TheologyWeb Campus - Eschatology 201 http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/ Pre-Terrorist or Preterist, end time events, kingdom promises and dispensationalism. Theist only en Sun, 19 May 2013 23:11:05 GMT vBulletin 5 http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/images/misc/rss.png TheologyWeb Campus - Eschatology 201 http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/ The sun smitten; another case for literalism http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?155854-The-sun-smitten-another-case-for-literalism&goto=newpost Tue, 14 May 2013 06:07:11 GMT

Rev 8:12 "The fourth angel sounded, and a third of the sun and a third of the moon and a third of the stars were struck, so that a third of them would be darkened and the day would not shine for a third of it, and the night in the same way."



"Global dimming;" who would have thought it possible. Potential parallels? Maybe, maybe not. But maybe we should stop and pause when we're sure biblical literalism of natural phenomena shouldn't be taken literally, in spite of how absurd it sounds...

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/13/science/13DARK.html ]]> Eschatology 201 seanD http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?155854-The-sun-smitten-another-case-for-literalism An Alternative to Religio-Historical Interpretation http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?155764-An-Alternative-to-Religio-Historical-Interpretation&goto=newpost Mon, 06 May 2013 13:57:20 GMT Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath *wisdom*. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. Traditional interpretation sees the purpose of symbolism in Revelation and Daniel is to represent kings and...

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.



Traditional interpretation sees the purpose of symbolism in Revelation and Daniel is to represent kings and nations in a historical or prophetic way. This understanding was present even before Christianity. However, there was another way of looking at these things in the early church that was based on God's wisdom. The symbolism was understood as a description of the ages of man and the ages of the world.


Quote:
4. But that we may not leave our subject at this point undemonstrated, we are obliged to discuss the matter of the times, of which a man should not speak hastily, because they are a light to him. For as the times are noted from the foundation of the world, and reckoned from Adam, they set clearly before us the matter with which our inquiry deals. For the first appearance of our Lord in the flesh took place in Bethlehem, under Augustus, in the year 5500; and He suffered in the thirty-third year. And 6,000 years must needs be accomplished, in order that the Sabbath may come (Heb 4:4), the rest, the holy day “on which God rested from all His works.” For the Sabbath is the type and emblem of the future kingdom of the saints, when they “shall reign with Christ,” when He comes from heaven, as John says in his Apocalypse: for “a day with the Lord is as a thousand years.” (Ps. xc. 4). Since, then, in six days God made all things, it follows that 6,000 years must be fulfilled. And they are not yet fulfilled, as John says: “five are fallen; one is,” that is, the sixth; “the other is not yet come.” (Apoc. xvii. 10.)
The interpretation by Hippolytus, (bishop) of Rome, of the visions of Daniel and Nebuchadnezzar, taken in conjunction.
This interpretation of heads as millennia from Hippolytus is sometime thought of as unique, but such isn't the case.


Quote:
...I asked her about the four colours which the beast had on his head. And she answered, and said to me, “Again you are inquisitive in regard to such matters.” “Yea, Lady,” said I, “make known to me what they are.” “Listen,” said she: “the black is the world in which we dwell: but the fiery and bloody points out that the world must perish through blood and fire: but the golden part are you who have escaped from this world. For as gold is tested by fire, and thus becomes useful, so are you tested who dwell in it. Those, therefore, who continue stedfast, and are put through the fire, will be purified by means of it. For as gold casts away its dross, so also will ye cast away all sadness and straitness, and will be made pure so as to fit into the building of the tower. But the white part is the age that is to come, in which the elect of God will dwell, since those elected by God to eternal life will be spotless and pure. Wherefore cease not speaking these things into the ears of the saints. This then is the type of the great tribulation that is to come. If ye wish it, it will be nothing. Remember those things which were written down before.” And saying this, she departed. But I saw not into what place she retired. There was a noise, however, and I turned round in alarm, thinking that that beast was coming. Hermas, VISION FOURTH., CHAP. III.
In a late first or early second century Christian document Hermas sees a beast that represents a coming great tribulation. It is similar to what we see in Revelation with the exception that it doesn't have multiple heads and horns as do the beasts in Revelation and Daniel. Instead Hermas is given a series of commandments and similitudes that will protect him through the coming tribulation. One interesting feature is that the beast has four colors on his head, somewhat like the four colors of horses found in Revelation six, although they aren't exactly the same colors. He is told that the colors on the beasts head represent ages, like Hippolytus said about the heads of the Revelation beast.


