Must lies be confessed?

[Turgonian]

I am not free of vices. I wish I were. It'll take a good deal of grace to make a craven rat like me into a proud centaur... However, despite my weaknesses, I am an honest person. I despise lying. And yet...I recently got into a situation where I told a lie with full knowledge of what I was doing. The question is, if you know you lied, do you have to confess that lie to the person you told it to? I have not, and it feels like I am in rebellion against God, because I have the feeling I have to confess to the person. The problem is that confessing would be very painful, not only because the person doesn't expect me to lie, but also because telling the truth would show a very negative side of me. So I wondered if it was OK if you confess a lie to God and firmly resolve not to lie again nor to get into situations where you would be tempted to lie, without revealing the truth in this particular circumstance to the person you deceived.

[Teluog]

If I was lied to, and someone confessed it to me, I'd actually trust that person alot more. I know that when ppl lie that it's because they're afraid of something, sometimes afraid of hurting someone else (cause some ppl just can't handle the truth). It would be better to confess, for one reason being that confessing sins is a humbling experience.

Secondly, you should confess to ther person you lied to because he was the one who was deceived, not God.

Thirdly, because it shows that person that you are willing to be held accountible for your actions, giving that person a good reason to trust you. Yes, that other person may think that you aren't trustworthy for lying, but if he/she isn't merciful and gracious to you, and isn't understanding, and he/she becomes bitter towards you, than you'd just be getting what you deserve, fair n square. Again, that would be a humbling experience.

[semmie]

i agree with u-d...that when we are dishonest, it is usually out of fear. perhaps the point here (particularly because you are normally not prone to dishonesty) is to isolate the reason you felt compelled to dishonesty in this case. not with us here on tweb, but with you, with god, and with the person you were dishonest with. what was different this time? what thoughts and emotions led you to the decision to be dishonest? and i'd also encourage you to think about what your relationship with this person is made of. if you know it was sinful to speak dishonestly to her, then i think you already know that as a christian it's your responsibility to seek her forgiveness and reconciliation.

be strong in the lord, and full of hope. :flowers: may the god of grace go before you and mend what has been broken in this relationship.

[Cowthulu]

I've come to believe the intention counts for a lot. For example, I lied to my wife about our plans one evening because it was actually a surprise for her. My intentions were not harmful or vicious. However lying to avoid consequences you deserve and other types of things similar I would say yes, confession to God and the person is in order. Tricky situations to be sure IMO.

[Teluog]

I've come to believe the intention counts for a lot. For example, I lied to my wife about our plans one evening because it was actually a surprise for her. My intentions were not harmful or vicious. However lying to avoid consequences you deserve and other types of things similar I would say yes, confession to God and the person is in order. Tricky situations to be sure IMO.

Yeah, I see nothing wrong when you lie to someone about a surprise birthday party or something like that. I think that the sin of lying is out of the motive to deceive someone at their expense for your selfish gain.

[D. Medvedev Fan]

If I was lied to, and someone confessed it to me, I'd actually trust that person alot more. I know that when ppl lie that it's because they're afraid of something, sometimes afraid of hurting someone else (cause some ppl just can't handle the truth). It would be better to confess, for one reason being that confessing sins is a humbling experience.

Secondly, you should confess to ther person you lied to because he was the one who was deceived, not God.

Thirdly, because it shows that person that you are willing to be held accountible for your actions, giving that person a good reason to trust you. Yes, that other person may think that you aren't trustworthy for lying, but if he/she isn't merciful and gracious to you, and isn't understanding, and he/she becomes bitter towards you, than you'd just be getting what you deserve, fair n square. Again, that would be a humbling experience.

How specific do you think it needs to be?

What if it was years ago and irrelevant to life today?

[Teluog]

How specific do you think it needs to be?

What if it was years ago and irrelevant to life today?

Not sure about how specific, I think that would depend on the person you lied to. Even if it was done years ago, it may still affect that person today. Even if it was done years ago, it was still done, and an apology is still owed.

[D. Medvedev Fan]

Not sure about how specific, I think that would depend on the person you lied to. Even if it was done years ago, it may still affect that person today. Even if it was done years ago, it was still done, and an apology is still owed.

Umm, lets say homework that was said to be done when at the time it wasn't or was "misplaced". And that was say from high school over 5 years ago. The person already knows that you gave them a hard time with stuff in high school and dragged work out stuff like that and were sorry for that.

