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Are we failures because we sin?

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  • Are we failures because we sin?

    Are we failures because we sin?

    Were Adam and Eve failures because they sinned?

    Are we successful, if we humbly accept God’s charity in the form of forgiveness?

    Were Adam and Eve set up by God to fail since they sinned?

    Were we all set up for failure by God since we all sin?

    Did God do all He could and set up every mature adult so they could be successful?

  • #2
    As for you your last question, take a look at Isaiah 5:1-4 and the song of the vineyard.

    Scripture Verse: Isaiah 5:3-4

    And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem and men of Judah,
    Judge, please, between Me and My vineyard.
    What more could have been done to My vineyard
    That I have not done in it?
    Why then, when I expected it to bring forth good grapes,
    Did it bring forth wild grapes?

    © Copyright Original Source

    We know J6 wasn’t peaceful because they didn’t set the building on fire.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by bling View Post
      Are we failures because we sin?

      Were Adam and Eve failures because they sinned?

      Are we successful, if we humbly accept God’s charity in the form of forgiveness?

      Were Adam and Eve set up by God to fail since they sinned?

      Were we all set up for failure by God since we all sin?

      Did God do all He could and set up every mature adult so they could be successful?
      You're starting from the unnecessary assumption that God created two human beings who failed in the first generation. With that perspective it sure looks like a set up and doomed to fail. Theologians have considered the problems of that literal view and proposed alternatives that lessen the emphasis on the fall as the triggering event of the incarnation. Consider that maybe Jesus planned to incarnate all along rather than in response to a suspiciously mythological sounding event as the fall.

      What's the likelihood that human beings could ever remain perfect if the Bible says they failed from the get go? That doesn't bode well for the soundness of the plan. That's why you have permission to not view it literally.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by bling View Post
        Are we failures because we sin?

        Were Adam and Eve failures because they sinned?

        Are we successful, if we humbly accept God’s charity in the form of forgiveness?

        Were Adam and Eve set up by God to fail since they sinned?

        Were we all set up for failure by God since we all sin?

        Did God do all He could and set up every mature adult so they could be successful?
        This problem only exists in the ancient world view assumptions of the view of traditional Christianity concerning the Biblical text of Genesis and the NT interpretation of this text. The reality is that humanity is distinctly naturally fallible human, and by the evidence humanity has had the same basic nature since humanity has been human hundreds of thousands if not over a million years ago.

        whag's post gave a good explanation that this ancient world view is in contradiction of everything we know concerning the nature of being human today
        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by whag View Post
          You're starting from the unnecessary assumption that God created two human beings who failed in the first generation. With that perspective it sure looks like a set up and doomed to fail. Theologians have considered the problems of that literal view and proposed alternatives that lessen the emphasis on the fall as the triggering event of the incarnation. Consider that maybe Jesus planned to incarnate all along rather than in response to a suspiciously mythological sounding event as the fall.

          What's the likelihood that human beings could ever remain perfect if the Bible says they failed from the get go? That doesn't bode well for the soundness of the plan. That's why you have permission to not view it literally.
          For the most part you do not have to believe Adam and Eve were literal people to understand what is being taught.
          I do not think humans start out as sinners, but only after reaching the mature adult point being accountable for their sins are they sinners.
          We tell our children: “If you do your best you are a winner”, but even doing our best we would still sin, so what makes us a winner? If we win the race Paul says we are in are we winners or failures?

          We certainly are not perfect, but does being imperfect make us a failure in God’s eyes?

          We are really just trying to please God, so how do we succeed with that goal or is that an impossible goal?

          In the father’s eyes did the father fail with the prodigal son (Luke 15: 11-32) and was the prodigal son a failure or a success?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by bling View Post
            For the most part you do not have to believe Adam and Eve were literal people to understand what is being taught.
            For the most part?

            Originally posted by bling View Post
            I do not think humans start out as sinners, but only after reaching the mature adult point being accountable for their sins are they sinners.
            We tell our children: “If you do your best you are a winner”, but even doing our best we would still sin, so what makes us a winner? If we win the race Paul says we are in are we winners or failures?

            We certainly are not perfect, but does being imperfect make us a failure in God’s eyes?
            I'm not sure why you're asking this. The biblical answer very clearly is you are a winner if you believe, despite the fact that you sin.

            Originally posted by bling View Post

            We are really just trying to please, so how do we succeed with that goal or is that an impossible goal?

            In the father’s eyes did the father fail with the prodigal son (Luke 15: 11-32) and was the prodigal son a failure or a success?
            The biblical answer is clear. Believers are succeeders. Why are you asking these questions?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by whag View Post
              For the most part?
              You would have to believe in a literal Adam and Eve to support the concept of the New Testament writers being inspired to write about Adam and Eve as being literal the first people.

              I'm not sure why you're asking this. The biblical answer very clearly is you are a winner if you believe, despite the fact that you sin.



              The biblical answer is clear. Believers are succeeders. Why are you asking these questions?
              Sin is not the problem while unforgiven sin is a huge problem. Man’s objective does not have to do with not sinning, but with obtaining and growing Godly type Love.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by bling View Post


                Sin is not the problem while unforgiven sin is a huge problem. Man’s objective does not have to do with not sinning, but with obtaining and growing Godly type Love.
                The type of love that doesn't forgive Mormons for being enculturated differently, you mean?

                Comment

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