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Read Me: Topics and Guidelines Applied Protology 301
February 7th 2007
Replies: x
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mpb1
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Posted: October 21st 2009
@ 10:05 AM
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I grew up in an ultra-conservative Christian family, and always believed in young earth creation. But over the years, as I began hearing about almost-irrefutable evidence related to the age of the earth (on PBS/NOVA, etc.), I gradually shifted to an old earth creation perspective because of:
- the fact that what we see in the night sky is starlight from stars that are billions of light years away (light that apparently took billions of years to reach the earth); and
- the fact that...
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easyboy201
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Posted: September 9th 2009
@ 04:22 PM
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I just wanted to say hi! It's great to have a little section, just for us.
Especially when there's so much confusion and adversity out there perpetrated by those who are fighting against God (it's really all a spiritual war, isn't it?).
Anyway, I've found with debating that if I source any creationist work - like from ICR for example that it is falliciously discredited as being false and "propaganda" before people will even give a chance what the argument is.
Has anyone else come across...
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jordanriver
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Posted: July 16th 2009
@ 10:18 AM
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How do we know whether or not a common ancestor species still exists.
JR
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truthman
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Posted: June 5th 2009
@ 04:35 AM
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Why did God give nipples to men?
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Ryan Dallion
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Posted: June 3rd 2009
@ 10:37 PM
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This question is primarily aimed toward believers in a local/regional flood, but anyone who has something to add is invited to take part in the discussion. :smile:
I was doing research into the Sumerial flood account and I found this http://faculty.gvsu.edu/websterm/SumerianMyth.htm
What interested me most was this part here
My question to anyone who believes that Noah's flood was local only, is this. Do you think it's possible that the flood in 3500 B.C. could have been the flood of Noah...
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TolkienFan
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Posted: May 30th 2009
@ 02:26 AM
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I tend to avoid debates in this area and will continue to do so. However, I am curious about something. I opened this thread to ask the question of how you came to your current point of view on protology. (Note: Just the facts, no debates please)
I am a YEC. I hold to the view not because of the science behind it (I don't really know much anymore in this area because I'm not interested in developing a scientific expertise), but because of exegesis. I was convinced that the Creation Week...
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P-Dunn
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Posted: May 14th 2009
@ 12:16 PM
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http://www.whywontgodhealamputees.com/watchmaker.htm
Does anybody else find this to be the must amusing, yet terrible, argument against design you've ever seen? Particularly the whole bit about the scrotum, which essentially goes as follows:
"I think scrotums look funny. I got kicked in the scrotum a lot as a kid. It hurts a lot. God could have made it so that the scrotum is inside the body, but He didn't. God, of course, would have to follow my wishes, because I know how to explain things to...
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jordanriver
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Posted: January 14th 2009
@ 11:52 PM
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I am wondering, whats the deal with the Garden of Eden. At the end of Genesis 3 God kicks out Adam and Eve and they cannot get back into Eden (apparently because there's Cherubims and a flaming sword to keep people out.
So, where did the world come from that they were evicted to. Earlier in Genesis, God plants a garden for Adam and Eve to habitate, (eastward in Eden).
The question is, was there a natural world going on 'outside of Eden' all the while that Adam and Eve dwelled there. Was Eden...
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jordanriver
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Posted: January 14th 2009
@ 02:09 AM
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In the Word of God, that is.
I don't care what fallable men have to say about it. I believe it is wiser to go straight to the One who created everything in the first place (if He created it, He would be the One who knows when He created it)
Is He an artist in His creation. The mountains are beautiful, and so is Jupiter. Were they created the way they are simply for aesthetic reasons. A human artist can paint a portrait of a middle-aged adult. No one would look at the portrait a few days after...
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dizzle
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Posted: December 21st 2008
@ 06:58 PM
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I know this could belong in eschatology, but I am wanting to focus on YEC hermeneutic and why its adherents do not follow that logically into preterism. As a futurist YEC, once confronted with the reality of the NT timing verses, I saw that if I were to be consistent (maybe someone here can prove me wrong in that consistency issue) I had to interpret NT timing issues the same way.