[timspong]

I think what you are really taking about is restitution. I think God places a far bigger emphasis on repentance rather than restitution and I don't believe that restitution is always an applicable aspect of repentance. In fact apart from Zacharias, I can think of another NT example.

You also need to be sure that recipient will be edified by your confession. Oftentimes such an admission will only serve to edify yourself and I can't see how that "essentially" selfish act will aid repentance.

[semmie]

You also need to be sure that recipient will be edified by your confession. Oftentimes such an admission will only serve to edify yourself and I can't see how that "essentially" selfish act will aid repentance.
are you serious? maybe i'm misunderstanding what you mean.

how does confessing sin to the person you sinned against...and seeking forgiveness...serve to edify yourself? it seems the opposite to me: our natural response would be to let it "slide"...so we don't have to admit we screwed up. :shrug:

and maybe you could give an example of a time when the recipient in this kind of situation would not be edified by someone coming to them and seeking forgiveness for a sin committed?

[spiritmech]

There are times when confession to a person you've harmed is grandstanding. One should *always* confess what one has done to someone. But it's not always necessary to confess to *that* someone you've harmed. Confession, depending on the situation, may harm the person even more.

Let's say that someone is an alcoholic. He's just joined AA and sees he needs to be honest. He decides to tell his wife all the affairs he's had over the past 20 years while he's been alcoholic. Now is that really necessary? She already knows the damage he's done to the family. Does she need him to admit all the crap he's done? No. She needs him to stop drinking. Actions mean more than words, and confession before the actions of love can harm a person.

sm


are you serious? maybe i'm misunderstanding what you mean.

how does confessing sin to the person you sinned against...and seeking forgiveness...serve to edify yourself? it seems the opposite to me: our natural response would be to let it "slide"...so we don't have to admit we screwed up. :shrug:

and maybe you could give an example of a time when the recipient in this kind of situation would not be edified by someone coming to them and seeking forgiveness for a sin committed?

[timspong]

are you serious? maybe i'm misunderstanding what you mean.

how does confessing sin to the person you sinned against...and seeking forgiveness...serve to edify yourself? it seems the opposite to me: our natural response would be to let it "slide"...so we don't have to admit we screwed up. :shrug:

and maybe you could give an example of a time when the recipient in this kind of situation would not be edified by someone coming to them and seeking forgiveness for a sin committed?

spiritmech beat me too it ...

[semmie]

Let's say that someone is an alcoholic. He's just joined AA and sees he needs to be honest. He decides to tell his wife all the affairs he's had over the past 20 years while he's been alcoholic. Now is that really necessary? She already knows the damage he's done to the family. Does she need him to admit all the crap he's done? No. She needs him to stop drinking. Actions mean more than words, and confession before the actions of love can harm a person.

and so it's better for the wife to not know that her husband has had several affairs?

seriously?

actions do not mean more than words. agreed that confession without a change of action can be detrimental, but it seems to me that you might want to back the train up--the harming of the wife doesn't occur at the point of confession or non-confession. the harm to the wife was done when the husband was unfaithful to her. what a cop-out to say that he shouldn't confess that because it might hurt her. of course it will hurt her!

what happens five years down the road...when her girlfriend slips up and mentions her affair with the husband? finding out from someone else will harm her even more.

i just don't see that what you guys are talking about...is truthfully beneficial to the person who's been sinned against. maybe you've got a different example? maybe i'm really misunderstanding.

:shrug:

[spiritmech]

I'm not saying in all cases. I'm just arguing in one case or in some cases confession to the person *MAY* harm the other. There is a time for not confessing. Once the man stops drinking, gets his life back in order, is able to be honest with himself, God might ask him to admit his previous affairs.

But not until his actions have changed. There is a time for confessing, there is a time for not confessing.
sm

and so it's better for the wife to not know that her husband has had several affairs?

seriously?

actions do not mean more than words. agreed that confession without a change of action can be detrimental, but it seems to me that you might want to back the train up--the harming of the wife doesn't occur at the point of confession or non-confession. the harm to the wife was done when the husband was unfaithful to her. what a cop-out to say that he shouldn't confess that because it might hurt her. of course it will hurt her!

what happens five years down the road...when her girlfriend slips up and mentions her affair with the husband? finding out from someone else will harm her even more.

i just don't see that what you guys are talking about...is truthfully beneficial to the person who's been sinned against. maybe you've got a different example? maybe i'm really misunderstanding.