Quote:
...The final stumbling-block (or source of danger) approaches, concerning which it is written, as Enoch (Dan. ix. 24–27.) says, “For for this end the Lord has cut short the times and the days, that His Beloved may hasten; and He will come to the inheritance.” And the prophet also speaks thus: “Ten kingdoms shall reign upon the earth, and a little king shall rise up after them, who shall subdue under one three of the kings.” (Dan. vii. 24) In like manner Daniel says concerning the same, “And I beheld the fourth beast, wicked and powerful, and more savage than all the beasts of the earth, and how from it sprang up ten horns, and out of them a little budding horn, and how it subdued under one three of the great horns.” (Dan. vii. 7, 8) Ye ought therefore to understand. And this also I further beg of you, as being one of you, and loving you both individually and collectively more than my own soul, to take heed now to yourselves, and not to be like some, adding largely to your sins, and saying, “The covenant is both theirs and ours.” But they thus finally lost it, after Moses had already received it... Barnabas, ch. IV.
In another late first or early second century Christian writing, Barnabas discusses Daniel's vision and says it is related to an approaching time. Like Hermas and Hippolytus, Barnabas seems to feel it is related to an approaching time. Instead of talking about Rome or Nero, Barnabas launches into a discussion of the covenants.

Quote:
...He says also: “And he will cause a mark [to be put] in the forehead and in the right hand, that no one may be able to buy or sell, unless he who has the mark of the name of the beast or the number of his name; and the number is six hundred and sixty-six,” (Rev. xiii. 14, etc.) that is, six times a hundred, six times ten, and six units. [He gives this] as a summing up of the whole of that apostasy which has taken place during six thousand years. Irenaeus, Book V,Chapter XXVIII.—The distinction to be made between the righteous and the wicked. The future apostasy in the time of Antichrist, and the end of the world.
The second century Christian teacher Irenaeus also associates the beast with ages. So we see that an alternative explanation existed in the early church.

Quote:
Eusebius Pamphili, and Hippolytus the most holy bishop of Rome, compare the dream of Nebuchadnezzar now in question with the vision of the prophet Daniel. Since these have given a different interpretation of this vision now before us in their expositions, I deemed it necessary to transcribe what is said by Eusebius of Cæsarea, who bears the surname Pamphili, in the 15th book of his Gospel Demonstration; for he expounds the whole vision in these terms: “I think that this (i.e., the vision of Nebuchadnezzar) differs in nothing from the vision of the prophet. For as the prophet saw a great sea, so the king saw a great image. And again, as the prophet saw four beasts, which he interpreted as four kingdoms, so the king was given to understand four kingdoms under the gold, and silver, and brass, and iron. And again, as the prophet saw the division of the ten horns of the last beast, and three horns broken by one; so the king, in like manner, saw in the extremities of the image one part iron and another clay. And besides this, as the prophet, after the vision of the four kingdoms, saw the Son of man receive dominion, and power, and a kingdom; so also the king thought he saw a stone smite the whole image, and become a great mountain and fill the sea. And rightly so. For it was quite consistent in the king, whose view of the spectacle of life was so false, and who admired the beauty of the mere sensible colours, so to speak, in the picture set up to view, to liken the life of all men to a great image; but (it became) the prophet to compare the great and mighty tumult of life to a mighty sea. And it was fitting that the king, who prized the substances deemed precious among men, gold, and silver, and brass, and iron, should liken to these substances the kingdoms that held the sovereignty at different times in the life of men; but that the prophet should describe these same kingdoms under the likeness of beasts, in accordance with the manner of their rule. And again, the king—who was puffed up, as it seems, in his own conceit, and plumed himself on the power of his ancestors—is shown the vicissitude to which affairs are subject, and the end destined for all the kingdoms of earth, with the view of teaching him to lay aside his pride in himself, and understand that there is nothing stable among men, but only that which is the appointed end of all things—the kingdom of God. For after the first kingdom of the Assyrians, which was denoted by the gold, there will be the second kingdom of the Persians, expressed by the silver; and then the third kingdom of the Macedonians, signified by the brass; and after it, the fourth kingdom of the Romans will succeed, more powerful than those that went before it; for which reason also it was likened to iron. For of it is said: “And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron; as iron breaketh and subdueth all things, so shall it break and subdue all things.” And after all these kingdoms which have been mentioned, the kingdom of God is represented by the stone that breaks the whole image. And the prophet, in conformity with this, does not see the kingdom which comes at the end of all these things, until he has in order described the four dominions mentioned under the four beasts. And I think that the visions shown, both to the king and to the prophet, were visions of these four kingdoms alone, and of none others, because by these the nation of the Jews was held in bondage from the times of the prophet.” SCholia on Daniel
Eusebius says that the nations in Daniel's visions represent "different times in the life of men", and "these four kingdoms alone, and of none others, because by these the nation of the Jews was held in bondage from the times of the prophet." Israel is seen as a type of the life of Christ, which is the Gospel. (Mat 2:15, Exo_4:22; Num_24:8; Hos_11:1)

