First, present some actual evidence for your claim.

http://www.pewforum.org/2010/09/28/u...wledge-survey/

Second, what reason do we have for thinking that church leaders (and people who wrote the biblican texts) were'nt simply projecting onto God as well? Why the special pleading for them?

That's another subject. For a Christian, the scriptures are God's Word, and no matter what we WANT to believe, that Word SHOULD come before our belief on what God "should" say on the subjects.

So, as expected, you disregarded the studies without reading them, since the studies were inconvenient for your ideological position.

No, moron. I read the ones I could access for free, but I don't have the time to go through them with a fine tooth comb to comment on why they aren't as concrete as you claim, nor your flawed thinking that they somehow prove that man made up God.

[Psychic Missile]

Bill reminds me of people who claim advertising may work on everyone else, but it doesn't work on them. His arguments thus far are "you're wrong but I don't have time to tell you why" and "no true Christian".

[Bill the Cat]

Bill reminds me of people who claim advertising may work on everyone else, but it doesn't work on them. His arguments thus far are "you're wrong but I don't have time to tell you why" and "no true Christian".

You're so clever...