TheologyWeb Campus - Christianity 201

YEC perspective of Adam and Eve

Stefcui — Tue, 21 May 2013 23:30:20 GMT

Does the genesis genealogies (Genesis 5 & 11) showing the genealogy of Adam to Noah, then from Noah to Abraham, matter to faith? When Jesus Christ is said to be "the son of David, the son of Abraham", in "the book of the generation of Jesus Christ" (Matthew 1:1), does it matter if we claim that this is false? Can we believe in Christ and yet claim that His generation is false?

Scripture says of Christ:

Quote:

Matthew 1:1-17

Abraham was the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers, Judah the father of Perez and Zerah (by Tamar), Perez the father of Hezron, Hezron the father of Ram, Ram the father of Amminadab, Amminadab the father of Nahshon, Nahshon the father of Salmon, Salmon the father of Boaz (by Rahab), Boaz the father of Obed (by Ruth), Obed the father of Jesse, and Jesse the father of David the king.

David was the father of Solomon (by the wife of Uriah), Solomon the father of Rehoboam, Rehoboam the father of Abijah, Abijah the father of Asa, Asa the father of Jehoshaphat, Jehoshaphat the father of Joram, Joram the father of Uzziah, Uzziah the father of Jotham, Jotham the father of Ahaz, Ahaz the father of Hezekiah, Hezekiah the father of Manasseh, Manasseh the father of Amon, Amon the father of Josiah, and Josiah the father of Jeconiah and his brothers, at the time of the deportation to Babylon.

After the deportation to Babylon, Jeconiah became the father of Shealtiel, Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel, Zerubbabel the father of Abiud, Abiud the father of Eliakim, Eliakim the father of Azor, Azor the father of Zadok, Zadok the father of Achim, Achim the father of Eliud, Eliud the father of Eleazar, Eleazar the father of Matthan, Matthan the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, by whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ.

So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, and from David to the deportation to Babylon, fourteen generations, and from the deportation to Babylon to Christ, fourteen generations.

Is this generation of Jesus false? Is Jesus false? Does the bible contain lies? Following on, Luke also gives a description of the generation of Jesus:

Quote:

Luke 3:23-38

So Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years old. He was the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda, the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er, the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David, the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Sala, the son of Nahshon, the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Arni, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Kenan, the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Now, according to Theistic Evolutionists (TE), Creation Evolutionists (CE) and Old Earth Creationists (OEC), this gospel account is completely false. It never happened. This is not the genealogy and generation of Jesus, and anyone who believes it is has been suckered into false teachings that are only for the gullible and naive. According to these ones, the so called "Adamic Sin" is fictitious, because Adam was fictitious. The original marriage is fictitious; the original sin is fictitious; the 'old man' is fictitious, and so on.

Pastor Mark Driscol states, in The Biblical Necessity of Adam and Eve, that "This question of the historicity of Adam and Eve is important because it’s the foundation of the biblical story. Without a real Adam and Eve, the Bible loses its basis for the fall, sin, the need for redemption, and the need for Jesus and atonement." I agree with him. I would like to here from other evangelical christians and historical christians who still firmly believe in the accuracy of the bible.

God Bless

Stoning Rebellious Children

siliconwafer — Tue, 21 May 2013 22:33:11 GMT

I have heard people ask the following questions and I was wondering how anyone here on this DB would answer them.

Why was ok to stone rebellious children during Old Testament times, but not ok now? If Jesus said that He came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill it, does this mean that all of the Old Testament commands are applicable to us today?

YEC perspective of TE and OEC

Stefcui — Mon, 20 May 2013 02:53:51 GMT

These questions are mainly for Theistic Evolutionists and Old Earth Creationists. Are you game to identify your true faith?

Does the bible contain myths and legends? Is the narrative of the flood simple a myth? or the narrative of the Exodus, and the parting of the Red Sea, is this a myth? What about the creation account... Is a belief in a literal Adam and Eve required to accept the gospel account of Christ's genealogy? Can Adam and Eve be simply figureheads of evolved humanity, or are they literally the first humans to exist? Does it matter? Can we pick and choose which parts of the bible to believe and which to reject and still be classified a "christian"? I would like to hear particularly form Theistic Evolutionists and Old Earth Creationists who seem to believe also in Neanderthal man and Peking man. Did Adam really evolve from Neanderthal man? Did Christ really descend from Neanderthal man? How are these beliefs consistent with traditional christianity? Is it consistent to believe in the eternal trinity, and yet not believe in the creation account? What other parts of the bible do you believe are not true?

I understand that Christianity 201 is for christians only. It will be interesting how christians respond without atheists trying to assist them in their thinking.

God Bless

Seeking

SeekingAnswers — Sun, 19 May 2013 19:34:29 GMT

Hi everyone, I go by the moniker Seeker, and I was recommended here by my friends via email to get some answers. First off let me tell you about myself... I am interested in philosophy of religion, history, and science. I am a stubborn new J.R.R Tolkien fan, and I have a particular interest in fictional books with Christian theology in them. Now, I like some people here, want to find the Truth about Jesus Christ. I will share my doubts on evidence, my questions on theology, and my desperation to find out if Jesus Christ really was who he said he was. I used to be a pretty hard-core believer in Christ but my faith was shaken after the idea that if God was real he would answer prayers. I may be considered an apostate and that's one reason why I am here. If Christ is true, I don't want to be an apostate, I can't help that I doubt if the Resurrection happened. I am faithless and I do not want to be any longer, I want to believe in something because I grow weary of the confusion of agnosticism. I recently left the Reasonable Faith forum because I got weary of all of the constant arguing, and pointless chatter. I wanted to come here to reason and talk to Christians about their faith. I hope we all get along and have reasonable conversations together.