Quote:
4. Being thirty years old when He came to be baptized, and then possessing the full age of a Master, He came to Jerusalem, so that He might be properly acknowledged by all as a Master. For He did not seem one thing while He was another, as those affirm who describe Him as being man only in appearance; but what He was, that He also appeared to be. Being a Master, therefore, He also possessed the age of a Master, not despising or evading any condition of humanity, nor setting aside in Himself that law which He had appointed for the human race, but sanctifying every age, by that period corresponding to it which belonged to Himself. For He came to save all through means of Himself—all, I say, who through Him are born again to God—infants, and children, and boys, and youths, and old men. He therefore passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, thus sanctifying infants; a child for children, thus sanctifying those who are of this age, being at the same time made to them an example of piety, righteousness, and submission; a youth for youths, becoming an example to youths, and thus sanctifying them for the Lord. So likewise He was an old man for old men, that He might be a perfect Master for all, not merely as respects the setting forth of the truth, but also as regards age, sanctifying at the same time the aged also, and becoming an example to them likewise. Then, at last, He came on to death itself, that He might be “the first-born from the dead, that in all things He might have the pre-eminence,” (Col. i. 18.) the Prince of life, (Acts iii. 15.) existing before all, and going before all. (John viii. 56, 57; comp. Isa. liii. 2.)Irenaeus, Book II, Chapter XXII. (Compare to Victornius in On the Creation of the World)
Irenaeus and Victornius tell how Christ sanctified every age and represented every stage of life. This is the spiritual significance of the ages. This understanding of scripture didn't disappear with the early church, but persisted into the middle ages. Modern scholars Koester (Revelation and the End of All Things) and Wainright (Mysterious Apocalypse: Interpreting the Book of Revelation) say that the seven heads were interpreted as the seven deadly sins and the ten horns were the breaking of the ten commandments to some interpreters. The symbolism isn't unique to the Bible. Wisdom from other cultures saw the ages and stages of life in a similar way. Hesiod (700 BC) and Plato (428-348 BC) used simlar symbolism.

Quote:
In the succeeding generation rulers will be appointed who have lost the guardian power of testing the metal of your different races, which, like Hesiod's, are of gold and silver and brass and iron. And so iron will be mingled with silver, and brass with gold, and hence there will arise dissimilarity and inequality and irregularity, which always and in all places are causes of hatred and war. Plato's Republic, Book VIII
The meaning of the Revelation seals is sometimes represented as fairly unique in scripture. But the wars, famines, pestilences and catastrophes can also be seen in the Gospel (Mat 24, Mark 13, Luke 21). There are also similar patterns in Zechariah 1-3, Isaiah 21-22, Jeremiah 51. You can find some or all of the following symbols.

1. horses/chariots
2. candlesticks
3. Babylon/Jerusalem/daughter
4. Babylon fallen
5. Key
6. Son of man, Son of God
7. Burning mountain into sea
8. Sheshach, dragon
9. Euphrates.
10. Cup
11. Birth/birth pangs

If we look at these things according to the alternate interpretation of wisdom we can understand them as the stages of life and the Gospel.

Jer 51:22 With thee also will I break in pieces man and woman; and with thee will I break in pieces old and young; and with thee will I break in pieces the young man and the maid;

]]> Eschatology 201 eschaton http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?155764-An-Alternative-to-Religio-Historical-Interpretation Prophecy Commentary http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?155757-Prophecy-Commentary&goto=newpost Sun, 05 May 2013 21:13:22 GMT I'm an absolute beginner to eschatological prophecy. What's a good commentary on things like the book of Revelation and other "end times" subjects? I'm looking for something that comments on the language, symbols, sociology, etc. behind the texts rather than something like "IDENTITY OF THE ANTICHRIST REVEALED." I don't really know where to start because since the third year or so that I converted I've ignored the subject. ]]> Eschatology 201 Hamster http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?155757-Prophecy-Commentary Apocalypse Part: Where Preterism, Idealism, or Literal Histo http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?155667-Apocalypse-Part-Where-Preterism-Idealism-or-Literal-Histo&goto=newpost Sat, 27 Apr 2013 00:49:17 GMT Apocalypse Part: Where Preterism, Idealism, or Literal Historicism don't Work

Apocalypse cannot always be just a vague parable, not in all places

There are simply some few places in apocalypse that cannot be merely ideealistic, that is, applying to any age of history, this verse especially:

Apocalypse 17, near verse 8:

And the seven heads of the beast are seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come, but when he does, he must continue a short space. And the beast which was and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition.