If God can tell and communicate time in Genesis can He not do so in Matthew, and Revelation?
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jordanriver
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Posted: December 2nd 2008
@ 08:40 AM
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Sure it sounds reasonable with the opening presentation. Days can be day ages. A day with the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years is just another way of say 'great big long time'
And what does it matter if the universe was around 13 to 15 billion years before God created Adam and Eve.
And what does it matter if the earth was around for about 4.5 billion years before God created Adam and Eve and then created a garden paradise for their habitation where nobody died or got sick and...
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jordanriver
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Posted: September 14th 2008
@ 01:55 AM
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In the "How is it so?" thread, I inquired:
Originally posted by jordanriver
How is it so? (good title for this thread)
How is it so that science has disproven YEC unless YEC is science (and can be falsified)
Is 'God-did-it' science ?
and Biologos101 replied:
Originally posted by Biologos101
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jordanriver
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Posted: August 26th 2008
@ 02:34 PM
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Do you think that refers to water under the surface of Earth, or, water from Deep Space. Could this be water that was already created and held in storage somewhere, (the Oort Cloud perhaps?).
thoughts?
JR
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superdan54
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Posted: August 6th 2008
@ 06:35 PM
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I was having a theological discussion with my father a while back, and one of the reoccuring themes were creatures that commit "horrible" acts. How this relates to theology is the presence of certain parasitic organisms in relation to God's "good" design upon the world. One example is the braconid wasp, which desposits eggs insite a host (usually an aphid), which then eat their way out of the host. Another example would be the candiru, which penetrate a fish's gills and contain sharp barbs...
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DanK
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Posted: July 27th 2008
@ 12:16 AM
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Ok, I hope this is the right place for this. I was just wondering, on the profile editing page, one of the choices for ontology is Open Creationist, and I was wondering what exactly that means. It sounds a lot like it could be what I believe but I've never heard the term before. For that matter, I've never heard of a specific term to describe my beliefs about it...
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Calminian
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Posted: March 2nd 2008
@ 07:20 PM
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I've been pondering the philosophical foundations of science for a long time. I'm wondering if it really is useful at all in the area of origins. I certainly believe science is useful today, but can we use it to extrapolate all the way back and give us insight about our beginning? Just one hypothetical miracle seems to have the ability to totally and completely confuse those looking at the physical evidence. Do we all rely on it too much? I'm asking this to both YECs and OECs. If our...
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jordanriver
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Posted: January 23rd 2008
@ 10:11 AM
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Paul writes "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" ( Romans 1:20 )
However, if the present world that we clearly see is exclusively the product of natural means, what did God do? What did God have to with it if natural processes did all the work.
How do the heavens declare the glory of God. That is, those heavens that we can see with...
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WindowOrMirror
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Posted: January 14th 2008
@ 05:30 PM
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As I lay out the possiblities around the Great Flood, I see that the world prior to this Flood could have been incredibly different from the one we see now. Making certain assumptions about how much water was available, what method God used to cause the Flood, and so on; we see that the earth is now VERY different. Here are some assumptions I used, and then I'll relate a visualization:
Biblically based assumptions
1. There were no rainbows prior to the Flood (this is debatable, but I beleive...
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joel
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Posted: October 31st 2007
@ 03:29 PM
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I would say that I am not an OEC or YEC, because I haven't looked into the matter closely enough to tell, although I tend to lean towards YEC, since that seems to me to be the most straightforward reading of the text, and I guess I don't know of what OEC arguments there are.
Probably this has been addressed in other threads, so someone might just direct me elsewhere, but here are my thoughts:
It seems to me that a straightforward reading of the text indicates a literal Adam and a literal...
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jordanriver
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Posted: August 5th 2007
@ 01:57 AM
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In this forum, are posters safe to engage in free exchange of ideas and even speculation?
