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Are the cosmological models for the origins of our universe subject to falsification?

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  • Are the cosmological models for the origins of our universe subject to falsification?

    the subject of this thread concerns the falsifiability of cosmological models for the origins of our universe and all possible universes. This does not propose that all possible cosmological models are falsifiable, but that the scientific methods of falsification are applied by scientists are used to evaluate and test the cosmological models as a part of mainstream physics and cosmology. Some models have failed by this methodology, some have been found wanting and need revision, others are still evolving as more knowledge concerning the nature of our physical existence.

    Kbertsche considers cosmological models of the origins of universes before the Big Ban Cosmology as speculative metaphysics, super natural speculation, and not falsifiable by scientific methods.

    Kbertsche also challenged what I believe with this problematic statement:

    Originally posted by Kbertsche
    You continually misrepresent fringe metaphysical theories as mainstream cosmology. They aren't. It doesn't matter how often you repeat falsehoods; they remain falsehoods. Perhaps you think you can fool the non-scientists here, but it won't work on me (or on other scientists). My background is in experimental physics; this is why I emphasize the Big Bang (which is testable and falsifiable) as opposed to the speculative, untestable, unfalsifiable, metaphysical theories which you prefer.
    Kbertsche needs to define what he considers 'fringe' cosmological models. Based on his posts, he considers all cosmological models that deal with the origins of universes before the Big Bang as 'fringe,' speculative, and supernatural, except for the model of the actual expansion of the singularity to form our present universe. I have given my preference for the cosmological model that describes the collapse of black holes to form the singularity, and I seriously question the 'String Theory' model. I do consider many if not most of the cosmological models as part of mainstream cosmology and physics, and subject to the falsification methods of science.


    Kbertsche made the following false statement that he claims cosmological theories (models) of the origins of universes are not cosmological models. This is false be definition of how physicists and cosmologists consider cosmological models.

    Originally posted by Kbertsche
    (Note that a "cosmological model" is not the same a "theory of the origins of universes". Cosmological models primarily explain how the universe evolved since its beginning, not how it actually began in the first place.)
    Last edited by shunyadragon; 08-28-2016, 02:01 PM.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  • #2
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Kbertsche considers cosmological models of the origins of universes before the Big Ban Cosmology as speculative metaphysics, super natural speculation, and not falsifiable by scientific methods.
    I claim that theories which are not testable or falsifiable are not science. I said that, so far as I know, theories about things "before" the Big Bang are untestable and unfalsifiable, thus are speculative metaphysics rather than science. This is especially true of theories of origins of universeS (plural); any concept of multiple universes is untestable and unfalsifiable.

    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Kbertsche needs to define what he considers 'fringe' cosmological models.
    Those which are not testable or falsifiable. These are metaphysics, not science.

    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Based on his posts, he considers all cosmological models that deal with the origins of universes before the Big Bang as 'fringe,' speculative, and supernatural,
    Yes, because speculations about "universes before the Big Bang" are untestable and unfalsifiable.

    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    except for the model of the actual expansion of the singularity to form our present universe.
    Correct, because this IS testable and falsifiable. It does not speculate on what happened "before" the Big Bang.

    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    I have given my preference for the cosmological model that describes the collapse of black holes to form the singularity, and I seriously question the 'String Theory' model. I do consider many if not most of the cosmological models as part of mainstream cosmology and physics, and subject to the falsification methods of science.
    OK, then please explain how models of the "origins of universes" (plural!) can be tested or falsified. Please explain how the black hole collapse model can be tested or falsified.
    Last edited by Kbertsche; 08-28-2016, 06:52 PM.
    "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Kbertsche View Post
      I claim that theories which are not testable or falsifiable are not science. I said that, so far as I know, theories about things "before" the Big Bang are untestable and unfalsifiable, thus are speculative metaphysics rather than science. This is especially true of theories of origins of universeS (plural); any concept of multiple universes is untestable and unfalsifiable.


      Those which are not testable or falsifiable. These are metaphysics, not science.


      Yes, because speculations about "universes before the Big Bang" are untestable and unfalsifiable.


      Correct, because this IS testable and falsifiable. It does not speculate on what happened "before" the Big Bang.


