 |
Read Me: Topics and Guidelines Apologetics 301
February 7th 2007
Replies: x
| Views: 1,741
|
|
Thread
|
Thread Starter
|
Last Post
|
Rating
|
|
Kelp
|
Posted: November 17th 2009
@ 01:54 AM
|
|
A Gym debate thread is opened to debate the following issue:
The historical evidence merits the conclusion that Jesus rose from the dead.
Kabane52 will be defending the affirmative and tehknologick will be defending the negative. This debate will begin as soon as Kabane makes his first post. The debate will last five rounds minimum.
This debate is taking place here, and this thread is opened for the commentary on the debate. The debate participants may not participate in this thread until...
|
|
|
Kelp
|
Posted: November 13th 2009
@ 06:44 PM
|
|
A Gym debate thread is opened to debate the following issue:
There is good evidence for the Resurrection.
mig_killer2 will be defending the affirmative and Tehknologik will be defending the negative. This debate will begin as soon as mig_killer2 makes his first post. The debate will last no more than 3 rounds.
This debate is taking place here, and this thread is opened for the commentary on the debate. The debate participants may not participate in this thread until their debate is concluded.
|
|
|
Kelp
|
Posted: November 10th 2009
@ 05:33 PM
|
|
A Gym debate thread is opened to debate the following issue:
There is enough evidence to justify belief in the Christian God.
Out-Of-Names will be defending the affirmative and Anon will be defending the negative. This debate will begin as soon as Anon makes his first post. The debate will last 5 rounds.
This debate is taking place here, and this thread is opened for the commentary on the debate. The debate participants may not participate in this thread until their debate is concluded.
|
|
|
dizzle
|
Posted: August 20th 2009
@ 02:22 PM
|
|
Let's post some of the best apologetics links here.
First on my list... Tekton Apologetics Ministries
Massive site with articles on alleged Biblical contradictions and refuting sceptical charges against the Bible. Other article concern misc Christian doctrines such as eschatology (he advocates orthodox preterism), baptism, soteriology, etc.
|
|
|
Kelp
|
Posted: June 10th 2009
@ 04:27 PM
|
|
A Gym debate thread is opened to debate the following issue:
The is not Sufficient Evidence to Justify Belief in the Resurrection of Jesus.
robtul12 will be defending the affirmative and Kabane52 will be defending the negative. This debate will begin as soon as robtul makes his first post. The debate will last five rounds minimum.
This debate is taking place here, and this thread is opened for the commentary on the debate. The debate participants may not participate in this thread until...
|
|
|
Kelp
|
Posted: May 17th 2009
@ 06:11 PM
|
|
A Gym debate thread is opened to debate the following issue:
Jesus Really Existed in History.
Kabane52 will be defending the affirmative and HELLBOY will be defending the negative. This debate will begin as soon as Kabane makes his first post. The debate will last 5 rounds.
This debate is taking place here, and this thread is opened for the commentary on the debate. The debate participants may not participate in this thread until their debate is concluded.
|
|
|
Dr. Jack Bauer
|
Posted: April 25th 2007
@ 11:10 AM
|
|
Hi folks
This is my first post in Apologetics 301 as a moderator, so I thought I'd say a few things to introduce myself to the forum. The other mods are also welcome to follow suit in this thread, since it hasn't been done before.
I have posted very little in this forum at Tweb in the past, largely due to frustration. What I have tended to see is people, some of whom have degrees in various subjects, like science, or perhaps engineering - or women's studies, but who post as though they had...
|
| |
|
|
Anon
|
Posted: Today
@ 02:15 AM
|
|
I know this is so off-the-wall that it sounds like a trollquestion, but I'm actually dead serious about this. Are there any cases like this? What are such folk called?
|
|
|
Seasanctuary
|
Posted: Today
@ 02:03 AM
|
|
Just finished reading as much of this book as I can stand. Took about an hour to give up on it.
