Schizophrenia and a Broken Friendship

[Glass*Soul]

I have a situation that's resting rather heavily today...maybe because it's Christmas.

I have a dear friend--a generally sweet, loving guy--who's schizophrenic. He's a lot of other things too. He's a genius musician, an artist, a poet, a vegan, and a dedicated volunteer at a marine aquarium, just to mention a few. He also has the most gorgeous eyes I've ever seen.

We met on the internet over four years ago and have always lived quite a distance apart, but we've managed to visit back and forth and have met each other's families. This year he moved even farther away...to a good place where he can live on his own but near a trusted relative. So, it's a very long distance friendship now.

We've struggle up and down. I know he journeys through layers of paranoia to get to me sometimes. According to his perceptions, being my friend is taking a terrible risk because he's convinced I'm being manipulated by outside forces hostile to him. He has to decide over and over again that my friendship is worth it. Of course I know better, but I also know that I can never communicate my assurances to him in a way that will make the slightest difference. All I can do is marvel that anyone would want to be my friend despite the things he believes he knows about me.

I've never been afraid of him until this summer. Between July 4th and my birthday on August 5th, his calls to me became creepy to the extreme. I was suddenly playing Clarice Starling to his Hannibal Lector. But no actor could ever get that chilling laughter just right. I don't even know how to describe it. It broke my heart to do it, but I cut off phone communication with him. I just couldn't take it anymore.

He said I wasn't strong enough to be his freind, and I don't know but what that's a true assessment.

A few weeks later he began posting death threats on the web, against people on the website he was using and against public officials. He suggested he had made preparations to leave the country. I sat there in a state of panic. I realized I was probably the only person in the world who was in a position to do something at that point...so I called his family and outed his private online identity to them...

So, now the freindship is completely broken. We have no communication at all.

It's a mournful thing.

I'm sorry this is so long and rambling--probably not a truly appropritate OP--but does anyone else on this board have a friend who's schizophrenic? How do you work that? How do you cope if things get like this?

[norwegen]

So, now the freindship is completely broken. We have no communication at all.

It's a mournful thing.I'm guessing, ultimately, that he's the one who severed the friendship. It's probably best.

I'm sorry this is so long and rambling--probably not a truly appropritate OP--but does anyone else on this board have a friend who's schizophrenic? How do you work that? How do you cope if things get like this?A friend? I have schizophrenic family members.

'They' stole the $3 million Saddam Hussein gave my mother and whatever sum it was that she got from Bill Gates (it seems to change periodically). They're after the movie money (the White House won't okay the release of a movie about the way she championed the anti-vivasection movement until after her death). They took my brother's leg for the movie money. The FBI hypnotises her, astral travelers channel through her to eat, and everybody's just waiting for her to die. People from Pleiades are her last best hope. She wants me to go on the talk shows after they kill her and tell the truth.

Schizophrenia is in the genes, if I'm not mistaken. My other brother has a mild case of it in my opinion, though it's not official. He can function. In fact, quite well in certain areas (though he didn't go to college, he has a high-paying, highly technical, degreed postition with a large communications company because he scored higher on the employment tests than all the college graduates who applied). He's not really paranoid or delusional so much as he is socially dysfunctional and in other ways fragmented. He can't make friends, he's been homeless, and his speech is often disjointed.

Your friend is probably very smart (the IQs in my family range from 145 to 170) and, at times, very likeable with a great sense of humor. From your description, however, he might be one of those rare types who can be violent. You did the right thing. My mother, though not violent, has had many people come and go in her life. In the end, though, and always after a very short period of time, she drives them away. She never misses them. In fact, they're all 'in on it' in some way. This may be a harsh thing for me to say, but I'm not so sure your friend will miss you.

If, for some reason, he reappears in your life, you'll cope. Whenever I see her, I tell my mother that she's already halfway to Pleiades, that her court cases "truly have been landmark cases" ( :wink: ), as they've made all the headlines. She just laughs it off. So do I. We get along rather well.

[Glass*Soul]

I'm guessing, ultimately, that he's the one who severed the friendship. It's probably best.