Again, clearly, this cannot just be a parable of how "evil" keeps coming back to the Church again and again, over and over.

Because there is no way that in every stage of trouble for God's People, five things fall, one is then present, and perhaps two follow. That is nonsense. That is way too specific for every general age of sin in God's Plan.

Hence, something of a broader mystical and definitive context exists here.

And sorry, Roman Emperors is silly. How many pagan rulers precede St John's visions, how many reign during his writing, and how many follow, is simply non-consequential. For all those Roman Emperors have the same spiritual characteristic: they think they are almighty God and wrathfully persecute the Church.

But how many of them precede the writing of apocalypse, and how many follow, is of no consequence, such details will not alter the age of this martyrdom and pagan misunderstanding. Such data is arbitrary, and could be fudged without changing the general nature of the age of persecution that commenced Church history.

What else is left, therefore, except a profound spiritual historicism, as St. Hippolytus suggested, eight ages of human history.

Yes, if these ages had theological reasoning behind them, then a great mystery is present here, and not just a secondary verse of a handful of arbitrary Roman Emperors.

Indeed, in my book, I show this verse may be one of the deepest of the apocalypse itself, and of all of Scripture, revealing a profound reason and theology for God's Overall Plan of history.

Apocalypse 17, near verse 8:

And the seven heads of the beast are seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come, but when he does, he must continue a short space. And the beast which was and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition.

Further analysis, a historicist interpretation of some Fathers, cited in Douhay Rheims and Channoler Rheims Catholic Translations, sees them as literal kingdoms:

Five have fallen:

Egypt
Assyria
Babylon
Persia
Greece

One is:

Rome

Other has not yet come:

Antichrist's Kingdom

Problem with this, again, is, Christ said, for kingdom shall rise against kingdom, and nation against nation, but the end is not yet.

New Testament Revelation transcends mere geography. The issue is rather the psychology of the general fall in human history.

Hence, the "kings" of the beast should surely, if any depth is there, deal with spiritual ages that are theologically ordered and necessary. Else we could ask, why did merely FIVE kingdoms of sin fall before Christ came? Why not six? Or three? Or 17?

Herein is a rigorous, meaningful five ages before the Christ:

The Jews before Christ's first coming, and Catholic Church before the second coming, themselves seem veritably to journey through a three great darkness process, not arbitrary, for the way of the saint is not arbitrary:

Purgation: sting the body, that it may obey the spirit: the dark night of senses
Illumination: sting the soul, that is my trust God's truth when all seems lost, the dark night of the soul
Union: rest the body and soul and offer them up in utter sacrifice in death, martyrdom

Hence, three kings of Old fall right before Christ:

3. The Old Testament king of the dark night of senses, Egypt
4. The Old Testament king of the dark night of soul, supreme Jewish apostasy before Exile
5. The Old Testament King of martyrodm, Antiochus, maccabees

Three kings of New fall after Christ:

6. The New Testament king of the dark night of senses, pagan Rome
7. The New Testament king of the dark night of soul, the modern minor apostasy
8. The New Testament King of martyrodm, Great Apostasy and future NT Antichrist

As for the other two kings of Old before Egypt, there are two great lies of the fall, two horns for the False Prophet:

1. The king of the first great lie of the fall is anti-Baptism, no faith, no repentance, Noah's day, and it was slain by a Baptism, the Flood

2. The king of the second great lie of the fall, anti-Marriage toward God, materialism (world chooses superficial partner in the CreaTION as opposed to spouse in CreaTOR), the Tower of Babel, is slain by God through confounding, after which He MARRIES a remnant, the Hebrew People through Abraham. ]]> Eschatology 201 spauline http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?155667-Apocalypse-Part-Where-Preterism-Idealism-or-Literal-Histo You have heard the Antichrist is coming... http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?155647-You-have-heard-the-Antichrist-is-coming&goto=newpost Fri, 26 Apr 2013 10:28:21 GMT Again, this will not be exhaustive, but I will attempt to prove that the coming of the Antichrist--though many antichrists have appeared and will appear--is the appearance of a particular individual described and prophesied all throughout Scripture and also that his appearance did not occur in the 1st century.