According to the Amazon reviews, Christian No More is some kind of gem. One calls it a "perfect Christmas present." Another "an excellent tool." Sorry, but I can't agree. It's yet another skeptic preaching to skeptics book. The first specific criticism with the purpose of causing a Christian to question Christianity is asking whether Adam had a penis before God made Eve. Early on, he mentions that...
|
|
|
Jedidiah
|
Posted: Today
@ 01:32 AM
|
|
This is an old topic, but I have not seen any really new topics, but reading the Victor Stenger thread got me going on it again. According to my understanding of the Bible there can not be former Christians. Those who make such a claim are fooling themselves.
|
|
|
GakuseiDon
|
Posted: Today
@ 01:10 AM
|
|
I came across this passage by Betrand Russell:
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/russell2.htm
The Spaniards in Mexico and Peru used to baptize Indian infants and then immediately dash their brains out: by this means they secured that these infants went to Heaven.
Is this true? And do we have any idea of the numbers? I've googled for some stats, but can't find any references to this event, other than Russell's claim that it happened. I'm not saying it couldn't have happened btw, I'm just...
|
|
|
The Pixie
|
Posted: Yesterday
@ 11:32 PM
|
|
TheologicalDisc presented a miracle on camera on another thread:
Just to be clear, he is not saying it actually is a miracle, just that it is an example of a miracle caught on camera.
So what do people think? Is this a miracle? If you think it is, how would you know it was sent by God, and not Satan?
|
|
|
Anon
|
Posted: Yesterday
@ 10:34 PM
|
|
I have an objection to this argument that I want to put forth to be checked by those "in the know," ... that is to say, I'm putting it here :pray:
The problem with the argument is premise (1). I am going to grant that everything that begins to exist such that there exists a time interval (0,t), t>0, where the entity failed to exist has a cause. Note that this is different from Craig's definition of "begins to exist," which is essentially anything which exists for a finite time, that has not...
|
|
|
robertb
|
Posted: Yesterday
@ 08:38 PM
|
|
In another thread, Sparko posted the following. As not to derail that thread, I am starting a new one in order to discuss this issue.
The contention is that Paul believed in the resurrection of the physical body, also known as necromancy... kidding...
My contention is that, on the contrary, Paul clearly states that the body that dies is not the body that is raised.
In response to the above, my first comment would be that Sparko is usng an anachronistic understanding of a spiritual body....
|
|
|
bling
|
Posted: Yesterday
@ 07:45 PM
|
|
Why does God remain hidden?
Would it be fair if a brilliant scientist could proof logically there had to be a God from scientific evidence?
Does there always have to be some doubt to the existence of God or doubt in the promises of God?
There would have to be some benefit for humans to have faith that would help them fulfill their objective, over not needing faith, so what is the benefit:
1. We either have faith in self or we put our trust in God. Self reliance has to do with our money,...
|
|
|
jimbo
|
Posted: Yesterday
@ 12:30 PM
|
|
Hello,
On another thread I started here, starting on page three or four, Max Vel devoted numerous, extensive posts to interrogating me and attacking what he percieved to be or misinterpreted to be my moral views or values. Yesterday several other Christians joined in the fun. I have tried to answer their questions as best I can, and have repeated myself numerous times for the benefit of Max Vel, who asks me essentially the same question over and over again. I wouldn't really call this much of...
|
|
|
COPLAND 3
|
Posted: Yesterday
@ 12:00 PM
|
|
Here are answers to a list given by Jim Meritt http://litteralchristianlibrary.wetpaint.com/page/Answers+to+the+so-called+%22Bible+contradictions%22
Hi Copland. Here at Theologyweb, members shall not argue by weblink alone, but by every word that they themselves present in their posts. Feel free to draw arguments from other sources and provide a link for further reading if you don't intend to discuss it further, but you can't just post a link, you've got to express your ideas in the thread...
|
|
|
CTD___
|
Posted: Yesterday
@ 05:53 AM
|
|
One frequently encounters one form or another of the question "Could God make an object/rock/etc so large/heavy/etc that He Himself wouldn't be able to move/destroy it." My response (and all the reasoning here is my own, although it's likely others have figured it out on their own) is "Yes. In fact He has already done so."
