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Bob Jenkins
August 30th 2003, 09:47 PM
http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/news/news.php?article=5554

20-08-2003

By Rob Phillips

RIDGECREST, N.C. (BP)--Islam is rising in America, not because of its strength, but because of the retreat of the church, and if the religion founded by Muhammad 1,400 years ago continues to grow at its current rate, there will be more Muslims than Christians in every major U.S. city by 2020.

The observations were voiced by Islam expert Carl Ellis during the Aug. 15-17 National Conference on Islam cosponsored by LifeWay Christian Resources and the North American Mission Board's interfaith evangelism team at LifeWay's Ridgecrest (N.C.) Conference Center.

Ellis is co-founder of Project Joseph, an effort to educate the church about contemporary issues. An expert on Islam who travels around the world and speaks extensively on the subject, he was among the conference's featured speakers.

Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the world, with 1.2 billion devotees, with Ellis reporting its growth at 2.75 percent per year. By some accounts, Muslims will overtake the current 1.8 billion Christians by 2020.

In America, where there are an estimated 7 million followers, Islam is growing at a 6 percent annual rate. White Americans are the fastest-growing segment of U.S. Islam, and 80-85 percent of all U.S. Muslims consider themselves former Christians. If present trends continue, every major U.S. city will be predominantly Muslim by 2020, Ellis warned.

"We must understand that there is a comprehensive plan in progress to Islamicize America and the West," said Ellis, noting that since 1973 the Organization of Islamic Conference has spent about $105 billion in this effort, much of it funded by Middle East oil revenues.

If this troubles Christians, as it should, they need not look at Islam's success, but at Christianity's failure, Ellis said. "The church in America has reduced the Gospel of the Kingdom to peddling personal fire insurance. As I talk to Muslims who have left the church, I find that they don't feel the church addresses their issues and needs -- yet the Bible speaks to every one of them."

Two axioms must guide Christian thinking about Islam, Ellis said. First, Islam is a system, while Muslims are people. Christians must challenge Islam and love Muslims. Second, there are three things a Muslim has no defense against -- the prayers of the saints, the love of the saints and the wise application of the Word of God to their core issues.

"I find among Muslims a sincere desire to be right with God -- especially among American converts," Ellis said, noting that he has personally seen more than 1,800 leave Islam and place their trust in Christ, often at great risk to their lives since Islam teaches that leaving the religion is a capital offense.

Ellis described Islam as a "works-righteousness treadmill. There is no assurance of salvation -- with the possible exception of dying in jihad." While many Muslims ultimately embrace the Gospel because of its message of God's grace, Ellis said the church has not adequately prepared believers to share that message. "We have neglected the teachings of the Bible. I suspect Islam is rising, not because of the strength they have, but because of the retreat of the church."

Ellis said what's happening in America -- the decline of the church -- is what already has happened in other parts of the world. "People used to say Islam would never take hold in the Holy Land because Christianity was too strong. But look at Jerusalem, where the Mosque of Omar, the third most holy place in Islam, sits atop the ruins of the temple where Jesus taught.

"People used to say Islam would never take hold in Antioch, where Jesus' disciples were first called Christians. But today it's in the grip of Islam.

"People used to say Islam would never take hold in Asia Minor, where the seven churches of Revelation were. But today this is Turkey, and Turkey is a Muslim nation. The same was said about North Africa, where Islam reigns today. Can anyone say America is safe as a Christian nation?"

Still, Ellis is hopeful. He said if Christians return to the Bible, embrace and engage Muslims in loving dialogue, the Gospel message will water the "dry well" of Islam. "At the end of the day, Isaiah 55:11 is still true -- God's Word will not return to Him void," Ellis said. "I count on the Word of God to do its work, if we will do ours."

Sayeb
September 2nd 2003, 12:30 AM
08-31-2003 @ 02:47 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=199685#post199685)
Bob Jenkins:


If this troubles Christians, as it should, they need not look at Islam's success, but at Christianity's failure, Ellis said. "The church in America has reduced the Gospel of the Kingdom to peddling personal fire insurance. As I talk to Muslims who have left the church, I find that they don't feel the church addresses their issues and needs -- yet the Bible speaks to every one of them."

Do not blame your incompetence on religion blame it on yourself and your society to think that Islam is a threat would be ludicrous. The only one who can threat you is yourself and your fear. If you do believe in a religion you have chosen then you will have a firm faith saying that whatever happens you believe in your God and in His words and He will always be beside you and defend you if you are right.

HerodionRomulus
September 10th 2003, 07:16 PM
FYI
The largest mosque(and yes--it's huge) in the western hemisphere is in Caracas Venezuela--an OPEC country.