:shrug:

[dizzle]

You also need to be sure that recipient will be edified by your confession. Oftentimes such an admission will only serve to edify yourself and I can't see how that "essentially" selfish act will aid repentance.

That hits the nail on the head right there. I see way too much unburdening oneself at the expense of others and Christians gobbling it up as if it was holy. It isn't. Confessing things that a person would never have known about and isn't harming them simply robs them of a piece of their past for no good at all. I have spoken about this at length in other posts.

[dizzle]

If my husband had an affair - something I would never know about but for his telling me, and if he repented, there was no disease and everything in the marriage is fine now (and this is completely hypothetical as my husband is faithful to a fault), it would be a cruelty to tell me. It would only unburden himself. It is not necessary. I believe Spirit is right.

[spiritmech]

This is an idea only recently I've come to understand. I had a friend who, when he got married, told his fiancee (a few days before the wedding) his entire story of all his sexual escapades. I suspect it allayed some fears of his, and they're still married now, but I'm not so sure "dumping" on your loved ones is always fruitful.
sm

[semmie]

wow.

i have to say i'm just...shocked that christians feel this way.

but obviously you guys know what you're talking about, so... :shrug: i'll chalk it up as "boy, am i clueless."

[dizzle]

wow.

i have to say i'm just...shocked that christians feel this way.

but obviously you guys know what you're talking about, so... :shrug: i'll chalk it up as "boy, am i clueless."

Please don't misunderstand me - there are times when it is necessary to confess, I just don't think it is always necessary or correct. And no cluelessness necessary - we just disagree :hug: It could be life experiences that cause the disagreement - I have some personal experience with people harming me by unnecessary (IMHO) confessions.

[Rahab]

wow.

i have to say i'm just...shocked that christians feel this way.

but obviously you guys know what you're talking about, so... :shrug: i'll chalk it up as "boy, am i clueless." Semmie, forgiveness would not exist if we did not confess our faults to the person we have either betrayed, lied to etc.... IMO, we feel "harmed" by a confession if we struggle with the ability to forgive. Emotionaly, it is very hard to hear such confessions at first but ultimately, as Christians, we are supposed to raise above such circumstances and forgive.

Personaly, I would prefer to know rather than not know. It's a test. A test of our willingness to exercise Grace towards others. Also, if we truly are to place others above oneself, we need to realize that the person who confesses to us will be liberated. I see it as something edifying for both.

Different experiences lead to different perceptions in this thread.

[dizzle]

IMO, we feel "harmed" by a confession if we struggle with the ability to forgive.

Thank you for the diagnosis, but you are incorrect. There are many ways in which an unneeded confession can harm others. No doubt an inability to forgive can be it for some but in the situations I am referring to, it does not.

...we need to realize that the person who confesses to us will be liberated.

That can be true. However, a Christian will not "liberate" themselves at the expense of another. If both are Christians in this situation then the situation should turn out for the best as each put the other person above themselves. Like an ideal marriage should work.

(btw - that post was very well done in conversational English and very readable)

[Rahab]

Thank you for the diagnosis, but you are incorrect. There are many ways in which an unneeded confession can harm others. No doubt an inability to forgive can be it for some but in the situations I am referring to, it does not. As I said, our experiences and how we lived them emotionaly are going to influence our responses in this thread. That was not a diagnosis, by the way.... just a reality that when we are harmed by others, we are also challenged to forgive in order to avoid bitterness, resentment and all kinds of destructive (for ourselves) feelings and thoughts.



That can be true. However, a Christian will not "liberate" themselves at the expense of another. If both are Christians in this situation then the situation should turn out for the best as each put the other person above themselves. Like an ideal marriage should work. IMO, God will make shapable clay out of our own "mud". If we avoid a confession for fear of harming others, I wonder how much we keep ourselves from growing under the shaping hand of God? And them too.

I'll share a crisis confession situation from real life to illustrate: my mother, a few years ago, in the midst of a casual conversation told me she had tried to abort me. Her tone was no different than if she had said " I like my coffee with milk". It was quite harmful, yes. Did I need to know? In restrospective, yes. Because it made the few moments of her being a wonderful and loving mother to me so much more precious. They were already rare but they also became so precious because of her statement. I understood her struggles and realized that she had to love me despite of her rejection of motherhood.

