What were the disciples thinking?

[mikewhitney]

What were the disciples thinking in Matt 24:3 in asking Jesus for a sign?

It seems that the disciples didn't expect Jesus to go away or to die. The disciples would be right there wherever Jesus was. If there was no concept of Jesus going away then how could there be a question regarding His coming?

The second question would be about the reason they felt a need to ask for a sign.

Were the disciples simply looking for Jesus to give them a command? or were the disciples asking a question solely by the inspiration of God? Though it seems that people in scripture tend to ask questions that would naturally be on the tip of their tongue.

Maybe the disciples had started to learn that Jesus would bring forth judgment since the disciples came up with questions about signs and the end of the age.

[eschaton]

I would guess the questions were in regard to Mat 23:39 and 24:2.

[maudman]

What were the disciples thinking in Matt 24:3 in asking Jesus for a sign?

It seems that the disciples didn't expect Jesus to go away or to die. The disciples would be right there wherever Jesus was. If there was no concept of Jesus going away then how could there be a question regarding His coming?

The second question would be about the reason they felt a need to ask for a sign.

Were the disciples simply looking for Jesus to give them a command? or were the disciples asking a question solely by the inspiration of God? Though it seems that people in scripture tend to ask questions that would naturally be on the tip of their tongue.

Maybe the disciples had started to learn that Jesus would bring forth judgment since the disciples came up with questions about signs and the end of the age.


mikewhitney


Material blessings is one of the things in Israelite culture that carried great significance especially the Jew.

To the Jew as is demonstrated in the previous verses and cptr surrounding the text you have in Question is about Material wealth and its corruption. To the Jew One was seen as blessed by God if he was materially wealthy in fact they actually indirectly made it a form of worship.


3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.



What CHrist is saying later to the apostles is this.


When the world is coming to its End the Jew will once again sit in Jerusalem. ""WHen the fig tree and its branches are yet tender."" Jerusalem will once again be a pain to the civilized world in the Latter days. And in those days there will be many who are seen as blessed in the Eyes of the Jew because they are wealthy and they claim to be Christian or followers of Christ. Only they will decieve.

They preach a gosple Jesus is the Christ but deny the real power there of. YOu will know who these are because they and the Jews will be in bed together because they actually worship the same god MAMMON.

MDN

[mikewhitney]

I would guess the questions were in regard to Mat 23:39 and 24:2.

That seems right. Silly me for not checking the context a little further. Even after seeing Matt 23:39 the reason for the question of the disciples is still difficult to understand, since the Christ was there now. And the people just had to recognize the blessing. But it does now seem that the disciples saw this expression (of Matt 23:39) as speaking of a distinct "coming" of the Lord to be among the Jews. Hence, that was sufficient to cause the disciples to ask Jesus about the "when" and the "sign" of His coming.

The possible situation here is that the disciples were thinking on Ps 118:26 (which is the verse being quoted by Jesus) instead of the words Jesus was saying. The part of the verse that is important here (in Matt 23:39) is that the verse requires that people say something or speak something, namely to say "blessed is He ....", but the disciples forcused on the mention of the "coming."

The idea, from Jesus, is that the Messiah had come and was there among them. But the benefit of Jews would not come until they recognized that "His coming" had come. And it would seem that the disciples were expecting something big to happen which they had not seen yet , and they did not know what to expect. The disciples were groping to understand what the the future might me.

Interesting that Matt 23:39 is referenced to Ps 118:26

118:26 Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!
We have blessed you out of the house of the Lord.

The Psalm extends the idea of Matt 23:39 to include blessing God from His house. Then we learn as believers that we are the house or temple of the Lord. So, the fulfillment of Matt 23:39 comes by receiving Jesus and His message.

[mikewhitney]

mikewhitney


Material blessings is one of the things in Israelite culture that carried great significance especially the Jew.

To the Jew as is demonstrated in the previous verses and cptr surrounding the text you have in Question is about Material wealth and its corruption. To the Jew One was seen as blessed by God if he was materially wealthy in fact they actually indirectly made it a form of worship.

MDN

Yes. that is interesting. The disciples themselves in the first verses of Matt 24 were glorifying the majesty and wealth of the temple

[eschaton]

That seems right. Silly me for not checking the context a little further. Even after seeing Matt 23:39 the reason for the question of the disciples is still difficult to understand, since the Christ was there now. And the people just had to recognize the blessing. But it does now seem that the disciples saw this expression (of Matt 23:39) as speaking of a distinct "coming" of the Lord to be among the Jews. Hence, that was sufficient to cause the disciples to ask Jesus about the "when" and the "sign" of His coming.

