FEATURED MINISTRY ARTICLE: LDS Terminology Differences by Sandra Tanner

[Trout]

*Whenever an evangelical Christian and a Latter-day Saint engage in a doctrinal discussion they encounter the problem of terminology. LDS leaders use the standard vocabulary of Christianity but with radically different definitions. A Christian should never take for granted that his/her LDS friend understands common Christian terms in the biblical way.*



GODHEAD

LDS: Father & Son are resurrected men with physical bodies. Holy Ghost is a separate man with a spiritual body. Three totally separate Gods. God is married. Other Gods for other worlds. (D&C 130:22; Teachings, pp. 345-346, pp. 370-373; Doctrines of Salvation,v.1, p. 10-12)

BIBLE: God is not a man. (Num. 23:19) He has always been God. (Psa. 90:2; Mal. 3:6; Hab. 1:12; Rom. 1:22-25) Only one God. (Isa. 43:10-11; 44:6; 45:21-22) Father is Spirit and invisible. (John 4:24; 1 Tim. 1:17)

JESUS CHRIST

LDS: Literally our elder brother, born to Heavenly Parents in the premortal life. Jesus, Lucifer and humans are all the same species and are brothers and sisters. (Gospel Principles pp. 11, 17, 18)

BIBLE: Fully God, not a subordinate deity. Eternal. (Isa. 9:6; John 8:58; 1 Tim. 3:16; Heb. 13:8; John 1:1-4, 14; Col. 1:16-17)

PREMORTAL LIFE

LDS: Teach that everyone existed in heaven before born on earth. We have existed eternally. (D&C 93:29; PGP:Bk of Abr 3:21-22; Teachings, pp. 352-354)

BIBLE: Only Christ existed before mortality, not man. (John 8:58; Col. 1:17) Our existence started on earth. (Zec. 12:1; 1 Cor. 15:46)

THE FALL

LDS: Fall was a blessing. It brought mortality, ability to have children and physical death. Adam was given conflicting commandments and was supposed to fall. (Doctrines of Salvation Vol. 1, pp. 111-116; Gospel Principles, pp. 31-33; 2 Nephi 2:25; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 268-269)

BIBLE: God intended obedience. Gen. 1:28. God tempts no one. (James 1:13-14). Man is sinful. (Rom. 5:12; 8:5-8; 1 Cor. 2:14)

VIRGIN BIRTH

LDS: Believe God, as a resurrected physical man, is literal Father of Jesus—same manner in which men are conceived on earth. Believe Matt. 1:18 is in error. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 546-547, 742)

BIBLE: Mary was "with child of the Holy Ghost." (Matt. 1:18; Luke 1:30-35)

SIN

LDS: Specific acts, not man's basic nature. Must know act is wrong to be a sin. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 550, 735-736)

BIBLE: We are in spiritual rebellion until conversion. (Eph. 2:3; Rom. 5:6) We do not just commit sins; we are basically sinful. (Matt. 1:21; Jer. 17:9; Luke 5:32)

FORGIVENESS

LDS: Granted at end of process of repentance and reformed behavior (Mormon Doctrine, p. 292-298; Gospel Principles, pp. 75-77, p. 123; Doctrine of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 133-134)

BIBLE: Complete forgiveness granted the moment we turn to Christ. (Mark 2:5; Col. 2:13-14; Eph. 1:6-7)

SALVATION BY GRACE

LDS: Believe Christ's death brought release from grave and universal resurrection. Salvation by grace is universal resurrection. Beyond this, man must earn his place in heaven. Saved by grace after all we can do. (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25:23; Mormon Doctrine pp. 669-671)

BIBLE: Salvation is not limited to universal resurrection but gift of God to those who believe. (Rom. 1:16; Heb. 9:28; Eph. 2:8-9)

REDEEMED

LDS: From mortal death only. Not same as Eternal Life. (Doctrine of Salvation, Vol. 2, pp. 10-15)

BIBLE: Redeemed from more than mortal death; redeemed from spiritual death & given Eternal Life. (Rom. 6:23; Eph. 2:1; Gal. 4:4-5)

GOSPEL

LDS: Doctrines and commandments of the LDS Church. True gospel restored by Joseph Smith. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 331; 334; Doctrine of Salvation, Vol. 1, pp. 156-159)

BIBLE: Good news of Christ’s death and resurrection as atonement for our sins. (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Gal. 1:6-8)

BORN AGAIN

LDS: Baptism into the LDS Church. (Mormon Doctrine, p. 101)

BIBLE: We are spiritually dead until our spiritual birth. (1 Pet. 1:23; 2 Cor. 5:17; John 3:7, 14, 15)

TRUE CHURCH

LDS: Only the Mormon Church. The true church was taken from the earth until Joseph Smith restored it. (D&C 1:30; 115:3, 4; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 133, 136)

BIBLE: Not an organization; as born-again Christians we are part of God's Church. (1 Cor. 12:12-14; Matt. 16:18; 18:19-20)

AUTHORITY - PRIESTHOOD

LDS: Believe only LDS have authority to baptize, ordain, etc. Have two-part system of priesthood—Melchizedek and Aaronic. (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 3, p. 80-81; D&C 107:1-21)