[Storico]

I'm of the opinion that, if something's been done, I'd rather have someone tell me. My own experiences have led me to that as much as some of your (plural) experiences have led you folks to not needing or wanting to know. It's not that I think blunt honesty is the best thing in ALL situations, but in personal intimate ones, I'd prefer the truth over having the truth hidden from me. If my partner was unfaithful and truly wanted to repent, for example, I'd want to know about my partner's mistakes and I'd want to know my partner was repenting, too. Honesty like that at least gives you something to work with, I think -- it shows that someone's ready to come clean and make a fresh start, and that they want your help doing that. Sometimes it's not something someone's done TO you -- it can simply be something they've done, and want or need to get past. Confessing our lies and sins to God is cleansing, but telling one another and asking each other for forgiveness and help makes all of us feel whole. Admitting something, saying sorry and asking for the help to move forward sometimes makes people closer.

[Amazing Rando]

I'm of the opinion that, if something's been done, I'd rather have someone tell me. My own experiences have led me to that as much as some of your (plural) experiences have led you folks to not needing or wanting to know. It's not that I think blunt honesty is the best thing in ALL situations, but in personal intimate ones, I'd prefer the truth over having the truth hidden from me. If my partner was unfaithful and truly wanted to repent, for example, I'd want to know about my partner's mistakes and I'd want to know my partner was repenting, too. Honesty like that at least gives you something to work with, I think -- it shows that someone's ready to come clean and make a fresh start, and that they want your help doing that. Sometimes it's not something someone's done TO you -- it can simply be something they've done, and want or need to get past. Confessing our lies and sins to God is cleansing, but telling one another and asking each other for forgiveness and help makes all of us feel whole. Admitting something, saying sorry and asking for the help to move forward sometimes makes people closer.

Absolutely- I'm of the same opinion.

[timspong]

I'm of the opinion that, if something's been done, I'd rather have someone tell me. My own experiences have led me to that as much as some of your (plural) experiences have led you folks to not needing or wanting to know. It's not that I think blunt honesty is the best thing in ALL situations, but in personal intimate ones, I'd prefer the truth over having the truth hidden from me. If my partner was unfaithful and truly wanted to repent, for example, I'd want to know about my partner's mistakes and I'd want to know my partner was repenting, too. Honesty like that at least gives you something to work with, I think -- it shows that someone's ready to come clean and make a fresh start, and that they want your help doing that. Sometimes it's not something someone's done TO you -- it can simply be something they've done, and want or need to get past. Confessing our lies and sins to God is cleansing, but telling one another and asking each other for forgiveness and help makes all of us feel whole. Admitting something, saying sorry and asking for the help to move forward sometimes makes people closer.

Only God knows how depraved we really are and I don't think anything will be gained in a marriage by pulling back the veneer and looking at each other in our naked depraved state. I think it is much healthier to edifying each other and build each other up in the spiritual realm rather than continually explore the sewer of our fleshly dimension.

Again I wouldn’t say that there were any fast and hard rules, but you must always act out of the love and edification of the other person. There are many ways to bring light into the darkness of past trespasses and oftentimes the easiest way is to resort to burdening others rather than dealing with it by agape.

Say that I have a problem of looking lustfully at other women (very common BTW). Would it edify my wife if I confessed to her each time I did so? I think it would be better in that situation for me to look to God to help me deal with it and repent of that action. If the situation requires it, it also might be advantageous to confess to other Godly men who can help achieve repentance and support my efforts.

At the end of the day it is repentance and godliness that we should seek, not to air dirty laundry.

[shadowmaster]

If my husband had an affair - something I would never know about but for his telling me, and if he repented, there was no disease and everything in the marriage is fine now (and this is completely hypothetical as my husband is faithful to a fault), it would be a cruelty to tell me. It would only unburden himself. It is not necessary. I believe Spirit is right.


Shadowmaster agrees with Xena (a rarity in itself).

A former pastor he knows had a brief affair with a flight attendant. He admitted it to his wife and the entire world (even though there was no chance of accidental discovery). Although he was forgiven , it unburdened him at the expense of great pain for his wife and children. He later advocated this as the "right thing to do".

Shadowmaster and Shadowmaster's wife considered it to be a totally selfish act and not a holy one at all.

[dizzle]

Only God knows how depraved we really are and I don't think anything will be gained in a marriage by pulling back the veneer and looking at each other in our naked depraved state. I think it is much healthier to edifying each other and build each other up in the spiritual realm rather than continually explore the sewer of our fleshly dimension.