It is of course necessary to establish the context for this individual. He does not appear in a vaccuum. His appearance is first foretold in mankind's earliest recorded prophecy:

Genesis 3:14-15

So the LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,

“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15 And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”



Who is this serpent?

Revelation 12:7-9

Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray.



Who is the serpent's offspring? That is to say, who is the offspring of Satan? Quick aside, most Christians have no problem admitting that the "seed of the woman" refers to Christ, but some object to the claim that Satan has his own "superman", so to speak, though consistent interpretation of the prophecy demands it.

John 8:31-47

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”

34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”

39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.”

“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”



So the Lord says that Satan does indeed have children, and these are those who do not belong to God but who are liars and sons of the father of lies. Scripture elaborates on Satan's children:

Ephesians 2:1-2

1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience



So Satan is "father" to the "sons of disobedience." Take note of the italicized portion:

1 John 4:1-3

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.



Clearly the "spirit of the antichrist" is the same as the "spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience", which had always been in the world and was not the fulfillment of the prophesied and coming Antichrist, who would be the greatest and physical embodiment of this spirit as Christ was God made flesh.

Scripture further elaborates on who Satan's children or the "sons of disobedience" are:

Ephesians 5:5-6

For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.



Colossians 3:5-7

Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.



This also puts matters in a new light when we consider that the Lord called the Pharisees a "brood of vipers", which is another way of saying, "seed of serpents."

It may readily be admitted that the Bible presents the wicked as the sons of Satan, but some may object that does not mean that Satan will have a particular son who represents him on earth as Christ represented His Father, the Most High. But Scripture, like Him who inspired it, is consistent, and we must allow it to interpret itself whenever possible:

Galatians 3:16

The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ.



So the seed refers to many and yet one, as it is with many antichrists and yet one.

Galatians 3:26-29

So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.



Clearly Paul is here speaking of the same "seed" promised in Genesis 3 (according to THE promise) and this can be seen by the fact that God renewed the promise with certain descendants of "the woman" straight through to Abraham:

Genesis 9:8-9

Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 “I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you



Genesis 9:26

He also said,

“Praise be to the LORD, the God of Shem!
May Canaan be the slave of Shem.



Genesis 11:10,26

This is the account of Shem’s family line. ... 26 After Terah had lived 70 years, he became the father of Abram, Nahor and Haran.



Genesis 17:3-7

Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4 “As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5 No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you.



Again: So the seed refers to many and yet one, as it is with many antichrists and yet one.

We can also refer back to the original prophecy for clues that Satan's "offspring" must be both corporate and an individual:

Genesis 3:15

And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”



Christians rightly take the fulfillment of the latter portion referring to a heel being stricken to have been fulfilled by Christ's crucifixion:

Psalm 22:16

For dogs have surrounded Me;
The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They pierced My hands and My feet;



Take note of the fact that it's "the congregation of the wicked" responsible for this. Sounds like the "sons of the wicked one."

Isn't it consistent to suggest that the corresponding "head wound" to the serpent's offspring must likewise be literal and physical? Indeed, the mortal fate of the Antichrist is given in Scripture more than once:

2 Thessalonians 2:8

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.



Revelation 13:3

One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed.



Daniel 11:45

He will pitch his royal tents between the seas at the beautiful holy mountain. Yet he will come to his end, and no one will help him.



Daniel 9:
27

He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.



Daniel 8:23-25

“In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, will arise. 24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy those who are mighty, the holy people. 25 He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power.



Daniel 7:11-12, 21-22, 26-27

“Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. 12 (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.)...21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the holy people and defeating them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the holy people of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom. ... 26 “‘But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’



The words in bold in the above verse are very reminiscent of:

Revelation 19:20

But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.



Isaiah 14:25

I will crush the Assyrian in my land;
on my mountains I will trample him down.
His yoke will be taken from my people,
and his burden removed from their shoulders.”



Ezekiel 28:8-9

They will bring you down to the pit,
and you will die a violent death
in the heart of the seas.
9 Will you then say, “I am a god,”
in the presence of those who kill you?



Ezekiel 39:1-4

“Son of man, prophesy against Gog and say: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against you, Gog, chief prince of Meshek and Tubal. 2 I will turn you around and drag you along. I will bring you from the far north and send you against the mountains of Israel. 3 Then I will strike your bow from your left hand and make your arrows drop from your right hand. 4 On the mountains of Israel you will fall, you and all your troops and the nations with you. I will give you as food to all kinds of carrion birds and to the wild animals.