I severed it because I was afraid of him. He might have been pushing me away in a passive/aggressive fashion, but I made the decision.

A friend? I have schizophrenic family members.

'They' stole the $3 million Saddam Hussein gave my mother and whatever sum it was that she got from Bill Gates (it seems to change periodically). They're after the movie money (the White House won't okay the release of a movie about the way she championed the anti-vivasection movement until after her death). They took my brother's leg for the movie money. The FBI hypnotises her, astral travelers channel through her to eat, and everybody's just waiting for her to die. People from Pleiades are her last best hope. She wants me to go on the talk shows after they kill her and tell the truth.

Wow. That sounds...well...familiar. Not the specific details, but the feel of the story.

Schizophrenia is in the genes, if I'm not mistaken. My other brother has a mild case of it in my opinion, though it's not official. He can function. In fact, quite well in certain areas (though he didn't go to college, he has a high-paying, highly technical, degreed postition with a large communications company because he scored higher on the employment tests than all the college graduates who applied). He's not really paranoid or delusional so much as he is socially dysfunctional and in other ways fragmented. He can't make friends, he's been homeless, and his speech is often disjointed.

Your friend is probably very smart (the IQs in my family range from 145 to 170) and, at times, very likeable with a great sense of humor. From your description, however, he might be one of those rare types who can be violent. You did the right thing. My mother, though not violent, has had many people come and go in her life. In the end, though, and always after a very short period of time, she drives them away. She never misses them. In fact, they're all 'in on it' in some way. This may be a harsh thing for me to say, but I'm not so sure your friend will miss you.

Yeah. He's very smart. He tested in the 140's as a child, but when it comes to music or word-play he has this ability to get utterly breath-taking.

I also understand what you're saying about him probably not missing me. When I met him, he seemed quite attached to a number of friends and his family, but early last year he began to complain to me of a deadness in his emotions, an inability to love. He would call me up in tears over it. By August he was able to say to me, with a very flat voice, "I enjoy talking to you, but I won't miss you at all. I don't even miss my family. Why would I miss you?"

I believed him.

If, for some reason, he reappears in your life, you'll cope. Whenever I see her, I tell my mother that she's already halfway to Pleiades, that her court cases "truly have been landmark cases" ( :wink: ), as they've made all the headlines. She just laughs it off. So do I. We get along rather well.

You know, I think I had this image of myself as someone who couldn't be driven off by the schizophrenia. There was so much else going on with my friend that was good...

When you're with your mom, do you make a distinction between your mom-as-your-mom and her schizophrenia, or are is it all too bound up in who she is to even make that distiction?

[Adam]

A friend? I have schizophrenic family members.

'They' stole the $3 million Saddam Hussein gave my mother and whatever sum it was that she got from Bill Gates (it seems to change periodically). They're after the movie money (the White House won't okay the release of a movie about the way she championed the anti-vivasection movement until after her death). They took my brother's leg for the movie money. The FBI hypnotises her, astral travelers channel through her to eat, and everybody's just waiting for her to die. People from Pleiades are her last best hope. She wants me to go on the talk shows after they kill her and tell the truth.

OK, everyone,
For those of you who may still be confused, the above long paragraph is not Norwegen's opinion, but a summary of what his mother thinks in her delusions.
My opinion is that both Glass*Soul's former friend and Norwegen's mother are not classic schizophrenics, but paranoid schizophrenics, a quite different illness. The paranoid type is dangerous, no doubt about it. It is this paranoic schizophrenic type that is often very intelligent (and thus all the more dangerous).
Quite in contrast are the classic schizophrenic types. The hebephrenic schizophrenic has delusions even to the point of hearing voices and maybe even seeing things that aren't there. They are not dangerous. And completely different from the paranoic type is the catatonic schizophrenic. My son would probably turn into the classic immobility like a statue if he were not medicated. Sometimes his medication is sufficient to enable him to get up into the part of the house where more people are and talk with them, sometimes even to go out of the house and go for a walk. Mostly he stays in his bed all day and watches TV. He tends to eat one meal a day, late at night when no one else is in the dining room.
My son never showed any signs of high intelligence and was always strange as a child. At about age 18 he seemed to overcome all his problems and be clever and social, but then (as is the typical age of onset) he lapsed into full schizophrenia.
(I'm not a professional in psychology, so my terminology above may be off in some ways.)
Adam

[Glass*Soul]

OK, everyone,
For those of you who may still be confused, the above long paragraph is not Norwegen's opinion, but a summary of what his mother thinks in her delusions.