When I ask, is it safe here, I don't only mean here, but in extension, to the other Tweb forums.
In other words, if a poster here has what might be a far-fetched bit of speculation, even though that poster is safe here , is the poster safe from ad hom attacks in the other forums.
In other words, just because a poster might not get ad hommed here, can the poster be maligned from another Tweb forum. Can...
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jordanriver
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Posted: August 4th 2007
@ 07:37 AM
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Skeptics always complain when we try to answer their challenges by occasionally invoking the supernatural.
But in the Bible, which is what is being challenged, there happens to be supernatural claims.
The Noachian Flood for example:
Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
Its pretty clear that Bible-Creator-God has informed the...
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PrometheusX303
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Posted: July 18th 2007
@ 07:11 AM
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From the Washington Post
In Evolution Debate, Creationists Are Breaking New Ground
Museum Dedicated to Biblical Interpretation Of the World Is Being Built Near Cincinnati
By Michael Powell
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, September 25, 2005; Page A03
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Teluog
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Posted: July 10th 2007
@ 01:23 AM
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Why did the author(s) of the Book of Genesis record the creation of Earth in 7 days? Obviously to the YEC the answer is "cause it was all created in 7 days!"
But what is the OEC reply to this? If the authors knew that creation happened over a week, then why wouldn't they say so?
I think we should take into account when the Book of Genesis was written as well. Was it written after the Sabbath law was prominent in Jewish culture? If so, would the authors have incorporated this into the...
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JonLanceBarker
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Posted: June 30th 2007
@ 11:54 PM
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hi, everybody.
i am a creationist who doesn't really care much about the OE-YE debate (it's not a faith-decider or anything like that, just an interesting question).
i am starting this thread because i see some Christians on tWeb have listed in their beliefs a certain protology of a name that i am completely unfamiliar with.
that protology is the Framework Hypothesis.
i have no idea what that means.
so my question is:
what is the Framework Hypothesis, and how does it fit in with Genesis?
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Socrates
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Posted: May 28th 2007
@ 02:10 AM
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:huh:
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Shadow Phoenix
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Posted: April 14th 2007
@ 04:43 PM
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I was asked to start a thread on this topic and so I will do so and state just some simple reasons.
First off, biblically, I do not see the word for for the area flooded having to apply to the whole world. This kind of language is used throughout the Bible such as the census going throughout the world in Jesus's time. The same is used when it speaks of all of Judea coming to see John the Baptist.
Second, I do not see the scientific evidence indicating that the whole world was flooded. I...
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LostSheep
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Posted: April 8th 2007
@ 01:52 AM
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Hello all,
I stumbled upon this web page which has some very intriguing Bible verses supporting YEC:
http://www.creationmoments.net/news/common.php
An excerpt:
And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Genesis 1:31-2:1
Bible: The heavens and earth are finished.
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jimmybob479
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Posted: March 21st 2007
@ 12:47 PM
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I've been reading that article pinned up here called death by design, and for a while now had been reading an article similar to it which godandscience.org had about if there was no death before the fall. After reading these articles personally I seem to agree with them both logically and scripturally, but I have a few questions...that are somewhat related to that. Are diseases and such related to this natural, physical death, or in some way related to the actual fall? I've been reading up...
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inflyt
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Posted: March 14th 2007
@ 04:13 PM
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Perhaps the most convincing evidence to support an old earth is that gained through radiometric dating techniques. For decades this evidence has been used to squash a great spectrum of evidence used by creationists. Fairly recently, reliable evidence involving helium diffusion rates is being used to put in question radiometric dating. The following are links to articles I found useful in questioning the fundamental legitimacy of radiometric...
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A Beautiful Truth
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Posted: February 26th 2007
@ 01:44 PM
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Question for young earth creationists: Do you think you would leave your church if your church leadership would not take a stand against old earth creationism? (I do NOT mean Theistic Evolution when I say "old earth creationism"--What I mean by old earth creationism is belief that God created the heavens and the earth and that He specially created Adam and Eve--they did not evolve. And, as its name implies, that the days in Genesis were not 24 hours.)
