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Breaking news ... Walls do work
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Some fencing in strategic places can be useful. The dem politicians have generally voted for that.
One major problem is much of the border is flood plains and so you can't put up a solid wall because sudden flood water needs somewhere to go and you can't block it.
Another problem is all Trump's wall prototype designs failed their testing, with the concrete ones doing the worst which is why he changed his rhetoric to "steel slats", but even the steel ones could be cut through with a hacksaw from a local hardware shop.
You've also got many issues of private land ownership on and across the border where you'd be confiscating or dividing private property which is not usually something conservatives favor.
Some basic fencing in appropriate areas plus high tech surveillance and lots of border patrol officers seems the best solution. But that's what the Dems support. It's also what the only House Republican to have a district on the border supports - he's strongly against Trump's Wall idea for a number of reasons.
You've got to also remember that for a certain price people can buy fake identity documents and use them to enter the country "legally" through standard checkpoints. So once you spend enough money on border defences such that the price of an illegal crossing exceeds the price of fake documents you don't gain anything by additional spending on physical barriers. Given the most common method of illegal immigration is currently flying into the country on a valid visa and then overstaying a focus on physical border security seems rather irrelevant anyway. But if the Wall policy is just an emotional sop to people to make them feel like "something is being done" about immigration, rather than being a policy rationally designed to have an efficient and positive outcome then, well..."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Some Republicans are challenging Pelosi to tear down the border barriers that protect her own state if she really believes they're immoral.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostSome fencing in strategic places can be useful. The dem politicians have generally voted for that.
One major problem is much of the border is flood plains and so you can't put up a solid wall because sudden flood water needs somewhere to go and you can't block it.
Another problem is all Trump's wall prototype designs failed their testing, with the concrete ones doing the worst which is why he changed his rhetoric to "steel slats", but even the steel ones could be cut through with a hacksaw from a local hardware shop.
You've also got many issues of private land ownership on and across the border where you'd be confiscating or dividing private property which is not usually something conservatives favor.
Some basic fencing in appropriate areas plus high tech surveillance and lots of border patrol officers seems the best solution. But that's what the Dems support. It's also what the only House Republican to have a district on the border supports - he's strongly against Trump's Wall idea for a number of reasons.
You've got to also remember that for a certain price people can buy fake identity documents and use them to enter the country "legally" through standard checkpoints. So once you spend enough money on border defences such that the price of an illegal crossing exceeds the price of fake documents you don't gain anything by additional spending on physical barriers. Given the most common method of illegal immigration is currently flying into the country on a valid visa and then overstaying a focus on physical border security seems rather irrelevant anyway. But if the Wall policy is just an emotional sop to people to make them feel like "something is being done" about immigration, rather than being a policy rationally designed to have an efficient and positive outcome then, well..."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostOne of Trump's steel border wall prototypes after hacksaw-testing:
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostYou should probably listen to the only Republican House member to have a border district in Texas:The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostHe is certainly entitled to his opinion.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostIt's an opinion grounded in facts and one shared by Pelosi and the Dems.
It is an expensive fallacy to equate Donald's big border wall with border security.
Strategic fencing along some sections of the border in conjunction with a whole raft of smart technology is what's required. Plus a major upgrade of security at other points of entry.
Sheeeesh, I wish you libs would get your stories straight!The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post...And Pelosi and some of her ilk were FOR the wall before they were AGAINST the wall....
Democratic members of Congress have been critical of President-elect Donald Trump's anti-illegal immigration proposal of building a wall on the Mexico-United States border since he proposed it on the campaign trail in the fall of 2015, but several Democrats voted in support of similar legislation in 2006.
Rep. Peter King (R., N.Y.) proposed the Secure Fence Act of 2006 legislation to help secure the America's borders to help minimize drug trafficking and immigrants from illegally entering the United States by building 700 miles of physical barriers along the border.
While there were some Democrats who opposed the legislation due to cost restraints and concerns about the environmental impact of the fence, several prominent Democrats supported the legislation in the Senate, including Sen. Barbara Boxer (D., Calif.), former Sen. Barack Obama (D., Ill.), and former Sen. Hillary Clinton (D., N.Y.).
Boxer, who has been critical of Trump's wall proposal, spoke on the Senate floor in September 2006 where she defended building a fence on the border. " I don't oppose building a fence where you need to do it where the border is poorest. I just don't have a problem with that," Boxer said.
Obama also supported building a fence on the southern border of the United States. While Obama didn't believe the fence was a permanent solution, he did believe that it would provide better security along the border. Regarding the Secure Fence Act, Obama said in September 2006 that "the bill before us will certainly do some good. It will authorize some badly needed funding for better fences and better security along our borders and that should help stem some of the tide of illegal immigration in this country." In addition to this clip, Wikileaks leaked an internal memo last November from Obama's 2008 presidential campaign that revealed his support for fencing along the border, according to the Daily Caller.
"Additional fencing on the border is not a comprehensive solution, but it sometimes helps deter people from taking the risk of entering illegally," the memo states.
The memo also says that Obama "Believes fencing should be built where necessary and agreed to in coordination with local governments, Indian tribes and done in an environmentally sensitive manner."
Obama, according to the memo, "Supports additional personnel, infrastructure, and technology on the border and at our ports of entry." Additionally, Obama "Believes we need additional Customs and Border Protection agents with better technology and real-time intelligence."The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThe facts as you see them. That's also an opinion.And Pelosi and some of her ilk were FOR the wall before they were AGAINST the wall.Yet the Chief of the Border Patrol, along with many border agents interviewed, believe the Wall will help them.
I really don't have much disagreement here, Tass. But Pelosi said ZERO - not ONE DOLLAR - for the wall (or fencing or obstacle or whatever you want to call it).
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostIt is an opinion ...The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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