Sincerely,

SeekingAnswers

Multiple water baptisms for a Christian?

foudroyant — Sat, 18 May 2013 23:44:36 GMT

Just wondering what you people think of multiple water baptisms for a Christian. I mean if a person was water baptized in a particular Christian church should they be water baptized again if they join another Christian denomination? What if such a person in their life has changed their Christian denomination several times do you think it's necessary to undergo water baptism each time a change took place?

Historical Information About Saints

TimelessTheist — Wed, 15 May 2013 00:56:35 GMT

Recently, I've been researched (or, in actuality, trying to research) the historicity, mostly the miracle claims, of Catholic Saints, most notably, one "Saint Joseph of Cupertino". Does anyone know where I can find historical attestation to these saints, or even where I should look, as being obscure characters, I can only find biographies of them on online Catholic websites. Anyone know where I should look?

160,000 people die every day. What is their eternal destiny

IceAndFire1328 — Fri, 10 May 2013 00:05:44 GMT

Poll Survey: The World�s Mortality Rate

Over 162,000 will die on an average day. What is their eternal destiny? Obviously, we have no idea. However, some people have estimated that only 7% of the world�s population adheres to the Biblical plan of salvation. Even if that estimate is totally wrong and the number is actually 70%, that still means that over 48,000 are going to Hell every day.

What is the relevancy of these numbers? Should these numbers have any impact on our lives? I�m conducting a poll and would like your opinion on this issue.

Calculations:

World�s population: 7.08 billion
A little less than 1% (0.837%) of the world�s population died last year
7.08 billion x .837% (.00837) = 59,259,600 deaths a year
59,259,600 divided by 365 days = 162,355 deaths a day
162,355 x 30% (.30) = 48,706 people going to Hell

Borrowing: Mythic Underworlds, etc.

Scrawly — Wed, 01 May 2013 02:19:57 GMT

In Job 17:16 there is an allusion to the "gates of death". In Job 38:17 God likewise alludes to the "gates of death". The Mesopotamian myths underpinning these concepts are seemingly indisputable (see also the mythologies underpinning the biblical words/concepts of Rahab and Leviathan). Indeed, In Mesopotamian myths the underworld has seven gates through which the goddess Ishtar and the god Nergal have to go; it is a place where you have to "go down" and the inhabitants eat dust. The Egyptian underworld also had gates, and the Egyptian tomb also had a "false door" which the spirit could enter.

So how should we regard this borrowing? Does the Bible borrow these mythic concepts and turn them on their head so to speak or what? It seems hard to argue that in the case of Job 38:17, for example.

Does the Bible teach miscegenation?

foudroyant — Tue, 30 Apr 2013 00:03:00 GMT

From the get-go my wife is from the Philippines.
I have heard from unbelievers (I heard that some believers believe this as well) that the Bible teaches miscegenation.

From what I understand is that we as Christians are to only marry other Christians (2 Corinthians 6:14). Some have pointed to Old Covenant commands where God forbids the Israelites from marrying non-Israelites but this is because they were of a different religious persuasion is it not? Didn't Moses marry Zipporah (an African)?

Questions concerning 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10

siliconwafer — Mon, 29 Apr 2013 03:51:13 GMT

2 Thessalonians 1:7-10 says, "and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed."

Jesus is going to inflict vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of Christ. What does it mean to not know God?

Romans 1:21 speaks of unbelievers as knowing God. How is the knowledge of God in Romans 1:21 different from the knowledge of God in 2 Thessalonians?

What does it mean to obey the gospel of Christ? Does that simply mean to trust in Jesus for your salvation?

The people in hell are not going to be annihilated; they are not going to cease to exist. Why does Paul use the word, "destruction?"

What does it mean to say that Jesus will be glorified in His saints?

In the name of the Father

RBerman — Fri, 26 Apr 2013 15:29:10 GMT

Matthew 28:19

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit...

John 14:13-14

Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

Protestants often close prayer with something like, "in Jesus' name, amen." Roman Catholics often close prayer "in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit." Either could be a matter of mere supersitition, but at their best, each group intends the prayer-closing formula as a reminder and sign that the act of prayer is a sign of dependance on God, and that prayer should be performed in accord with God's wishes and goals, just as an ambassador speaks in the name of the country that sends him.

Praying "in Jesus' name" (whether as a matter of attitude alone, or by actually verbalizing those words as well; the words without the attitude are hypocrisy) is easily understandable based on the John text quoted above. Similarly, Matthew attests specifically to baptizing "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" but doesn't discuss praying in that manner.

Does anyone know the specific origin of the Trinitarian formula in prayer particularly? Is it argued based on Matthew 28, or some other tradition?