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The changing of history continues

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  • The changing of history continues


    The statue of slave trader Edward Colston was replaced in Bristol on Wednesday morning – with a sculpture of one of the protesters whose anger brought him down.

    The figure of Jen Reid, who was photographed standing on the plinth with her fist raised after the 17th-century merchant was toppled by Black Lives Matter demonstrators last month, was erected at dawn by a team directed by the artist Marc Quinn.

    The ambush sculpture is likely to reignite the debate over public statuary in the UK that began with the toppling of the Colston figure five weeks ago. On Wednesday morning police said they had had no complaints and it was “a matter for Bristol city council”.

    Marvin Rees, the city’s mayor, issued a statement saying that “the future of the plinth and what is installed on it must be decided by the people of Bristol”. He said the sculpture was “the work and decision of a London-based artist,” and added: “It was not requested and permission was not given for it to be installed.”

    But he stopped short of saying that the council would act to remove it.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...tter-protester


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

  • #2
    Originally posted by mossrose View Post

    The statue of slave trader Edward Colston was replaced in Bristol on Wednesday morning – with a sculpture of one of the protesters whose anger brought him down.

    The figure of Jen Reid, who was photographed standing on the plinth with her fist raised after the 17th-century merchant was toppled by Black Lives Matter demonstrators last month, was erected at dawn by a team directed by the artist Marc Quinn.

    The ambush sculpture is likely to reignite the debate over public statuary in the UK that began with the toppling of the Colston figure five weeks ago. On Wednesday morning police said they had had no complaints and it was “a matter for Bristol city council”.

    Marvin Rees, the city’s mayor, issued a statement saying that “the future of the plinth and what is installed on it must be decided by the people of Bristol”. He said the sculpture was “the work and decision of a London-based artist,” and added: “It was not requested and permission was not given for it to be installed.”

    But he stopped short of saying that the council would act to remove it.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...tter-protester
    I don't view this as 'changing history'. I view it as recognizing that slave traders and the like are not worthy of the honor associated with a statue to them in an arbitrary public venue. I remember the first time I saw a statue of Robert E. Lee. I was very young. I asked my mom, "why do they have a statue to him, he fought to keep people slaves?"

    And I'm not black. Imagine if you are a black citizen of this country or any country asking why in the world some countries would honor men that tried to keep people like you as slave. Or - as in this case - that actually engaged in the abusive, evil practice of trading men and women as slaves.
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 07-15-2020, 02:41 PM.
    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
      I don't view this as 'changing history'. I view it as recognizing that slave traders and the like are not worthy of the honor associated with a statue to them in an arbitrary public venue. I remember the first time I saw a statue of Robert E. Lee. I was very young. I asked my mom, "why do they have a statue to him, he fought to keep people slaves?"

      And I'm not black. Imagine if you are a black citizen of this country or any country asking why in the world some countries would honor men that tried to keep people like you as slave. Or - as in this case - that actually engaged in the abusive, evil practice of trading men and women as slaves.
      So it's appropriate then to have statues of anybody who may or may not have been involved in public rioting and vandalism.

      Got it.


      Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

      Comment


      • #4
        Americans and Iraqis of all different political persuasions cheered when the Saddam Hussein statue was toppled by Baghdad residents. I think that this incident shows that most people recognize the symbolic nature of statues, and that removing the statue does not erase the historical record of Saddam's atrocities.

        As I am against all statues, I do disagree with placing the BLM statue in its place.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #5
          Well it appears they know who tore down the original statue so they should arrest her and put up a statue of her behind bars.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
            Well it appears they know who tore down the original statue so they should arrest her and put up a statue of her behind bars.
            It will never happen. This will be accepted because the liberal politicians are either too stupid or too afraid to do anything about it. Otherwise they would have already arrested the history canceling mobs.


            Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't see how this changes history in any way.

              In any case, people who are offended by this statue (as opposed to just disagreeing with the change) still don't experience the kind of offense enslaved races might feel about the statue of a slave trader/owner.

              But it's a good start...
              Last edited by Whateverman; 07-15-2020, 03:41 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                So it's appropriate then to have statues of anybody who may or may not have been involved in public rioting and vandalism.

                Got it.
                I don't support this statue being taken down by a riot, and I don't support the rioters putting up a statue in its stead. It's not a good precedent, and I don't think proper lasting change can come from that.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                  I don't view this as 'changing history'. I view it as recognizing that slave traders and the like are not worthy of the honor associated with a statue to them in an arbitrary public venue. I remember the first time I saw a statue of Robert E. Lee. I was very young. I asked my mom, "why do they have a statue to him, he fought to keep people slaves?"