Dr T
September 16th 2003, 04:46 AM
09-02-2003 @ 05:30 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=200913#post200913)
Sayeb:



Do not blame your incompetence on religion blame it on yourself and your society to think that Islam is a threat would be ludicrous. The only one who can threat you is yourself and your fear. If you do believe in a religion you have chosen then you will have a firm faith saying that whatever happens you believe in your God and in His words and He will always be beside you and defend you if you are right.

You are rght of course, in terms of global Christanity then this will always thrive in the way that God wants it to.

However that doesn't mean that Islam isn't a threat. It is. It is a particulary aggressive threat which will use any means to put itself in top position. Following rules when weak, using force when strong. Even as we speak Islam is using violence to eradicate non muslims in Sudan, Indonesia, Pakistan, parts of Russia, Nigeria. It is involved in wars in China, Kashmire, Palestine , Phillopines.
From the time of their prophet until 1689 Islam came at the point of a sword, today it can't do that any more, so it uses the vast wealth of the ME to convert by force where it can and to fuel missionary activity where it can't.
It is always possible for some to say it is just another religion, but it isn't, because it's core message is subjugation and elimination of any other religion (and those with no religon) by any means.
If we don't want the constant strife that goes alongside Islam then we do need to take heed of the message above.
Of course the biggest strife with Islam is Muslim on Muslim violence (take Pakistan for example).

How do you trust memebers of a particular religion who actually lie about the name of their religion?

How many times have you heard that Islam means peace?

Well it doesn't Islam means submission.
Salaam is the word for peace.

I have no doubts that God will defeat Islam, but the stronger Islam gets the worse the reaconking will be, both for Muslims and every one else.

Ryokan
September 16th 2003, 06:48 AM
I, personally, am skeptical that Islam will overtake the Xtianity as the US's #1 religion. It is growing fast, but largely in the black population. It is a liberation religion there, like Xtianity in the South.

Dr T
September 16th 2003, 08:09 AM
Today @ 11:48 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=212791#post212791)
Ryokan:

I, personally, am skeptical that Islam will overtake the Xtianity as the US's #1 religion. It is growing fast, but largely in the black population. It is a liberation religion there, like Xtianity in the South.

I have to admit that it often seems that the numbers quoted by Muslims seem to be way over the top.
I seem to remember that the estimate of the number of Muslims in the US was in the 7 to 10 million range, but isn't now accepted to be around 4 million, including MINO.

I find it really odd that any black person would convert to Islam.
Islam was always heavily involved in slavery, and still is. For example despite the fact that Maurentania outlawed slavery in the 1980s, black Muslims are still being enslaved to Arab muslims to this day.

Islam endorsed slavery (Mohammed was a slave owner and trader) until forced to do otherwise. The last open slave market in Zanzibar being shut down by the Bristish and French in 1888 (roughly). Saudi only outlawed slavery (officially) in the 1960s.

One of the Muslims traditions is that when Mohammed was asked what the devil looked like, he pointed to one of his black slaves.
I think it is true to say that to this day Arabs prefer a lighter skin colour because of this.

Mohammed also had a thing about dogs, particularly black dogs, and when his army forced Mecca to surrender his second order (his first being the execution of some personal enemies) was for all dogs to be killed. Some of his followers protested and I think only the black dogs were killed in the end.

HerodionRomulus
September 16th 2003, 06:40 PM
For centuries in Africa, the pattern for the spread of Islam was via slavery.
Raiding parties across the deserts into sub-Saharan Africa, raids along the eastern coast, capturing slaves, killing the men, male children and old women, taking the young fecund females to add as concubines. They were bred as much as possible and the result was children who were raised as Muslims and so the religion spread.
This continued for centuries. Ever notice how many Arabs seem to have African features?

Dr T
September 17th 2003, 07:23 AM
Yesterday @ 11:40 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=213271#post213271)
HerodionRomulus:

For centuries in Africa, the pattern for the spread of Islam was via slavery.
Raiding parties across the deserts into sub-Saharan Africa, raids along the eastern coast, capturing slaves, killing the men, male children and old women, taking the young fecund females to add as concubines. They were bred as much as possible and the result was children who were raised as Muslims and so the religion spread.
This continued for centuries. Ever notice how many Arabs seem to have African features?

So how did we get to the point where some people leave Christanity to move to Islam because of slavery.

I would regard the greatest acheivement of the British empire was it's role in the abolition of slavery. It could have continued to make a lot of money out of it, and very few other people were interested, certainly not the Islamic states.
Yet today in Britain all you hear is how the British Empire was involved in it, and nothing of it's role in it's demise (now appearing to be temproary).