Wow, talk about awkward...

pronouns.jpg

Respecting people’s right to define themselves as neither male nor female is political correctness.

Tolkein- And Gandalf asked
Student- nem
Tolkein- I cant work here jack.
CS Lewis- Tell me about it I cant even read my radio broadcast.

It amazes me that people can actually propose this crap with a straight face. Ze might get zir feelings hurt.

You should probably take more care CP to make clear that this is not official Oxford university policy. It was a leaflet distributed on campus by students.

I have mixed feelings about such pronouns. I have never used 'Ze' etc in my life toward anyone and wouldn't know how to use it properly. But I fairly consistently use they/them/their to refer to people of unknown gender and prefer it to saying or writing "his/her".

I am aware that many languages have neutral genders and hence neutral pronouns, and it makes sense to attempt to fill that gap in the English language (which I do with they/them/their). English itself has changed over the centuries with regard to its pronouns, with the phasing out of the singular second person pronouns thee/thou/thy and their replacement with the plural second person pronouns you/you/yours, which now makes things awkward because you often have to clarify singular from plural by saying "you all" or "y'all" or somesuch for the plural. So I think the natural choice for the further evolution of the language is to take the neutral 3rd person plural pronouns (they/them/their) and apply them to the singular case, as happened with you/you/yours a century or so ago.

But with all language changes, it's simply a matter of what wins out at the end of the day. Language changes all the time, as people change how they speak. I'm sure a grammarian like Tolkien - who even invented his own languages (I note that in Elvish "The 3rd person plural had no gender distinction") - would be absolutely fascinated by such changes. My friends who have studied linguistics are equally fascinated by the continuing evolution of our language and such changes to our pronouns.

I don't give a flyin' flip WHERE it came from. And, you should probably take more care, SL, in saying it's a leaflet distributed by "students" - it's actually from the University's Student Union. But that doesn't make it any less dumb, as it seems the current trend on university campuses is that the inmates are in charge of the asylum.

"Ze" is absolutely ludicrous, and sounds downright stupid. It sounds like somebody's doing a really bad job of a foreign accent.

From the Independent....

Is this 'ze' going to be for everybody?. Because I personally will find it offensive to be labelled a 'ze' - though I realize in modern liberal society the only identities that count are gay and transexual. And referring to someone like Jane Austen in a lecture as 'ze' is laughably stupid. Really I would like to see both Oxford and Cambridge bite the dirt just like the UK Labour Party is busy doing because they have all left their oringinal purpose. In the case of the Labour Party from being for any and all poor people to actively discriminating against certain sections of the poor. In the case of Oxford and Cambridge small minded bigotry and over-the-top political correctness of the new bourgeoisie have replaced a pursuit of knowledge.

I was reading Oxford's official website with their policies on gay, transgender, etc.... they would have you be referred to as "mx" (instead of Mr., Mrs, Ms, etc)



I shall hereafter refer to Starlight as "Mux Starlight".


(not really)

Eh? Most people would have said that UK Labour under Blair abandoned this original purpose of helping the poor and embraced neoliberalism, and that Corbyn is returning the party to its original purpose and purging the right-wing neoliberals. What makes you say they're against sections of the poor???

English has long had a neutral pronoun - it. Use it.

I had a crusty old State Police captain who, way back in the day, preferred the personal pronoun "shim" -- part she and part him -- in the case of (back then) hippies who tended to.....

I would replace he and she wherever they occurred with "ze". Microsoft Find and Replace FTW!!!

So what about the people who are offended by being called "ze" instead of "he" or "she?"

If someone called me "ze" I would be offended they didn't say "he" (after I stopped laughing, that is)

Yeah, it's one thing for language to evolve naturally, quite another for that evolution to be mandated. I'm certain it's not the first time it's happened though. It's been my experience that most of the time the powers that be force people to take on new cultural norms through force or guilt trips, it's met with resistance and resentment. These things are usually better accomplished the way the mainstream media does it, by slowly adding their PC subtext into their programming, and getting the average Joe to think he came up with it. Guess when you have a captive audience of students you can be a bit more direct.