Christ in the Cretaceous

[Qoheleth]

A few weeks back, our pastor gave a sermon on the Power & Glory of God. In it he used the passage in Psalms 19 saying that the heavens are declaring the Glory of God. He supplemented it by showing a vast array of Hubble Space Telescope images, from nebulae to the Deep Field to the new awesome ultra Hi-Res photo of the Andromeda Galaxy. It is awe-inspiring to say the least, and does conjure up a sense of the Divine.

He then tied it up into John 1, saying that all things were created through Christ. While most went away firmly refreshed in faith and wonder in God, I was nonplussed. After much reflection I found out why...Christianity is much too small a worldview to contain the vastness of the natural world. The sense of immense awe & wonder instantly vanishes when I insert a theology that restricts itself to a tiny fraction of a moment in a tiny fraction of a land in an incalculably tiny portion of the Universe. Or in other words, I simply fail to find Christ in the Cretaceous.

We scoffed at Copernicus when he dared to suggest that the Earth was not the center of the Universe, but 500 years later we still really haven't gotten away from that philosophy. Yes we realize that technically the Earth revolves around Sol, but theologically we still hold that everything in the quintillions of suns & planets revolves around something that happened in a few hundred square miles. Given what we know about how the natural world works, there is almost certainly other life out there, potentially with their own moral dilemmas. How do you reconcile this paradox? I mean this as an open-ended question to get answers, not to scoff at believers.

[robrecht]

There is no reason why the faith of Christ cannot continue to evolve and encompass all human (and alien) knowledge as it and we continue to evolve. Irenaeus, one of the first Christian theologians, viewed the Incarnation of Christ as the establishment of the communion between God and man, Immanuel, God with us. Christianity is only as limited as is our image of God.

[Cow Poke]

A few weeks back, our pastor gave a sermon on the Power & Glory of God. In it he used the passage in Psalms 19 saying that the heavens are declaring the Glory of God. He supplemented it by showing a vast array of Hubble Space Telescope images, from nebulae to the Deep Field to the new awesome ultra Hi-Res photo of the Andromeda Galaxy. It is awe-inspiring to say the least, and does conjure up a sense of the Divine.

He then tied it up into John 1, saying that all things were created through Christ. While most went away firmly refreshed in faith and wonder in God, I was nonplussed. After much reflection I found out why...Christianity is much too small a worldview to contain the vastness of the natural world. The sense of immense awe & wonder instantly vanishes when I insert a theology that restricts itself to a tiny fraction of a moment in a tiny fraction of a land in an incalculably tiny portion of the Universe. Or in other words, I simply fail to find Christ in the Cretaceous.

We scoffed at Copernicus when he dared to suggest that the Earth was not the center of the Universe, but 500 years later we still really haven't gotten away from that philosophy. Yes we realize that technically the Earth revolves around Sol, but theologically we still hold that everything in the quintillions of suns & planets revolves around something that happened in a few hundred square miles. Given what we know about how the natural world works, there is almost certainly other life out there, potentially with their own moral dilemmas. How do you reconcile this paradox? I mean this as an open-ended question to get answers, not to scoff at believers.

I bloom where I'm planted. I don't yet have the ability to evangelize other planets, so I'm faithful at doing it within the scope of my own influence, as guided by the Holy Spirit.

[mossrose]

Gosh, no other life forms are mentioned in scripture, so, no.

[Cow Poke]

Gosh, no other life forms are mentioned in scripture, so, no.

It's that "other sheep" thing, I guess.

[mossrose]

The other sheep refers to Gentiles. Because the Jews rejected their Messiah.

[Cow Poke]

The other sheep refers to Gentiles. Because the Jews rejected their Messiah.

well, yeah, WE know that....

[The Pixie]

A few weeks back, our pastor gave a sermon on the Power & Glory of God. In it he used the passage in Psalms 19 saying that the heavens are declaring the Glory of God. He supplemented it by showing a vast array of Hubble Space Telescope images, from nebulae to the Deep Field to the new awesome ultra Hi-Res photo of the Andromeda Galaxy. It is awe-inspiring to say the least, and does conjure up a sense of the Divine.

He then tied it up into John 1, saying that all things were created through Christ. While most went away firmly refreshed in faith and wonder in God, I was nonplussed. After much reflection I found out why...Christianity is much too small a worldview to contain the vastness of the natural world. The sense of immense awe & wonder instantly vanishes when I insert a theology that restricts itself to a tiny fraction of a moment in a tiny fraction of a land in an incalculably tiny portion of the Universe. Or in other words, I simply fail to find Christ in the Cretaceous.