As I said earlier, the Antichrist does not appear in a vaccuum. Revelation makes it clear that the beast is the earthly head of a system of wickedness ultimately controlled by the devil:

Revelation 13:1-2

The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. 2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.



This system, as well as sharing the name of "beast" with the Antichrist, is referred to as "Mystery Babylon" and "Babylon the Great":

Revelation 16:19

The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed. God remembered Babylon the Great and gave her the cup filled with the wine of the fury of his wrath.



Revelation 17:5-6

The name written on her forehead was a mystery:

BABYLON THE GREAT

THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES

AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6 I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of God’s holy people, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.



The Antichrist and his kingdom is only the culmination of a system of wickedness (or as Gabriel told Daniel, "the latter part of their reign, when the rebels have become completely wicked") that has existed since ancient times, indeed, since the beginning of human history. We see mention of the "beast system" in Daniel:

Daniel 7:2-7

Daniel said: “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me were the four winds of heaven churning up the great sea. 3 Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea.4 “The first was like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle. I watched until its wings were torn off and it was lifted from the ground so that it stood on two feet like a human being, and the mind of a human was given to it.

5 “And there before me was a second beast, which looked like a bear. It was raised up on one of its sides, and it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. It was told, ‘Get up and eat your fill of flesh!’

6 “After that, I looked, and there before me was another beast, one that looked like a leopard. And on its back it had four wings like those of a bird. This beast had four heads, and it was given authority to rule.

7 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.



The four beasts correspond to the four sections of the statue from Nebuchadnezzar's dream:

Daniel 2:31-43

“Your Majesty looked, and there before you stood a large statue—an enormous, dazzling statue, awesome in appearance. 32 The head of the statue was made of pure gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, 33 its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay. 34 While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and smashed them. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were all broken to pieces and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth.

36 “This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king. 37 Your Majesty, you are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; 38 in your hands he has placed all mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds in the sky. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold.

39 “After you, another kingdom will arise, inferior to yours. Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth. 40 Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron—for iron breaks and smashes everything—and as iron breaks things to pieces, so it will crush and break all the others. 41 Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay. 42 As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. 43 And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay.



From this we know the first section of the statue--a.k.a. the first beast--is Babylon.

Daniel 8:19-22

He said: “I am going to tell you what will happen later in the time of wrath, because the vision concerns the appointed time of the end. 20 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between its eyes is the first king. 22 The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power.



From this we know that the 2nd beast is Media/Persia and that the 3rd beast is Greece.

This leaves the fourth and final beast, which is not named in Daniel (because the name did not yet exist), but which we now know to be Rome. We know this because Rome was in fact the conqueror/successor of the 3rd "beast", was the only empire to rule the known world after Greece and who in fact traded heavily in iron and used it to form steel, which made Roman swords, shields and armor superior to any other in the world. But this fourth beast is described as different from the rest and if we use Scriptural clues, we can see why. The fourth beast (Rome) corresponds to the "legs" on the statue:

Daniel 2:32-33

The head of the statue was made of pure gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, 33 its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay.



First, just as Media/Persia, which corresponds to the statue's "arms" of silver, Rome apparently is made up of at least two constituent parts. In the case of Media/Persia, the kingdom of the Medes and the kingdom of the Persians formed one empire which began as a unified empire when Cyrus--born a Mede, but king of Persia--conquered Babylon. Take note that no mention is made of the statue's hands or fingers, unlike the legs, feet and toes, which are mentioned. In the case of Rome, which began unified, a later political "split" in the time of Constantine and religious "split" when the Orthodox church split from the Roman Catholic church saw the fulfillment of this "multiple constituent parts" or "two legs" prophecy.

Let's take a closer look at the beast of Revelation:

Revelation 13:1-2

The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. 2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion.



We see here that the beast of Revelation is an amalgamation of all the other beasts. This means that it cannot merely be Rome, which is one reason why a 1st century fulfillment of Revelation is impossible. In fact, it is the Rome which is described as "becoming mixed with clay (the influence and peoples of the other empires), which took place after the aforementioned "splits" and the Rome which is said not to meet its final destruction until the 2nd coming of Christ(!):

Daniel 2:34-35, 40-45

34 While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and smashed them. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were all broken to pieces and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth. ... Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron—for iron breaks and smashes everything—and as iron breaks things to pieces, so it will crush and break all the others. 41 Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay. 42 As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. 43 And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay.