      OK, then please explain how models of the "origins of universes" (plural!) can be tested or falsified. Please explain how the black hole collapse model can be tested or falsified.
      This clarifies your position more. You consider all cosmological models concerning what took place before the expansion of the singularity to our universe as 'fringe,' untestable, unfalsifiable, and ah . . . supernatural speculation.

      As far as how, the description of the cosmological models in the scientific journals describe how they test the models based on our current knowledge, of physics, Quantum Mechanics, cosmology of our universe, and math. I will reference specific scientific journals that describe the process of the scientific methods to test their models.

      I do consider this as controversial among and between scientists, and I would like this thread to address the different views among scientists.
      Last edited by shunyadragon; 08-28-2016, 07:08 PM.
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        This clarifies your position more. You consider all cosmological models concerning what took place before the expansion of the singularity to our universe as 'fringe,' untestable, unfalsifiable, and ah . . . supernatural speculation.
        Close, except partly backwards. I consider claims which are not testable or falsifiable to be "fringe" and speculative. The main question is whether or not the theories are testable and falsifiable.

        I don't think I have ever used the phrase "supernatural speculation". Please do not try to put words in my mouth or ascribe positions to me which I do not hold.

        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        As far as how, the description of the cosmological models in the scientific journals describe how they test the models based on our current knowledge, of physics, Quantum Mechanics, cosmology of our universe, and math. I will reference specific scientific journals that describe the process of the scientific methods to test their models.
        Better yet, please summarize in your own words how these things can be tested.

        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        I do consider this as controversial among and between scientists, and I would like this thread to address the different views among scientists.
        I don't think testability or falsifiability is particularly controversial.

        The main controversy is the "demarcation" problem: what is considered to be science and what is not? Does science require testability and falsifiability? Most scientists (especially experimental scientists) say "yes". But some theorists on the fringe of metaphysics say "no".
        "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Kbertsche View Post
          Close, except partly backwards. I consider claims which are not testable or falsifiable to be "fringe" and speculative. The main question is whether or not the theories are testable and falsifiable.

          I don't think I have ever used the phrase "supernatural speculation". Please do not try to put words in my mouth or ascribe positions to me which I do not hold.


          Better yet, please summarize in your own words how these things can be tested.


          I don't think testability or falsifiability is particularly controversial.

          The main controversy is the "demarcation" problem: what is considered to be science and what is not? Does science require testability and falsifiability? Most scientists (especially experimental scientists) say "yes". But some theorists on the fringe of metaphysics say "no".
          I'm not so sure that an hypthesis such as the multi verse should be considered unscientific due to the fact that it is unfalsifiable, the hypothesis itself is based on the science that points to it. The multi verse hypothesis unlike the god hypothesis, the latter of which could be summed up as "well, we have no idea," therefore god, is based on the science.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Kbertsche View Post
            Close, except partly backwards. I consider claims which are not testable or falsifiable to be "fringe" and speculative. The main question is whether or not the theories are testable and falsifiable.
            Your answer to the question of whether or not the cosmological models are testable is more an opinion, and not based on the fact that scientists do indeed use the scientific methods of falsification to test their models. They believe the results of their work in a postive perspective and hold that the models can possible be found wanting, discarded and revised base on their research.

            I don't think I have ever used the phrase "supernatural speculation". Please do not try to put words in my mouth or ascribe positions to me which I do not hold.
            You used "supernatural" and indeed hold the view that it is speculation.

            Better yet, please summarize in your own words how these things can be tested.
            The scientists that publish there work describe their methods better then I. I already summarized how these things can be tested.

            As far as how, the description of the cosmological models in the scientific journals describe how they test the models based on our current knowledge, of physics, Quantum Mechanics, cosmology of our universe, and math.

            I don't think testability or falsifiability is particularly controversial.
            It is as far as cosmological models, but it remains the methods of falsification are applied to cosmological models.

            The main controversy is the "demarcation" problem: what is considered to be science and what is not?
            Your neglecting the simple fact that falsification is a procedure using objective methods to test the models.

            Does science require testability and falsifiability?
            The article I cited said yes and objected to some scientists who proposed the String Theory did not require falsification. You failed to respond to this article. You will see it again and need to respond.

            Most scientists (especially experimental scientists) say "yes".
            Most scientists indeed use the procedures of falsification to test their cosmological models and believe they are successful, and some models fail the test, which is an indication that it works.