BIBLE: Christ brought end to Aaronic priesthood and is the only High Priest after the manner of Melchizedek. (Heb. 5:9-10; 7:11-17; 7:24-27; 2 Tim. 2:2)

BAPTISM

LDS: Must be performed by LDS priesthood. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 69-72)

BIBLE: Emphasis is on Believer—not priesthood authority. (Matt. 28:19; Acts 2:37-41; 16:30-34)

SONS OF GOD

LDS: We were all born in heaven, prior to earth, as literal spirit children of God and his wife. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 589-590)

BIBLE: Spiritually adopted at conversion. (John 1:12; Gal. 3:26)

ETERNAL LIFE

LDS: Exaltation in Celestial Kingdom; godhood and ability to bear children in heaven. Must have a temple recommend and be sealed in Mormon temple. (D&C 131:1-4; 132:19-25, 30, 55)

BIBLE: Not limited to certain ones in the top part of heaven. No mention of parenthood or temple marriage but is given to all true believers. (1 John 5:12-13; Luke 20:35-36)

IMMORTALITY

LDS: Universal gift. The ability to go to heaven and live forever but not same as Eternal Life. Lower level of heaven and unable to bear children. (D&C 14:7; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 237, 376-377, 670)

BIBLE: Makes no distinction between immortality and eternal life. No second class citizens in heaven. (2 Tim. 1:10; John 3:15-16)

HELL

LDS: Hell as an institution is eternal—inmates come and go as in jail, but do not spend eternity there. Temporary. After debt is paid they will go to the Telestial Kingdom. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 349-351)

BIBLE: No mention of people getting out of Hell. (Rev. 21:8; Matt. 13:24-43, 47-50; Luke 16:26)

HEAVEN

LDS: Divided into three kingdoms—Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial. A place for almost everyone. (D&C 88:16-20; Misuse of 1 Cor. 15:40-41)

BIBLE: Only mentions two conditions—everlasting punishment or eternal life. (Matt. 25:31-46; 2 Thess. 1:7-10)

KINGDOM OF GOD

LDS: Means Celestial Kingdom. Only those in the Celestial Kingdom are in God's presence. Those in the Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdoms are not in the presence of the Father. (D&C 76:50-88; 131:1-4; 132:16-17)

BIBLE: All redeemed will be in God's presence. (Rev. 21:1-3) All believers are part of Kingdom. (Matt. 13:41-43)

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[Bill the Cat]

I think that Sandra did a fantastic job of defining the terminology differences. The only shortcoming is the non LDS approved scripture references, like "Mormon Doctrine" which can be dismissed as opinion. There should have been more effort to find the citations in LDS approved scripture. Otherwise, a fine piece, worthy of printing out and learning.

Bill

[Sparko]

Hey, trout. can we make this a sticky in the LDS forum and lock it?

[master_mormon]

Being LDS, I find some positives and negatives about this article. First the positives

1. Mrs. Tanner correctly notes that there are important terminology differences between LDS and people of other Christian traditions. These differences cause both sides to misunderstand the other person's position because each side sees their perspective as the only or correct one while ignoring that there are different points of view out there. Its a problem that unfortunately will continue in the future because both the LDS side and non-LDS side often like to lecture to each other rather than actually talk to each other.

2. Mrs. Tanner does correctly mention a number of LDS views though she does not spend any time explaining them. For example, statements like "LDS: Father & Son are resurrected men with physical bodies. Holy Ghost is a separate man with a spiritual body" and "LDS:Teach that everyone existed in heaven before born on earth. We have existed eternally. (D&C 93:29; PGP:Bk of Abr 3:21-22; Teachings, pp. 352-354)" are correct.

Negatives


1. Mrs. Tanner includes false or misleading statements along with the correct statements that she mentions about LDS belief. For example "LDS: Believe God, as a resurrected physical man, is literal Father of Jesus—same manner in which men are conceived on earth. Believe Matt. 1:18 is in error. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 546-547, 742)" First LDS do not believe that "Matthew 1:18 is in error". It might not be complete but that does not mean its false. Though LDS do believe that God the Father is the Father of Jesus and not the Holy Ghost, the exact methodology of how Mary became pregnant is not known. Mrs. Tanner would like people to think that LDS believe that God the Father had literal sex with Mary but that simply is false. Here citations do not include the following statements that directly address this issue:
"What part did the Holy Ghost play in Jesus conception? The Father used the Holy Ghost as an agent, or enabler, so that a virgin could give birth to his Son. How this was done has not been revealed. So states like Jesus being begotten or conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events does not have to mean that some prior sex act but that God works through natural means or laws. Though a virgin birth may not seem to follow natural law as not prior sex act was committed, it does since not all natural laws are known to man." [our Heavenly Father beget Jesus of a virgin] not in violation of natural law but in accordance with amanifestation thereof" (Elder James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ, p. 81).