That's the short answer, but it isn't very instructional. So for those who have patience, I provide the long answer. There is a medium answer, but it overlooks several...
|
|
|
FormerFundy
|
Posted: Yesterday
@ 05:40 AM
|
|
Paul says the gospel includes three elements. The death, the burial and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. (1 Cor. 15:4-“that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures”). For the past 25 posts on my blog (http://formerfundy.blogspot.com), I have been discussing the Evangelical view of what it means that “Christ died for our sins”. Today I want to move on to the burial of Jesus which Paul says is...
|
|
|
franktalk
|
Posted: Yesterday
@ 03:21 AM
|
|
I have placed many posts on these boards and written some very unkind things regarding the ideas of man. I thought I would describe why I cast doubt on some of the widely accepted ideas that rule our secular society. Hopefully this will lead to a discussion of what is truth but these boards have a mind of their own sometimes.
Let me start by describing a pile of artifacts found at a dig. But before that let us go back in time with our time machine and see how the artifacts actually were...
|
|
|
MooseOnTheLoose
|
Posted: November 20th 2009
@ 10:24 PM
|
|
After all, they're just a bunch of talking apes.
|
|
|
robertb
|
Posted: November 20th 2009
@ 10:23 AM
|
|
Some of the discusions on the Empty Tomb thread have left me with a question.
What is the pervailing understanding, among Christians, with regards to going to Heaven?
Is this something that happens to people immediately after death?
Do people actually go to Heaven when they die?
|
|
|
FormerFundy
|
Posted: November 20th 2009
@ 09:33 AM
|
|
Why do people debate the existence of God? Because whether or not God exists is not known. We do not debate things that we know. For example, no one debates whether or not cell phones exist. No one debates whether or not the male and female genders in mammals exist. We know these things.
So when it comes to the existence of God, it is my opinion, that no one knows. Some people believe that a God exists and others do not believe. Just like some people believe that extra-terrestrials have...
|
|
|
TheologicalDisc
|
Posted: November 20th 2009
@ 04:18 AM
|
|
In this thread, Yo lunch has been showing us 'contradictions' in the bible. Myself and various others have shown yo lunch has been taking these out of context. Yo lunch response to this is as follows:
Well now, enter the barer of textbook BS! I've heard all of that "out of context" stuff before and I STILL conclude that the contradictions REMAIN even when you quote the rest of the texts!
So, according to yo lunch, even when it was shown that he has taken scripture out of context, he still...
|
|
|
bling
|
Posted: November 19th 2009
@ 11:59 PM
|
|
Penal Substitution comes up in talking with philosophers, agnostics, atheists and Muslims, but is rarely discussed in sermons. I could use some help developing my ideas.
What is at issue?
1. Is there some overriding “Law” that would prevent God from forgiving sins without the shedding of blood?
2. There are benefits to punishment of the wicked: Punishment is part of discipline and has lots of benefits that God would be fully aware of:
a. Deterrent to crime
b. Measures the offence (the greater...
|
|
|
FormerFundy
|
Posted: November 19th 2009
@ 07:00 PM
|
|
Word to mods: If JPH is agreeable, could we move this to Tektonics?
Glenn Miller is an IT business executive with a Th.M. in Theology who has a website, called The Christian Think Tank, which is hailed by many internet apologists. http://www.christian-thinktank.com/webbio.html He has produced arguably the most complete attempt to answer the objection that PST is not legal or just. The full article can be found here: http://www.christian-thinktank.com/inmyplace.html
Glenn acknowledges that...
|
|
|
nickcopernicus
|
Posted: November 19th 2009
@ 12:43 PM
|
|
Well,
I was supposed to take an extended vacation from Theologyweb...but something I read in recent threads and I alluded to a few weeks ago has been nagging at me. Hopefully we'll be able to resolve it here.
Anyway, I maintain that there are no sound, deductive arguments (that have been presented yet) that:
necessitates the existence of a good god and exclude the existence of a neutral or evil god.
demonstrates that the cause (assuming there was one) of the universe was sentient.
...
|
|
|
a_Mister_Smith
|
Posted: November 19th 2009
@ 12:13 PM
|
|
If someone is holding a gun to my head and demands my wallet, I will probably give them my wallet.
I feel like God is holding a gun to our heads and demanding our allegiance or off to the lake of fire we go.
I also notice that God demands by commandment, our love also. How do you fake something like that, especially with an omniscient God?