            But some theorists on the fringe of metaphysics say "no".
            Some scientists and theorists on the fringe of metaphysics indeed object to falsification.
            Last edited by shunyadragon; 08-29-2016, 06:12 AM.
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #7
              This reference describes the controversy and the progressive falsification procedures used to develop the Black Hole Theory of the origins of universes. This section describes the early history and evolution of the Black Hole Theory and the problems. Note, it describes the how the models are falsified, and describes them as theories and hypothesis of falsification.

              Source: http://www.faculty.umb.edu/gary_zabel/Courses/Parallel%20Universes/Texts/the_black_hole_origin_theory_of_the_universe_frontiers_of_s.htm



              2. THE FIRST VERSION OF THE BLACK HOLE ORIGIN THEORY OF THE UNIVERSE: [SMITH, 1990]

              The basic idea behind the Smith [1990] theory is that some black holes have two properties, sucking in matter from one maximal spacetime S1 and spewing forth the matter in a different maximal spacetime S2. Smith's [1990] reads: ". . .one and the same singularity S has the property of sucking in matter (qua black hole singularity) and spewing forth matter (qua big bang singularity). [Smith, 1990: 42].

              The big bang singularity in our spacetime is a black hole singularity in another spacetime, and this latter spacetime has a big bang singularity that is a blackhole singularity in yet a third spacetime, and so on ad infintim. This hypothesis, I argued, explains the existence, initial conditions and basic physical constants of our universe.

              The explanataion has the following structure. There is some singularity S that has the property of being the big bang singularity in our spacetime M1 and a second property of being a black hole singularity in a different spacetime M2. The singularity S in an endpoint of some timelike and null curves in M2 and the beginningpoint of the timelike and null curves in our spacetime M1. In the spacetime M2, the matter sucked into the black hole is crushed out of existence at the black hole singularity S. But in our spacetime M1, the singularity S explodes and spews forth mass-energy in an expanding spacetime. Not only the mass-energy in our spacetime begins to exist in this big bang explosion, but spacetime itself begins to itself.

              Smith's [1990] hypothesizes that the spacetime M2 contains not only the black hole that resulted in our spacetime M1, but many other black holes, say 10 billion. One billion of these ten billion black hole singularities in M2 also have the property of being a big bang singularity of another spacetime M', such that one billion spacetimes are a consequence of the black holes that belong to the spacetime M2. This provides for an inductive-statistical explanation of the initial conditions and basic laws unique to our spacetime M1. For the sake of familiarity let us adopt Hempel's theory of inductive-statistical explanations, I-S explanations, particularly as he later modified it in response to Salmon's argument [1971] that probabilities lower that 1/2 have explanatory relevance. Hempel's modified version [1976], which allows probabilities less than 1/2 into the explanans of I-S explanations, shall be called a neo I-S explanation. A neo I-S explanation explains something in the sense that it predicts it with some degree of probability. Contra Humphreys [1989] and Salmon's later theory [1984], Hempel, the early Salmon and I hold that the explanans need not cite a probabalistic cause of the explanandum. It is sufficient that the explanans lead us to predict the explanadum with some degree of probability. However, in the third, quantum gravity version of this theory, I shall provide a causal explanation of these factors. But for now, let us stay with the 1990 theory.

              © Copyright Original Source

              Last edited by shunyadragon; 08-29-2016, 06:06 AM.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Kbertsche View Post
                I claim that theories which are not testable or falsifiable are not science.
                In general, i agree with you. But i'm curious as to what you think of the original idea of the neutrino, which wasn't testable for about half a century? There's a large area of "potentially testable, but we need to work out what the tests might be" ideas on the edges of science.
                "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                  Originally posted by kbertsche
                  Close, except partly backwards. I consider claims which are not testable or falsifiable to be "fringe" and speculative. The main question is whether or not the theories are testable and falsifiable.
                  Your answer to the question of whether or not the cosmological models are testable is more an opinion, and not based on the fact that scientists do indeed use the scientific methods of falsification to test their models. They believe the results of their work in a postive perspective and hold that the models can possible be found wanting, discarded and revised base on their research.
                  No, you are not reading my words carefully. (Or maybe you are, but are intentionally twisting them into something else.). I am speaking ONLY about claims which are NOT testable or falsifiable (e.g. Collapsing black holes giving rise to new universes.)