Again I wouldn’t say that there were any fast and hard rules, but you must always act out of the love and edification of the other person. There are many ways to bring light into the darkness of past trespasses and oftentimes the easiest way is to resort to burdening others rather than dealing with it by agape.

Say that I have a problem of looking lustfully at other women (very common BTW). Would it edify my wife if I confessed to her each time I did so? I think it would be better in that situation for me to look to God to help me deal with it and repent of that action. If the situation requires it, it also might be advantageous to confess to other Godly men who can help achieve repentance and support my efforts.

At the end of the day it is repentance and godliness that we should seek, not to air dirty laundry.

Amen. I certainly wouldn't want to know any time my spouse felt tempted or attracted to another.

[dizzle]

Shadowmaster agrees with Xena (a rarity in itself).

A former pastor he knows had a brief affair with a flight attendant. He admitted it to his wife and the entire world (even though there was no chance of accidental discovery). Although he was forgiven , it unburdened him at the expense of great pain for his wife and children. He later advocated this as the "right thing to do".

Shadowmaster and Shadowmaster's wife considered it to be a totally selfish act and not a holy one at all.

Yes that is my perspective entirely.

Sometimes we as Christians want answers in the form of "yes, you ALWAYS do ________" for every situation. But it isn't that way for everything in our walk.

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

and so it's better for the wife to not know that her husband has had several affairs?

seriously?I'm with semmie here. I mean - wow. A man like that should not confess that he's been unfaithful? That just appears utterly crazy to me.

My view - yes, you should admit your lie to the person you lied to. It's clear enough from post #1 that this isn't some scenario like lying about not doing your homework ten years ago when you were in school. I'm also not suggesting that, as in shadowmaster's example, that this requires you to tell the world. Just the person you wronged. The description in post #1 suggests that the only harm feared is the harm of another person seeing a sinful streak in you. Well, they should see it - you sinned against them. Repentance reveals sin.

EDIT: Just to add, there's no suggestion here that because you should admit that you needlessly lied to someone who deserved the truth, then you should always tell people about your sins. No suggestion of that kind at all. But when you sin against a person, you cannot truthfully say that you have repented and sought forgiveness if that person never even knows that you have sinned. Repented to whom? Sought forgiveness from whom?

[dizzle]

I was suggesting that despite the OP - there are other harms that could result. So just like I believe in rare times lying is the right thing to do (i.e. No, Mr. Nazi, I do not have Jews in my basement), there are times when it is the right thing to do to remain silent to one's wife about an affair (i.e. it happened years ago, it is no longer that man's heart to do such thing, no disease or other harm happened, the wife is not going to discover on her own). A person's peace is a treasured commodity and it should not be shattered needlessly.

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

This is an idea only recently I've come to understand. I had a friend who, when he got married, told his fiancee (a few days before the wedding) his entire story of all his sexual escapades. I suspect it allayed some fears of his, and they're still married now, but I'm not so sure "dumping" on your loved ones is always fruitful.
smThat's a combination of several issues, however. He should have told her from the start, and not, as you said yourself, "dumped" it on her just before the wedding.

In a case of being engaged, I would think it to be unbelievably wicked for a man to keep the fact that he is not a virgin hidden from his fiancee. What if she intends to marry a virgin? (same applies the other way around)

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

A person's peace is a treasured commodity and it should not be shattered needlessly.I think everyone here accepts that. The issue, of course, is whether such an admission is needless or not.

[dizzle]

I think everyone here accepts that. The issue, of course, is whether such an admission is needless or not.

Let me give you a concrete example that is personal. If you three years ago hated my guts and only pretended to like me, but over the years that grew to be genuine friendship and you caused me no real harm that I would ever know - it was an internal thing for you - don't tell me. It is a needless admission. Repent to God. If you think this is a silly example I can assure it is not - I have had it happen to me several times, though each time it was females, so it might be a girlie thing to do, I don't know. I can tell you that I certainly would not burden a person with that. I would repent to God and thank Him for changing my heart towards that person.

With the more dramatic example of an affair, yes I do think there are rare occasions when the admission would be needless. Most of the time it would be needful. And like I feel I have to do when I make the statement that I believe there are "righteous lies" - I have NEVER been in a situation in which I thought it would be righteous to lie. Any lying I have done in my life has been wicked. I also have never been in a situation of an affair that I am hiding. It is just an example used because it is emotional and everyone can relate - married or not. It is sad I have to even offer these disclaimers, but our wicked minds tend to think the worst of people. You don't need to confess to me if anyone was thinking the worst.