The possible situation here is that the disciples were thinking on Ps 118:26 (which is the verse being quoted by Jesus) instead of the words Jesus was saying. The part of the verse that is important here (in Matt 23:39) is that the verse requires that people say something or speak something, namely to say "blessed is He ....", but the disciples forcused on the mention of the "coming."

The idea, from Jesus, is that the Messiah had come and was there among them. But the benefit of Jews would not come until they recognized that "His coming" had come. And it would seem that the disciples were expecting something big to happen which they had not seen yet , and they did not know what to expect. The disciples were groping to understand what the the future might me.

Interesting that Matt 23:39 is referenced to Ps 118:26

118:26 Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!
We have blessed you out of the house of the Lord.

The Psalm extends the idea of Matt 23:39 to include blessing God from His house. Then we learn as believers that we are the house or temple of the Lord. So, the fulfillment of Matt 23:39 comes by receiving Jesus and His message.

Good point about the church. Some such as Hippolytus and Tyconius believed that even though the the disciples asked about the temple in Jerusalem, Jesus was speaking figurtively of the church in the Olivet discourse.

Note Jesus made the statement in 23:39 despite 21:9 .

[mikewhitney]

Good point about the church. Some such as Hippolytus and Tyconius believed that even though the the disciples asked about the temple in Jerusalem, Jesus was speaking figurtively of the church in the Olivet discourse.

Note Jesus made the statement in 23:39 despite 21:9 .

If you noticed, I didn't say "the church." The reason is that "the church" often is perceived as a building or an institution. So I wanted to make sure the idea was spoken in relationship to believers. The distinction seems useful at this point.

Well I don't know how those guys could imagine the believers were to flee from something such as the events of Matt 24 if those events were against believers.

Your mention of 23:39 with 21:9 provides more evidence of what I was trying to say, namely that since Ps 118:26 was fulfilled then Jesus was speaking of a requirement now upon the people, that is to say that they must believe upon Him. Yet the disciples, in their logic process, seemed to think as if the Matt 21:9 kingly entrance had not happened, or as if Ps 118:26 had not been fulfilled at that point.

[eschaton]

If you noticed, I didn't say "the church." The reason is that "the church" often is perceived as a building or an institution. So I wanted to make sure the idea was spoken in relationship to believers. The distinction seems useful at this point.

Well I don't know how those guys could imagine the believers were to flee from something such as the events of Matt 24 if those events were against believers.

Your mention of 23:39 with 21:9 provides more evidence of what I was trying to say, namely that since Ps 118:26 was fulfilled then Jesus was speaking of a requirement now upon the people, that is to say that they must believe upon Him. Yet the disciples, in their logic process, seemed to think as if the Matt 21:9 kingly entrance had not happened, or as if Ps 118:26 had not been fulfilled at that point.


Early Christians believed that antichrist would persecute the church, and there would be a falling away before the last judgment. The church was like the body of Christ. Even like Jesus was three days in the bowels of the earth, so the church (Christians) would be scattered and rebuilt. The gates of hell would not prevail. The disciples fell away after Jesus' arrest, but were regrouped after the crucifixion.

[maudman]

Yes. that is interesting. The disciples themselves in the first verses of Matt 24 were glorifying the majesty and wealth of the temple

Yes, wealth was and is important to the jewish culture.

Its like the wealthy you man who asked about entering into the kingdom. And he had done all of them, After christ told him to sell all had and follow him, he just walked away sad. And then comes the "Who then can enter" If that Guy couldn't who could. Although we are expected to be wealthy when we enter its spiritual wealth not of things corruptable.

Peace and Godbless

MDN

[maudman]

But that's not all,

The wealth is just a ""catalist"" to a relationship of the Jews in the latters day and those that come in the name of CHrist and decieve.

The real reason that Christ is saying the Jew will be saying ""blessed is he that comes in the Name of the Lord"" is Because deep withing the teaching of these Heretics Christians and their teaching is that """the Jew is still Gods chosen People"". And I shouldn't have to tell you who does that.

YOu see wtih that kind of teaching they nourish the Jews disbelief and rejection of and in CHrist. They don't need Christ to be Gods chosen People they are because they are and that is anti-Christ.

Why do you need Christ when you can become a Jew and be Gods chosen People?

MDN