Why is eschatology important?

[theinternalist]

I've got a degree in biblical studies, and I honestly can't see much more than a minimal value in spending more than a few hours or days on the subject. Can anyone help me see the biblical grounds for taking it as a more important long-term focus for study than, for example, soteriology or theological anthropology? Besides biblical grounds, is the personal payoff for studying it as great as, say, studying human relationships or how happiness relates to knowledge of God?

Thanks for the help.

[Chief of Staff Lizard]

I think having the "right" eschatlogy is important, but once you have that, then I see no grounds for "uber" study (though what "the right" eschatology is, is subject to much debate).

The personal pay off comes whith a proper view of end times. If the Church can be raptured at any time and if that time is undobtedly soon (as many think) then your actions should be based on that. If the second coming is still several generations away (at least) and the world will be getting more and more Christianized (as some people think) then your actions should be based on that.

So, IMHO, having a proper eschatology is important. The trick is knowing when you have studied enough to have a good certainty that your eschatology is the "right" eschatlogy.

Compounding that, there are several very inteligent people right here at TWeb who have spent a great deal of time in earnest study of eschatology, and have come up with very different views. So who is right?


(Well, I am right, but don't tell Bill the Cat :wink: )

[The Silent Q]

I spent my final semester in college studying apocalyptic literature, and the conclusion that we came to was that knowing what was going to happen and when it was going to happen were really unimportant compared to what we're supposed to do now.

I think the study of eschatology can be fascinating but overall it's speculation. The message of the apocalyptic texts is that what is important is what we do now. Daniel, Mark 13, and Revelation pretty much all say that in one way or another.

I think eschatology can be important depending on the view that you hold. As Faramir said, if you hold to an eschatology that suggests that Jesus could return at any point or that the rapture (if you believe it will happen) is imminent, that should affect the way a person lives his or her life. But I think as long as you affirm that Jesus will return again, what's more important is how we live now rather than speculating what will happen in the future.

[furay]

if you hold to an eschatology that suggests that Jesus could return at any point or that the rapture (if you believe it will happen) is imminent, that should affect the way a person lives his or her life.
Why? Couldn't we slip on a bar of soap in the shower and snap our neck tomorrow? Or slam into a tree at 80 miles an hour? Or have a massive heart attack or stroke? Or any number of things that would end our life with little to no preparation. How is that different from the rapture? Either way we meet our Maker and will be judged for our actions.

[Jin-Roh]

I've got a degree in biblical studies, and I honestly can't see much more than a minimal value in spending more than a few hours or days on the subject. Can anyone help me see the biblical grounds for taking it as a more important long-term focus for study than, for example, soteriology or theological anthropology? Besides biblical grounds, is the personal payoff for studying it as great as, say, studying human relationships or how happiness relates to knowledge of God?

Thanks for the help.

Well I think that you don't have to go to far to understand how it might effect someone's politics. I lot of people have come hard (and I believe rightly so) for supporting Israel only becuase of alleged prophecies. Also, differing opinions on something like "will this world get destroyed or will this world get renewed?" effects how a Christian might veiw something like environmental policy. Just in general, I've noticed how eschatology seems to tie in with a Christian's poltical conscience.

When I was training for my Job at a Charter school the subject came up. One of my trainers is a Nun and many others are catholic clergy. The subject of global warming came up in casual conversation during a break. Apparently, she had heard of some speaker say that global warming didn't really matter becuase it just meant that Jesus was coming back faster. If that's not an example of some consequences of Eschatology, I don't know what is.

[The Silent Q]

Why? Couldn't we slip on a bar of soap in the shower and snap our neck tomorrow? Or slam into a tree at 80 miles an hour? Or have a massive heart attack or stroke? Or any number of things that would end our life with little to no preparation. How is that different from the rapture? Either way we meet our Maker and will be judged for our actions.
Well, I suppose for me personally, it makes a difference in that I don't think the rapture is actually spoken about in scripture and thus don't think it's going to happen. But that's for another thread.

That being said, you bring up a good point. To respond, I'm not a huge fan of the philosophy of "live each day as though it's your last." I can't give you any sort of academic or intellectual reason why. I don't think we're supposed to be focused on our possible imminent death. I see more of a call in Scripture to live, living fully, and focus on helping others live life fully, especially those who live in less-than-ideal circumstances (orphans, widows, the poor, etc.) Again, it's why I feel that eschatology is fun for speculation but not one that needs a whole lot of time given to it.

[Chief of Staff Lizard]

Why? Couldn't we slip on a bar of soap in the shower and snap our neck tomorrow? Or slam into a tree at 80 miles an hour? Or have a massive heart attack or stroke? Or any number of things that would end our life with little to no preparation. How is that different from the rapture? Either way we meet our Maker and will be judged for our actions.

Well, there is a difference between "I could die at any time" and "The world is getting worse and worse, and this is predicted by prohecy so there is nothing we can do about it except eagerly await the rapture (No, that is NOT an exageration, not all pre-mills have this attitude but many do)."