But this "we have to confess everything" to people gets taken way too far in Christian circles IMHO and it is a self-centered tendency in my opinion - which opinion of course is highly fallible.

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

Let me give you a concrete example that is personal. If you three years ago hated my guts and only pretended to like me, but over the years that grew to be genuine friendship and you caused me no real harm that I would ever know - it was an internal thing for you - don't tell me. It is a needless admission. Repent to God. If you think this is a silly example I can assure it is not - I have had it happen to me several times, though each time it was females, so it might be a girlie thing to do, I don't know. I can tell you that I certainly would not burden a person with that. I would repent to God and thank Him for changing my heart towards that person.

With the more dramatic example of an affair, yes I do think there are rare occasions when the admission would be needless. Most of the time it would be needful.

But this "we have to confess everything" to people gets taken way too far in Christian circles IMHO and it is a self-centered tendency in my opinion - which opinion of course is highly fallible.In a case like that I may be inclined to agree. I suppose my thinking would be that I didn't really commit a specific sin against you by being nice to you in spite of the fact that I didn't like you. I would also not have committed a specific sin against you by not liking you. But more improtantly, as I said, I would not say that a person should always tell another person all their sins against them (e.g. I had an unfair thought about you the other day....). I agree it's not cut n dried where the distinctions will be. But I'm inclined to think, based on post #1, that the person who started this thread would probably do well to confess in this case - unless there's some really important thing he hasn't told us.

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

.... which opinion of course is highly fallible.I accept your confession, but I already knew anyway. :wink:

[Turgonian]

The topic has shifted a little from 'confessing lies' to 'confessing sins'.

If the fiancée would have asked the man, 'Have you ever had a sexual affair?' and he had answered 'No', should he have confessed?

(Thankfully, what I was talking about isn't anything like that. It's far less serious -- but still painful.)

[Storico]

The topic has shifted a little from 'confessing lies' to 'confessing sins'.

If the fiancée would have asked the man, 'Have you ever had a sexual affair?' and he had answered 'No', should he have confessed?

(Thankfully, what I was talking about isn't anything like that. It's far less serious -- but still painful.)

I think the topic's shifted from 'confessing lies' to 'confessing sins' because not all lies are spoken out loud. They don't have to be. Dishonesty's still dishonesty whether or not you actually make a statement. The example of an affair is an action, but it's also a lie in it's own way if it's never admitted.

I think there ARE certain contexts in which it would be morally alright to lie - Xena's example of "No Mr. Nazi, no Jews in my basement", or saying to an angry man "No, I didn't see which way that sobbing woman ran" or in a simple, fun case, making something up in order to cover a happy surprise, like in the planning of a surprise party. Most of the lies we do tell aren't of the extreme variety where, by lying, we're saving a life. Doesn't work that way.

If our partner asks us about our past, I believe we should be forthcoming. Even if it's years down the road. It might be 'protecting' someone by keeping it buried, but it's also 'protecting' the person who committed the dishonest act from feeling the anger of his or her spouse. If it truly WAS one indiscretion that happened years ago and if a couple truly has had a happy, monogamous, trusting marriage since then, I think the whole thing wouldn't fall apart by that being admitted. Many people would disagree, I know. That's okay.

I also think there's a difference between confessing to everyone and asking them for forgiveness, and confessing to the person wronged, and asking him/her for forgiveness. It's odd. Some people genuinely find it easier to get up in front of their church or their community and make deep confessions and ask for forgiveness, because they sense their church will 'forgive them' and then think they've been awfully pious and holy for asking.... but sometimes, these same people find it too hard to actually admit to the person they wronged that they were dishonest or mean or unfaithful. That's harder. That's just you talking with one person who may or may not ever forgive you. THAT'S the kind of confession that's improper, though, I think. What good does it do to have your pastor think you're a great person and to have your community/church friends think you're a great person if you've never actually had the guts to go back to the person you've wronged and sincerely apologize for the act in question? I've never been able to understand that.

Anyways. Hope that made sense.

[Teluog]

Let me give you a concrete example that is personal. If you three years ago hated my guts and only pretended to like me, but over the years that grew to be genuine friendship and you caused me no real harm that I would ever know - it was an internal thing for you - don't tell me. It is a needless admission. Repent to God.