                  Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                  Originally posted by kbertsche
                  I don't think I have ever used the phrase "supernatural speculation". Please do not try to put words in my mouth or ascribe positions to me which I do not hold.
                  You used "supernatural" and indeed hold the view that it is speculation.
                  No, I definitely do NOT hold that the "supernatural" is speculation in general. Some supernatural claims are speculative, of course, but I do not apply this to all of the supernatural world. If you think that I do, you misread me.

                  Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                  Originally posted by kbertsche
                  Better yet, please summarize in your own words how these things can be tested.
                  The scientists that publish there work describe their methods better then I. I already summarized how these things can be tested.

                  As far as how, the description of the cosmological models in the scientific journals describe how they test the models based on our current knowledge, of physics, Quantum Mechanics, cosmology of our universe, and math.
                  You are intentionally avoiding an answer to my question! I'm not asking about testability or falsifiability in general. I'm asking you to provide evidence that the specific cosmological models that you keep claiming are "scientific" (e.g. collapsing black holes forming me universes) are actually testable and falsifiable. I claim that they are not. If you disagree, please provide evidence.
                  Last edited by Kbertsche; 08-29-2016, 11:45 AM.
                  "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    I'm not so sure that an hypthesis such as the multi verse should be considered unscientific due to the fact that it is unfalsifiable, the hypothesis itself is based on the science that points to it. The multi verse hypothesis unlike the god hypothesis, the latter of which could be summed up as "well, we have no idea," therefore god, is based on the science.
                    You bring up a good point. This is a matter of debate among scientists. Experimentalists (like myself) tend to require testability and falsifiability for something to qualify as scientists. Theorists are a bit more open on their definitions.

                    Helen Quinn forges the term "scientific metaphysics" for these ideas:
                    Source: Helen Quinn


                    Applying established scientific theory to new domains can take us beyond the realm of testable science. For an idea to be outside that realm requires not just that no experiment or observation that could test it is feasible with current technology but that no phenomenon could ever be observed that could illuminate the subject. Physicists’ speculations about universes outside our own observable universe (speculations that I find both fascinating and plausible) are extensions into a realm where tests are impossible, because those other universes are, by definition, outside anything we might ever observe. Such implications from scientific knowledge are not quite at the same level as scientific knowledge in testable domains. I call such speculation scientific metaphysics, to distinguish it from much metaphysical speculation that is clearly not scientific and even contradicts known science. The speculations of scientific metaphysics are constrained and illuminated by the logic of science; they emerge from the same theories that bear on our observable universe and its history. They can lead to new ideas that inform theories of observable phenomena. Some physicists may see the term metaphysics as pejorative, but I do not intend it in that way; I merely wish to distinguish this thinking from that which can be constrained by observations.

                    © Copyright Original Source


                    Helen makes an interesting distinction. But she seems to agree that these things are speculative and are fundamentally metaphysics, not science, even though they are built on a scientific basis.
                    "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                      In general, i agree with you. But i'm curious as to what you think of the original idea of the neutrino, which wasn't testable for about half a century? There's a large area of "potentially testable, but we need to work out what the tests might be" ideas on the edges of science.
                      Though it was not testable at the time with the existing technology, the concept of the neutrino was in principle testable and falsifiable. I would call such ideas scientific, but would also view them with some degree of speculation until they are actually tested and validated.

                      (Helen Quinn's quote above touched on this.)
                      "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kbertsche View Post
                        Though it was not testable at the time with the existing technology, the concept of the neutrino was in principle testable and falsifiable. I would call such ideas scientific, but would also view them with some degree of speculation until they are actually tested and validated.

                        (Helen Quinn's quote above touched on this.)
                        Yeah, although she's mistaken in that there's a possibility that some additional universes may have interacted with ours very early in its history, and left an imprint of sorts, so not all versions of this are inherently untestable.

                        I think my point was that we don't know what technology we'll eventually be able to develop, and we don't always know the physical consequences of some ideas fully, so it can take years to determine if a test is possible. So, some ideas that seemed untestable eventually turn out to be amenable to experiment, and we can't always tell which ones in advance.