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jimmybob479
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Posted: January 21st 2007
@ 10:50 AM
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I've always had some problem in my mind understanding how we, as humans, could have been initially created immortal. Eventually a tree would fall on us or the earth overflow or something. Some time ago I heard more scientifically/Biblically developed standpoints on this, (one from Richard Deem from godandscience.org). On my basic Christian upbringing I've always heard that Adam was created immortal, like I said up to point of reading another's argument I thought it was a general consensus. Am I...
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Tobias Reiper
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Posted: January 18th 2007
@ 08:15 PM
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or is water eternal? One thing that's always bothered me about the Genesis account is that everything is mentioned as being specifically created (the light, plants, etc.), except for the land and water.
If I read correctly the first act of Creation was the creation of the Heavens, but before that Genesis says that the Spirit of God moved upon the waters. There's really no reference to the creation of land, just that it was brought out of the waters.
I never could reconcile this with the...
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Theologic
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Posted: January 15th 2007
@ 03:08 AM
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FRAMING
As a bit of background, a common way of finding out if something is true is to start off with a set of assumptions then derive a system around these set of assumptions to see if any problems happen.
This may be a bit confusing at first so it will be helpful to give a real world example: Riemannian geometry.
If you remember your grade school geometry, which is from Euclid, parallel lines do not converge. Now, somebody came in and said, "no, there are no parallel lines."
Now, on...
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serapha
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Posted: May 7th 2006
@ 11:47 PM
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http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=674042006
Speaking of what may not be a good thing... :ahem:
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HeavenGates
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Posted: May 5th 2006
@ 09:00 AM
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Hi! I just wanted to share a website that I stumbled upon.
www.drdino.com
Check out the downloads section and watch those seminars on the age of the Earth, dinosaurs and lies in school textbooks (really liked this one). The videos are not complete, I think you have to order them.
HeavenGates
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Child_Of_Wisdom
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Posted: March 19th 2006
@ 10:10 PM
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Do you believe there was destruction in heaven such a supernovae and meteor craters before the fall of man? Are such destructive events reconcilable with a creation that God called very good? If you believe supernovae happened after the fall did they take place naturally, because a change in nature or because God intervened?
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jimmybob479
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Posted: March 3rd 2006
@ 09:18 PM
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I saw a magazine that had this title - I never read it since I was taking a test but I googled that and came up with a site that reminded me of something I wanted to post about a long time ago. The argument usually goes as follows: If God is intelligent, why are there so many extinct species? For a more precise quote of the typical thing I've heard, here is a direct quote from an article published:
"The fossil record shows that 23 different elephantlike species, including woolly mammoths, have...
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Jason Gastrich
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Posted: December 25th 2005
@ 02:18 AM
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I'm a YEC and I believe the scriptures teach us the Earth was created in 6 literal days. I also believe that they teach that the Earth is young (e.g. less than 12,000 years old). I'm looking to debate an OEC that believes the scriptures teach that the Earth is old.
Now, science is a different issue. I'm not as interested in discussing what Christian science or even current, secular science says about the age of the Earth; although I could. I'm primarily interested in what the scriptures say...
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PrometheusX303
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Posted: December 23rd 2005
@ 08:50 PM
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Your help is needed editing CreationWiki
"Contributing editors must believe the universe and life on earth were created by God. We encourage all creationists to get involved with the development of this valuable resource."
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learning
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Posted: September 4th 2005
@ 07:00 PM
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Hi, read this recently and it opened my eyes. Let's just quote it and you'll see what I mean I hope.
from C.S.Lewis "The Grand Miracle" chapter 'Religion and Science'
" 'These are rather niggling points,' said my friend. 'You see, the real objections goes far deeper. The whole picture of the universe which science has given us makes it such rot to believe that the power at the back of it all could be interested in us tiny little creatures crawling about on an unimportant planet! It was all...