I get the impression I've dropped down in the middle of an ongoing discussion. :)

My opinion is that both Glass*Soul's former friend and Norwegen's mother are not classic schizophrenics, but paranoid schizophrenics, a quite different illness. The paranoid type is dangerous, no doubt about it. It is this paranoic schizophrenic type that is often very intelligent (and thus all the more dangerous).
Quite in contrast are the classic schizophrenic types. The hebephrenic schizophrenic has delusions even to the point of hearing voices and maybe even seeing things that aren't there. They are not dangerous.
And completely different from the paranoic type is the catatonic schizophrenic. My son would probably turn into the classic immobility like a statue if he were not medicated. Sometimes his medication is sufficient to enable him to get up into the part of the house where more people are and talk with them, sometimes even to go out of the house and go for a walk. Mostly he stays in his bed all day and watches TV. He tends to eat one meal a day, late at night when no one else is in the dining room.
My son never showed any signs of high intelligence and was always strange as a child. At about age 18 he seemed to overcome all his problems and be clever and social, but then (as is the typical age of onset) he lapsed into full schizophrenia.
(I'm not a professional in psychology, so my terminology above may be off in some ways.)
Adam

I didn't realize when I started this topic that I had come to a place with members who have such intimate knowledge of the subject. I'm grateful there are medicines available now that allow your son to participate in life. One thing my friend has taught me is an appreciation for the value of the very things you've described here...being able to take a walk or go upstairs and say hi to your family...a sense of gratitude for those things.

My friend (I can't quite bring myself to think of him as a "former friend") does indeed see things that aren't there, such as ghostly figures and flashes of light, and hear all sorts of sounds and voices, some of them so loud and intrusive that he reports actually feeling the vibrations in his ear canal. He's also paranoid in the sense that he feels he is being actively persecuted in an intricate plot that only he fully understands. He suspects every item to contain surveillacne devices, including his glasses and his sinuses (that second one worried me after he destroyed his glasses. I was terrified he would try to get it out somehow), birds and even insects.

I have been reassured so many times that I needn't feel that my friend is a danger to me simply becasue he's schizophrenic, and I also felt that way myself. (One person who encouraged me in this was another much longer-term friend who has schizo-affective disorder.)

This guy was a positive influence in my life, and I felt quite safe in his presence right up until this summer. By August 5th, every instict in my being was screaming at me to get more than just a physical distance between myself and him, to get his mind off me as quickly as possible.

So, I don't doubt I did the right thing. I had to do what I did in both situations concerning him.

But I MISS him. I miss the guy who wrestled against this with such a sweet spirit for so long. I miss the guy in the picture in front of me, who hand-feeds disabled sea tutles in his spare time. The guy who says, "I don't kow how to tell you what I'm feeling. Let me play it on my guitar." The guy who thinks fall leaves are lost souls and arranges them in beautiful abstract paterns in bowls of water to help them into the next world.

[Dave G]

I get the impression I've dropped down in the middle of an ongoing discussion. :)



I didn't realize when I started this topic that I had come to a place with members who have such intimate knowledge of the subject. I'm grateful there are medicines available now that allow your son to participate in life. One thing my friend has taught me is an appreciation for the value of the very things you've described here...being able to take a walk or go upstairs and say hi to your family...a sense of gratitude for those things.

My friend (I can't quite bring myself to think of him as a "former friend") does indeed see things that aren't there, such as ghostly figures and flashes of light, and hear all sorts of sounds and voices, some of them so loud and intrusive that he reports actually feeling the vibrations in his ear canal. He's also paranoid in the sense that he feels he is being actively persecuted in an intricate plot that only he fully understands. He suspects every item to contain surveillacne devices, including his glasses and his sinuses (that second one worried me after he destroyed his glasses. I was terrified he would try to get it out somehow), birds and even insects.