Mr Smith
|
|
|
Jaecp
|
Posted: November 19th 2009
@ 03:49 AM
|
|
This thread is for anything. Really. When I say "A Frank and Open Discussion" I mean, quite simply, that. Atheist, Theist, and anyone in-between are welcome to discuss, well, anything (well, anything related to apologetics in some fashion, we are in that forum) in a, hopefully, civil manner.
The principal question that I want to ask, what is the value of civility? In this discussion often times we clash, we come argue, yet many times I see people resort to veiled, or not so veiled...
|
|
|
Kabane52
|
Posted: November 18th 2009
@ 08:39 PM
|
|
I'm becoming quite interested in this subject as of late. What are people's recommendations for books defending the historicity of the Exodus?
|
|
|
WoundedEgo
|
Posted: November 17th 2009
@ 10:19 PM
|
|
Continued from a discussion in Ecclessiology:
>>>Christ will indeed come in judgment upon those who don't believe. But that's not the sense in which he takes away the sins of believers.
The verse in question refers to "the sin of the world," and in the 4th gospel (and the epistles of John), the "world" is "the lost community," not "believers."
Note how the lamb takes away sin from the land:
Re 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that...
|
|
|
Levy
|
Posted: November 17th 2009
@ 03:03 PM
|
|
Hey guys, I'm doing a paper on the evidence for the resurrection of Christ out at University in my Apologetics class. I find that the argument for Gabriel's tablet really undermines N.T. Wrights argument in The Resurrection of the Son of God.
Is there any updated evidence against this tablet that anyone has access to? This would be greatly appreciated if so.
|
|
|
Metacrock
|
Posted: November 16th 2009
@ 06:44 PM
|
|
The atheists problems with necessity and contingency are just ludicrous. To me equating God's necessity with an unproved idea, or demanding prof that the universe is continent it just idiotic. totally idiotic. it's like saying "prove that tables are things to put things on."
they also confuse a prori with circular reasoning.
when they go "you are defining God into existence" then are just confusing the understanding of a prori reasoning with circular reasoning.
That would be making the...
|
|
|
FormerFundy
|
Posted: November 16th 2009
@ 09:12 AM
|
|
"Trillions and trillions of prayers every day asking and begging and pleading for favors. 'Do this' 'Gimme that' 'I want a new car' 'I want a better job'. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday. And I say fine, pray for anything you want. Pray for anything. But...what about the divine plan? Remember that? The divine plan. Long time ago god made a divine plan. Gave it a lot of thought. Decided it was a good plan. Put it into practice. And for billion and billions of years the divine plan...
|
|
|
robertb
|
Posted: November 15th 2009
@ 11:02 PM
|
|
On various other threads, there has been discussion of various concepts that may be considered central to Christian theology.
I would now like to try to start pulling some things together.This is part of the reconstruction of a Macrionite work known as the Antithesis. This reconstruction is mostly based on recovered fragments found in Tertullian's five books Against Marcion.
This particular version comes from the earlychristianwritings.com website.
I would first like to discuss how...
|
|
|
FormerFundy
|
Posted: November 15th 2009
@ 03:39 PM
|
|
Yesterday, I went with my widowed Mother to her Southern Baptist Church. It is a rapidly growing church in a small town. They are just about ready to move into their new building which seats 450 people (the whole town has a population of 529).
Several things struck me about the service yesterday:
1) The God they believe in has a very large ego. It seems that he really enjoys being told over and over and over again how great he is, how wonderful he is, how loving and gracious he is, how...
|
|
|
Shadow Phoenix
|
Posted: November 14th 2009
@ 10:52 PM
|
|
Gerry. You've started a number of threads here and you've kept using the same idea. I've questioned you on it a number of times so now I'm starting my own thread.
You keep saying the core concept of God among Christians is "maker of everything."
Properly understood, I would not have a problem with this, but I do not think I would say this is my core concept of God and I don't think many Christians would either. I have these questions for you and I'd really like you to answer them.
Now you...
|
|
|
Pitchforkpat
|
Posted: November 14th 2009
@ 01:54 AM
|
|
There seems to be quite a lot of disagreement and confusion among Christians surrounding this topic and its implications. Jesus said he would be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights. I’m really curious about where he was and what he did during this time. Now I know the amount of time is disputed but I have no particular interest in that. I’m more interested in where he was and what he did.