[Lady Gooner]

I've got a degree in biblical studies, and I honestly can't see much more than a minimal value in spending more than a few hours or days on the subject. Can anyone help me see the biblical grounds for taking it as a more important long-term focus for study than, for example, soteriology or theological anthropology? Besides biblical grounds, is the personal payoff for studying it as great as, say, studying human relationships or how happiness relates to knowledge of God?

Thanks for the help.



Throughout the Bible the subject of eschatology crops up so it is important to have a handle on it . The "right" eschatology to have is one that is Christ centered, That way it reminds us we are.....

saved by hope.
there is a blessing promised with the reading of Revelation
our eternal future lies beyond the veil.


People who get obsessed over bar codes, the nation of Israel, the EU, and other little things could be on the fast track to the nut house.


So the bottom line is this. Are you wanting to study eschatology to understand Jesus and His kingdom better or do you just want to have the answer to the puzzle that no man knows? Jesus is God and what he said was true. Christ's sacrifice on the cross and His kingdom are the things we must keep in mind when reading any part of scripture, when we study the Bible we should remember that Christ is all and in all. It's all about Him and His Kingdom.

The essential matter is not knowing who the Beast is it’s knowing who God is

Unfortunately discussions on eschatology often get heated and somehow we forget that we are all the body of Christ. They can detract or at least sidetrack us from what we should be doing~ redeeming the time, standing, being participators in the gospel~ If we remember we are one body then alls fair in love and eschatology discussions.

I am comforted to know that whilst we need strong doctrine to live a godly and holy life we also need to enter into His rest and a deeper loving and intimate relationship with Him, that He be the source of our living water, that is just what I believe, I could be wrong I have known to be, but in any case may you find the peace of Him who passes all understanding and have godliness with contentment as that is great gain and may you enter into the fullness that is Christ. With or without an eschatalogical position

:eek:

[furay]

Well, there is a difference between "I could die at any time" and "The world is getting worse and worse, and this is predicted by prohecy so there is nothing we can do about it except eagerly await the rapture (No, that is NOT an exageration, not all pre-mills have this attitude but many do)."
Good point.

[Secretary of Defense Crow]

Well, there is a difference between "I could die at any time" and "The world is getting worse and worse, and this is predicted by prohecy so there is nothing we can do about it except eagerly await the rapture (No, that is NOT an exageration, not all pre-mills have this attitude but many do)."

Yeah, I see that a lot and it's like "slough off until the end is nigh then clean up and look busy because the boss is going to show up at the office."

Maybe I'm missing something, but to me there is no difference in what we should be doing or how we should be conducting ourselves if it all ends tomorrow, next year, 100 years from now, or whatever. God did not give us the book of Revelation so we could be clock watchers and neaten up before He returns.

[Chief of Staff Lizard]

Yeah, I see that a lot and it's like "slough off until the end is nigh then clean up and look busy because the boss is going to show up at the office."

Maybe I'm missing something, but to me there is no difference in what we should be doing or how we should be conducting ourselves if it all ends tomorrow, next year, 100 years from now, or whatever. God did not give us the book of Revelation so we could be clock watchers and neaten up before He returns.

My point exactly. (and this was my position when I was a premiller. I just don't get some people.)

[Secretary of Defense Crow]

My point exactly. (and this was my position when I was a premiller. I just don't get some people.)

This is a suspicion of mine, and by no means do I think that it applies to most of the perpetually seeing "the end is near, like this year" crowd. I've honestly gotten the impression from a few people of that persuasion that their relationship with God first and foremost is that of a person who smells smoke, doesn't care to fight fire, and has spied a convenient fire escape.

[Jin-Roh]

My experience was similiar. I remember when I was in Assemblies of God for a number of years the rapture rhetoric always seemed to conflict at times with other ideas. I remember the pastor's wife and this visiting end-times revivalist guy (he came around about once a year) would convince the audience that Jesus was coming back in two weeks or something. It really doesn't help plan long term for things, like say missions organizations. Why bother doing anything when you know you don't have the time to get much accomplished?

[Barraco]

Its important in the fact that it builds up the Church and keeps it out of complacency, lest Christ remove our candlestick. Most importantly, the resurrection and return of Christ are the basics of eschatology, as well as the judgement of the wicked. Revelation itself ties in the heart of situations that Churches must face. Eschatology is also evidence to the believer of how close we are, encouraging us through tough times.

[Hitch]

Its important in the fact that it builds up the Church and keeps it out of complacency, lest Christ remove our candlestick. Most importantly, the resurrection and return of Christ are the basics of eschatology, as well as the judgement of the wicked. Revelation itself ties in the heart of situations that Churches must face. Eschatology is also evidence to the believer of how close we are, encouraging us through tough times.That slike telling kids there really is a monster in the closet so stay in bed.

