(Politics) U.S. approves contacts with Muslim Brotherhood: 'Region is going Islam'

[barnasha]

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2007/ss_egypt_06_27.asp

" The Brotherhood has been regarded as the inspiration for Muslim movements throughout the Arab world. The organization, founded in Egypt, spread through Saudi financing and has served as the inspiration for Al Qaida."

....

"The proposal was based on a study by Robert Leiken, a researcher at the Nixon Center. The study, commissioned by the National Intelligence Council, urged the United States to open a formal channel to the Islamic movement.

Such a channel would include formal meetings with Brotherhood leaders throughout the Arab and Islamic world and invite members to study or work in the United States. Officials said the law enforcement community, particularly the FBI, opposes the proposal, concerned that this would facilitate Al Qaida plots to attack the United States."

[mastralvarado]

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2007/ss_egypt_06_27.asp

" The Brotherhood has been regarded as the inspiration for Muslim movements throughout the Arab world. The organization, founded in Egypt, spread through Saudi financing and has served as the inspiration for Al Qaida."

....

"The proposal was based on a study by Robert Leiken, a researcher at the Nixon Center. The study, commissioned by the National Intelligence Council, urged the United States to open a formal channel to the Islamic movement.

Such a channel would include formal meetings with Brotherhood leaders throughout the Arab and Islamic world and invite members to study or work in the United States. Officials said the law enforcement community, particularly the FBI, opposes the proposal, concerned that this would facilitate Al Qaida plots to attack the United States."

Marhaban,
I appreciate you taking the time to inform me and other fellow twebbers of this news. Pay no attention to the red herring tactics of the politically-inclined readers who wish to interpret Islam as a form of nationalism when actually no words can actually describe it except maybe in the form of a tear: It is a mercy from the Lord of the Worlds [Adonai]

I am not trying to appeal to emotions but I find that politics are about appealing to the emotions and inherent flaws of people.

It would be a good idea for every post in each forum to have some kind of categorical tag implying the nature of the topic of the thread, such as this one. This is not some innovation in religion dogma but as a threshold in which to separate the sweet water from the salty water (.

So I have heard a someone say: never mix religion with politics,

Mastralvarado

[Philosophickle]

Mno words can actually describe it except maybe in the form of a tear

I agree, surprisingly. I think of all the tears shed over the slaughter of men and women in history and I have a soft spot for Islam reserved.

[barnasha]

I agree, surprisingly. I think of all the tears shed over the slaughter of men and women in history and I have a soft spot for Islam reserved.

The way I see things, is that when someone innocent dies, it matters not what creed they have taken, nor the color of their skin, it is just as sad.

unfortunately in all the battles between mankind, the innocents suffer the worst, and people like bin Laden and Cheney profit the most.

when an innocent Christian dies it is no less sad than when a Muslim dies. when someone is murdered by a Christian or a Muslim it is really no difference.

In the past, people have learned to stop being racist. The next form of bigotry to abolish is religionism (assuming anti-Muslim tactics are not latent anti-arabism)

[Dan Zebiri]

Stravalrado you quote:

'I have heard a someone say: never mix religion with politics,..'

Is rather interesting, if not outright misleading, because ISLAM is a political religion!

It never separated the State from Religion; like what happened in Christianity.

Thats why there is the Islamic Sharia legal system in islam! Which covers all aspects of life for the muslim.

Dan Z.

[barnasha]

Stravalrado you quote:

'I have heard a someone say: never mix religion with politics,..'

Is rather interesting, if not outright misleading, because ISLAM is a political religion!

It never separated the State from Religion; like what happened in Christianity.

Thats why there is the Islamic Sharia legal system in islam! Which covers all aspects of life for the muslim.

Dan Z.

coming from someone whose main job is to spread inflammatory anti-Muslim rhetoric on the Islam board on this website, it's hard to really consider anything you say as rational or unbiased...

why post this stuff at all? got nothing better to do than to show your festering obsession with Islam?

why not just post links to answering-islam.com and stop wasting so much space floating your opinion over and over in public?

[Dan Zebiri]

What Nonsense, AGAIN ::-)) barnasha, You seem to know my 'main job' very well do you??

Its to counter & EXPOSE YOUR LIES, barnasha - see my posts to yours, that we need to be here!

Its because I wrote the truth about Islam, that you cannot stand me, nor my posts! What I said here:

ISLAM is a political religion!

It never separated the State from Religion; like what happened in Christianity.

Thats why there is the Islamic Sharia legal system in islam! Which covers all aspects of life for the muslim.

Is TRUTH. Where in THAT (Above) was anything inflammatory??

Take care, Dan Z.

[barnasha]

you are more focused on talking about "my lies" than making a clear or logical point. indeed most of your posts center around how "i am confused" rather than countering what i say based on the merits alone.

rule number 1 of debating: stck to the argument, don't distract yourself with the personality of the debaters.

