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The Green New Deal was never about climate change

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  • The Green New Deal was never about climate change

    The Green New Deal was never about climate change; it's just AOC's excuse to destroy America's economy

    In Europe, you will often hear politically savvy people refer to Green Party politicians as "watermelons." The reason is that although they might be environmentalist "green" on the outside, these leftists are secretly communist red if you look beneath the surface.

    They typically resort to such subterfuge because environmentalism is more popular than Marxism. A former East German communist is bound to be unpopular, but perhaps not so much if he rehabilitates himself as a renewable energy enthusiast.

    The case of Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a Democrat from New York, is different in that she openly advertised herself as a socialist in a country with a well-grounded historical aversion to such alien ideologies. But her grand policy initiative, the $93 trillion Green New Deal, was still billed as if it were a legitimate environmentalist idea. We were supposedly trying to save the world from imminent destruction. As Ocasio-Cortez herself put it, "We're, like, the world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change."

    She would have us think, then, that this is a conversation about science. We need the Green New Deal, or else humanity is doomed. But now we know a lot more about this proposal, and it appears that that isn't what the Green New Deal is about at all.

    Her chief of staff Saikat Chakrabarti (the brains and the money behind her political operation ever since her 2018 primary victory) divulged in an unintentionally blunt comment in the Washington Post that the Green New Deal was not only not based in the science of climate change, but in fact not even designed with climate change in mind. "[I]t wasn’t originally a climate thing at all,” he is quoted as saying.

    In other words, it's not that they looked for a way to save the world, and just happened to find a way that involved full employment pledges, the retrofitting of millions of buildings, income for those unwilling to work, high-speed passenger rail, and the curtailment of plane travel and carnivorousness. That's precisely backwards. The Green New Deal came about because Chakrabarti wanted to transform the U.S. economy into something more primitive, and environmentalism struck him as the best excuse for doing so.

    Think of the Green New Deal as an updated (and we hope less lethal) version of the "Year Zero" concept. Americans will be reassigned under a new socialist order to environmentally friendly tasks. The saving of the planet is not the goal of the Green New Deal but rather the excuse for it: the common purpose around which we all unite to pursue the deindustrialized, Utopian America of tomorrow.

    And we need that Utopian socialist society because ... wait, why exactly? Because of the despotic cruelty of our tsar and the grinding poverty of his recently enslaved subjects? Because none of the peasants own any land in our impoverished feudal society?

    .....
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

  • #2
    "Climate change" isn't even about climate change. It has always been a bogeyman used for pushing leftist government policy.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      "Climate change" isn't even about climate change. It has always been a bogeyman used for pushing leftist government policy.
      Not sure about the GND and the op, but you are completely wrong with this comment MM.

      Jim
      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

      Comment


      • #4
        You're right, I'm sure the next ice age is just around the corner.
        Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
        But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
        Than a fool in the eyes of God


        From "Fools Gold" by Petra

        Comment


        • #5
          We know most politics behind man-made climate change is self-serving bullcrap, but we'll see at least from climate change scientific circles how serious they are about the facts based on how they respond (or don't) to this recent study.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
            Not sure about the GND and the op, but you are completely wrong with this comment MM.

            Jim
            It's about transfer of wealth. Hence the need for carbon credits and sending money to other nations.
            When I Survey....

            Comment


            • #7
              I should have warned in the OP that this thread is not about Climate change, and whether or not it's real, and whether or not, if it is real, it's human caused....

              It's specifically about the GND.



              and bacon
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                You're right, I'm sure the next ice age is just around the corner.
                Vague references to old ideas that where almost immediately shown to be unsupportable do not help your case MM.

                Jim
                My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  I should have warned in the OP that this thread is not about Climate change, and whether or not it's real, and whether or not, if it is real, it's human caused....

                  It's specifically about the GND.



                  and bacon
                  Ill give it my best, but how is that to be avoided since the entire subtext of the GND is that climate change is real, ongoing, and a threat to civilization?

                  Jim
                  My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                  If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                  This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    The Green New Deal was never about climate change; it's just AOC's excuse to destroy America's economy

                    In Europe, you will often hear politically savvy people refer to Green Party politicians as "watermelons." The reason is that although they might be environmentalist "green" on the outside, these leftists are secretly communist red if you look beneath the surface.

                    They typically resort to such subterfuge because environmentalism is more popular than Marxism. A former East German communist is bound to be unpopular, but perhaps not so much if he rehabilitates himself as a renewable energy enthusiast.

