Strange bedfellows?

[Bill the Cat]

I often look at who is associated with my political party and gauge just how tolerable they are to the party. I am a Republican :eek: and I see the worst bedfellows for me are the ultra-right wing whackos like Fred Phelps and the "I don't care about the environment" types that dump toxic waste into our rivers and lakes. I am beginning to find especially the latter practice to be unacceptable. However, I can not look across the aisle and support what I see as some of the driving forces of the left, ie. abortion on demand, normalization of homosexuality, outdated "equal opportunity" proponents, and the like. Unfortunately, there are political lobbies in both major parties that I find untennable. Those who are in bed with the political platform of each party are typically the targets of the other side. I am really tiring of the political games. What's a guy to do?

Sorry for rambling on. I'd like to hear other peoples' thoughts on this issue, but PLEASE, no flame wars...

[Darth Executor]

Are you sure phelps is right wing?

[Bill the Cat]

Yes. He supports only Republican Candidates IIRC

[SteveF]

From a leftist/liberal perspective, some of the groups you mention (e.g. gay rights) are generally consistent with the philosophies held by this particular political position.

However, what I do find increasingly extraordinary is the degree to which my fellow liberals are prepared to associate themselves with extreme far right Islamists. Frequently, members of parties of the left (in the UK at least) share platforms with people who believe it is acceptable for homosexuals to be stoned to death, fox example.

Nick Cohen has articulated this very well:

The extract in today's Observer marks the launch of What's Left? How Liberals Lost Their Way. The book is a history of a phenomenon that is so commonplace now hardly anyone notices it: the willingness of people on the liberal-left to support or, more often, excuse or explain away totalitarian movements of the ultra right. The reverse side of this debased coin is if anything an even more depressing story. Solidarity - the noblest virtue of the old left - vanishes as people who call themselves feminists, socialists and liberals in the rich world refuse to support the victims of fascistic religious and secular movements, even when those victims share their values. As long as the persecutors are anti-American, their slaughters cannot be condemned unequivocally.

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/nick_cohen/2007/01/the_world_turned_upside_down.html

[Bill the Cat]

Hey Steve,

Thanks for the quote. That is exactly what I am talking about from both sides. The bedfellows that we have are soiling the ideals of the base party, hijacking the party for extremism. It worries me greatly and causes me to question whether or not to even vote any more... :nsm:

[Sir-Think-A-Lot]

I often look at who is associated with my political party and gauge just how tolerable they are to the party. I am a Republican :eek: and I see the worst bedfellows for me are the ultra-right wing whackos like Fred Phelps and the "I don't care about the environment" types that dump toxic waste into our rivers and lakes. I am beginning to find especially the latter practice to be unacceptable. However, I can not look across the aisle and support what I see as some of the driving forces of the left, ie. abortion on demand, normalization of homosexuality, outdated "equal opportunity" proponents, and the like. Unfortunately, there are political lobbies in both major parties that I find untennable. Those who are in bed with the political platform of each party are typically the targets of the other side. I am really tiring of the political games. What's a guy to do?

Do what I do. refuse to support either party.

[Timothy Leary]

You're in a big tent party, what can we say? Maybe you should consider the Constitution Party instead.

[SteveF]

I'm revisiting this thread to elaborate on my earlier post, in light of some recent cases in German. Continuing on my theme of liberals siding with illiberals, check this madness out:

A Lebanese-German who strangled his daughter Ibthahale and then beat her unconscious with a bludgeon because she didn't want to marry the man he had picked out for her was sentenced to mere probation. His "cultural background" was cited by the judge as a mitigating factor.

http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_a_l/johann_hari/article2496657.ece

Check out the article for more absolutely horrendous cases. Nothing makes me angrier than this. Here is the conclusion:

We desperately need to empower Muslim women to reinterpret the Koran in less literalist and vicious ways, or to leave their religion all together, as they wish. But multiculturalism hobbles them before they even begin, by saying they should stick to the "authentic" culture represented by the imams.

Yes, it would be easy to keep our heads down, go with this multicultural drift, and congratulate ourselves on our tolerance of the fanatically intolerant. But I can give you a few good reasons not to. Their names are Nishal and Ibthahale and Zeynep and Fatima, and, yes, they were women.

[LostSheep]

Continuing on my theme of liberals siding with illiberals, check this madness out:

.......


SteveF,

Good post. That's precisely the kind of thing that makes me despise liberals and others suffering from moral relativism.

[Genesius]

I guess the best thing one can hope for when supporting a 'big tent' party is that a candidate is presented who best represents your positions. For the most part the extremes of either side are not very well represented by successful election. A successful candidate does not usually represent or hold to the values of the extremes. As long as the extremes have less voting power than the more rational view points, the more centrist candidates will win. This means that you as a voter have greater and greater responsibility to voice your opinion and head for the polls.

edit: The biggest problems when it becomes party vs. party politics and people vote for their respective parties just to ensure the other one does not get in. In this situation people tend to become ignorant of the issues and do not take a personal stand on policy. I'm afraid that this is what democracy looks like these days, the party system may be failing.

[Jackie Fox]

Bill, pretty much all our choices in elections amount to "lesser of two evils". I ran for office at the urging of friends but I wasn't all that good and the guy who beat wasn't all that bad.

I'm a Democrat and I kind of feel the way you do about anti-gun people and "developers" though they contribute to both parties often. I don't see much difference between Fred Phelps and James Dobson myself.