[Dan Zebiri]

Now you prove your befuddled & clouded mind, more than ever! Barney...!

If you really and truly want to 'stick to the point', as you yourself put it, THEN FOR GOODNESS SAKE, - ADDRESS WHAT I COPIED AGAIN INTO MY POST ABOVE!! Stop throwing out more desperate red herrings!!

Why am I posting what I raised BEFORE as a moot and objective point again? Here:

ISLAM is a political religion!

It never separated the State from Religion; like what happened in Christianity.

Thats why there is the Islamic Sharia legal system in islam! Which covers all aspects of life for the muslim.

Is TRUTH. Where in THAT (Above) was anything inflammatory??

Its YOU who is really distracted and doing more distracting..Can you kindly answer my question here, above, Where in the bold statements was anything inflammatory?

Islam does mix its religion and politics together..THAT was the POINT, YOU CAN SEE??

Dan Z.

[barnasha]

Islam does mix its religion and politics together..THAT was the POINT, YOU CAN SEE??

Dan Z.

You claim that "Islam mix[es]" - who is Islam to "mix" anything?

a political system based on an ideology does not become synonymous with that ideology

one could just as easily argue that Islam has separation of religion and state from the get-go, at least from one aspect; namely that politicians cannot influence the religion, only vice versa

the influence of christian teachings on the founders of the United States was if anything something positive.

anyway, if that is the point, where is the argument? how can you show that Islam, as a code of life, does not have state/religion separation?

[Dan Zebiri]

Your blind denials are again obvious from your words...

At one point you betray your misunderstandings again by asking: Why do you say that islam is a 'worldly religion'?

I NEVER said such a thing. i said that Islam is a din (religion of the daulah (government).

Your assumption that "..Islam, as a code of life, does not have state/religion separation is wrong..!

It has everything to do with religion and governance -of an Islamic state.

Why else do you have the Islamic Sharia that governs how to run a country? How to conduct business legally? How to treat Muslims? Non-Muslims? etc..

All such things are spelt out in islamic sharia or jurisprudence, and they cover the running of a state by a ruler/caliph, all they way to how to do ablution/wudu by a muslim.

So WHERE IS the non-separation between religion and the state in islam, Answer: None!

Dan Z.

[barnasha]

It has everything to do with religion and governance -of an Islamic state.

you were talking about Islam, not an Islamic state.



Why else do you have the Islamic Sharia that governs how to run a country? How to conduct business legally? How to treat Muslims? Non-Muslims? etc..

The shariah is merely a framework in which such decisions may be made. That is political and depending on the rulers of the country, of course.



All such things are spelt out in islamic sharia or jurisprudence, and they cover the running of a state by a ruler/caliph, all they way to how to do ablution/wudu by a muslim.

So WHERE IS the non-separation between religion and the state in islam, Answer: None!

Dan Z.

Since you are talking about Islamic states and not Islam, your conclusion does not match your topic of discussion.

[Dan Zebiri]

Islamic states are based totally on Islamic sharia and the the Sharia is derived from the quran, barney!

You are just trying to conjure up and artificial divide between islamic states and islam...without islam, these 'islamic states' would never exist in the first place!

Dan.

[barnasha]

Islamic states are based totally on Islamic sharia and the the Sharia is derived from the quran, barney!

You are just trying to conjure up and artificial divide between islamic states and islam...without islam, these 'islamic states' would never exist in the first place!

Dan.

so if i say an orange is not an apple, am I conjuring up an artificial divide between oranges and apples, too?

without the apple tree, the apple would never have existed... therefore an apple is an apple tree?

[Dan Zebiri]

Thats where YOU reaally do not get it, do you, barney?

Your simplistic 'analogies' never illustrate what Islam truly is!

Islam is BOTH the Apple and the Apple Tree, so the 'islamic apples' if you like, are produced from Islam itself.

It never compartmentalizes the 'fruits' from the source itself like what you are artificially promoting.

Dan Z.

[barnasha]

Thats where YOU reaally do not get it, do you, barney?

Your simplistic 'analogies' never illustrate what Islam truly is!

Islam is BOTH the Apple and the Apple Tree, so the 'islamic apples' if you like, are produced from Islam itself.

It never compartmentalizes the 'fruits' from the source itself like what you are artificially promoting.

Dan Z.

how can one thing be two things?

an airplane is a chair, and this is not an apples to oranges comparison: because the chair is both the apple and the orange.

[Dan Zebiri]

WHY NOT?

Islam never compartmentalizes itself, like what the west does

You fail to read my reply properly, again!

[barnasha]

WHY NOT?

Islam never compartmentalizes itself, like what the west does

You fail to read my reply properly, again!

Islam is a state, not a being.

[Dan Zebiri]

Once again, truly befogged barney,:

Islam never compartmentalizes its 'fruits' from the source itself (ISLAM) like what you are artificially promoting

Dan Z.