'nother question for John Powell.

[Sinapis nigra]

I was wondering why you go on participating in Mormon apologetics if you now no longer have a belief even in God? What's your reason for spending so much time at it?

[John Powell]

POWELL:
For the same kind of reasons I mentioned to you.

Here's an important one:

I believe I am an especially good person to discuss or debate Mormon issues with because my opponent knows I don't believe it anymore and have only a moderate emotional attachment to it, so it's more likely he can focus on the quality of the arguments rather than less relevant things like dealing with personal offense to me or himself or "lying for God."

I think too many discussions on emotionally-charged issues are hijacked because of those emotions. It's not really possible to completely eliminate this, but TWEB keeps it better under check than anywhere else I have discussed religion.

One of my major goals at TWEB is to promote logical dialogue about religious issues. I believe that the cause of religious tolerance (including atheism) will benefit from that.

I believe that my ability to argue effectively has benefitted from the time I've spent defending Mormonism.

Are there things you think are wrong with Mormonism that you would like to test against an informed opponent?

John Powell.

[Bill the Cat]

very well said John. I for one appreciate your thoughtful and well formatted responses.

[Jin-Roh]

It's good to have a devil's advocate around.
What's even stranger is that only the Devil's Advocate sticks around defending Mormonism after all the real Mormons left. One left with a big "pity-me" attitude in the Locker Room.

[John Powell]

Jin-Roh:
It's good to have a devil's advocate around.

What's even stranger is that only the Devil's Advocate sticks around defending Mormonism after all the real Mormons left. One left with a big "pity-me" attitude in the Locker Room.


POWELL:
It does not surprise me. Mormons are taught to avoid "contentious" arguments, meaning those in which they feel uncomfortable because "contention is of the devil" and the uncomfortable feeling is an indication that the influence of the Holy Ghost is weak or near gone. What this amounts to is that they tend to avoid discussions where their opponent speaks strongly or fails to come around after a while. Also, they are strongly directed to avoid speaking to people who openly discuss the Temple endowment.

If people at TWEB were easily persuaded by their arguments and heart-felt testimonies to accept the Missionary discussions and many of those eventually joined the church then you'd find Mormons flocking to TWEB. Mormons are encouraged to go where they will be successful in producing conversions and avoid other places that are a waste of time relative to that goal.

I do care if my Mormon-supportive arguments fail, but I don't take it so personally as they do.

John Powell

[Sinapis nigra]

Yesterday @ 05:44 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=208479#post208479)
John Powell:



POWELL:
It does not surprise me. Mormons are taught to avoid "contentious" arguments, meaning those in which they feel uncomfortable because "contention is of the devil" and the uncomfortable feeling is an indication that the influence of the Holy Ghost is weak or near gone.


While I agree that contention is of the devil but I feel that there is no excuse for running from an argument just because you feel uncomfortable. I beleive when you feel anger and rage, regardless of the source of that feeling, that that is a good sign to back out. But to leave a conversation but just because you don't feel like you did when you are in your own little comfort zone when you weren't engaged in discussion dosen't necesarily mean that the spirit is gone. I believe that God intended us to grow through feelings like that. If one is not conversant and firm enough in ones own beliefs to the point of feeling overly uncomfortable to the point of withdrawing from the conversation at the least site of debate then that person should be moved upon to exercise their brain heart and soul and really study and reach that level of surity other wise they are taking the path of least resistance and if they continue on that path they will eventualy forsake that belief they once held but were too timid or scared to defend simply because they didn't feel really really good inside.

What this amounts to is that they tend to avoid discussions where their opponent speaks strongly or fails to come around after a while.


This is more along the line of avoiding raging bashers and people who are not ready for the truth more than it necesarily is avoiding contention. God does not like his servants to waist their time in unfruitfull enterprises.


Also, they are strongly directed to avoid speaking to people who openly discuss the Temple endowment.

The temple is a place where we learn. Much of what occures there is sacred and hence to a degree seceret. Just as certain parts of the temple in Jerusalem had limited access so does God's house in these days.


If people at TWEB were easily persuaded by their arguments and heart-felt testimonies to accept the Missionary discussions and many of those eventually joined the church then you'd find Mormons flocking to TWEB. Mormons are encouraged to go where they will be successful in producing conversions and avoid other places that are a waste of time relative to that goal.


Very true and a good point. Just as it would be a waist to try and convince Osama bin Ladin of the virtues of Christianity or Democracy it is likewise unwise to spend all our hours confronting anti-Mormons


I do care if my Mormon-supportive arguments fail, but I don't take it so personally as they do.

John Powell


I still have a hard time with this despite your response--- Why do you care if you are now an Athiest? What drives you?

[John Powell]

POWELL:
Also, they are strongly directed to avoid speaking to people who openly discuss the Temple endowment.

SINAPIS NIGRA:
The temple is a place where we learn. Much of what occures there is sacred and hence to a degree seceret. Just as certain parts of the temple in Jerusalem had limited access so does God's house in these days.


POWELL:
I suggest we avoid mentioning the temple anymore or someone will likely offend you so much that you feel obligated to leave.

SINAPIS NIGRA:
Very true and a good point. Just as it would be a waist to try and convince Osama bin Ladin of the virtues of Christianity or Democracy it is likewise unwise to spend all our hours confronting anti-Mormons


POWELL:
While a believer, I felt like the Spirit would guide me who to talk to and what to say. The moment I began to feel uncomfortable in a discussion I would ask myself "Is that the spirit telling me I should do something else such as say a quick prayer or change tactics or go away or what?" I tried to use my "spiritual" impressions as a guide to behavior.

POWELL:
I do care if my Mormon-supportive arguments fail, but I don't take it so personally as they do.

SINAPIS NIGRA:
I still have a hard time with this despite your response--- Why do you care if you are now an Athiest? What drives you?


POWELL:
There are several reasons.

I want to improve my understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of Mormon theology.

I want to provide nonMormons an opportunity to test their debate skills against someone such as myself.

I want to convert the world to a higher level of scientific skepticism. If people can see how effectively I can defend a belief system I no longer adhere to then they might be more skeptical of the "heart-felt" testimonies and logical-sounding arguments they hear from their authority figures and exercise their own reasoning skills better.

If it would make you feel better to see me criticize Mormonism, Sinapis, would you be interested in debating me on the subject of the plans of salvation presented in the pre-mortal existence?

John Powell

[Bill the Cat]

Sinapis, John is right, this is not the place to discuss the temple, because those here will pose some hard questions that you probably will not want to answer. I have learned to steer clear of these.