                  And I'm not black. Imagine if you are a black citizen of this country or any country asking why in the world some countries would honor men that tried to keep people like you as slave. Or - as in this case - that actually engaged in the abusive, evil practice of trading men and women as slaves.
                  It never phased me a bit. If I saw one of those statues in person it would have no impact on me whatsoever, other than maybe admiring the artwork and detail, but void of any historical significance about it. The fact you're white and it phases you more than me is the creepiest and most bizarre thing to me.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                    So it's appropriate then to have statues of anybody who may or may not have been involved in public rioting and vandalism.

                    Got it.
                    Actually - I wasn't even responding to who theyput up in it's place, but rather just the fellow whose statue was taken down. But, think about it. Do we in the US have statues of revolutionary war hero's that engaged in public rioting and vandalism? (to those impacted by the financial loss, what else would they call the Boston Tea Party?)

                    I do not know anything about the man they erected the statue too, but, someone protesting the massive disparities that still exist as a consequence of the legacy of slavery and racism would seem a potentially appropriate choice to replace a statue to a man that actually bought and sold slaves as part of how he gained wealth and status.
                    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 07-15-2020, 05:15 PM.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by seanD View Post
                      It never phased me a bit. If I saw one of those statues in person it would have no impact on me whatsoever, other than maybe admiring the artwork and detail, but void of any historical significance about it. The fact you're white and it phases you more than me is the creepiest and most bizarre thing to me.
                      That is interesting - but apparently not representative of many African Americans given the current thrust from that community and many in the white community as well to have such statues removed. And it certainly bothered me - a white man. It seemed wholly inappropriate to have a monument to such a man. Slavery is wholly immoral, and to honor a person willing to fight to retain the right to own another man as his property is just wrong.
                      Last edited by oxmixmudd; 07-15-2020, 05:12 PM.
                      My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                      If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                      This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        That is interesting - but apparently not representative of many African Americans given the current thrust from that community and many in the white community as well to have such statues removed. And it certainly bothered me - a white man. It seemed wholly inappropriate to have a monument to such a man. Slavery is wholly immoral, and to honor a person willing to fight to retain the right to own another man as his property is just wrong.
                        There's no need to state the obvious here. Every American, with the exception of maybe a few fringe nuts, agrees that slavery is wholly immoral. And?

                        Maybe I'm just not hypersensitive to it because it happened hundreds of years ago? Maybe I'm not a brainwashed tool of social media that dictates what emotions I"m supposed to have or not have? Maybe I'm not really a racist inside and thus it's unsettling to me because it's subconsciously reflecting my own racist feelings about blacks inside? I don't know, but it's CREEPY to me nonetheless. I honestly would look at it and have no ill feelings about it whatsoever.
                        Last edited by seanD; 07-15-2020, 05:26 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by seanD View Post
                          There's no need to state the obvious here. Every American, with the exception of maybe a few fringe nuts, agrees that slavery is wholly immoral. And?
                          We erect statues to honor great men. So honoring a man that trafficked in slavery is saying that such actions are consistent with being a great man. The problem here is what trafficking in slavery meant in terms of cruelty and abuse. It's perhaps analogous to the difference between a drug user and a drug dealer.

                          Maybe I'm just not hypersensitive to it because it happened hundreds of years ago? Maybe I'm not a brainwashed tool of social media that dictates what emotions I"m supposed to have or not have? Maybe I'm not really a racist inside and thus it's unsettling to me because it's subconsciously reflecting my own racist feelings about blacks inside? I don't know, but it's CREEPY to me nonetheless. I honestly would look at it and have no ill feelings about it whatsoever.
                          I don't follow what you mean by "It's CREEPY to me nonetheless".
                          My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                          If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                          This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                            We erect statues to honor great men. So honoring a man that trafficked in slavery is saying that such actions are consistent with being a great man. The problem here is what trafficking in slavery meant in terms of cruelty and abuse. It's perhaps analogous to the difference between a drug user and a drug dealer.



                            I don't follow what you mean by "It's CREEPY to me nonetheless".
                            It's creepy that it affects you this way as a white man more than it does me. I look at it as just art. What it represents historically hundreds of years ago in a country that is now free means absolutely nothing to me. The hypersensitivity to it is what I can't fathom even to a black person, much MORE so to a white person.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by seanD View Post
                              It's creepy that it affects you this way as a white man more than it does me. I look at it as just art. What it represents historically hundreds of years ago in a country that is now free means absolutely nothing to me. The hypersensitivity to it is what I can't fathom even to a black person, much MORE so to a white person.
                              Here's some 'art' which dates to around the time that some of those statues went up and with the same intent behind it. Are you really ok with just saying "Well, it was art once so I guess we should just live with it"?

                              blackface.jpg

                              Comment

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