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jdrbts
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Posted: June 19th 2005
@ 04:13 PM
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I would be interested to read the evidence others see for the existence of God: evidence of design.
I begin with where we are: earth.
We have gravity, to keep us on the surface of the earth.
The earth and sun are in a delicate balance. The earth is neither too close to nor too far from the sun. If too close, it would be too hot, and life would be impossible. If too far, it would be too cold, and life, again, would be impossible.
The earth rotates on its axis, so that we have (weather...
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A Beautiful Truth
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Posted: April 6th 2005
@ 02:50 AM
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A short while back, I mentioned that a member at my church has been causing trouble because of my husband and my belief in an old earth. He went so far as to send out a letter saying my husband and I taught false doctrine because of our belief in an old earth.
He said our belief in millions of years of animal life and death before the fall was a charge against God's character.
This has led to some of my friends questioning me about this. His argument is full of emotion and lots of "My God...
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jdrbts
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Posted: February 27th 2005
@ 08:09 PM
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What I seek in attempting to resolve the matter of the age of the earth is security in faith, or as much so as is possible. Security is for me only possible if the Bible is factual. If it is factual, then I can have security in faith, and security in interacting with others when speaking about the Bible: a measure of security is especially important when speaking with intelligent, scientifically oriented persons who, given the impressive achievements of science, have the right to examine -...
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wels member
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Posted: February 15th 2005
@ 11:49 PM
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It seems that the debates here. mostly Are on what God has already said.
I find it hard to be able to join in since My church concider these closed topics.
meaning they have been already decided by what God in His scripture has said.
I have noticed on protestant and roman catholic sites that their are debates on scripture.So protestants and Catholics must look at scripture differently than we do. they must see these things as open for debate.
I have never seen debates let alone voting on...
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Jack777
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Posted: February 13th 2005
@ 05:58 PM
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The Bible Codes are Important to Creation, Cosmogony and Cosmology as well as Eschatology
The Revelation of Jesus Christ to John the Apostle was given to Jesus by the Father and delivered to John by a Holy Angel. The Beginning, the very first of the Bible is the statement that God created the Universe. The first sentence in the Bible is key to the rest of the Bible. There is a great deal of direction to understanding the rest of Scripture in Genesis 1:1. It is the first sentence in the...
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Jack777
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Posted: February 12th 2005
@ 03:39 PM
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Creation
"Hilary and Augustine, almost the two greatest lights of the church, hold that the world was created instantaneously and all at the same time, not successively in the course of six days." 1
Martin Luther
The Reformers edited the thoughts of Luther that he expressed in these lectures that were written down and scholars are not sure which of the things Luther lectured about have been left in tact. In any event this statement comes down to us, reflective of an accepted opinion by a...
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ChristianTrader
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Posted: February 9th 2005
@ 07:48 PM
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I found a wonderful article that I just had to share.
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/7755/young_davis_a_3.html
It stands well on its own but to make sure that no one thinks that I am trying to hide anything:
Here are links to the two part article that the above link was in response to:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/7755/young_davis_a_1.html
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/7755/young_davis_a_2.html
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The Laughing Man
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Posted: February 8th 2005
@ 01:37 PM
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I do believe that God created the universe in six literal, 24-hour days and rested on the seventh. I do believe in the special Creation of mankind by God on the sixth day. I do believe that Adam was the first man and was created from from dust by God. I do believe that Eve was the first woman and was created from Adam's rib. I do believe that mankind was created perfect and sinless, but the Fall - when Adam and Eve chose to rebel against God's commands - resulted in mankind's separation...
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A Beautiful Truth
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Posted: January 25th 2005
@ 05:31 PM
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The following was orginally posted by Sinai in a past thread http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15799
Sinai, I'd like to ask a few questions. I need to start with this question and then I'll ask the others. Do you believe that all mankind are descended from this Adam who was transformed with a spirit?
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