                        It's an interesting issue, and yet another case where the demarcation isn't as clear and satisfying as we'd like it to be. My personal opinion is that there can be scientific ideas (based on known physics) that aren't currently science, but can be moved into that realm by future developments. And these generally are distinguishable from non-scientific ideas. Your quote (which is a good one - hadn't heard it before) partially captures this, but not entirely.
                        "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Kbertsche View Post
                          No, you are not reading my words carefully. (Or maybe you are, but are intentionally twisting them into something else.). I am speaking ONLY about claims which are NOT testable or falsifiable (e.g. Collapsing black holes giving rise to new universes.)
                          Not misunderstanding you at all. This is the problematic claim that represents an opinion on your part and not the belifs of those scientists researching cosmological models they believe are falsifiable.


                          [
                          You are intentionally avoiding an answer to my question! I'm not asking about testability or falsifiability in general. I'm asking you to provide evidence that the specific cosmological models that you keep claiming are "scientific" (e.g. collapsing black holes forming me universes) are actually testable and falsifiable. I claim that they are not. If you disagree, please provide evidence.
                          No, I have never avoided your question. I consider this view an opinion on your part, and what the scientist believe that the cosmological models they proposing in their research are indeed falsifiable by the objective scientific methods they use in their research. It the scientists I support, and not your opinion.

                          Do you have an academic source that proposes that the Black Hole Theory of the origins of universes is not falsifiable?
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The reference is quite long, but basically deals with the evolution of the Black Hole Theory of the origin of the universes evolves progressively into a better cosmological model.demonstrating that scientists who research these models believe that the cosmological model, and describe how they are falsifiable. This reference also describes how versions #1 and #2 of the Black Hole Theory did fail the falsification process, and were defeated by falsification methods.

                            Source: http://www.faculty.umb.edu/gary_zabel/Courses/Parallel%20Universes/Texts/the_black_hole_origin_theory_of_the_universe_frontiers_of_s.htm



                            4. A THIRD AND SUCCESSFUL VERSION OF BLACK HOLE ORIGIN COSMOLOGY

                            Smith [1990] and Smolin [1997] both failed to develop succesful versions of the cosmological natural selection theory. I shall here present in barest outline form a version that I believe can be successfully developed in a detailed way.

                            Criteria for theory-formation include simplicity, explanatory power, predictive novelty, conservatiness, nonarbitrarness and symmetry, among others. I shall here make use specifically of conservatiness and symmetrry.

                            A brief and intuitive understanding of conservatiness may be obtaining by saying that a theory T1 is more conservative than a theory T2 if T1 requires less changes in our background or prior scientific beliefs than T2. For example, if theory T2 requires a change only at the periphery of our web of belief, to borrow Quine's metaphor, and T1 requires only a change at the center of our web of belief than, then T2 is more conservative than T1 and, all else being equal, we ought to believe T2 rather than T1.

                            The symmetry criterion is illustrated by the fact that if we know a situation S1 that instantiates the property F also instantiates the property G, and we know there is another situation S2 that instantiates F and that is all we know about S2 except for the fact that it must instiate either G or H, but not both, then, all else being equal, we ought to belief that situation S2 insitantiates the property G rather than the property H.

                            In our Black Hole Origin Theory of the universe, we have at the core of this theory the hypothesis that the big bang in our universe is connected to a black hole in another universe. One question we need to ask, but which Smolin does not ask, is what kind of black hole is connected to our big bang? The principles of conservativness and symmetry imply that we should postulate that it is a Kerr black hole (which is a rotating rather than non-rotating black hole).

                            The reason for this is that all observed black holes in our universe, such as Cygnus X-1, are Kerr Black holes. The other theoretical criteria, explanatory power, preditive novelty, simplicity, etc., do not counterbalance this hypothesis since nothing is gained (in respest of any these criteria of theory formation) by hypothesizing that the black hole is a Schwarschild black hole or a Reissner-Nordstrom black hole. If all else is equal regarding our knowledge of black holes, we ought to believe the black hole that is connected to our universe is a Kerr black hole.

                            Now comes the most important obstacle to the cosmological natural selection theory, the obstacle that defeated versions one and two of this theory. This is to explain the nature of the connection between the black hole and the big bang of our universe. We recall that version one failed since Johnson, Geroch, Liang and Wald demonstrated the unsuccesfulness of the b-boundary and c-boundary constructions of "singularties" as really existent points on the boundary of a spacetime, leaving version one without an existent reality, a point, that could both be the end-point of a black hole and the beginning-point of a big bang explosion. Version two failed because its postulate that time continues through a black hole into a big bang at the Planck density is inconsistent with the accepted scientific notions that linear time breaks down at the Planck density.