"You asked about...the birth of the Savior. Never have I talked about sexual intercourse between Deity and the mother of the Savior. If teachers were wise in speaking of this matter about which the Lord has said very little, they would rest their discussion on this subject with merely the words which are recorded on this subject in Luke 1:34-35: “Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Remember that the being who was brought about by [Mary’s] conception was a divine personage. We need not question His method to accomplish His purposes. Perhaps we would do well to remember the words of Isaiah 55:8-9" “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts higher than your thoughts.” Let the Lord rest His case with this declaration and wait until He sees fit to tell us more." (Harold B. Lee, in Clyde E. Williams, ed., The Teachings of Harold B. Lee (Salt Lake City, UT: Bookcraft, Inc.) p. 14)


"Our Lord is the only mortal person ever born to a virgin, because he is the only person who ever had an immortal Father. Mary, his mother, "was carried away in the Spirit" (1 Ne. 11:13-21), was "overshadowed" by the Holy Ghost, and the conception which took place "by the power of the Holy Ghost" resulted in the bringing forth of the literal and personal Son of God the Father. (Alma 7:10; 2 Ne. 17:14; Isa. 7:14; Matt. 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-38.) Christ is not the Son of the Holy Ghost, but of the Father. (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp. 18-20.) Modernistic teachings denying the virgin birth are utterly and completely apostate and false." (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 822)
I think its pretty clear that LDS do believe that "Mary was "with child of the Holy Ghost." (Matt. 1:18; Luke 1:30-35)" I underlined those passage that are directly mention in those quotes. How could Mrs. Tanner miss these important statements? Why did she not include them?

2. Mrs. Tanner gives not citations from the Bible in the LDS positon. One might conclude that LDS don't read the Bible at all when in fact it is in our canon of scripture and we do cite from it in the issues we present.

3. Mrs. Tanner assumes that statements she makes about the Bible are supported in the citations she presents. For example in the "Premortal life" section she says "BIBLE: Only Christ existed before mortality, not man. (John 8:58; Col. 1:17) Our existence started on earth. (Zec. 12:1; 1 Cor. 15:46)" but do these passages really make those statements or is Mrs Tanner reading those conclusions into the text? That is a matter of debate.


4. Mrs. Tanner article misinforms people about the LDS view based on omission of facts. For example in the "Gospel" section she says "LDS: Doctrines and commandments of the LDS Church. True gospel restored by Joseph Smith. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 331; 334; Doctrine of Salvation, Vol. 1, pp. 156-159) verses the "BIBLE: Good news of Christ’s death and resurrection as atonement for our sins. (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Gal. 1:6-8)" Are we to assume that LDS don't believe that the Gospel is not about Christ's death and resurrection and the Atonement? Someone not knowledgable might conclude that. She does not include the following statement by Joseph Smith which I think might be somewhat important to the issue:
Joseph Smith: “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.” (Joseph Smith "Doctrinal History of the Church" Vol 3 p. 30)

We see that Joseph Smith said that Christ death and resurrection are the centerpiece of the LDS religion and everything else is built on that fact. Why did not Mrs Tanner cite this source? She should have mentioned the following passages in the LDS scriptures that define what the gospel is:
D&C 76:40-42: "And this is the gospel, the glad tidings, which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us - That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness; That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him"



3 Nephi 27:13-19: "Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you - that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me. And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil-And for this cause have I been lifted up; therefore, according to the power of the Father I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their works. And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world. And he that endureth not unto the end, the same is he that is also hewn down and cast into the fire, from whence they can no more return, because of the justice of the Father. And this is the word which he hath given unto the children of men. And for this cause he fulfilleth the words which he hath given, and he lieth not, but fulfilleth all his words. And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end."
So in conclusion, she does offer some positives but there are simply too many problems with this article to recommend. I would grade it a D+

[The Bishop]

Biased as most (insert any religion prefixed with anti- ) tend to be. It is childish and in no manner objective in nature. Given that the LDS use the Bible, an examination of LDS and Christian Bible references for their views should have occurred.



Simple single statement examination:

AUTHORITY - PRIESTHOOD

LDS: Believe only LDS have authority to baptize, ordain, etc. Have two-part system of priesthood—Melchizedek and Aaronic. (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 3, p. 80-81; D&C 107:1-21)

BIBLE: Christ brought end to Aaronic priesthood and is the only High Priest after the manner of Melchizedek. (Heb. 5:9-10; 7:11-17; 7:24-27; 2 Tim. 2:2)


Hebrews 5:9-10
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

This provides no evidence denying the claim made by the LDS.
Hebrews 7:11-17
11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Again, can be interpretted such that it does not threaten the LDS position, in fact, use of the phrase "after the order of Melchisedec" implies that there were others of the "order of Melchisedec".
Hebrews 7:24-27
24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
Once again, does not threaten the LDS position
2 Timothy 2:2
2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
does not imply anything other than teaching, performing baptism can thus be held as a priviledge of those given authority.

I only analysed this single subject in my reply, the rest are just as flimsy. Since the attack fails to Biblically support the claim that Christ:
brought end to Aaronic priesthood is the only High Priest after the manner of Melchizedek.I am not going to bother further with this single subject, and will not bother analyzing the rest of the subjects. Also, I am skeptical of the article's claims in general due to such error existent.