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**Sparko** · 02-13-2017, 12:09 PM

typical alarmist, authoritarian liberals. Similar to what they do with Global Warming.

I think it should be up to businesses to decide to allow smoking or not. And let peer pressure determine what they do. If people stay away from a business because they allow smoking, then they will ban smoking to keep customers. If the opposite is true, they will allow smoking. Or have smoking/nonsmoking areas.

Personally I like not having to smell smoke in a restaurant or on an airplane. But that is just my personal taste. I will avoid places that would allow smoking. If enough people felt like I did, then restaurants and planes would ban smoking. That is how it should be, instead of mandatory bans because liberals want to be authoritarian.

and just to point out the hypocrisy of it, these are the same liberals who want to legalize Marijuana.

**One Bad Pig** · 02-13-2017, 12:11 PM

I still don't want nasty tobacco smoke anywhere near me, or discarded butts scattered about because smokers are too lazy to walk 15 feet to the repository provided.

**seer** · 02-13-2017, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post

I still don't want nasty tobacco smoke anywhere near me, or discarded butts scattered about because smokers are too lazy to walk 15 feet to the repository provided.

Yes, I quote last Good Friday after 42 years of smoking. But the damage it done, I still miss it though.

**Psychic Missile** · 02-13-2017, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Sparko View Post

typical alarmist, authoritarian liberals. Similar to what they do with Global Warming.

I think it should be up to businesses to decide to allow smoking or not. And let peer pressure determine what they do. If people stay away from a business because they allow smoking, then they will ban smoking to keep customers. If the opposite is true, they will allow smoking. Or have smoking/nonsmoking areas.

Personally I like not having to smell smoke in a restaurant or on an airplane. But that is just my personal taste. I will avoid places that would allow smoking. If enough people felt like I did, then restaurants and planes would ban smoking. That is how it should be, instead of mandatory bans because liberals want to be authoritarian.

and just to point out the hypocrisy of it, these are the same liberals who want to legalize Marijuana.

Do you think that smoking or exposing others to cigarette smoke is morally wrong?

**Sparko** · 02-13-2017, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by Psychic Missile View Post

Do you think that smoking or exposing others to cigarette smoke is morally wrong?

no

**Raphael** · 02-13-2017, 02:40 PM

as my wife is allergic to cigarette smoke (walking past a smoker can shut down her sinuses for the rest of the week) I'm very much in full support of a ban of public smoking.

**guacamole** · 02-13-2017, 02:44 PM

Yeah, it sucks to my asthmar too. Used to hate going into restaurants back in the day with smoking sections.

**rogue06** · 02-13-2017, 03:07 PM

I figure that breathing in someone else's cigarette smoke cannot be good for you (especially in enclosed places like a car) but when some insisted that it was even worse than smoking the cigarette itself I started suspecting that at least some of the studies were poorly conducted.

**Mountain Man** · 02-13-2017, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by seer View Post

Up shot: "We Used Terrible Science to Justify Smoking Bans"

http://www.slate.com/articles/health...e_thought.html

I'm honestly not surprised. A lot of this kind of social engineering is based on junk science, which is unfortunate.

Not that I want to see smoking make a come back or anything, but I suppose having a "scientific" reason for wanting it banned is an easier sell than "I just find it nasty."

**mossrose** · 02-13-2017, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by Raphael View Post

as my wife is allergic to cigarette smoke (walking past a smoker can shut down her sinuses for the rest of the week) I'm very much in full support of a ban of public smoking.

Ditto for me.

**Christianbookworm** · 02-13-2017, 07:37 PM

I also tend to find it hard to breathe with air pollutants. I don't even tolerate outdoor bleach fumes.

**Starlight** · 02-13-2017, 07:51 PM

The medical condition that has always been associated with cigarette smoke for as long as I can remember is lung cancer. I don't recall ever seeing anyone claim that smoking or second-hand smoke caused heart attacks. For example, the NZ government page listing the negative health effects of smoking doesn't mention heart attacks a single time on the page. The OP claim seems pretty bogus.

I happen to have a medical condition where exposure to smoke would cause abnormally high amounts of damage to my lungs, so I am glad that NZ has pretty severe smoking restrictions (not generally allowed in/near public buildings etc) so I am not exposed to second-hand smoke - plus it smells terrible anyway.

**Raphael** · 02-13-2017, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by Starlight View Post

The medical condition that has always been associated with cigarette smoke for as long as I can remember is lung cancer. I don't recall ever seeing anyone claim that smoking or second-hand smoke caused heart attacks. For example, the NZ government page listing the negative health effects of smoking doesn't mention heart attacks a single time on the page. The OP claim seems pretty bogus.

I happen to have a medical condition where exposure to smoke would cause abnormally high amounts of damage to my lungs, so I am glad that NZ has pretty severe smoking restrictions (not generally allowed in/near public buildings etc) so I am not exposed to second-hand smoke - plus it smells terrible anyway.

You memory is faulty

Smoking can and does cause heart disease.

"Smoking is a major cause of CVD and causes one of every three deaths from CVD"
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_in...heart_disease/

https://www.health.govt.nz/system/fi...-factsheet.pdf
"Smoking is a major cause of heart disease. The two main outcomes of coronary or ischaemic heart disease are heart attack and angina.2"

Aside: my sister-in-law (my wife's sister) her in-laws both died thanks to smoking, her father-in-law through CVD and her mother-in-law through lung cancer. both died within months of each other (and her husband still smokes, and at 37 is banned from flying because he is already battling with blood clots related to smoking)

**rogue06** · 02-13-2017, 08:07 PM

Originally posted by mossrose View Post

Ditto for me.

Your wife is allergic to cigarette smoke as well?

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Second Hand Smoke Not So Bad After All!

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