I have been reassured so many times that I needn't feel that my friend is a danger to me simply becasue he's schizophrenic, and I also felt that way myself. (One person who encouraged me in this was another much longer-term friend who has schizo-affective disorder.)

This guy was a positive influence in my life, and I felt quite safe in his presence right up until this summer. By August 5th, every instict in my being was screaming at me to get more than just a physical distance between myself and him, to get his mind off me as quickly as possible.

So, I don't doubt I did the right thing. I had to do what I did in both situations concerning him.

But I MISS him. I miss the guy who wrestled against this with such a sweet spirit for so long. I miss the guy in the picture in front of me, who hand-feeds disabled sea tutles in his spare time. The guy who says, "I don't kow how to tell you what I'm feeling. Let me play it on my guitar." The guy who thinks fall leaves are lost souls and arranges them in beautiful abstract paterns in bowls of water to help them into the next world.

Well, I can say paranoid schizophrenics are NOT necessarily dangerous, since I myself am diagnosed as such. Most schizophrenics are passive, regardless of the color of their diagnosis.
I have just recently (a month or so) started to recognize that the "messages" I get from God are just regular things in regular life. You can imagine what that has done to my prayer life, when I thought every time I prayed God would tell me I was going to Hell. I'm not dangerous at all, just terrified. Since I just recently decided to ignore all my signals, I have had a great time doing the things that "God would not permit me to do."
His meds are the key. I have gone through most meds and finally settled on Clozaril and my doctor is thinking about Lithium. The problems with Clozaril is it can interfere with blood pressure, white blood count, and drowsiness, as well as weight gain.
It can also take years to start to work.
I understand about the broken friendship...I had a good friend from college come and get me when I was on the street. I started "chasing demons" and he kicked me out. I haven't heard from him in about 8 years.
I used to see things that weren't there as well. That went away about 3 years ago, I think. My sickness could account for problems I"ve had since age 18, although it turned full blown around age 29 or so.

Now I have the daunting task of learning to love God with prayer and reading my Bible again without feeling condemned. Right now I'm not going to try, it's been too soon.
It's also a problem that people will stop taking their meds and have a relapse. Thankfully, I haven't been one of those people.

But anyway, I stay in my apartment (rent controlled) away from people. If I'm in a large group of people I get overstimulated.
My sickness has at least one foot in reality, I have no idea what the people who are chased by the FBI or receive messages from aliens are thinking.

[dizzle]

It's also a problem that people will stop taking their meds and have a relapse.

Yes that is a big problem. I have one experience with a person suffering from this disorder and the problem was that the person would feel better and then stop meds and relapse. I hear this is common. But properly on meds, many people with this malady achieve relief.

It sounds like perhaps your friend hasn't yet found the right treatment for him.

[Glass*Soul]

Well, I can say paranoid schizophrenics are NOT necessarily dangerous, since I myself am diagnosed as such. Most schizophrenics are passive, regardless of the color of their diagnosis.
I have just recently (a month or so) started to recognize that the "messages" I get from God are just regular things in regular life. You can imagine what that has done to my prayer life, when I thought every time I prayed God would tell me I was going to Hell. I'm not dangerous at all, just terrified. Since I just recently decided to ignore all my signals, I have had a great time doing the things that "God would not permit me to do."

Is the terror lessening?

It's my most sincere hope that my friend's violent talk is nothing more than just that. I certainly can't describe him as a passive person. It was his cheeky self-assurance that attracted me to him in the first place. :lol:

His meds are the key. I have gone through most meds and finally settled on Clozaril and my doctor is thinking about Lithium. The problems with Clozaril is it can interfere with blood pressure, white blood count, and drowsiness, as well as weight gain.
It can also take years to start to work.

I might mention that he's rarely taken meds. On one level I can somewhat understand why. There's a spark in him that goes out when he does. For the most part, it's an option he won't even discuss.

I understand about the broken friendship...I had a good friend from college come and get me when I was on the street. I started "chasing demons" and he kicked me out. I haven't heard from him in about 8 years.
I used to see things that weren't there as well. That went away about 3 years ago, I think. My sickness could account for problems I"ve had since age 18, although it turned full blown around age 29 or so.

