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Have Christians really faced the problems. . .

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  • Have Christians really faced the problems. . .

    The recent sentencing of Larry Nassar showed that multiple people, from a variety of institutions were notified of the molestation. But (almost) no one moved put a stop to it.

    I think it unlikely that any of those people approved of, or thought it acceptable.

    The Catholic Church scandals hit in full force in the late nineties, and the Church is still reeling from the fallout. But it is worth noting that the very things the Catholic Church did wrong are the things that multiple institutions are doing today, after the example of how not to handle the allegations.

    We have had the scandals hit sports, (Penn State Paterno/Sandusky scandal and Nassar), doctors (gynecologists and other doctors), teachers and education, Catholic and Protestant churches, etc. And one thing I notice is the number of times the reaction is the same, disbelief and sweeping aside the allegations made against someone who is trusted and respected; it seems to me to be a universal human reaction to evil. People "like me" are incapable of doing the things I cannot contemplate doing.

    Any thoughts?

  • #2
    Originally posted by simplicio View Post
    The recent sentencing of Larry Nassar showed that multiple people, from a variety of institutions were notified of the molestation. But (almost) no one moved put a stop to it.

    I think it unlikely that any of those people approved of, or thought it acceptable.

    The Catholic Church scandals hit in full force in the late nineties, and the Church is still reeling from the fallout. But it is worth noting that the very things the Catholic Church did wrong are the things that multiple institutions are doing today, after the example of how not to handle the allegations.

    We have had the scandals hit sports, (Penn State Paterno/Sandusky scandal and Nassar), doctors (gynecologists and other doctors), teachers and education, Catholic and Protestant churches, etc. And one thing I notice is the number of times the reaction is the same, disbelief and sweeping aside the allegations made against someone who is trusted and respected; it seems to me to be a universal human reaction to evil. People "like me" are incapable of doing the things I cannot contemplate doing.

    Any thoughts?
    Honestly, these types of things really get to me and make me question my faith. I know logically that we are all fallen creatures and that we all need a savior, but emotionally it can get rough.

    I have seen some of the most hateful things proclaimed in the name of Christianity. From my experience, this is the top cause for people that I know to reject the faith. Again, I know that this is not a logical argument but we are not just logical but emotional as well.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by simplicio View Post
      The recent sentencing of Larry Nassar showed that multiple people, from a variety of institutions were notified of the molestation. But (almost) no one moved put a stop to it.

      I think it unlikely that any of those people approved of, or thought it acceptable.

      The Catholic Church scandals hit in full force in the late nineties, and the Church is still reeling from the fallout. But it is worth noting that the very things the Catholic Church did wrong are the things that multiple institutions are doing today, after the example of how not to handle the allegations.

      We have had the scandals hit sports, (Penn State Paterno/Sandusky scandal and Nassar), doctors (gynecologists and other doctors), teachers and education, Catholic and Protestant churches, etc. And one thing I notice is the number of times the reaction is the same, disbelief and sweeping aside the allegations made against someone who is trusted and respected; it seems to me to be a universal human reaction to evil. People "like me" are incapable of doing the things I cannot contemplate doing.

      Any thoughts?
      Matthew 10.16–17a: ‘“Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves. Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. But beware of men, …”’ (NKJV; emphasis added).
      For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by element771 View Post
        Honestly, these types of things really get to me and make me question my faith. I know logically that we are all fallen creatures and that we all need a savior, but emotionally it can get rough.

        I have seen some of the most hateful things proclaimed in the name of Christianity. From my experience, this is the top cause for people that I know to reject the faith. Again, I know that this is not a logical argument but we are not just logical but emotional as well.
        I do hope this is not true. If you allow the actions of fallen men to impact your faith in Jesus Christ, you need to reevaluate that faith. It should be in the Almighty not in His failing followers.
        Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

        Comment


        • #5
          Organizations have a tendency to close ranks in the face of a threat. Many see a threat to a member as a threat to all. No reason a Christian organization should be any different.
          "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

          "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

          Comment


          • #6
            Christians should be different as they are to act with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which provides some sort of theoretic basis for the claims being made here. Of course the Holy Spirit is not going to override the free will of fallen man...
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              Christians should be different as they are to act with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which provides some sort of theoretic basis for the claims being made here. Of course the Holy Spirit is not going to override the free will of fallen man...
              well it turns out the guidance of the Holy Spirit doesn't come with molester detectors, you gotta pay extra for that dlc
              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

              Comment


              • #8
                My opinion is that unless there are two witnesses then you cannot condemn. So it makes sense to be skeptical.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                  My opinion is that unless there are two witnesses then you cannot condemn. So it makes sense to be skeptical.
                  Paedophiliac predators ordinarily engage in their vile behaviour in private (i.e. secretly). Victims could do without your incredulity. ‘And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but rather even expose them’ (Eph. 5.11, LEB).*

                  * Lexham English Bible (2012).
                  For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    Christians should be different as they are to act with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which provides some sort of theoretic basis for the claims being made here. Of course the Holy Spirit is not going to override the free will of fallen man...
                    I would not expect the Spirit of God to supersede wilful ignorance, apathy, and/or naivety.
                    For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                      My opinion is that unless there are two witnesses then you cannot condemn. So it makes sense to be skeptical.
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                        My opinion is that unless there are two witnesses then you cannot condemn. So it makes sense to be skeptical.
                        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                        Yep.
                        For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                          The recent sentencing of Larry Nassar showed that multiple people, from a variety of institutions were notified of the molestation. But (almost) no one moved put a stop to it.

                          I think it unlikely that any of those people approved of, or thought it acceptable.

                          The Catholic Church scandals hit in full force in the late nineties, and the Church is still reeling from the fallout. But it is worth noting that the very things the Catholic Church did wrong are the things that multiple institutions are doing today, after the example of how not to handle the allegations.

                          We have had the scandals hit sports, (Penn State Paterno/Sandusky scandal and Nassar), doctors (gynecologists and other doctors), teachers and education, Catholic and Protestant churches, etc. And one thing I notice is the number of times the reaction is the same, disbelief and sweeping aside the allegations made against someone who is trusted and respected; it seems to me to be a universal human reaction to evil. People "like me" are incapable of doing the things I cannot contemplate doing.

                          Any thoughts?
                          In practice, the alternative seems to be, to see paedophiles everywhere, to trash the reputations of the defenceless dead for no good reason, or to have something along the lines of a “satanic panic”. Combine this with a debased public taste, a salacious and none-too-truthful media, and a love of flinging filth at “the establishment”, and one has a very debased and nasty culture, that can hardly be called a fit judge of such accusations. These accusations feed the chaotic and destructive nihilism that seems to be so prominent nowadays.

                          Such accusations bring out some of the nastiest aspects of human nature - kicking “the establishment” (or persons associated with it) while it is down, feeds people’s self-righteousness: “O God, I give Thee thanks, that, unlike that scumbag over there, I am not a paedo”. It’s a way of avenging oneself on those who threaten one’s ego by being better or greater than oneself, I think.

                          I have become very sceptical of allegations of sexual misconduct - they are a very convenient weapon for destroying people’s character. And it is very convenient, that they so often “come to light” only long after the alleged incident or incidents. The gravity of the accusation fully justifies scepticism, IMO. And the burden of proof must never be shifted on to the accused, whose right to his or her good name must be allowed to remain intact until the accusation is proved beyond all reasonable doubt.

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