                    The case of Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a Democrat from New York, is different in that she openly advertised herself as a socialist in a country with a well-grounded historical aversion to such alien ideologies. But her grand policy initiative, the $93 trillion Green New Deal, was still billed as if it were a legitimate environmentalist idea. We were supposedly trying to save the world from imminent destruction. As Ocasio-Cortez herself put it, "We're, like, the world is going to end in 12 years if we don't address climate change."

                    She would have us think, then, that this is a conversation about science. We need the Green New Deal, or else humanity is doomed. But now we know a lot more about this proposal, and it appears that that isn't what the Green New Deal is about at all.

                    Her chief of staff Saikat Chakrabarti (the brains and the money behind her political operation ever since her 2018 primary victory) divulged in an unintentionally blunt comment in the Washington Post that the Green New Deal was not only not based in the science of climate change, but in fact not even designed with climate change in mind. "[I]t wasn’t originally a climate thing at all,” he is quoted as saying.

                    In other words, it's not that they looked for a way to save the world, and just happened to find a way that involved full employment pledges, the retrofitting of millions of buildings, income for those unwilling to work, high-speed passenger rail, and the curtailment of plane travel and carnivorousness. That's precisely backwards. The Green New Deal came about because Chakrabarti wanted to transform the U.S. economy into something more primitive, and environmentalism struck him as the best excuse for doing so.

                    Think of the Green New Deal as an updated (and we hope less lethal) version of the "Year Zero" concept. Americans will be reassigned under a new socialist order to environmentally friendly tasks. The saving of the planet is not the goal of the Green New Deal but rather the excuse for it: the common purpose around which we all unite to pursue the deindustrialized, Utopian America of tomorrow.

                    And we need that Utopian socialist society because ... wait, why exactly? Because of the despotic cruelty of our tsar and the grinding poverty of his recently enslaved subjects? Because none of the peasants own any land in our impoverished feudal society?

                    .....
                    So to your op, without getting into my own thoughts about what was said above, what you have quoted is an out of context misrepresentation of the comments your article is based on. To get a better context, you need to look at the actual WP article:

                    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.a98b05b2add7

                    And to complcate matters, the difference between your article and the WP article is subtle.

                    What is actually being said is that the GND is an integration of a large set of progressive ideals, of which adressing climate change is one.

                    So the distortion is the implication that climate change itself is manufactured or blown out of proportion for the sake of advancing a broader political agenda. That is not the case. Rather it is that climate change as a serious and real issue is integrated with a number of other serious issues from a progressive perspective to produce the GND.

                    Why is that difference important?

                    Because it allows us to separate the elements of the GND that we may be against fiscally or politically from whether climate change is real or whether there are legitimate reasons to support mechanisms that address climate change while being against other elements of the GND that exist to promote progressive and socialistic leanings.

                    Jim
                    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 07-13-2019, 11:27 PM.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Faber View Post
                      It's about transfer of wealth. Hence the need for carbon credits and sending money to other nations.
                      The liberals will always find a "cause" to advance their own position in the world.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Faber View Post
                        It's about transfer of wealth. Hence the need for carbon credits and sending money to other nations.
                        But if anthropogenic global warming is a real phenomenon, and curtailing CO2 emotions would have a significant impact, wouldn't cap and trade be a right approach?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                          But if anthropogenic global warming is a real phenomenon, and curtailing CO2 emotions would have a significant impact, wouldn't cap and trade be a right approach?
                          The real question is, ‘why are the biggest advocates, so unwilling to change their own lifestyle, but expect others to do it?’
                          "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                          GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                            The real question is, ‘why are the biggest advocates, so unwilling to change their own lifestyle, but expect others to do it?’
                            No, that is a diversion. The real question is given the evidence for Global warming and the human driver, why are we listening to the voices of industries that have over and over and over again shown their capacity to disregard and actively cover up the long term destructive effects on people and the environment of the mechanisms used in creating their profits.

                            Jim
                            My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                            If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                            This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                              No, that is a diversion. The real question is given the evidence for Global warming and the human driver, why are we listening to the voices of industries that have over and over and over again shown their capacity to disregard and actively cover up the long term destructive effects on people and the environment of the mechanisms used in creating their profits.

                              Jim
                              How is it a ‘diversion’ to ask why those that claim we’re all going to die if we don’t do something now, not living their lives in accordance to that belief? Do they truly believe it or do they merely use it as an ends to their own power? It’s always wise to question one’s motive who isn’t consistently following what they preach.
                              "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                              GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                              Comment

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