But if he did tell you flat out that he didn't like you, then should he confess to you later on?

[semmie]

Let me give you a concrete example that is personal. If you three years ago hated my guts and only pretended to like me, but over the years that grew to be genuine friendship and you caused me no real harm that I would ever know - it was an internal thing for you - don't tell me. It is a needless admission. Repent to God. If you think this is a silly example I can assure it is not - I have had it happen to me several times, though each time it was females, so it might be a girlie thing to do, I don't know. I can tell you that I certainly would not burden a person with that. I would repent to God and thank Him for changing my heart towards that person.
truthfully, it does sound like a girly thing. i've had similar things happen, and i would agree that this is unnecessary. however, i don't think disliking someone is necessarily sinful to begin with. :shrug: i can think of one person on tweb right off the bat that i seriously dislike; but i have a lot of respect for him and for his means of defending the faith. i just don't think that's sinful. :shrug: i'm not at odds with him, and i don't think anyone would even know i dislike him, because i don't act in a hateful or spiteful way. so what makes it sinful and needing confession to begin with? simple dislike doesn't do it, imo.

With the more dramatic example of an affair, yes I do think there are rare occasions when the admission would be needless.
i don't want to beat a dead topic, but i'm curious if you'd expand on this. my understanding was that previously you had said if your husband had an affair, and you never knew about it, and he had repented and no harm was done (no resulting children, stds, etc), then you wouldn't necessarily want him to confess to you. so what makes that a rare occasion where confession is unnecessary?

You don't need to confess to me if anyone was thinking the worst.
:hehe:

But this "we have to confess everything" to people gets taken way too far in Christian circles IMHO and it is a self-centered tendency in my opinion - which opinion of course is highly fallible.
what makes it self-centered?

i'm asking that very seriously.

i have a lot of respect for you--i think you know that. but i'm having a really hard time hearing what you're telling me. i've always believed that honesty and being "right" with people is of utmost importance. and i've seen firsthand in my life the past few months...that sins unconfessed can lead to a whole lot of heartache for a whole lot of people. things that are hidden for the sake of not stirring up old troubles....

...they hurt.

it just seems to me that if we want to have relationships within the body of christ that are honest and safe, where people can be vulnerable and learn to trust each other, then we can't sit on sin and not confess it to the person we've wronged. obviously there are times when sin shouldn't be confessed: i don't need to tell mr. tight-buns over there in the third pew that i was just lusting after him. right? that doesn't do him or me or us or the body any good.

but if i lied to mr. tight-buns...then i see no reason in withholding confession. do we risk letting him find out from another source that i lied? do we risk letting years pass...before speaking the truth, and leaving him broken and wondering where our trusting and honest relationship went?

better to not sin in the first place, right?

but when we do (because we do), why not deal with it?

it's like any wound. if you allow it to be mended immediately, it won't hurt as much; if you refuse treatment, and use it even though it's not working properly...then when you finally do try to fix it, it'll be all the more painful, and take that much longer to heal properly.

or it may not heal properly.

i dunno. i know you're not saying that confession is always self-serving and harmful to the person who was sinned against. i just....have a hard time thinking that confession and forgiveness are dispensable between two people. and if we're not confessing...why should the world think confession is worthwhile?

sorry. i'll stop rambling now.

[dizzle]

Semmie, I just wanted you to know that I saw this, I am just really swamped at work right now.... I hope to be able to answer soon.

[spiritmech]

I'd just like to say I agree with semmie (and I'm sure others in the thread) when I say that dishonesty is horrible. It can hurt so many people. But there is a happy medium, I think. Not so much lying as not volunteer stuff if it could be hurtful.

I think dishonesty is 10x worse than hurting people through honesty, just to be clear.
sm

[Amazing Rando]

Say that I have a problem of looking lustfully at other women (very common BTW). Would it edify my wife if I confessed to her each time I did so?


Perhaps not each and every time, but if it were a speicifc, habitual sin that occured over and over again, then for accountability purposes and helping one defeat that sin, then confession to another person can be crucial.

[Teluog]

Originally posted by timspong
Say that I have a problem of looking lustfully at other women (very common BTW). Would it edify my wife if I confessed to her each time I did so?

In a situation like that, I think you should confess to your wife that you have trouble looking at women lustfully, rather than confess each and every individual account.