44 “In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. 45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands—a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces.



The connection between the fourth beast and the beast of Revelation is seen quite convincingly here:

Daniel 2:23

“He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.



Revelation 13:5-7

The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. 7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.



A "time, times and half a time" is equal to 42 months.

Revelation 17:12

“The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.



Both Daniel and Revelation mention the ten kings who "reign alongside the beast", who is "different from the others." Clearly if the ten kings are ten individuals, which they must be, since they "give their power to the beast" then the beast is also an individual.

Although Nebuchadnezzar was the king of Babylon at the time of Daniel's prophecies, he was not the first king of Babylon, and it was not his throne which passed from him through Persia, Greece, Rome and which will ultimately be given to the beast by the dragon. We have to go further back to find the first king of Babylon; that is, the first king given his throne by the dragon:

Genesis 10:8-12

Cush was the father of Nimrod, who became a mighty warrior on the earth. 9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD; that is why it is said, “Like Nimrod, a mighty hunter before the LORD.” 10 The first centers of his kingdom were Babylon, Uruk, Akkad and Kalneh, in Shinar. 11 From that land he went to Assyria, where he built Nineveh, Rehoboth Ir, Calah 12 and Resen, which is between Nineveh and Calah—which is the great city.



The Scripture is somewhat confusing for modern readers here, because it says that Nimrod was a mighty hunter before the Lord. The connotation is actually that Nimrod was someone who stood against the Lord...as a king. Ancient Jewish thought was that Nimrod was a king, and a wicked one at that, as Josephus (the preterists will love this reference) attests to here:

Antiquities of the Jews, Book 1, Chapter 4

"Now it was Nimrod who excited them to such an affront and contempt of God. He was the grandson of Ham, the son of Noah, a bold man, and of great strength of hand. He persuaded them not to ascribe it to God, as if it were through his means they were happy, but to believe that it was their own courage which procured that happiness. He also gradually changed the government into tyranny, seeing no other way of turning men from the fear of God, but to bring them into a constant dependence on his power. He also said he would be revenged on God, if he should have a mind to drown the world again; for that he would build a tower too high for the waters to reach. And that he would avenge himself on God for destroying their forefathers.

Now the multitude were very ready to follow the determination of Nimrod, and to esteem it a piece of cowardice to submit to God; and they built a tower, neither sparing any pains, nor being in any degree negligent about the work: and, by reason of the multitude of hands employed in it, it grew very high, sooner than any one could expect; but the thickness of it was so great, and it was so strongly built, that thereby its great height seemed, upon the view, to be less than it really was. It was built of burnt brick, cemented together with mortar, made of bitumen, that it might not be liable to admit water. When God saw that they acted so madly, he did not resolve to destroy them utterly, since they were not grown wiser by the destruction of the former sinners; but he caused a tumult among them, by producing in them diverse languages, and causing that, through the multitude of those languages, they should not be able to understand one another. The place wherein they built the tower is now called Babylon, because of the confusion of that language which they readily understood before; for the Hebrews mean by the word Babel, confusion…"



A king who wishes to avenge himself on God while transforming the government of man into a tyranny who is thwarted by God Himself sounds like the Antichrist, and that is no coincidence, because Nimrod is the first great "type" of this son of perdition, as Christ had "types" or "foreshadowings" of His own in Scripture.

While I will of course strive to support all of the arguments herein with Scripture, there is much scholarship, accepted history and extrabiblical material which can help "flesh out" what Scripture only provides fascinating clues into.

That said, "The Two Babylons", by Alexander Hislop, is a superb source of information regarding the Satanic family responsible for the origin of Mystery Babylon: Nimrod, his wife (and mother in some versions) Semiramis and their son Tammuz. I will provide a very brief synopsis here before expounding with Scripture. The story goes that after Nimrod's untimely and brutal death (some versions say at the hands of Shem, others at Abraham), Semiramis was left as the titular head of the kingdom of Babylon. To consolidate her power, she claimed that the child she soon gave birth to, Tammuz, was the reincarnation of Nimrod and as a miraculous "virgin birth" also represented the fulfillment of the "seed of the woman" prophecy. Whether it happened during their lifetimes or occurred over time is unimportant, but eventually the entire family became deified as gods, with Semiramis becoming the "Queen of Heaven", mother of the god Tammuz. She was worshipped as such under various guises in succeeding cultures: Isis, Ashteroth, Hera and, tragically, Mary (not the real mother of our Lord, but the usurped version of her presented by the Catholics).