At some point they will no longer take you seriously. And if anything in particualr causes the removal of the AOG candelstick it will be her long pactice of lies and deceptions 'for the good of the children'.


Hitch

[mikewhitney]

If Christians are going to let all sorts of wars take place in the Middle East in the name of their interpretation of prophecy, they better make sure that their interpretation is correct.

Speaking from Orthodox Preterism, it seems that the Church needs some people who can speak convincingly of the best interpretation of Eschatology. This would help many believers reduce wasted time waiting for the end times.

I do think that the end-times zeal decreased after the 40-year period subsequent to the forming of the country now called "Israel."

[dizzle]

Amen.

[Jin-Roh]

I do think that the end-times zeal decreased after the 40-year period subsequent to the forming of the country now called "Israel."

Don't worry. I'm sure that people will revise their prophetic understanding -if they haven't already- and maintian popularity. It worked for Joseph Smith after all.

[David_A_Reed]

“But as the days of Noah were, so shall the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

…Watch, therefore; for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

...and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming...The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him..." (Matthew 24:37-50 KJV)

David

[spauline]

Obvioulsy, fully knowing and understanding the apocalyptic mysteries is not necesary for salvation. It would be sufficient at this point if a Catholic did not care about this subject other than what the CCC says.

And yet, I cannot relegate the apoc to utter irrelevance. One problem is, neither extremes get it right, and herein I speak of futurism and preterism. For they each, in their own way, reduce the subject to temporal BS of, respecitvely, the end of the world and the beginning of Church history.

From an orthodox Catholic standpoint, it is just as useless to know that Jerusalem fell in five months and that there were 7 Herodian kings and 10 Roman Emperors in the Apostolic age as it is to know that people who are not literal Jews will be "tortured" by helicopters for five months and that the Antichris will be a literal eighth "end-time" king who literally comes back to life.

But, even beyond this, I say Amen that we must work for renewal, and yet, herein the apocalypse becomes utterly relevant, for to speak of possible renewal of the modern minor apostasy is inseperable from ecclesiological questions, for the modern great lack of faith in the Global North has its seeds in the ecclesiological rifts (and bad Catholic clergy are more to blame for this than the poor material heretics who are doing the best they can to find God). But ecclesiological rifts are a part of Cathoic doctrine and history. Hence, since the apoc is really about the overall Plan of God for the Redemption of humanity in history, questions of where the world is going spiritually are at the heart of seeking renewal, which in turn is inseparable from ecclesiology.

Christ did not come to tell us, "There will be ten Roman Emperoros in the first century", nor did he did he come to tell us, "There will be ten literal subdivisions in the EU at the end of the world", but, on the other hand, in His Eucharistic prayer in John 17, he prayed, "Father, I pray that they may be one, even as you and I are one, in order that the world may beleive that you sent me....that they may be brought to perfection as one..."

[Barraco]

That slike telling kids there really is a monster in the closet so stay in bed.

At some point they will no longer take you seriously. And if anything in particualr causes the removal of the AOG candelstick it will be her long pactice of lies and deceptions 'for the good of the children'.


Hitch

Revelation isn't about scaring people. It was never meant to scare people. It was written long before our minds were shaped by graphic imagination that has come about since the Renaissance.

What Revelation is, is a message to the Churches of all generations, showing a history of the Church until Christ returns, and what to do until then. The same problems that Christ addressed the seven Churches in Asia Minor are the same problems we have today.

We have some Churches in survival mode that stopped ministering to people and spreading the Gospel.

We have some Churches that receive heavy persecution and no support from mainstream Christianity.

We have some Churches that incorporate pagan practices into their catechisms.

We have some Churches that Lord it over other Churches while they are the wretched bowl of lies themselves.

We have some Churches that have a name but are nothing more.

We have some Churches that show brotherly love to each other and need nothing but to continue in that way. For Christ desired that we would be one, just as the Son and the Father are One.

We also have some Churches that are so rich that they think they have need of nothing and spend all their budget on a nice and costly building to look appealing when in reality they are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and hungry for direction. There are real problems that go on in the Church and outside of the Church. But instead of getting involved with each other and investing time and love into each other's lives, they just throw some money at them and hope that solves their problems.


Christ said He would come like a thief in the night. These messages are messages to keep us watchful. If we let the problems described get us down, hold us back, or turn us around completely, we will not be found presentable when Christ returns. These messages are not primarily messages to individuals, they are messages to assemblies.

I think the application of Revelation is very advantageous to the Gospel and to the growth of the Church. God bless

[timspong]

I think Eschatology is very important as it ties up all the loose ends and you come to realize the perfect dynamic consistency of scripture. It is a great blessing on building your faith.

It will also force you to inspect your overall theology for false preconceptions and conflicting doctrine.

E.g. if you don’t have your Israelology right, you are forced to allegorize everything to get it to fit your preconceptions. However, if you let scripture speak for itself and keep your mind open, the most obvious & correct meaning speaks for itself.