[shadowmaster]

In a situation like that, I think you should confess to your wife that you have trouble looking at women lustfully, rather than confess each and every individual account.

How long have you been married?

Oh Never?

hmmmm

Well then, how about to each girl that you know about other women that have made you lust?

NONE?

really?

shadowmaster

[semmie]

Well then, how about to each girl that you know about other women that have made you lust?

i love how this is worded: "women that have made you lust."

brilliant. :thumb:

[Amazing Rando]

i love how this is worded: "women that have made you lust."

brilliant. :thumb:

:rofl: As if it's all the woman's fault.

[Teluog]

How long have you been married?

Oh Never?

hmmmm

Well then, how about to each girl that you know about other women that have made you lust?

NONE?

really?

Come again? I don't see what you're getting at, or what this has to do with anything about confessing lies.

[shadowmaster]

Come again? I don't see what you're getting at, or what this has to do with anything about confessing lies.

You brought it up

SM

[Teluog]

You brought it up

SM

Brought what up?

[shadowmaster]

:shrug:

[Teluog]

:eh:

[shadowmaster]

meh

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

i can think of one person on tweb right off the bat that i seriously dislike;:bawl: I knew it!
but i have a lot of respect for him and for his means of defending the faith.Aw thanks, all is not lost. :hug:

[semmie]

:bawl: I knew it!
Aw thanks, all is not lost. :hug:

:hehe:

:pounce:

semmie loves ya, kiddo.

[Genesius]

wow, this is a tough topic...

In the case of the OP, I think we need more details.

But generally, if the major concern of the confessor is to preserve his/her own image, that's usually a sign you should talk about what you did to the person.

If the confessors concern is more about the "confessee" and the relationship, then as long as the conscious of the confessor has been cleared with God, either through prayer or confession to the elders of the church, then it's possible that the confession may not be necessary.

In all, God can work through every situation and whatever you decide to do should be done faithfully. There are some things that I've done, I would not tell my wife unless she asked and I think she would prefer it that way. We should not try to have other people help us carry our burdens, but we should be open to carrying said for others.

[Smokering]

If my husband were to come up to me and say 'Sweetie, you know how when you bought that dress and I said it looked good on you? I lied, I'm sorry'... I would not be a happy Smokering. :p

Just for the record.

[shadowmaster]

shadowmaster wins

[Chocobear]

I am not free of vices. I wish I were. It'll take a good deal of grace to make a craven rat like me into a proud centaur... However, despite my weaknesses, I am an honest person. I despise lying. And yet...I recently got into a situation where I told a lie with full knowledge of what I was doing. The question is, if you know you lied, do you have to confess that lie to the person you told it to? I have not, and it feels like I am in rebellion against God, because I have the feeling I have to confess to the person. The problem is that confessing would be very painful, not only because the person doesn't expect me to lie, but also because telling the truth would show a very negative side of me. So I wondered if it was OK if you confess a lie to God and firmly resolve not to lie again nor to get into situations where you would be tempted to lie, without revealing the truth in this particular circumstance to the person you deceived.

Yes, it is extremely painful to admit to someone that you love that you have lied to them. However, it can be tremendously freeing. I'll give you an example.

For two or three years prior to the day of my salvation, I had been filling my family members' minds with lies that I had told them. Because of my stupidity and pride, these lies had been spread by these family members. I was left with two choices: Come clean and face the consequences, or keep this secret hidden and be chastised by my Father in Heaven. I went with Option A, taking the high road. Too afraid to tell my mother about my lies in person, I wrote a letter of confession, which I left on my mother's desk. I was so distraught that I prayed to the Lord, asking Him to open my mother's heart and to help her to forgive me. Despite my fear of rejection I finally admitted the truth, first to my mother and then to my sister. (My dad was stressed out enough as it was, and I agreed with my mother that telling him the truth would only increase his stress.) Both my mother and my sister forgave me. And most importantly, my Lord in Heaven forgave me as well.

My advice to you would be: Bring this to the Lord in prayer, then tell this person the truth. Even if they don't accept your apology, you'll know that you did the right thing and that the Lord is on your side.

[Turgonian]

Hmm, this is a rather different situation. I am glad that our Lord enabled you to act so well in your circumstances. However, in my case, it was a single untruth which I am sure the person in question has long forgotten. I think it's best to keep silent about it now, and firmly resolve never to tell another lie.