Jeremiah 7:18

"The children gather wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead the dough and make cakes of bread for the Queen of Heaven. They pour out drink offerings to other gods to provoke me to anger."



Jeremiah 44:15-18

"Then all the men who knew that their wives were burning incense to other gods, along with all the women who were present—a large assembly—and all the people living in Lower and Upper Egypt, said to Jeremiah, "We will not listen to the message you have spoken to us in the name of the LORD! We will certainly do everything we said we would: We will burn incense to the Queen of Heaven and will pour out drink offerings to her just as we and our fathers, our kings and our officials did in the towns of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem. At that time we had plenty of food and were well off and suffered no harm. But ever since we stopped burning incense to the Queen of Heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, we have had nothing and have been perishing by sword and famine." "



Ezekiel 8:14-15

"Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz. Then said he unto to me, 'Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these."



The Israelite women were participating in the ritualistic mourning for the death of Nimrod, who was "reincarnated" in his son and whose death/rising was ritualistically worshipped in his succeeding incarnation, Osiris. Osiris was represented by the sun, the ram and the bull, among other things, but reconsider the accounts of the Israelites making a golden calf to "replace" the Lord God, both during and long after the Exodus.

Micah 5:5-6

And he will be our peace
when the Assyrians invade our land
and march through our fortresses.
We will raise against them seven shepherds,
even eight commanders,
6 who will rule the land of Assyria with the sword,
the land of Nimrod with drawn sword.
He will deliver us from the Assyrians
when they invade our land
and march across our borders.



This religion surrounding Nimrod and his family was not overly popular after the judgment at the tower of Babel and amongst a humanity that still acknowledged the supremacy and righteousness of the Most High God, so it was forced "underground" and preserved from generation to generation amongst an exclusive class of priesthood in secret rituals referred to as "mysteries", hence Mystery Babylon. As can be expected from a religion diametrically opposed to the worship of the true God, the "rites" of this religion involved every form of debauchery, including orgies, blasphemy and ritualistic murder/sacrifice. The religion was especially popular amongst the Canaanites, the perenniel enemies of the Israelites. The Canaanite version of Nimrod/Osiris was Baal/Molech.

Leviticus 18:21

“‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.



Jeremiah 19:4-5

For they have forsaken me and made this a place of foreign gods; they have burned incense in it to gods that neither they nor their ancestors nor the kings of Judah ever knew, and they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent. 5 They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.



The "high priest" of the mystery religion was known as the Pontificus Maximus. After Nimrod, Balaam filled this office. The "throne" remained in Babylon before moving to Persia and then to the Greco-Roman city of Pergamum:

Revelation 2:12-15

“To the angel of the church in Pergamum write:
These are the words of him who has the sharp, double-edged sword. 13 I know where you live—where Satan has his throne. Yet you remain true to my name. You did not renounce your faith in me, not even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was put to death in your city—where Satan lives.

14 Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality. 15 Likewise, you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans.



This "mystery" religion has survived to the present day, most notably embodied in Freemasonry. The Antichrist will be an "initiate" of these "mysteries", referred to as "the Craft" by the initiated:

Daniel 8:23-25

And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.



The Antichrist and beast system also represent the last gasp of the Gentile powers, which end will see the ushering in on earth of the kingdom of heaven, whose king is King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Jesus Christ.

Luke 21:24

Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.



Romans 11:25-26

I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved.



Revelation 11:1-2

I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.



I said that this post was not meant to be exhaustive, so I will not go into detail about how this secret "priesthood" passed on wealth and power to one another from generation to generation in the common goal of furthering their "religion."

The goal since the tower of Babel judgment has been to reverse its effects, complete with the installation of a king mighty enough to "make a name for themselves" and "avenge themselves on God."

Psalm 2:1-6, 10-12

Why do the nations conspire
and the peoples plot in vain?
2 The kings of the earth rise up
and the rulers band together
against the LORD and against his anointed, saying,
3 “Let us break their chains
and throw off their shackles.”
4 The One enthroned in heaven laughs;
the Lord scoffs at them.
5 He rebukes them in his anger
and terrifies them in his wrath, saying,
6 “I have installed my king
on Zion, my holy mountain.” ...

10 Therefore, you kings, be wise;
be warned, you rulers of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear
and celebrate his rule with trembling.
12 Kiss his son, or he will be angry
and your way will lead to your destruction,
for his wrath can flare up in a moment.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

]]> Eschatology 201 Darfius http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?155647-You-have-heard-the-Antichrist-is-coming