We scoffed at Copernicus when he dared to suggest that the Earth was not the center of the Universe, but 500 years later we still really haven't gotten away from that philosophy. Yes we realize that technically the Earth revolves around Sol, but theologically we still hold that everything in the quintillions of suns & planets revolves around something that happened in a few hundred square miles. Given what we know about how the natural world works, there is almost certainly other life out there, potentially with their own moral dilemmas. How do you reconcile this paradox? I mean this as an open-ended question to get answers, not to scoff at believers.

It is interesting to ponder whether aliens in the andromeda galaxy were also affected by the Fall (and was the Fall instant across the universe, or does it propagate at the speed of light?). Did Jesus sacrifice himself just for denizens of this planet? Or did the Romans provide the means for a sacrifice that saves possibly infinite numbers of alien races?

[seanD]

There is no reason why the faith of Christ cannot continue to evolve and encompass all human (and alien) knowledge as it and we continue to evolve. Irenaeus, one of the first Christian theologians, viewed the Incarnation of Christ as the establishment of the communion between God and man, Immanuel, God with us. Christianity is only as limited as is our image of God.

The problem is with the definition of "alien" and what that entails. What if you couldn't (or aren't able to) tell the difference between a created (supernatural) alien and an "evolved" (biological) alien?

[robrecht]

The problem is with the definition of "alien" and what that entails. What if you couldn't (or aren't able to) tell the difference between a created (supernatural) alien and an "evolved" (biological) alien?

I don't really worry about such things.

[Catholicity]

I don't really worry about such things.

I don't either. not my arena

[Qoheleth]

There is no reason why the faith of Christ cannot continue to evolve and encompass all human (and alien) knowledge as it and we continue to evolve. Irenaeus, one of the first Christian theologians, viewed the Incarnation of Christ as the establishment of the communion between God and man, Immanuel, God with us. Christianity is only as limited as is our image of God.

Yeah I suppose it **could**, but man how much do I have to suspend disbelief to think that the entirety of the cosmos and all sentient life it potentially encompasses, was redeemed when a Jewish carpenter & itinerant preacher was crucified for blasphemy 2,000 years ago. That just doesn't satisfy I suppose...at best it just stretches out infinitely the problem of the "Holy Heathen" (i.e. those who lived a good moral life but never received the Gospel message).

And furthermore, those who do believe will all life together on this Earth when Heaven comes down to form a New Jerusalem! Might get a little crowded (I would hope) !

[shunyadragon]

A few weeks back, our pastor gave a sermon on the Power & Glory of God. In it he used the passage in Psalms 19 saying that the heavens are declaring the Glory of God. He supplemented it by showing a vast array of Hubble Space Telescope images, from nebulae to the Deep Field to the new awesome ultra Hi-Res photo of the Andromeda Galaxy. It is awe-inspiring to say the least, and does conjure up a sense of the Divine.

He then tied it up into John 1, saying that all things were created through Christ. While most went away firmly refreshed in faith and wonder in God, I was nonplussed. After much reflection I found out why...Christianity is much too small a worldview to contain the vastness of the natural world. The sense of immense awe & wonder instantly vanishes when I insert a theology that restricts itself to a tiny fraction of a moment in a tiny fraction of a land in an incalculably tiny portion of the Universe. Or in other words, I simply fail to find Christ in the Cretaceous.

We scoffed at Copernicus when he dared to suggest that the Earth was not the center of the Universe, but 500 years later we still really haven't gotten away from that philosophy. Yes we realize that technically the Earth revolves around Sol, but theologically we still hold that everything in the quintillions of suns & planets revolves around something that happened in a few hundred square miles. Given what we know about how the natural world works, there is almost certainly other life out there, potentially with their own moral dilemmas. How do you reconcile this paradox? I mean this as an open-ended question to get answers, not to scoff at believers.

It is hard to accept ancient scripture from an ancient perspective as guidance for understanding the physical nature of the universe. Unfortunately, the doctrines and dogmas are interwoven with the ancient Genesis scripture as the Fall, Original Sin, the Flood and the traditonal Christian purpose of Jesus Christ. Many Christians can rational reinterpret the ancient scripture to make it fit science, but many if not most cannot.

I am at present a Baha'i, because it part acknowledges an evolving spiritual nature of humanity and our physical existence throughout the history of humanity and beyond. Scriptures and beliefs of ancient religions reflect the world view of God and the spiritual nature of the human journey of the time the Revelation took place.

The technology of special effects in the modern world make good band-aids to hold people in place.

Of course, everything is in pencil, nothing is necessary, and everything is impermanent.

[seanD]

I don't really worry about such things.

It's not a matter of worrying about it, I was just juxtaposing what you said in the discussion (and also because you're basically parroting what the pope recently said). Maybe it's more complex than assuming hypothetical aliens can be saved and then ending the discussion there.

[Cow Poke]

I don't really worry about such things.

Me, too, neither.