                            A Kerr black hole is rotating and has a singularity at r = 0. As my first attempt to develop a more satisfactory third version of the Black Hole Origin Theory, I will allow the theoretical criterion of explanatory power to override the criterion of symmetry and conservativeness, since if I postulate that the black hole connected to our big bang is not a normal Kerr black hole, i.e., the type we observe in our universe, but is instead a Kerr vacuum black hole (or, if you prefer, a Kerr white hole), then we will have a type of black hole that can lead to a big bang explosion. A vacuum black hole does not arise from a gravitation collapse If we apply the metric of a normal Kerr black hole to a Kerr vacuum black hole, we will have at r = 0 a disc singularity. The edge of this disk has an infinite curvature, and the rest of the disc is an extendible edge of spacetime. Call the spacetime in which this Kerr vaccuum black hoile exists S1. From the viewpoint of the spacetime S2 into which worldlines can be extended, the Kerr vacuum black hole singularity will be the extendible part of the disk. I hypothesize that this edge of this disk is the big bang singularity of the new spacetime S2.

                            This Kerr vacuum black hole is not to be confused with the popularly discussed Einstein-Rosen bridge that connects two pre-existing universes [Smith, 1990: 41]; such a bridge invovles two Schwarschild vacuum black hole singularities in two asympotically flat regions of a Minkowski spacetime that connect and form a transient worm-hole between the two spacetime regions. This familiar idea will not help us, since it presupposes rather than explains the existence of the two spactimes that are connected by the wormhole.

                            The Kerr vacuum black hole gives us a basis to work from, since neither [Smith, 1990] nor [Smolin, 1997] ever explained how a theory of a black hole exploding as a big bang can be mathematically described by a solution to Einstein's equation. For example, Smith [1990: 41] says the major problem with his theory is that "there is no known solution of the equations of GTR that shows a singularity of one of these sorts [i.e. a black hole singularity] to also be a singularity of the other sort [i.e. a big bang singularity]" Smith [1990] is right in only one respect; the Kerr vacuum black hole solution to the Einstein equation does not require that the disk is in fact extended into another spacetime. It implies merely that it is extendible, i.e. that it is physically or nomologically possible for it to be extended. But Smith [1990] is wrong in another respect; he thought there was no solution to the Einstein equation that allowed for the physical or nomological possibility of a singularity that had the property of being both a black hole singuality in one universe and a big bang singularity in a second universe. However, the disk is precisely such a singularity.

                            Furthermore, Smith was wrong in [1990] in asserting that all vacuum black holes (white holes) are retarded pieces of a big bang singularity. This is required of Schwarzschild vacuum black holes [Misner, Thorne and Wheeler, 1973: 842-843], but not of Kerr vacuum black holes. But note that this issue is in fact irrelevant, which is a point Smith did not grasp in [1990]. For even if all vacumm black hole singularities are retarded pieces of a big bang singularity, the big bang singularity in our universe could have the property of being a vacuum black hole that is a retarded part of the big bang singularity in another universe. There is no necessity for the big bang singularities to be gravitational collapse black hole singularities rather than vacuum black hole singularities.

                            By identifying the Kerr vacuum black holes as the class of black holes relevant to big bangs, we seem to have made the first step towards developing a third and improved theory of the Black Origin Cosmological Theory.

                            © Copyright Original Source



                            Again, I am presenting my references in support of the validity of falsification cosmological models , such as the Black Hole Theory. Can you provide an academic source that proposes that the Black Hole Theory is NOT falsifiable.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                              In general, i agree with you. But i'm curious as to what you think of the original idea of the neutrino, which wasn't testable for about half a century? There's a large area of "potentially testable, but we need to work out what the tests might be" ideas on the edges of science.
                              I would argue that there are things that are inherently not able to be tested vs those that are testable but we don't have the current technology to do so.

                              If it isn't possible to access anything outside of our universe, then the multiverse would not be testable. However, maybe we can access things outside of our universe but currently have no idea how.

                              The question remains though.... how do you distinguish between the two?

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