Here are some questions one might consider:
1. Did he go to hell as Catholics...
|
|
|
FormerFundy
|
Posted: November 14th 2009
@ 01:12 AM
|
|
Just came across this video today. I think its brilliant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gnQz32c5EA
Sarcasm and humor may be more effective than serious debate.
|
|
|
mattbballman
|
Posted: November 13th 2009
@ 11:49 PM
|
|
I know someone has said this before.
But what is the best way to say this? The question is this:
If God can do everything, why can't God learn? Because God knows everything, He can't learn anything. But if He can't learn anything, He can't do everything. But if He can't do everything, then God isn't omnipotent.
Do you see what's sort of being said here? It's almost like God's perfection keeps Him from performing certain acts, which looks like He's not all-powerful.
It's the same with...
|
|
|
WoundedEgo
|
Posted: November 13th 2009
@ 08:23 PM
|
|
This is a continuation of a discussion elsewhere...
I say, "No."
For example, let's look at Peter's testimony:
http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=1Pe&chapter=1&verse=3
1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
Note that, despite following Jesus instantly, Peter (along with the other disciples) was "slow of heart to believe":
|
|
|
Metacrock
|
Posted: November 13th 2009
@ 03:57 PM
|
|
We theists have to start getting tough with these guys. This garbage has gone on long enough. Their little games are getting really sick. They are a self deluded bunch of scam artists who are themselves brain washed by other who pulled the scam on them. I don't mean just having problems believing is a scam. There are clearly well meaning people who just don't see it, but when they get together in groups on the net and start frequenting the same websites all the time they pick up bad...
|
|
|
Griggsy
|
Posted: November 13th 2009
@ 03:43 AM
|
|
We naturalists find morality by discerning what is good or bad for humans , other animals and the enviornment . That is objective enough and intersubjective . Bentham was right in talking about pleasure- pain in this regard. Also our morality is provisional just as is science. We do not rely on morality that ignoramuses composed: ethcnic cleansing , adeluge to wipe out people, the Atonement and hell and acceptance of slavery and the subjugation of women. We are not obsessed with what...
|
|
|
TheologicalDisc
|
Posted: November 12th 2009
@ 02:59 PM
|
|
Please take into account that for the sake of argument we are assuming that God has done these things, so any question along the lines of Can we see or test it? or how do we know God has done these things?' is irrelevant to the point.
1. What qualifies as a miracle?
Is God healing a cancer patient a miracle or not?
Is God curing someones drug addiction a miracle or not?
Or for it to be qualified as a miracles does it need to be more extraordinary and remarkable and spectacular...
|
|
|
Pai Geacademe
|
Posted: November 12th 2009
@ 12:57 PM
|
|
When Christians say that God confirms His existence after conversion, I wonder what they're talking about. When I follow up with questions, they speak of powerful emotions and feelings that prove to them God must be real and communicating information to them. Puzzlingly, some say it's completely divorced from feeling and emotion. This makes no sense to me. If you've been spoken to by the indubitable voice of God, you better feel something. This is coveted knowledge if true, the most important...
|
|
|
element771
|
Posted: November 12th 2009
@ 06:56 AM
|
|
I decided to split our conversation from the thread regarding Death.
If this is a waste of time, I apologize. But it seemed like our exchanges, were not settled.
This can also serve as a place for others to weigh in the thought of an eternal universe, whether new discovery has supported this concept, and the basis of that claim.
I will start....
HB,
|
|
|
Kelp
|
Posted: November 10th 2009
@ 06:43 PM
|
|
A Gym debate thread is opened to debate the following issue:
God is not necessary for objective morality as is proven by history.
ApologiaPhoenix will be defending the negative and mpb1 will be defending the affirmative. This debate will begin as soon as ApologiaPhoenix makes his first post. The debate will last 5 rounds.
This debate is taking place here, and this thread is opened for the commentary on the debate. The debate participants may not participate in this thread until their debate...
|
|
|
WoundedEgo
|
Posted: November 10th 2009
@ 12:13 AM
|
|
>>>Jesus' sacrificial death is indeed the keystone of God's program of removing all sin from the world.