Now I have the daunting task of learning to love God with prayer and reading my Bible again without feeling condemned. Right now I'm not going to try, it's been too soon.
It's also a problem that people will stop taking their meds and have a relapse. Thankfully, I haven't been one of those people.

But anyway, I stay in my apartment (rent controlled) away from people. If I'm in a large group of people I get overstimulated.
My sickness has at least one foot in reality, I have no idea what the people who are chased by the FBI or receive messages from aliens are thinking.

Or both!

I'm an extremely introverted person myself, so the idea of feeling overstimulated if you're around people too much is something I can identify with. It exhausts me.

You have all my best wishes in finding your place in your spiritual journey.

[Glass*Soul]

Yes that is a big problem. I have one experience with a person suffering from this disorder and the problem was that the person would feel better and then stop meds and relapse. I hear this is common. But properly on meds, many people with this malady achieve relief.

It sounds like perhaps your friend hasn't yet found the right treatment for him.

In the years I've known him, he was only on meds for about 4 months.

I also suspected last spring that he was suffering from depression on top of his schizophrenia.

Here's a cool poem he wrote:

How could I promise you ?
What I never will
How could I give to you more than I ever....
I've ever known... I never know...I've never known....
I hate the way I am to you
What else can I be ?
I try so much to be....
Living in myself....
I try so hard to be alone
So by
Myself
I cannot afford to be
The life I show
Myself
You will know I'm fraudulent

I need you
To see through me !!!
I know I'm weaker than yourself....
I need you ! To concede to....
The simplicity and illusions
Smoke and mirrors

Across a
Lunatic....
Time ticks slowly

Time to sun
Knowledge reason
My faith my love
Alone I hope just like it's prayer
Time and slowly....
Meet me there..
Please meet here....

I need you to meet me there...
I need you to meet me there....
Time is but imaginary...

Tock...
Tick tock tick tock... meet me there.. I need no thing...love me

[norwegen]

I also understand what you're saying about him probably not missing me. When I met him, he seemed quite attached to a number of friends and his family, but early last year he began to complain to me of a deadness in his emotions, an inability to love. He would call me up in tears over it. By August he was able to say to me, with a very flat voice, "I enjoy talking to you, but I won't miss you at all. I don't even miss my family. Why would I miss you?"Well, if he really is becoming detached, then be glad. He's cognizant of his condition. He's cognizant of his emotions. Be grateful that his perceptions of reality aren't that badly impaired.When you're with your mom, do you make a distinction between your mom-as-your-mom and her schizophrenia, or are is it all too bound up in who she is to even make that distiction?It's who she is. Nutty as a fruitcake. Batty as a belfry. Able to disarm a perfect stranger in six words or less. The neighborhood fat, crazy lady.

Yup. My mother. I think I'll keep her. :smile:

[Smokering]

I think I kind of get why your friend wouldn't want to be medicated, Glass*Soul. I mean, my problems are nothing compared to his, but for some reason I can only write when I'm depressed. (Curiously enough, I tend to write humour, so that when I'm at my lowest people online say things like 'Oh, you're such a fun-loving bright person!', and when I'm not depressed I drop out of contact and they wonder if I'm okay. Strange world).

I miss being happy when I'm depressed, although I kind of revel in the depression too because that's how it can work. But when I'm happy, I miss being able to write. It's a tossup on any given day whether I feel my creative side or my 'normal' side is the more precious, intrinsic part of me. Sometimes I wouldn't give up the quiet contentment of domestic life for anything, and at other points I feel inclined to let my hair go Beethoven, never eat, and huddle in front of a computer all day and night.

Obviously, if you get to the point where you're endangering yourself or others your creative side needs to take a long walk off a short pier, period. But I can understand how the fear of losing uniqueness would discourage your friend from taking drugs (apart from other potential side effects of the purely physical kind).

I'm really sorry for your situation. I've never lost a friend to actual scariness (neediness twice, and once a preoccupation with demons, but mostly he was just obnoxious), and I can't imagine how traumatic it must be for both of you. Did his family get help for him after you notified them?