That is the oft repeated mantra of Protestants, but where do the scriptures say that?
>>>The program is not complete at the present time, of course. God is patiently withholding his final judgment until the elect are gathered.
Might I ask you to refrain from merely asserting your religious tradition and show what you assert from scripture?
>>>I assume that you're talking about John the...
|
|
|
aspirnietzche
|
Posted: November 9th 2009
@ 10:07 AM
|
|
ever wish we could go back to a simpler time?
"When a slaveowner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished.
But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment, for the slave is the owner's property." Exodus 21.20-21
"Slaves, accept the authority of your masters with all deference, not only those who are kind and gentle but also those who are harsh." 1 Peter 2.18
"Wives in the same way, accept the athority of your...
|
|
|
Metacrock
|
Posted: November 9th 2009
@ 09:45 AM
|
|
I argue that since eternal being can't be contingent it must be necessary. Many atheists tell me this is utterly illogical, but they do on assuming (I think) that there is some third choice or that contingency is just arbitrary.
This is actaully quote logical given the assumptions that I make:
(1) Necessity = That which cannot fail or cease to exist.
(2) Necessity = that which can fail or cease to exist.
(3) The other type of necessity is dependence for existence upon something prior or...
|
|
|
XD001
|
Posted: November 8th 2009
@ 07:19 PM
|
|
Why is the Ethical Decalogue used as the official Ten Commandments, when only the Ritual Decalogue is directly referred to as the Ten Commandments? I got into a debate with a friend about this, and I find it quite interesting. For those unfamiliar with this issue, see here for an introduction with the relevant verses. I'll put it like this: why is the Ethical Decalogue referred to as the Ten Commandments and why is there a discrepancy between Exodus 34 and Deuteronomy 5 over the content of the...
|
|
|
spl_cadet
|
Posted: November 8th 2009
@ 01:22 AM
|
|
Italian woman healed in 1952 has healing confirmed as miracle
|
|
|
Atheist Bulldog
|
Posted: November 7th 2009
@ 03:12 PM
|
|
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2224553,00.html
This is what Christianity causes. it causes which hunts. Christians kill children and babies. it poisons them and tortures them all the time.
If this is the wrong plan to put this then I don't care. I cant find my way around this place.
|
|
|
Atheist Bulldog
|
Posted: November 7th 2009
@ 02:58 PM
|
|
I Sa 17:39 and the verses back has Saul and David speaking before the battle, but 17:55-58 has Saul not knowing David and wondering whose son he is. Can't have it both ways!
SO whats the answer?>
I should call myself CONTRADICTION MAN, NOT BULLDOG! lol
|
|
|
Griggsy
|
Posted: November 6th 2009
@ 10:50 PM
|
|
Augustine argues that we are restless unless we are in the bosom of God. Paul Tillich and preachers so think, There is no evidence for this argument for God; they rely on anxieties which therapy can overcome. This is the argument form angst.
The argument from pareidolia underlies other arguments. It is the mere feeling to ascribe a super mind behing Existence. That is a mere projection of mind when there is no reason to see that mind there . It is akin to seeing Yeshu in a tortilla....
|
|
|
headheart
|
Posted: November 6th 2009
@ 06:11 AM
|
|
If I were asked in a History exam question to describe the character of Adolph Hitler, I would need to read all pertinent information to be able to assemble a character sketch of Herr Hitler.
However, if I was asked to surrender the same character sketch of Adolph Hitler drawing from one particular sourse, then it would be expected that I should do so and not deviate or I would be certain to lose valuable points in my examination. The same essential rule applies in this thread.
What sort of...
|
|
|
Taran Wanderer
|
Posted: November 6th 2009
@ 04:22 AM
|
|
Timothy Larsen has written an article in the WSJ about secular intellectuals who have converted to Christianity.
Just such a conversion has happened to A.N. Wilson, the 58-year-old British biographer, novelist and man of letters. He was once an observant Anglican and, later, a Roman Catholic, but in the 1980s he lost his faith and began skewering the supposed delusions of the faithful. His antifaith stance was expressed in books such as "God's Funeral" (1999) and "Jesus: A Life" (1992). A few...
|
